With studios churning out just about everything in unrated/extended/directors cuts to sell another edition of a film(recent annoucement of Remeber The Titans and Crimson Tide come to mind). Where the hell is the unrated uncut version of 8MM?
Sony released a fake unrated Wild Things release when the direct to video sequel came out. The reason I call it a 'fake' unrated release. Is because it is neither a real directors cut,nor a more explict version of the film. Just some filler added scenes tossed in to sell the film as 'unrated'.
Meanwhile for the direct to video release of 8MM 2(an in name only sequel from the sounds of it). They released that film in R and Unrated versions(which is said to be extremely explicit in its nudity and sexuality). Meanwhile they have a two pack available with 8MM and 8MM2 availabe in two versions. One for the R version of 8mm 2..and one for the unrated version of that film. But no unrated version of the original film at all!
You would think that they would have finally released an unrated version of the film to market with the sequel,but they havent' so far.
Anyway the first film was pretty cut up to avoid an NC-17. It while being a dark grim sleazey feeling film,also felt like quite a tease of never 'going there' regarding the content seeming like alot of stuff was missing.
Here is some of what I found after doing a web search...
The film was heavily cut before release to gain an 'R' rating. Joel Schumacher's audio commentary on the DVD points out the multitude of MPAA cuts throughout the film. The cuts include:
Sex throughout the movie. For example, background sexual activity was trimmed under the "no more than two buttock-thrusts rule"
A lot of a conversation between Phoenix and Cage was removed because a bank of TV monitors in the background were showing hardcore pornography footage
Sequences in the underground sex club were trimmed to remove shots of enema porn (which were in fact real)
Machine's cutting of Phoenix's throat was edited.
I would love to check out the film again to see if I like it any better than I did in theaters. And I would love an uncut version to be released,just to see what it was originally supposed to be like. So hopefully Sony wises up and releases it,but we shall see.
But with all films getting unrated releases,even when they are not needed. Why can't 8MM or most importantly,when will it receive one?
Dean Kousoulas
11-28-05, 02:06 AM
I would gladly double dip for an unrated version.
dvd_luver
11-28-05, 02:35 AM
I like the first film quite alot, so I would consider double-dipping for this if it were to ever materialize as an unrated cut.
Fincher Fan
11-28-05, 02:49 AM
I don't know about this. I can handle two buttock-thrusts on screen but a third might my destroy my fragile mind.
costanza187
11-28-05, 06:31 AM
I wouldn't mind seeing an unrated 8mm... Sometimes I feel like I am the only person in the world who actually found this movie interesting.
EdTheRipper
11-28-05, 07:04 AM
I'd consider double dipping on this for an unrated version. I enjoyed the original quite a bit.
Tenacious D
11-28-05, 10:05 AM
I'd like to see an unrated version of this. I've held off on buying the current version for a while now.
chsidwel
11-28-05, 10:38 AM
This was one of the very first movies I purchased when it was released. I certainly wouldn't mind doing a double dip on this one.
ShagMan
11-28-05, 11:09 AM
I'd be up for a double-dip on this one for sure.
grunter
11-28-05, 12:13 PM
If any of those multiple buttock-thrusts involved James Gandolfini, I'd probably buy a case.
Groucho
11-28-05, 12:23 PM
Yes, more enema porn is always welcome.
SINGLE104
11-28-05, 12:41 PM
I'm content with the current theatrical version. The explicit sex scenes that were edited from the final cut of the movie as described above, are sexual activites that I've viewed prior in other hard and softcore films, so these edited scenes will not be something that I haven't already seen before.
j_sutton
11-28-05, 01:14 PM
I agree. I think that any time actual scenes are cut for an NC-17, they should be restored on DVD, especially with the current "unrated" boom. It just irritates me knowing I'm watching something of a "family friendly" version of a movie. Even something like Dodgeball, which most people thought was a useless double-dip was important to me, because I watched the PAL version first, and was disappointed to learn that stuff was cut out for the PG-13 edition. I was happy to see it restored, even if it was just a few lines. What's really irritating is seeing all these Unrated versions with a few useless lines of dialogue put back in that were cut for good reason (and knowing that films like 8mm and Scream, etc. are still only available in their cut versions).
grunter
11-28-05, 01:21 PM
Not to get too off-topic: but what was cut from "Scream?"
