dvdsteve2000

I am taking a plunge into the HD world, and I am hoping someone can give me an educated opinion about this TV... THIS T.V.. I've been reading up on the different kinds of TV's, and I truly had my heart set on a 65" Mitsubishi Rear Proj., but after reading about RP's, their colossal size, inferior (To DLP, Plasma, and LCD) picture, and more frequent technical issues has led me to looking for another alternative. The Hitachi that I linked above, in my opinion, had the best looking picture of the ones I looked at, and within my price range (up to $2,500).

Can someone please let me know if there's something in the specs that is unappealing? Will I be able to just get an HD cable box and be ready to watch HD programming, or do I need an adapter? The specs say 720p, but also say 1080p & 1080i, so which is it? I'm just asking if someone can decipher the specs a little for me and tell me what I will be gaining, or missing out on, if I buy this TV.

Thanks a bunch.

~Steve

dvdsteve2000

Oh yeah, if anyone has a suggestion for a TV that I can get in my price range, please feel free.

chipmac

IMO go back to the Mits. You can get the 65" Mits for around 2 grand. The price could be more or less depending if you get one with a built in tuner. Once calibrated it will have a better picture than any DLP, LCD or plasma in the right lighting conditions of course. By the way where did you hear that a CRT doesn't have as good of an image as a DLP, LCD or a plasma? CRT based TVs still are the preferred choice of video aficionados that are a proven technology whereas the digital displays are still going through growing pains. Sure you need to set them up a little more but once that's done they can't be beat. The space thing never made sense to me either since after most people put a flat panel on a TV stand the depth is about the same.

But if you've made up you mind then the Hitachi is about as good as the other brands. These digital TVs display everything at 720p or some other native res that is close to that. All other res can be accepted and converted to 720p. So when you get your HD cable box just set it to output everything at 720p and you're good to go.

dvdsteve2000

Thanks for the reply. Here are the 65" specs. Comparatively speaking, the 65" should get as good a picture as the Hitachi? How do you go about getting a TV calibrated? Man, this is getting more confusing, lol.

shelland

Generally speaking, RPTV's will get you more for your money. The other technologies are a little newer, so the prices haven't come down quite as much. When I bought my Pioneer 2 1/2 years ago, my final decision came down to Pioneer and Mitsubishi. I've also read a lot of great things about Hitachi. One of the forums that I did a lot of my research in at the time was http://www.hometheaterspot.com

Ready to get more confused?

Be wary of what you see in the stores. This obviously goes against everything a consumer thinks. The problem is that these TVs are set to look good in their bright showrooms, and will look completely different once in your specific viewing location. They set the contrast to levels that make them look bright, which is what catches the consumers eye in the store. If you leave the settings the same in your home, they are going to ruin your TV (at least in the case of RPTV).

When I was doing my research, it took a while for the light bulb to go on. But read a lot online in these forums from people that actually know what they're talking about, and are speaking from experiences with these TVs in their house. Have you noticed yet that most TV sales people have no idea what they're talking about? Ever asked a question, and they read the label on the shelf to you? They unfortunately have no idea what these TVs will do in your house, they know what they read in some literature. Judge on real life experiences, not what some college student read in the manual...

I looked at the TVs in the stores to see which styles I liked, etc. But when it came to making the choice on quality, I based that on lots of online reading. I'm sure that's now what you wanted to hear...

travlr

My dad has that model Mitsu and it's an very nice tv. The picture quality is excellent and he's had no problems with it.

chipmac

The Mits will kick the shit out of the Hitachi in terms of PQ and it's 15" larger to boot. Getting a TV calibrated is like bringing your car to a speed shop vs your local auto mechanic. One will make sure it runs to factory spec and the other will make it go beyond.

Shelland gives some good advice. Be very wary of how a TV looks in the store and what the sales people tell you. The HomeTheaterSpot is an excellent forum for doing your research because a lot of the information there was shared from pro calibrators. These guys know their stuff. They work on these things every day and their knowledge goes far beyond your typical service tech. Which brings up another point; their are differences between a calibrator and a service tech. The tech's job is to fix a broken TV and bring it back into the operating range from the manufacturer's point of view. A calibrator's job is to make sure that the TV provides the PQ from a set of standards that the ISF and the industry have agreed upon. Some of these calibrators are also techs and can fix and replace parts while also giving you superior PQ.

