Superhero Graphic Novels...where to start?

[scott1598]

When I was a kid, I loved X-Men (Wolverine especially), but never seriously delved into the whole world and that was that. Even though I love Superman and like Batman, I seem to sway more towards the Marvel universe, rather than DC.

I just read a snippet on Watchmen (publisher?) and Identity Crisis (DC) in "Entertainment Weekly" and they seem fascinating. I checked them out briefly at Barnes and Noble. I didn't give either a hard look, just casual.

I know Watchmen are unknown superheroes (at least to me) and Identity Crisis is mostly the main and secondary DC players which seems interesting and I did gravitate slightly more to it (reading the first few pages anyway).

So with all them out there, including the above, where should I start or end if I just want to pick one up for a good, interesting read? Which of the above is better if you can even compare?

Thanks for any and all help...

[Josh-da-man]

Watchmen by a mile.

[lukewarmwater]

if you had to pick one then watchmen

if you had to pick two then watchmen and dark knight returns

[Cathepsin]

Out of what you mentioned, Watchmen.

If you're interested in the X-Men, and don't mind black and white reprints of material that was originally printed in color, consider the first couple of Essential X-Men books. Marvel's also released several volumes of Essential Wolverine.

[scott1598]

I didn't just want a pick from those two, kinda in general...best of what's out there that is perhaps just one big edition...

[scott1598]

if you had to pick one then watchmen

if you had to pick two then watchmen and dark knight returns
i picked both of these up today. i think i will start with Dark Knight Returns. I loved "Sin City" the movie, so I think Frank Miller gets first dibs.

Here goes my first foray into the graphic novel milieu. thanks for the suggestions.

i think next will have to be something X-Men...any recommendations on novel similar to the ones above?

[JasonF]

Your best bet for X-Men is to look for a collection called "The Dark Phoenix Saga." It's not quite as grown-up as either Watchmen or Dark Knight Returns, but it's definitely one of the high points of superhero comics.

[lukewarmwater]

Phenoix saga is good if you can ignore the aliens and space ship shit. Otherwise for xmen pick up days of future past.

[Liquid Death]

God Loves, Man Kills is a great X-Men GN, part of which the story from X-Men 2 was derived from.

[bdshort]

I just finished reading Watchmen last night. Absolutely superb! Go get it now, if you haven't already :thumbsup: I read Batman Year One today at work (very slow day!), which was also excellent, if brief. Reading Dark Night Returns now, which I'm liking a LOT so far, though I'm not that far into it (Batman has just made his return).

I orderd The Long Halloween and V for Vendetta from Amazon today as well... if you can't tell, I'm also just getting into the graphic novel thing (the comic that came with Batman Begins piqued my interest)

[Jackskeleton]

Personally, I advise people to read other graphic novels first before ever touching Watchmen.

Why? Because Watchmen was about taking apart the superhero myth. You really have to know it before you start to enjoy it to its fullest. To really get how powerful and how much of an impact that book made.

[The Bus]

Watchmen is good, but as Jackskeleton mentioned, it's not a great beginning point.

I think the Batman character has some of the best graphic novels out there. I'd recommend The Dark Knight Returns, The Long Halloween, The Killing Joke, Arkham Asylum, and World's Finest (Batman and Superman).

[scott1598]

Personally, I advise people to read other graphic novels first before ever touching Watchmen.

Why? Because Watchmen was about taking apart the superhero myth. You really have to know it before you start to enjoy it to its fullest. To really get how powerful and how much of an impact that book made.
that is why i am starting with DKR. it seems more conduscive to a jumping off point. after that, i will get into Watchmen. i don't know much either way of the mythology so i don't think i will be debunking too much of the little knowledge i have.

[JasonF]

Watchmen is good, but as Jackskeleton mentioned, it's not a great beginning point.

I think the Batman character has some of the best graphic novels out there. I'd recommend The Dark Knight Returns, The Long Halloween, The Killing Joke, Arkham Asylum, and World's Finest (Batman and Superman).

You're saying Watchmen isn't good for new readers, but you're recommending Arkham Assylum?

Personally, I think Watchmen is perfectly accessible to a reader new to superhero comics, but I can see why some would feel otherwise.