Julie Walker
11-28-05, 02:14 PM
I agree. I think that any time actual scenes are cut for an NC-17, they should be restored on DVD, especially with the current "unrated" boom. It just irritates me knowing I'm watching something of a "family friendly" version of a movie. What's really irritating is seeing all these Unrated versions with a few useless lines of dialogue put back in that were cut for good reason (and knowing that films like 8mm and Scream, etc. are still only available in their cut versions).
This I agree with and why I hate the current 'unrated boom' where just about everything but the films actually seriously compromised for ratings reasons are released 'unrated'.
It is like the studio wants to continue to play it safe with safe unrated releases. While the real adult themed/content films remain cut on dvd most of the time. Only occasionally have some 'real' unrated releases been released by a major studio. We can only really count on studios like Lions Gate and other indies to release far more daring and worthy unrated versios.
As for Scream,I have the awesome uncut laserdisc and here are the brief 20 seconds worth of additions.
Steve's guts are shown pouring out of him as Casey looks on. In the released version, the very last few moments of this are shown.
Casey hanging from the tree was time compressed in the film release (it is at normal speed here).
When Tatum meets her death by garage door, her head is shown, very briefly being flattened.
After Kenny the cameraman's throat is cut, he stares at the blood on his hand after touching his neck, and then looks up at the killer.
Billy clearly loses control as he delivers his final cuts to Stuart.
After Billy and Stuart have finished stabbing each other, there is a shot of
Stu's hand dripping blood into a puddle, with Sydney's father looking on.
Also most importantly for me and why I prefer the uncut version to the R version on dvd. Is the soundtrack is more alive,louder,more intense,full of sinister eerie atmosphere throughout the film making it more unsettling. It was toned down slightly as well since the MPAA said the sound was 'too intense' for an R rating. It's no Suspira in terms of nerve wracking loud audio. But it is well mixed and full of atmosphere. That when I compared it to the R rated dvd(and I have seen the R version many times,including in theaters). It while seeming loud has a more tiny limp feeling to it,like the bass and everything was turned way down. It just didn't 'feel' right to myself and have the same impact as the unrated laserdisc audio.
ShallowHal
11-28-05, 04:55 PM
I'd buy it, this is a good movie. Maybe I'll watch it this weekend. :D
Julie Walker
11-28-05, 05:47 PM
I'm content with the current theatrical version. The explicit sex scenes that were edited from the final cut of the movie as described above, are sexual activites that I've viewed prior in other hard and softcore films, so these edited scenes will not be something that I haven't already seen before.
I have always hated this excuse to justify prefering cut/toned down versions of films. "Oh you can see that anywhere. Want extra nudity? Go surf online and look at some porn!". "Oh big deal that gory bit was cut out,you can see other films far worse than that uncut. So it's not like we've never seen that before".
Since it is all about the context of the story and how things are edited together. If a film is building up to one big sequence...only to have the MPAA come down hard on them and demand it be drastically altered. It will in turn destroy the impact of the sequence and or film itself.
A good example is the film Threesome,which builds up to the big threesome sequence between the main charecters. And yet the film was threatened with an NC-17 until the sequence was drastically cut down abruptly,that it's quite anti-climatic and over quickly.
Sure you can see threesome scenes in any unrated softcore film that comes on late night cable. But that is no reason to not want a film as originally intended by the director before MPAA interference.