I always ask people to analyze how they'll be using their HDTV and to determine their choice on this as well as the features, price they can afford and the history of reliability of the model. All HDTVs once calibrated will give a great image but what good is that if it's not going to last or if it's not the right type for you.

An RPTV needs to have some amount of light control. If you plan on watching it in a brightly sunlit room the majority of the time then that's not the correct choice for you.

How far away from the screen will you be sitting and at what angles? RPTVs due to their design are not meant to be viewed at extreme angles without some drop off of light output.

What type of signal will you be watching most of the time? On a HD display any old analog signal is going to look much worse than it did on a 36" direct view TV. These TVs are made for HD signals and a very good SD signal like DVD but things can be done to make standard cable acceptable.

How do you feel about stretching the image of a 4:3 TV show to fill the width of a 16:9 screen? Some people hate to stretch at all and some brands stretch better than others. Here's another area where you can't judge in a store. If the amount of overscan is too much on the store model it will give the impression that it stretches too much. If the overscan is reduced to a minimal amount it will make the amount of stretching much less and also sharpen the image. Unfortunately no two RPTVs' have the same amount of overscan OOB so you need to run an Overscan test pattern to find out the amount you're looking at.

As for features; what kind and how many connection options do you need? How is the remote or will you be replacing it with a universal remote? How is the scaling of SD res to HD res if the TV has this feature? Just so you know Mits doesn't scale to HD res. They're the last (I think) that will show 480p natively without converting it to 1080i or 540p and many people hope they never change this. Do you live in an area where you can get an OTA HD signal? Then you might what to get a TV with a built in HD tuner.

I hope I'm giving you some idea that buying a TV is much different today than it used to be. There are a lot more things to consider and understand so you spend your money wisely.

If you decide to spend the money on a pro cal I can highly recommend Craig Rounds who did my Mits or you can find others on the Spot forums. Here's is another area where just not any person will do. Some calibrators are more experienced on some brands and models more than others. Some include more in the price than others. Some do the basic things and charge more for more advanced work. Some do the whole ball of wax for one set charge no matter how many hours it takes.

Good luck.

dvdsteve2000

Thanks for the input guys. Chip-I read your review of the guy that did your calibration on a different forum when I was doing a search of Mits TV's and it was very informing. OK, from what I read in your above post, the Mits DOES NOT have an HD Tuner, but is HD compatable, correct? How important is that? Also, in this statement:

How is the scaling of SD res to HD res if the TV has this feature? Just so you know Mits doesn't scale to HD res. They're the last (I think) that will show 480p natively without converting it to 1080i or 540p and many people hope they never change this

...what exactly do you mean? Isn't a picture better if it is converted to 1080i? Is 480p as good of a picture as something that is 540/1080?

Another thing that I noticed on the Hiatchi LCD was an optical out, which the Mits doesn't have, BUT, I have a 770w receiver that I planned on using, AND I figured if my HD cable box had optical out, which I think it will/does, that shouldn't matter, correct?

Also, you guys were correct in saying salesmen don't know anything, lol. One guy started talking to me about Dalhia (sp?), which is a new technology for DLP's I believe, but when I went to another store and asked the guy if they had any Dalhia sets, he said "We don't carry that brand, but we do have Sony's & Philip's over here".

Basically, I'm looking for a TV for under $2,500 that is as big as possible. I watch about 5-8 dvd's a week, play X-Box about 12 hours a week, watch some Seinfeld reruns & CSI:Miami, and the rest of the time the TV will be watched by the kids (ages 5 & 3). Do you think the Mits is the way to go?

Thanks!!

chipmac

DEpending on the model you're looking at the Mits could have a built in HD tuner. Some models do and some don't. Either way they are both capable of displaying an HD signal. The ones with a built in tuner are good for OTA digital signals and unscrambled cable channels from some cable companies that use the QAM standard. If it doesn't have a built in tuner you simply use a cable or sat STB to receive and decode the signal before sending it out to the TV. I myself prefer this method since advances in decoder technology will always happen and you can then upgrade the box as needed. But the internal tuner does have the advantage of receiving free OTA HD and being available should you lose your cable or sat signal.