Which book do you mean by "World's Finest?" Is that the one by Steve Rude involving the orphanage halfway between Metropolis and Gotham?

[DaveCole]

I recommend Rick Veitch's Bratpack and Maximortal. Not for everyone but they are fun reads.

For a lighter, fun, superhero book I recommend Aaron Williams PS238. The story of superhero children in grade school.

[lukewarmwater]

I also think year one is really great. Not the dense read and better art then DKR. Shorter too. And batman in year one is more of a hero then the psycho he is in dkr.

[ytrez]

Watchmen is good. I'd also recommend Authority Vol. 1 & 2 as well as Planetary.

For more mainstream superheroes, try Daredevil Visionaries - Frank Miller Vols 1 - 3 and Ultimate Spider-Man.

While not quite "superhero" you should also give V for Vendetta a spin.

And my personal favorite "graphic novel", which has no superheroes whatsoever, Blankets.

[Flynn]

Batman Year One
Batman Hush
Batman The Long Halloween
Batman Dark Victory
Batman Knigtfall

To Name a few good Batman books...

[reverie]

I'll also toss in my support for "Batman: The Long Halloween". Wonderful book all around! The sequal, "Dark Victory", was also enjoyable, but the first beats it easy.

If you ever want to venture outside of superheroes, I'd highly recommend the trades for "Preacher", a DC/Vertigo title. Pick up the first and see what you think!

[brainee]

A year ago I was kind of like you. I loved superheroes as a kid (Superman, Batman, Spiderman being my favorites). In the early-mid 90s "Sandman" got me into adult-oriented comics, but I stayed away from the superhero stuff (a lot of Vertigo and independents). But I got a hankering for some superhero stuff (maybe enjoyment of the Justice League tv show) and tried some out.

People have already covered Batman well here -- "Dark Knight Returns", "Year One", "Long Halloween", "Dark Victory" (among others) are great ones to check out.

Superman -- no one's given you suggestions for him yet. There's the 3 volume mega-event where Superman got killed (don't worry, that's not really a spoiler since the title of one book gives it away -- and it's not like he stays dead): "Death of Superman", "World Without a Superman", "Return of Superman". Alan Moore wrote 2 of my favorite Superman stories: "What Ever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" and "For the Man Who Has Everything". I don't think they're in print now -- though FTMWHE is included in "The Greatest Superman Stories Ever Told" which Amazon booksellers list for $5 used. I'm not up on more recent solo Superman stuff.

Justice League -- I liked some of the new Justice League. You've got all the DC heavy hitters (well, sometimes). I liked Grant Morrison's run ("Rock of Ages" being my favorite -- an epic mind-bending story with an incredibly scary Darkseid, though I liked them all). Mark Waid was also very good on JLA (my favorite story being "Divided We Fall", where Ra's al Ghul uses Batman's own plans for taking out the Justice League). Things started going downhill when Joe Kelly took over, and the bottom dropped out when Chuck Austen started writing. JLA gets a little confusing when the writers are forced to incorporate complicated continuity (like Superman turning into an energy being, Wonder Woman dying/replaced by mother/turning into god, Aquaman and Green Lantern dying/replaced/resurrected, and similar gobbledygook) but I still enjoyed things.

"Kingdom Come" is a strong, beautifully drawn mega-sized DC superhero story. "Watchman", as others have commented, is a masterpiece of superhero literature, and is a must-read. Alan Moore's "Miracleman" is one of my favorite superhero stories. It was one of the first superhero deconstructions (Moore did "Watchman" several years later) and was really groundbreaking as far as adult-aimed comics were concerned. Funny, touching, exciting, sad, profound, terrifying -- "Miracleman" covers all bases. Unfortunately, I think the last volume is OOP and going for crazy money now. "Identity Crisis" may actually work better for a more casual fan, since some events and characterizations infuriated fans. Wait for the inevitable TPB.

I'm not much of a Marvel guy. One Marvel book I have been reading is "Ultimate Spiderman", which I've been enjoying. The Ultimate series of titles reboots the characters, so there's no complicated 40 years of backstory to deal with. USM has a very cinematic style and pacing.

[JasonF]

Alan Moore wrote 2 of my favorite Superman stories: "What Ever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" and "For the Man Who Has Everything". I don't think they're in print now -- though FTMWHE is included in "The Greatest Superman Stories Ever Told" which Amazon booksellers list for $5 used. I'm not up on more recent solo Superman stuff.

There's a collection of all of Moore's DC Universe stories (not counting his run on Swamp Thing) coming soon. It'll be well worth picking up. The contents:

SUPERMAN ANNUAL #11: "For the Man Who Has Everything"
Art and cover: Dave Gibbons
DETECTIVE COMICS #549: "Night Olympics" Part One
Art: Klaus Janson
DETECTIVE COMICS #550: "Night Olympics" Part Two
Art: Klaus Janson
GREEN LANTERN #188: "Mogo Doesn't Socializse"
Art: Dave Gibbons
VIGILANTE #17: "Father's Day" Part One
Cover: Paris Cullins & Rick Magyar
Art: Jim Baikie
VIGILANTE #18: "Father's Day" Part Two
Art and cover: Jim Baikie
THE OMEGA MEN #26: "Brief Lives"
Art: Kevin O'Neill
THE OMEGA MEN #27: "A Man's World"
Art: Paris Cullins & Rick Magyar
DC COMICS PRESENTS #85: "The Jungle Line"
Art: Rick Veitch & Al Williamson
Cover: Rick Veitch
TALES OF THE GREEN LANTERN CORPS ANNUAL #2: "Tygers"
Artist: Kevin O'Neill
SUPERMAN #423: "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow" Part One
Art: Curt Swan & George Pérez
Cover: Curt Swan & Murphy Anderson
ACTION COMICS #583: "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow" Part Two
Art: Curt Swan & Kurt Schaffenberger
Cover: Curt Swan & Murphy Anderson
SECRET ORIGINS #10: "Footsteps"
Art: Joe Orlando
Cover: Jim Aparo
TALES OF THE GREEN LANTERN CORPS ANNUAL #3: "In Blackest Night"
Art: Bill Willingham & Terry Austin
BATMAN ANNUAL #11: "Mortal Clay"
Art: George Freeman
Cover: John Byrne
BATMAN: THE KILLING JOKE
Art: Brian Bolland

There's a version of this TPB out now, but it doesn't include Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow or Killing Joke, but I would recommend waiting until January when this new TPB comes out because those two stories are worth having.

[Chew]

I have a lot of those Moore stories already and I'm even ordering that collection. :up:

$9.99 at DCBS for those who order there.

[brainee]

There's a collection of all of Moore's DC Universe stories (not counting his run on Swamp Thing) coming soon. It'll be well worth picking up.

Holy superhero collections, Batman! That new TPB will be tempting for me too (even though I have a number of the stories). With the new version, I'd say this is a must-buy (if for the 2 classic Superman stories and "Killing Joke", which has been out of print).

[Patman]

Have they reprinted the Jim Shooter penned Legion of Super-Heroes stories in those hardcover collections?

[JasonF]

Have they reprinted the Jim Shooter penned Legion of Super-Heroes stories in those hardcover collections?

All of the stuff he did as a teenager in Adventure and Action Comics is reprinted in the Archives (Vol. 6-9, I think). Volume 12 reprints the stories he did for Legion when he got back into comics, but I'm not entirely certain if it includes all of his second run or just the begining of it.

[RogerSC]

Spiderman Torment by Todd McFarlane.

[hiccup]

Seems like most have given you excellent recommendations and basically anything I would say, but it couldn't hurt to throw my hat into the ring.

Watchmen is my absolute favorite comics/GN and is a must for anyone (not just for those interested in comics). Great social commentary even though we are in the post cold-war era, the impact in its pages still permeates to this day. And truly Watchmen, though it disassembles what has come to be known in Superhero lore, is an excellent starting point for anyone interested in GN or just comics in general. That's how I got a bunch of my friends interested.

Really, just go out and do yourself a favor and read anything Alan Moore has penned. Anything the man touches is literary gold. From his early days at Swamp Thing to V for Vendetta to League to Tom Strong. All excellent, though his work in Tom Strong (mostly the stuff in the last two TPB/volumes of Tom Strong (3 and 4)) seems to show it stagnating a bit.

Batman: Dark Knight Returns is very good as well. Also, Batman: Year One is another fave of mine and this one Scarecrow (can't think of the name at the moment) is also good.

Sin City is simply a must read, but if you've recently seen the movie that it may bore you since it will feel like deja vu. Really, the movie is the perfect telling of the GN, especially since every scene seems to be taken right out of the GNs.

For Xmen, Days of Future Past is a must read. Phoenix Saga is also very good. God Loves, Man Kills was enjoyable and the Age of Apocalypse GN are excellent reads.

[brianluvdvd]

Looking thru Ebay & Amazon lately, I saw that Marvel has several TPBs called Visionaries and/or Legends that collect rus from John Byrne, Peter David, McFarlane, Miller and others.

I am really interested in maybe picking some of these up one by one & was curious on the quality of them. I haven't noticed them in any bookstore so I was just curious on opinions.

I was also curious if there is a complete list of them somewhere. Going thru Amazon's site, there could be several that are easy to miss and I could not find a checklist on Marvel's site.

[nny]

http://tplist.millarworld.net/index.html

That's an excellent site, but even though it does have a Visionaries listing, it's not comprehensive. You can find pretty much anything by looking under title or creator though.

[davidh777]

Looking thru Ebay & Amazon lately, I saw that Marvel has several TPBs called Visionaries and/or Legends that collect rus from John Byrne, Peter David, McFarlane, Miller and others.

I am really interested in maybe picking some of these up one by one & was curious on the quality of them. I haven't noticed them in any bookstore so I was just curious on opinions.

I was also curious if there is a complete list of them somewhere. Going thru Amazon's site, there could be several that are easy to miss and I could not find a checklist on Marvel's site.

This series confused me, but I think the pattern is that the first volume of a creator/character is called Visionaries, and the second (and third etc.) is called Legends. So I picked up the McFarlane Spider-Man Visionaries and followed it up with Legends 2. My first exposure to McFarlane's Spidey and it liked it quite a bit. I need to pick up #3.

On the other hand, I also have something on my shelf called Spider-Man Legends 4 (Spider-Man/Wolverine) that is not McFarlane. Not sure how this fits in.

[Baron Of Hell]

The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen vol 1

[lucasorion]

is there a graphic novel where the hero is similar to the character in the movie "Unbreakable"?

[brianluvdvd]

http://tplist.millarworld.net/index.html

That's an excellent site, but even though it does have a Visionaries listing, it's not comprehensive. You can find pretty much anything by looking under title or creator though.

Wow, awesome site! Thanks.

I was about to ask if DC had anything like Marvel's Visionaries or Legends series (comics from the last 20 to 30 years) but I should be able to find it there. If anyone has a quick answer, that would be great.

[exharrison]

Wow, awesome site! Thanks.

I was about to ask if DC had anything like Marvel's Visionaries or Legends series (comics from the last 20 to 30 years) but I should be able to find it there. If anyone has a quick answer, that would be great.
They have their archives series.

[brianluvdvd]

They have their archives series.

But they don't have any 80's reprints, do they? I Thought that was mainly 30's thru 50's stuff.

[JasonF]

DC's selection of 80s reprints is relatively meager. There's lots of Batman stuff from the mid-to-late 80s, and you can get your hands on genre-breaking stuff like Watchmen, but in terms of reprint of whole runs of classic stuff, that's harder to come by. Off the top of my head, they've reprinted a couple of New Teen Titans storyline (Judas Contract and Trigon), and one LSH storyline (Great Darkness), and that's pretty much it. DC had a lot of series in the 80s that were just good clean superhero fun (Levitz's LSH, Wolfman's NTT, Conway's Firestorm, Bates's Captain Atom, Ostrander's Suicide Squad, Thomas's All-Star Squadron, and I could go on but I won't). These should be in print the way Byrne's FF and Miller's Daredevil are in print.

By the way, if you're a fan of 80s Marvel, you should be aware that Marvel is bringing the first volume of Michilinie and Layton's Iron Man back into print. This is really, really, really good stuff and you should pick it up when it comes out (April 12).

[bloopbleep]

The Sandman by Neil Gaiman , read in order. One of the greatest runs ever in comics!

[JasonF]

This series confused me, but I think the pattern is that the first volume of a creator/character is called Visionaries, and the second (and third etc.) is called Legends. So I picked up the McFarlane Spider-Man Visionaries and followed it up with Legends 2. My first exposure to McFarlane's Spidey and it liked it quite a bit. I need to pick up #3.

On the other hand, I also have something on my shelf called Spider-Man Legends 4 (Spider-Man/Wolverine) that is not McFarlane. Not sure how this fits in.

Visionaries and Legends are two different series. "Visionaries" reprint runs by seminal creators, in order. Legends reprint seminal storylines. Obviously, there's some overlap, and for whatever reason, Marvel decided to dump a large part of the McFarlane Spider-Man run into its Legends line. Why? Beats me. At the same time, the Daredevil Born Again story is part of the Daredevil Visionaries: Frank Miller line. Why? Again, I don't know.

Speaking of Daredevil, I recommend picking up the Daredevil Legends TPB that reprints Ann Nocenti's and John Romita Jr.'s Typhoid Mary story. And in April, there's an Iron Man TPB coming out called "Demon in a Bottle" that reprints a great story by David Michelinie and Bob Layton. Michelinie wrote all those McFarlane Spider-Man issues, so if you like those, you should check out the new Iron Man TPB. Michelinie and Layton had a long run on the title, so I'm hoping this is the first of many TPBs reprinting their stuff.

Edit: I just realized I pimped the Iron Man TPB in my last post! I remember talking about it yesterday, but I thought it was on another board. What can I say -- I really like Michelinie/Layton Iron Man, and I'm hoping sales are high so Marvel does more.

[Eric F]

Looking thru Ebay & Amazon lately, I saw that Marvel has several TPBs called Visionaries and/or Legends that collect rus from John Byrne, Peter David, McFarlane, Miller and others.

I am really interested in maybe picking some of these up one by one & was curious on the quality of them. I haven't noticed them in any bookstore so I was just curious on opinions.

I was also curious if there is a complete list of them somewhere. Going thru Amazon's site, there could be several that are easy to miss and I could not find a checklist on Marvel's site.
Pick up the Visionaries: Daredevil Frank Miller ones. They are truly great reading.

[aukevin]

Batman graphic novels I would suggest: "Year One" and "Long Halloween". Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns is a classic, but I'm not a big fan of his.

Superman graphic novels: "Birthright" is a recent retelling of Superman's origins and is very cool. "Superman for All Seasons" is a story of Clark leaving Smallville to become Superman and encountering Luthor for the first time, it's one of my favorites. You also can't go wrong with the original 1985 relaunch "Man of Steel" or the "Death of Superman" followed by "Funeral for a Friend" and "Return of Superman."

I also recommend the original Gen 13 miniseries from the mid-90s.

[Draven]

I'd chime in with one of my favorite series when I was growing up, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. I can't remember the GNs I own by title, but the collections of the original comic series are excellent. Extremely cool, very violent, and excellent reads.

[benedict]

A couple of earlier threads that might be worth checking through:<ul><li><A HREF="http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread.php?t=222790" target="_Blank">Graphic Novel recommendations?</a><li><A HREF="http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread.php?t=417057" target="_Blank">Graphic Novel recommendations? [Part Two]</a></li></ul>I would imagine that they'd include both superhero and non-superhero titles.

[FrancisRizzo3]

If you like conspiracy theories, The Invisibles is a fantastic read. There are six volumes. Here's #1:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1563892677/qid=1148310190/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/102-9134576-1348130?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

[fujishig]

I'd chime in with one of my favorite series when I was growing up, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. I can't remember the GNs I own by title, but the collections of the original comic series are excellent. Extremely cool, very violent, and excellent reads.

I loved my TMNT graphic novels, though they're probably somewhere in my parent's basement at this point. I've always wondered why they haven't reprinted them, in this era of TPBs...