And as for violence,again it's all about tone and or impact intended with the sequence. If a violent action blood bath built up to the demise of the main bad guy who is going to die in grisly graphic fashion he so deserves. Only to have a huge jump cut durring that sequence and cutting to the aftermath...or post-death scene. It will be quite jarring and disappointing. Since again all this build up for nothing,destroyed by some 'sensitive' ratings board.
In fact,one film I know of that suffered just this was Desperado. Where the big confrontation with the main villian is cut out almost fully(we only catch the briefest begining of the sequence..before abrupt fade to white and finale of the film).
And ironically,both films I used as examples are Columbia/Sony releases! :)
Anyway back to 8MM. Why it is important to see the cut footage,despite being easily available elsewhere on the web. Is that the film deals with seedy taboo subject matter,and is therefore supposed to be more daring and up front with the material than usual. So rather than merely hinting at the seedy goings on in this underworld. We would catch glimpses of it and be pushed into it just like the main charecter. And feel/react like he does,which may be of shock and disgust. Also it would show the world the charecters live in,where what may be considered disgusting and upsetting to us may seem 'normal' to others.
But by cutting all that out,it is as if a 'daring' film that tackles controversial subject matter is actually to shy and scared of being up front with the material. And instead pushes it more into the background where we may get mere hints of what is going on. While being left out to dry,the bleak depressing atmosphere wearing us down. All the while we get a tease of what the main charecter is up against.
I thought it was an interesting film,but it did feel heavily compromised when I saw it in theaters. And I have not seen it since,but would love to revisit it sometime.
Speaking of the theatrical experiance. It was memorable since my dad picked the film out since he loves Nic Cage. I was 18 at the time and my little brother was about 11 or 12 depending on when his birthday is and the time the film was released. I remember the film being very dark visually,that the brightest sequence in the film is when Nic lights a creep on fire. The theater lit up and I could see the few other people in the theater with me,as well as the shadow outlines of the seats..then it went pitch black again.
When we got out of the car at home after the film all depressed and feeling down. My dad said to me "That is the last time I EVER let you pick a film!". I laughed at him and said he was a hypocrite and that he was the one who picked the film,not me. So he tried to change the subject and said he likes Nic Cage alot and will see anything he is in. And while the film was depressing,it wasn't 'too bad' but he hates when a film leaves you feeling rotten and most likely,he'd never see it again.
Giles
11-28-05, 05:52 PM
Not to get too off-topic: but what was cut from "Scream?"
or John Woo's Hard Target - Universal is so gun-ho about releasing all their comedies unrated how about some good ol' fashioned violence.
Giles
11-28-05, 05:55 PM
as to 8MM I remember reading that Phoenix requested that his sex scenes in the film actually be removed - not from the folks over at the MPAA
chemosh6969
11-28-05, 06:18 PM
I'm content with the current theatrical version. The explicit sex scenes that were edited from the final cut of the movie as described above, are sexual activites that I've viewed prior in other hard and softcore films, so these edited scenes will not be something that I haven't already seen before.
I doubt you've heard the dialogue that was cut.
Julie Walker
11-28-05, 11:31 PM
I doubt you've heard the dialogue that was cut.
:D
And it could be important dialogue that helps flesh out the two charecters alittle more. Another reason why compromising cuts for ratings reasons can hamper a film. And Phoenix was one of the interesting charecters I wanted to know alittle more about.
or John Woo's Hard Target - Universal is so gun-ho about releasing all their comedies unrated how about some good ol' fashioned violence.
Yeah, that is just crying for an uncut release. And you can see all the violence cuts jump off the screen when viewing it!
It doesn't even have to be a 'special edition' release,it could be bare bones. As long as it's uncut,that is all that really matters.
SINGLE104
11-29-05, 02:17 AM
I doubt you've heard the dialogue that was cut.
This would be extremely difficult to decipher, unless you have read the original screenplay in it's entirely, and know every character's dialogue verbatim, that's is spoken in the movie for comparison.
