In general I'm very frustrated with what the Heisman Trophy has become lately. Just rename the award "Best Player from the Best Team" because that is all it has become. Just because USC has dominated college football the last few years doesn't mean we should just keep handing them Heismans. It's an individual award so team shouldn't figure into it. I hate those college football wrap up shows that have their Heisman watches and they eliminate people from consideration based on team losses?? As for this year basically Heisman hype has been like 90% Leinart and Bush, 9% Young and 1% everyone else. This is just ridiculous. First off its not like Texas and Vince Young, or UCLA if you want to talk about Maurice Drew for Heisman, or any other 'dark horse' are bottom feeding NCAA football with 2-6 records. Texas is undefeated, no.2, no.1 in the BCS, but it seems like ever since the Notre Dame game everyone has been anamored with USC even more so then before. Second of all, no single player dominates college football like Vince Young. Take USC...one game its White, one game its Leinart, another game they win cause of Bush. Every game this year Texas is winning because of Young. Last but not least, in all reality Vince Young is Matt Leinart combined with Reggie Bush...why just have a QB or why just have a playmaker when you can have both. Did you see the 240 passing 270 rushing last game? I just don't understand where the Heisman hype has gone. If you go by stats he should have more hype. If you go by whats been determining Heisman candidates lately, the team, hey he should win, they are number 1 in the BCS. I'm 100% confident he'll be a finalist, but damn it he should win it!!
VINCE YOUNG 4 HEISMAN
BigDave
10-31-05, 03:33 PM
He'll make a great WR in the NFL. ;)
BabiG
10-31-05, 03:48 PM
The Heisman has never been about who is the best player. That's why Charlie Ward can win it one year, and be in the NBA in the next. It's become it's own set of strange qualifications that doesn't necessarily coorelate to anything else. Actually Heisman Pundit (http://heismanpundit.com/?sectionid=1) has a pretty good post about what you need to get the Heisman. I think Vince is going to be bitten by No. 7 (read the explanations in the other post (http://heismanpundit.com/?sectionid=3)), because the USC guys get some of the Notre Dame run-off.
Jericho
10-31-05, 03:56 PM
I'd disagree. The Heisman <b>HAS</b> been about who is the best player. What its not is a who's the best NFL prospect award. Now determining how good a player is, and how much he is just a product of his supporting cast/system is not easy. But as the original post has pointed out, its devolved from a best player award, into an award on who's the QB/RB on a top 5 team. Kinda sad actually since football is such a team sport. I too am disappointed the way the award has changed. I mean Reggie Bush is a fantastic player, a bona fide threat to be the #1 pick in the draft, but I can't say he's a better player than Vince Young right now. Bush simply doesn't get enough touches, nor is he a QB.
Maxwell Smart
10-31-05, 03:56 PM
I completely agree with you. But unless USC loses, Bush will get it. It's all about flash.
ESPN goes nuts when bush accouts for 150yds of offense.
Y2K Falcon
10-31-05, 03:58 PM
Why would they give it to players that only play half a game? :hscratch:
Jeremy517
10-31-05, 04:03 PM
*ahem*
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/heisman/index
Maxwell Smart
10-31-05, 04:14 PM
That will change. It's going to be hard for Vince to pile up stats when he's yanked in the 3rd Quarter since Texas has nothing but crap teams left to play.
lemieux66c
10-31-05, 04:25 PM
I think he should get more attention as well...although I still would give it to Bush, I think Young and Quinn deserve it much more than Leinart. Leinart has had his best games against marginal competition, while Bush, Young and Quinn pretty much deliver every single game.
Jeremy517
10-31-05, 04:27 PM
More attention than currently being voted #1 by ESPN's experts?
Jeremy517
10-31-05, 04:31 PM
And CBS's experts...
http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/heisman
sn9ke_eyes
10-31-05, 04:54 PM
So Vince Young should get the Heisman because his teammates suck ? Am I interpreting your arguement correctly ?
BabiG
10-31-05, 05:09 PM
The Heisman HAS been about who is the best player ... But as the original post has pointed out, its devolved from a best player award, into an award on who's the QB/RB on a top 5 team.
I'd argue that it's almost always been that way. The link I posted has a good summary of the perfect storm of conditions that has to happen. Two years ago (and maybe a year ago as well), the underclassmen running back who most people considered better lost to their own upperclassmen QB. Steve McNair could have thrown for 12,000 yards and run for 5,000 more and he still wouldn't have won the heisman because he played for Alcorn State. Eric Crouch wasn't the absolute best player in his class, no matter what criteria you use (raw ability, stats, NFL Propects, etc.), but he fulfilled the right conditions, was on the right team, and performed well in big games.
IMRICKJAMES
10-31-05, 05:37 PM
I completely agree with you. But unless USC loses, Bush will get it. It's all about flash.
ESPN goes nuts when bush accouts for 150yds of offense.
