How do you know if a dvd is FF or WS for sure on an HDTV?
09-27-05, 04:24 AM
#1
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How do you know if a dvd is FF or WS for sure on an HDTV?
I recently bought an HDTV and I'm very new to this. I have 2 questions, but the first one is far more important than the second.
The TV that I bought is a Toshiba 57" and, yes, my dvd player is set already for playback on a 16x9 tv.
But how do you know when something you play on your dvd player is 4 x 3 full frame or widescreen (anamorphic or non) if it doesn't state what it is on the box or there is conflicting info on the net?
I know most dvds say what the aspect ratio is on the back and most dvd info can be easily found on the web, but some info is wrong and this is mostly a question for many of the music dvds that I own. Many, I'd say the vast majority of them, don't say whether they're full screen or widescreen and those that do, don't usually say enhanced for 16 x 9 or not.
I just put in the first dvd from the Elton John Dream ticket and both the 1st and 2nd dvds are in widescreen according to the dvdtalk review. But how would I know this to be able to check it out if I wasn't sure? Would I need to put the dvd in a player on a 4 x 3 tv and see if there were bars on top or bottom?
The settings for the Toshiba are Natural for watching in 4 x 3 tv shows or broadcasts that are in widscreen HD, Theaterwide 1 which takes a 4 x 3 show and fills up the screen with minimal distortion, Theaterwide 2 for non-anamorphic dvds without the bars, Theaterwide 3...I never use, and then there is Full which is for all anamorphic dvds and for non-anamorphic dvds with the bars.
When I'm watcing regular cable, I can always start with natural and know whether something is 4 x3 or 16 x 9, but it's not like that for the dvds.
When I put the setting to normal for a 1.85:1 (or close to that aspect ratio), I get no bars at all on top or bottom. If it's something like 2.35:1, there are bars.
Most concert dvds are in full frame OR an OAR like 1.85:1, but how would I know? How can I check without putting the dvd into a player on a standard tv?
When I put in the Elton dvd, even in the natural setting, it filled up the entire 4 x 3 screen, so with wrong info or no info, I wouldn't know whether it was full frame and to watch it as is with the bars on the sides or to stretch it out with theaterwide 1 or whether it was an anamorphic widescreen concert to be watched on the full setting. Or even if it was non-anamorphic widescreen.
When I took the same dvd and put it in my bedroom dvd player, which is on a standard tv, there were bars on the top and bottom, so I knew it was widescreen (although I didn't know if it was anamorphic, which is question 2, but far less important).
I know the purpose of the 16 x 9 HDTV is to watch things in widescreen and I know that anything around 1.85:1 is going to fill my screen, but why does it still do that in the natural setting, which is like watching on a standard 4 x 3 tv?
Casablanca is a full frame movie and in the natural setting, it fills up my screen (as it should) in the shape of a standard tv (4 x 3). But then you have a widescreen concert in the natural setting and it does the same thing and with most of the concerts I own or anything I might own that doesn't say what it is (widescreen, full frame, anamorphic, non-anamorphic), what do I need to do to know for sure? Is there a way to tell, because other than putting the Elton John dvd in my dvd player on my standard tv, I tried every setting that I could think of on my HDTV to get bars to show on the top and bottom so I could be sure and I couldn't find any way of doing it.
Can someone give me a brief (or long) answer as to how I can know or if I simply have to rely on what I can find on the internet or on my standard dvd player on my 4 x 3 tv?
Thanks for any help with this.
The TV that I bought is a Toshiba 57" and, yes, my dvd player is set already for playback on a 16x9 tv.
But how do you know when something you play on your dvd player is 4 x 3 full frame or widescreen (anamorphic or non) if it doesn't state what it is on the box or there is conflicting info on the net?
I know most dvds say what the aspect ratio is on the back and most dvd info can be easily found on the web, but some info is wrong and this is mostly a question for many of the music dvds that I own. Many, I'd say the vast majority of them, don't say whether they're full screen or widescreen and those that do, don't usually say enhanced for 16 x 9 or not.
I just put in the first dvd from the Elton John Dream ticket and both the 1st and 2nd dvds are in widescreen according to the dvdtalk review. But how would I know this to be able to check it out if I wasn't sure? Would I need to put the dvd in a player on a 4 x 3 tv and see if there were bars on top or bottom?
The settings for the Toshiba are Natural for watching in 4 x 3 tv shows or broadcasts that are in widscreen HD, Theaterwide 1 which takes a 4 x 3 show and fills up the screen with minimal distortion, Theaterwide 2 for non-anamorphic dvds without the bars, Theaterwide 3...I never use, and then there is Full which is for all anamorphic dvds and for non-anamorphic dvds with the bars.
When I'm watcing regular cable, I can always start with natural and know whether something is 4 x3 or 16 x 9, but it's not like that for the dvds.
When I put the setting to normal for a 1.85:1 (or close to that aspect ratio), I get no bars at all on top or bottom. If it's something like 2.35:1, there are bars.
Most concert dvds are in full frame OR an OAR like 1.85:1, but how would I know? How can I check without putting the dvd into a player on a standard tv?
When I put in the Elton dvd, even in the natural setting, it filled up the entire 4 x 3 screen, so with wrong info or no info, I wouldn't know whether it was full frame and to watch it as is with the bars on the sides or to stretch it out with theaterwide 1 or whether it was an anamorphic widescreen concert to be watched on the full setting. Or even if it was non-anamorphic widescreen.
When I took the same dvd and put it in my bedroom dvd player, which is on a standard tv, there were bars on the top and bottom, so I knew it was widescreen (although I didn't know if it was anamorphic, which is question 2, but far less important).
I know the purpose of the 16 x 9 HDTV is to watch things in widescreen and I know that anything around 1.85:1 is going to fill my screen, but why does it still do that in the natural setting, which is like watching on a standard 4 x 3 tv?
Casablanca is a full frame movie and in the natural setting, it fills up my screen (as it should) in the shape of a standard tv (4 x 3). But then you have a widescreen concert in the natural setting and it does the same thing and with most of the concerts I own or anything I might own that doesn't say what it is (widescreen, full frame, anamorphic, non-anamorphic), what do I need to do to know for sure? Is there a way to tell, because other than putting the Elton John dvd in my dvd player on my standard tv, I tried every setting that I could think of on my HDTV to get bars to show on the top and bottom so I could be sure and I couldn't find any way of doing it.
Can someone give me a brief (or long) answer as to how I can know or if I simply have to rely on what I can find on the internet or on my standard dvd player on my 4 x 3 tv?
Thanks for any help with this.
09-27-05, 04:45 AM
#2
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Well the first sign is whether or not the image appears distorted. If you have a DVD that is 4:3 (1.33:1) or non anamorphic (which is the same as 4:3 really) the image will stretch out to fill the width making people look fatter and shorter than normal. If this is the case you need to change the formating options of the TV to make it look normal. Sometimes this means losing a bit of the top and bottom to make the it fit in a 16:9 shape screen. Other times you might decide to see the entire image and fill in the sides with the side bars the TV will generate to fill in the unused area.
The section below was copied from another forum that explains the formating options and what they're called on Toshiba HDTVs. Maybe this will help you a bit.
1) "Why do I still get gray bars on the side of my DVDs, even though I have the DVD player set to 16:9. I have my Toshiba set to 'Natural' picture size as the manual says it should be."
The Toshiba manuals are very unclear on this. The proper setting for anamorphic DVDs (see the next question) is the 'Full' picture size. The proper setting for non-anamorphic letterboxed DVDs is either 'Full' to keep the letterboxing, or TheaterWide 2 to fill the screen. TW2 would also be used to eliminate the letterboxing on standard definition (SD) TV shows that are letterboxed, such as 'Enterprise' and the analog broadcasts of 'ER' and 'The West Wing'. 'Natural' picture size should only be used for the HD input, either true HD shows, or SD shows up-converted and stretched by your set-top box (STB).
And of course, TheaterWide 1 is used to stretch 4:3 (SD) programs input that way from over-the-air (OTA) antennas or other SD sources like cable boxes or satellite receivers.
2) "Some movies fill my screen, but others still have letterboxing. I do have my DVD player on 16:9, and I'm using the 'Full' picture size. Why?"
Ah, a question that's in the top five asked here.
It's because movies come in a variety of OARs (Original Aspect Ratios). Pre-1950's movies were all in 1.33:1 ratio, which simple math tells you is equal to the 4:3 ratio used by SDTV (and is why TVs were built using that ratio from the beginning).