SINGLE104
11-29-05, 02:34 AM
I have always hated this excuse to justify prefering cut/toned down versions of films. "Oh you can see that anywhere. Want extra nudity? Go surf online and look at some porn!". "Oh big deal that gory bit was cut out,you can see other films far worse than that uncut. So it's not like we've never seen that before".
Since it is all about the context of the story and how things are edited together. If a film is building up to one big sequence...only to have the MPAA come down hard on them and demand it be drastically altered. It will in turn destroy the impact of the sequence and or film itself.
If those edited scenes were reinserted into the movie, it may not enhance, or give the story no eminent detail, just comparative graphic violence, and explicit simulated sex.... Actually, I don't have to see it because I lived it.
mndtrp
11-29-05, 02:34 AM
I'd like to see an unrated version of the movie. Any flick that uses Aphex Twin's "Come to Daddy" gets a thumbs up from me.
j_sutton
11-29-05, 02:50 AM
If those edited scenes were reinserted into the movie, it may not enhance, or give the story no eminent detail, just comparative graphic violence, and explicit simulated sex.... Actually, I don't have to see it because I lived it.
...you seem to have a hard time with the concept of film as art. Tell you what, stop watching every movie that has anything that has ever been in anything else before (life included). Then you'll save yourself a lot of time seeing things you've already seen (or heard of, or experienced).
awmurray
11-29-05, 10:04 AM
If those edited scenes were reinserted into the movie, it may not enhance, or give the story no eminent detail, just comparative graphic violence, and explicit simulated sex.... Actually, I don't have to see it because I lived it.
You lived it!?! Wow!
:jawdrop:
Which underground sex club did you get the enema in? :whofart:
Tenacious D
11-29-05, 10:56 AM
You lived it!?! Wow!
:jawdrop:
Which underground sex club did you get the enema in? :whofart:
LMAO! rotfl :hump:
SINGLE104
11-29-05, 10:57 AM
...you seem to have a hard time with the concept of film as art. Tell you what, stop watching every movie that has anything that has ever been in anything else before (life included). Then you'll save yourself a lot of time seeing things you've already seen (or heard of, or experienced).
Your quote doesn't make any sense, but I tell you what! why don't you get the intitiative to create, and produce your own movies to your specific enthrallment, to eliminate querulous
statements, and situations pertaining to other director's films, which you have no influential control over. Your impudent quotation concerning my personal life, there is only one supreme being who has the power to officially judge me, at Judgment Day, is my almighty, sovereign God. Especially not you.
So if you have any comparative, impertinent remarks, I suggest that you personally email me to continue this discussion. And if not... THEN ZIP IT!
Giles
11-29-05, 11:00 AM
Sequences in the underground sex club were trimmed to remove shots of enema porn (which were in fact real)
sounds like the notorious back room scenes from "Cruising" ;)
A lot of a conversation between Phoenix and Cage was removed because a bank of TV monitors in the background were showing hardcore pornography footage
There was a similiar scene in Paul Schrader's 'Auto Focus' that was also censored due to hardcore footage.
SINGLE104
11-29-05, 11:19 AM
You lived it!?! Wow!
Which underground sex club did you get the enema in? :whofart: I was expecting this! No I was not involve in any official sex club. I use to frequent, and patronize sexual oriented establishments almost daily. The film has partial similarity to my past life, not all. But I've been delivered from this lifestyle through the grace of God. Even though, the movie is fictitious, actually there are people in this world who are currently living, or has previously lived that sordid lifestyle.
Giles
11-29-05, 11:32 AM
I was expecting this! No I was not involve in any official sex club. I use to frequent, and patronize sexual oriented establishments almost daily. The film has partial similarity to my past life, not all. But I've been delivered from this lifestyle through the grace of God. Even though, the movie is fictitious, actually there are people in this world who are currently living, or has previously lived that sordid lifestyle.
glad God sorted you out... so... why are you watching this smut out anyway?
grunter
11-29-05, 11:47 AM
sounds like the notorious back room scenes from "Cruising" ;)
Meh.