I love that. Sportscenter loves Reggie Bush and USC way too much. It would be hilarious to what would happen if Reggie accounted for over 500 yards like Vince did
island007
10-31-05, 09:08 PM
Welcome, to Bush country.
shizawn
10-31-05, 09:22 PM
damn_west coast bias! :grunt:
pedagogue
10-31-05, 09:48 PM
If TX wins out.....Young will get the trophy. I still think USC is going to lose before the year is out. I'm thinking UCLA will do the deed.
-p
Jericho
10-31-05, 10:16 PM
I'd argue that it's almost always been that way. The link I posted has a good summary of the perfect storm of conditions that has to happen. Two years ago (and maybe a year ago as well), the underclassmen running back who most people considered better lost to their own upperclassmen QB. Steve McNair could have thrown for 12,000 yards and run for 5,000 more and he still wouldn't have won the heisman because he played for Alcorn State. Eric Crouch wasn't the absolute best player in his class, no matter what criteria you use (raw ability, stats, NFL Propects, etc.), but he fulfilled the right conditions, was on the right team, and performed well in big games.
But someone like Eric Crouch is pretty recent, after the Heisman devolved. You used to see people like Andre Ware and Ty Detmer win. Now if your not a QB or a RB and you team isn't top 5 in the country, it's pretty rare to win.
IMRICKJAMES
10-31-05, 10:40 PM
But someone like Eric Crouch is pretty recent, after the Heisman devolved. You used to see people like Andre Ware and Ty Detmer win. Now if your not a QB or a RB and you team isn't top 5 in the country, it's pretty rare to win.
Not only will a small college player never win again I doubt a defensive player will win again...even if its a multi-dimensional one like someone who plays special teams too
kenbuzz
11-01-05, 12:28 AM
VINCE YOUNG 4 HEISMAN
Let's review the last dozen or so Heisman winners:
2004 Matt Leinart Southern California QB - TBD
2003 Jason White Oklahoma QB - Who?
2002 Carson Palmer Southern California QB - Doing well.
2001 Eric Crouch Nebraska QB - Who?
2000 Chris Weinke Florida State QB - Who?
1999 Ron Dayne Wisconsin RB - Who?
1998 Ricky Williams Texas RB - Did well, but self-destructed
1997 Charles Woodson Michigan DB/WR - Was briefly entertaining
1996 Danny Wuerffel Florida QB - Who?
1995 Eddie George Ohio State RB - He was a stud.
1994 Rashaan Salaam Colorado RB - Instant flop
1993 Charlie Ward Florida State QB - Instant flop
1992 Gino Torretta Miami QB - The definition of instant flop
Being good or even "the best" in College Football does not necessarily translate to success in the big leagues. There's a reason why literally tens of thousands of teenagers play college football every year, but only a couple of hundred get drafted, and of those only a fraction even make an impact in the NFL.
IMRICKJAMES
11-01-05, 03:15 AM
Let's review the last dozen or so Heisman winners:
2004 Matt Leinart Southern California QB - TBD
2003 Jason White Oklahoma QB - Who?
2002 Carson Palmer Southern California QB - Doing well.
2001 Eric Crouch Nebraska QB - Who?
2000 Chris Weinke Florida State QB - Who?
1999 Ron Dayne Wisconsin RB - Who?
1998 Ricky Williams Texas RB - Did well, but self-destructed
1997 Charles Woodson Michigan DB/WR - Was briefly entertaining
1996 Danny Wuerffel Florida QB - Who?
1995 Eddie George Ohio State RB - He was a stud.
1994 Rashaan Salaam Colorado RB - Instant flop
1993 Charlie Ward Florida State QB - Instant flop
1992 Gino Torretta Miami QB - The definition of instant flop
Being good or even "the best" in College Football does not necessarily translate to success in the big leagues. There's a reason why literally tens of thousands of teenagers play college football every year, but only a couple of hundred get drafted, and of those only a fraction even make an impact in the NFL.
That wasn't my point. I didnt say anything about success in the big league. The Heisman curse even goes back further to people like Andre Ware. I agree with that. The point I'm making is the way the Heisman is awarded. No one like Andre Ware will ever win it again. No one from a small school is even going to be considered anymore. Once a team gets out of the top 10 they won't even get any pub. The list goes on. The Heisman should be awarded to the most outstanding college football player, not just to the best player on one of the best teams in the country, simply because they happen to be a noteworthy player on a good team
Trelach24
11-04-05, 12:46 AM
The Heisman is supposed to go to the best player in college football.
Reggie Bush is the best player in college football. It's not really even up for debate.
Reggie Bush is going to win the Heisman this year.
So, where exactly is the problem?
Josh H
11-04-05, 01:12 AM
Young will probably win if he keeps it up. Bush and Leinart will split the west coast vote too much this year.
White getting a lot of carries and keeping Bush's numbers down doesn't help either as so many people only care about stats.
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