Then when TV started to threaten the movie studios' profits, they had to come up with something to make their product compete and stand out. And thus widescreen movies were born. The early WS movies were 1.66:1, and as time went on, a number of ratios were developed. The most common for movies today are 1.85:1 and 2.35:1, though 1.66:1 is still around.
Now, a 16:9 WS TV is equivalent to a 1.78:1 ratio. With an anamorphic (i.e., "enhanced for widescreen") DVD, a 1.85:1 movie fills your TV screen, because your set's overscan pushes the black bars at the top and the bottom just beyond where you can see them (you actually lose a very, very little bit of the picture off the sides, but it's not enough for any of us to notice). Most movies are in 1.85:1 format these days.
But then there are the "spectacular" movies, that are usually big, special-effects-laden things. In order to get the biggest, most grand, most spectacular picture possible, the director chooses the widest format possible, which is usually 2.35:1 (though there are 2.4:1 and maybe even bigger formats out there). Examples are LOTR, Star Wars:Attack of the Clones, The Fifth Element, Minority report (2.39:1) and The Matrix. Since these movies are wider than your WS TV, you'll still get black letterbox bars on the top and bottom. But they'll be a lot smaller than if you watched the same movie in letterbox mode on a 4:3 TV (which is virtually unwatchable for me now).
You could use one of your TV's stretch modes to eliminate the letterboxing on a 2.35:1 movie, but then you'd lose some of the image off the sides, or make the image look distorted (people would look taller and skinnier). So, sit back, ignore the thin letterboxing bars in very wide ratio movies, and smile for knowing that you're seeing the movie in all its glory, the way the director intended it to look, on a screen that's bigger than most of your neighbors have.
BTW, if you look on the back of the DVD box, at the bottom where all the small print is, you'll usually find both a notice that the DVD is "enhanced for widescreen TVs", AKA anamorphic, and some indicator of the OAR.
The section below was copied from another forum that explains the formating options and what they're called on Toshiba HDTVs. Maybe this will help you a bit.
1) "Why do I still get gray bars on the side of my DVDs, even though I have the DVD player set to 16:9. I have my Toshiba set to 'Natural' picture size as the manual says it should be."
The Toshiba manuals are very unclear on this. The proper setting for anamorphic DVDs (see the next question) is the 'Full' picture size. The proper setting for non-anamorphic letterboxed DVDs is either 'Full' to keep the letterboxing, or TheaterWide 2 to fill the screen. TW2 would also be used to eliminate the letterboxing on standard definition (SD) TV shows that are letterboxed, such as 'Enterprise' and the analog broadcasts of 'ER' and 'The West Wing'. 'Natural' picture size should only be used for the HD input, either true HD shows, or SD shows up-converted and stretched by your set-top box (STB).
And of course, TheaterWide 1 is used to stretch 4:3 (SD) programs input that way from over-the-air (OTA) antennas or other SD sources like cable boxes or satellite receivers.
2) "Some movies fill my screen, but others still have letterboxing. I do have my DVD player on 16:9, and I'm using the 'Full' picture size. Why?"
Ah, a question that's in the top five asked here.
It's because movies come in a variety of OARs (Original Aspect Ratios). Pre-1950's movies were all in 1.33:1 ratio, which simple math tells you is equal to the 4:3 ratio used by SDTV (and is why TVs were built using that ratio from the beginning).
Then when TV started to threaten the movie studios' profits, they had to come up with something to make their product compete and stand out. And thus widescreen movies were born. The early WS movies were 1.66:1, and as time went on, a number of ratios were developed. The most common for movies today are 1.85:1 and 2.35:1, though 1.66:1 is still around.
Now, a 16:9 WS TV is equivalent to a 1.78:1 ratio. With an anamorphic (i.e., "enhanced for widescreen") DVD, a 1.85:1 movie fills your TV screen, because your set's overscan pushes the black bars at the top and the bottom just beyond where you can see them (you actually lose a very, very little bit of the picture off the sides, but it's not enough for any of us to notice). Most movies are in 1.85:1 format these days.
But then there are the "spectacular" movies, that are usually big, special-effects-laden things. In order to get the biggest, most grand, most spectacular picture possible, the director chooses the widest format possible, which is usually 2.35:1 (though there are 2.4:1 and maybe even bigger formats out there). Examples are LOTR, Star Wars:Attack of the Clones, The Fifth Element, Minority report (2.39:1) and The Matrix. Since these movies are wider than your WS TV, you'll still get black letterbox bars on the top and bottom. But they'll be a lot smaller than if you watched the same movie in letterbox mode on a 4:3 TV (which is virtually unwatchable for me now).
You could use one of your TV's stretch modes to eliminate the letterboxing on a 2.35:1 movie, but then you'd lose some of the image off the sides, or make the image look distorted (people would look taller and skinnier). So, sit back, ignore the thin letterboxing bars in very wide ratio movies, and smile for knowing that you're seeing the movie in all its glory, the way the director intended it to look, on a screen that's bigger than most of your neighbors have.
BTW, if you look on the back of the DVD box, at the bottom where all the small print is, you'll usually find both a notice that the DVD is "enhanced for widescreen TVs", AKA anamorphic, and some indicator of the OAR.
09-27-05, 09:22 AM
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The short answer is: You'll have to figure out what stretched looks like compared to normal. Test with DVDs where you are sure about the aspect ratio, like Casablanca, which should have bars on the sides.
09-27-05, 09:31 AM
#4
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Originally Posted by Spiky
The short answer is: You'll have to figure out what stretched looks like compared to normal. Test with DVDs where you are sure about the aspect ratio, like Casablanca, which should have bars on the sides.
09-28-05, 02:13 AM
#5
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Thread Starter
I guess it's fortunate that only the music/concert dvds are the ones that I have that often lack any info on whether they're widescreen or, if they are, whether they're anamorphic or not.
Of course, the problem is only with having to guess on 4:3 concerts based on the distortions. It's just a drag to watch something for a few minutes and then start it over in a different pic mode.
But even non-anamorphic concerts have the bars on top and bottom, so you know to watch it in the proper modes right away.
What mode do most of you watch your non-anamorphic dvds? For 4 x 3, I absolutely prefer to do the stretch (for my tv, that's called TW1). But I'd never watched a non-anamorphic dvd on my new HDTV until tonight and the proper settings for that are, full, if you want the bars on top and bottom and to see all the picture, or TW2, if you want to fill the screen with some loss of picture.
I haven't had time to judge a lot, but filling the screen on TW2 seems to take away more of the image than I'm comfortable with. The stretch from a 4 x 3 standard to filling the screen is pretty subtle to me, but I didn't think it was so subtle for the non-anamorphic movie.
What do most of you think about that? Do you watch your non-anamorphic dvds with the bars on top or bottom or do you fill the screen?
Thanks.
Of course, the problem is only with having to guess on 4:3 concerts based on the distortions. It's just a drag to watch something for a few minutes and then start it over in a different pic mode.
But even non-anamorphic concerts have the bars on top and bottom, so you know to watch it in the proper modes right away.
What mode do most of you watch your non-anamorphic dvds? For 4 x 3, I absolutely prefer to do the stretch (for my tv, that's called TW1). But I'd never watched a non-anamorphic dvd on my new HDTV until tonight and the proper settings for that are, full, if you want the bars on top and bottom and to see all the picture, or TW2, if you want to fill the screen with some loss of picture.
I haven't had time to judge a lot, but filling the screen on TW2 seems to take away more of the image than I'm comfortable with. The stretch from a 4 x 3 standard to filling the screen is pretty subtle to me, but I didn't think it was so subtle for the non-anamorphic movie.
What do most of you think about that? Do you watch your non-anamorphic dvds with the bars on top or bottom or do you fill the screen?
Thanks.
09-28-05, 09:00 AM
#6
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Originally Posted by dolphinboy
What do most of you think about that? Do you watch your non-anamorphic dvds with the bars on top or bottom or do you fill the screen?
Thanks.
Thanks.
09-28-05, 12:03 PM
#8
DVD Talk Gold Edition
The only movie that I ever "scaled" so that I didn't get black bars on the side was High Plains Drifter. I could kick myself for not checking that it was "letterboxed" and not "anamorphic widescreen". I have a 52" JVC D-ILA and I used the Panasonic DVD player's scaling to bring it up to where the side black bars just disappeared. I'm getting a newer player today (Panasonic S77) that will be connected via HDMI and upconverts to 720p (my TV's native rez) or 1080i. I'll pop in High Plains again and see if it makes a difference in picture quality for non-anamorphic letterboxed stuff.