The question of upscaling is a matter of debate. SD broadcasts and SD DVDs are only 480 lines of resolution. You can show them progressively or interlaced but it only contains 480 lines of resolution. No more and no less. So if it's scaled to 1080i or 540p or in some cases 720p you are adding in information to the image that wasn't there to begin with. In some cases it can be done well and fool some into thinking it truly an HD signal. Other times the conversion adds artifacts into the image that takes away from the PQ. Any time a conversion takes place you increase the possibility of adding unwanted artifacts or video noise to the original signal. Depending on the quality of the components used and your own preference will determine if you like it or not. A good quality progressive player that sends a 480p signal to a well calibrated Mits which in turn displays it as is without any conversion looks very, very good. The thing that you may notice depending on seating distance are the scan lines that are more visible on 480p than 1080i. I sit 8 feet from my 55" and rarely notice any scan lines on 480p. If I sat closer perhaps I would.

HDTVs with a built in tuner will have some form of digital audio out to send the audio to a receiver from the tuner in the TV. In the Hitachi's case they use optical. I believe Mits uses coax.

I think the Mits can be a good choice for you but I'd get the little ones a 20" of their own so they don't abuse yours.

dvdsteve2000

Well, I decided to go with neither of the TV's I mentioned above. I decided to go with this one, which gives me the size I'm looking for, without the bulkiness of an RP:

Samsung HL-R6167W 61" DLP


Product type Projection TV - Color


Technology Projection DLP


Diagonal size 61 in


Image aspect ratio 16:9


HDTV compatible Yes


Width 56.9 in


Depth 18.4 in


Height 41.6 in


Weight 94.6 lbs
Video System
Resolution 1280 x 720


Comb filter 3D-Y/C digital


Image contrast ratio 2500:1


Brightness 600 cd/m2
Audio System
Audio system sound output mode Stereo


Total output power 30 Watt


Speakers included 2 speakers


Speaker system details 2 x Right/left channel speaker - Built-in - 15 Watt
Television Features
Widescreen modes Wide, Zoom, Normal, Panorama


Additional features On-screen menu, Contrast enhancer, Color detail enhancer, 3:2 pulldown compensation, DNIe (Digital Natural Image engine)
Tuner / Channel Details
Tuner type (qty) Standard TV (2) , HDTV


TV tuner multi-channel preview Split screen, Picture-in-picture (PIP)


TV tuner reception system NTSC


TV tuner preset channel qty 181


TV tuner channel coverage VHF:2-13, UHF:14-69, Cable:1-125


Channel labeling Yes


Electronic program guide Digital EPG
Remote Control
Remote control Remote control (Infrared)
Connections / Cables / Slots
Input/Output connections 2 x Composite video/audio input (RCA phono x 3) - Rear, 2 x Component video input (RCA phono x 3) - Rear, 2 x S-Video input (4 pin mini-DIN) - Rear, 1 x Composite video/audio output (RCA phono x 3) - Rear, 4 x Audio line-in (RCA phono x 2) - Rear, 1 x VGA input (15 pin HD D-Sub (HD-15)) - Rear, 1 x HDMI (19 pin HDMI Type A) - Rear, 2 x IEEE 1394 (FireWire/i.LINK) - Rear, 2 x RF input (F connector) - Rear, 1 x S-Video input (4 pin mini-DIN) - Side, 1 x Composite video/audio input (RCA phono x 3) - Side, 1 x G-Link Interface - Rear, 1 x SPDIF output (TOS Link) - Rear


Slot(s) provided CableCARD
Power
Power device Power supply -


Voltage required 60 Hz


Power consumption operational 230 Watt
Shipping Dimensions
Width (shipping) 62.2 in


Depth (shipping) 22.2 in


Height (shipping) 45.9 in


Weight (shipping) 120.2 lbs

I'm going to order this on Friday. If anyone sees any reason to NOT order this TV, please feel free to say so. Otherwise, thanks for all the help!!

~Steve

chipmac

Specs wise it sounds decent and I don't know enough about it to say otherwise. But I have heard people having problems lately with this brand having audio sync issues. I prefer analog displays myself since they look more like watching projected film. I haven't seen a digital display that the image quality hasn't looked .... well digital.

DVD Polizei

Samsung's DLP is the way to go in my opinion. However, anything larger than 50" and you will lose the brightness. On Samsungs sets (and I've checked because I'm looking at the HL-R5678), you lose 100cd/m for every model you upgrade from their 50" versions. Getting the 61" or 71" models is not my recommendation--the 61" is only 600cd/m. I'd get the 56" at the largest and you get an extra 100cd/m, which is about 15% more cd/m than the 61".

Is 5" more really worth it? I don't think so.