Those backroom/bar scenes in "Cruising" are like a Disneyfied version of the real thing.
awmurray
11-29-05, 12:17 PM
I was expecting this! No I was not involve in any official sex club. I use to frequent, and patronize sexual oriented establishments almost daily. The film has partial similarity to my past life, not all. But I've been delivered from this lifestyle through the grace of God. Even though, the movie is fictitious, actually there are people in this world who are currently living, or has previously lived that sordid lifestyle.
This is why I liked 8MM. It was one of a very few movies that really stuck with me after watching it. It seems to have that affect on some people. It did a great job of showing the seedy porno underworld-- makes you feel unclean after watching it. I assume that's what the director was going for and he succeeded. That's why I enjoyed it-- it was uncomfortable to watch at times, but I still liked it. And that's why I think an unrated version would benefit this movie-- because the cut scenes would set the atmosphere even more. Especially judging from the cut scenes that Julie listed.
Oh yea, and I tend to like movies with Nicolas Cage in them.
EDIT: Forgot to add that I know there are people who are currently living or have lived this sordid lifestyle... that makes the movie that much more unsettling. I really liked this movie. Yet I feel like one poster who said that he often feels like he's the only one who liked this movie...
SINGLE104
11-29-05, 01:52 PM
My perspective that 8 MM would have a much greater impact, with the edited scenes included on the viewing audience, if it was filmed as a full length documentary, rather than a movie.
cultshock
11-29-05, 02:03 PM
I put 8MM in the same catagory as HARDCORE. They are entertaining films, but have a naive, rather laughable, view of the "underground" porn industry (which of course, we all know is closely related to all those snuff films that are out there -rolleyes- )
Still, both films are kind of a guilty pleasure for me, and I wouldn't mind seeing a stronger cut of 8MM.
SINGLE104
11-29-05, 02:45 PM
glad God sorted you out... so... why are you watching this smut out anyway?
Thank you, and a very good question indeed! The reason why I watched this genre of a movie is because it appears as semi-autobiographical to me, pertaining to the debauchery of various sexual illicit activities that I've had indulge, and participated in at very secluded and solitary places.
j_sutton
11-29-05, 03:12 PM
Your quote doesn't make any sense, but I tell you what! why don't you get the intitiative to create, and produce your own movies to your specific enthrallment, to eliminate querulous
statements, and situations pertaining to other director's films, which you have no influential control over. Your impudent quotation concerning my personal life, there is only one supreme being who has the power to officially judge me, at Judgment Day, is my almighty, sovereign God. Especially not you.
So if you have any comparative, impertinent remarks, I suggest that you personally email me to continue this discussion. And if not... THEN ZIP IT!
... -screwy- I guess we all better stop talking here, since we can't influence those directors and all.
On topic, watched 8mm 2 last night. Wow. Terrible friggin' movie, but it definitely earned its "Unrated" status. It even contained a scene featuring Sandy (from ClubSandy.com) "orally pleasuring" another girl. And not the simulated kind. Surprising from a movie that is sold at Walmart.
lcnickell
11-29-05, 10:25 PM
I put 8MM in the same catagory as HARDCORE. They are entertaining films, but have a naive, rather laughable, view of the "underground" porn industry (which of course, we all know is closely related to all those snuff films that are out there )
i didn't care much for 8mm, but are you telling me you have first hand knowledge of 70's underground porn industry, in particular TJ Films? I think you'd rethink what you said.
There is a great book on TJ hardcore films from the 70's entitled " LOST SOULS" which is hard to find, and goes for $300+ on ebay when it does appear. Hardcore predates the book, but Schrader was dead on with a lot of scenes and stories from the book.
there's pics and stills from films, and accounts from people involved, and like in hardcore, there was quite a few ucla, and usc film school grads involved in the making, and some young film students give their accounts, and how they were even held hostage in the movement.
Buy: