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View Full Version : PBS Frontline - Why The French Like Nuclear Energy


grundle
08-25-05, 11:49 AM
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/reaction/readings/french.html

PBS Frontline - Why The French Like Nuclear Energy

<b>Civaux in southwestern France is a stereotypical rural French village with a square, a church and a small school. On a typical day, Monsieur Rambault, the baker, is up before dawn turning out baguettes and croissants. Shortly after, teacher Rene Barc opens the small school. There is a blacksmith, a hairdresser, a post office, a general store and a couple of bars. But overlooking the picturesque hamlet are two giant cooling towers from a nuclear plant, still under construction, a half-mile away. When the Civaux nuclear power plant comes on line sometime in the next 12 months, France will have 56 working nuclear plants, generating 76% of her electricity.

In France, unlike in America, nuclear energy is accepted, even popular. Everybody I spoke to in Civaux loves the fact their region was chosen. The nuclear plant has brought jobs and prosperity to the area. Nobody I spoke to, nobody, expressed any fear. From the village school teacher, Rene Barc, to the patron of the Cafe de Sport bar, Valerie Turbeau, any traces of doubt they might have had have faded as they have come to know plant workers, visited the reactor site and thought about the benefits of being part of France's nuclear energy effort.

France's decision to launch a large nuclear program dates back to 1973 and the events in the Middle East that they refer to as the "oil shock." The quadrupling of the price of oil by OPEC nations was indeed a shock for France because at that time most of its electricity came from oil burning plants. France had and still has very few natural energy resources. It has no oil, no gas and her coal resources are very poor and virtually exhausted.

French policy makers saw only one way for France to achieve energy independence: nuclear energy, a source of energy so compact that a few pounds of fissionable uranium is all the fuel needed to run a big city for a year. Plans were drawn up to introduce the most comprehensive national nuclear energy program in history. Over the next 15 years France installed 56 nuclear reactors, satisfying its power needs and even exporting electricity to other European countries.</b>

There were some protests in the early 70s, but since then (with one important exception discussed below), the nuclear program has been popular and remarkably non controversial. How was France able to get its people to accept nuclear power? What is about French culture and politics that allowed them to succeed where most other countries have failed?

Claude Mandil, the General Director for Energy and Raw Materials at the Ministry of Industry, cites at least three reasons. First, he says, the French are an independent people. The thought of being dependent for energy on a volatile region of the world such as the Middle East disturbed many French people. Citizens quickly accepted that nuclear might be a necessity. A popular French riposte to the question of why they have so much nuclear energy is "no oil, no gas, no coal, no choice."

Second, Mandil cites cultural factors. France has a tradition of large, centrally managed technological projects. And, he says, they are popular. "French people like large projects. They like nuclear for the same reasons they like high speed trains and supersonic jets."

<b>Part of their popularity comes from the fact that scientists and engineers have a much higher status in France than in America.</b> Many high ranking civil servants and government officials trained as scientists and engineers (rather than lawyers, as in the United States), and, unlike in the U.S. where federal administrators are often looked down upon, these technocrats form a special elite. Many have graduated from a few elite schools such as the Ecole Polytechnic. According to Mandil, respect and trust in technocrats is widespread. <b>"For a long time, in families, the good thing for a child to become was an engineer or a scientist, not a lawyer. We like our engineers and our scientists and we are confident in them."</b>

Thirdly, he says, the French authorities have worked hard to get people to think of the benefits of nuclear energy as well as the risks. Glossy television advertising campaigns reinforce the link between nuclear power and the electricity that makes modern life possible. Nuclear plants solicit people to take tours--an offer that six million French people have taken up. Today, nuclear energy is an everyday thing in France.

Many polls have been taken of French public opinion and most find that about two-thirds of the population are strongly in favor of nuclear power. It's not that the French don't have a gut fear of nuclear power. Psychologist Paul Slovic and his colleagues at Decision Research in Eugene, Oregon, discovered in their surveys that many French people have similar negative imagery and fears of radiation and disaster as Americans. The difference is that cultural, economic and political forces in France act to counteract these fears.

For example, while French citizens cannot control nuclear technology anymore than Americans, the fact that they trust the technocrats that do control it makes them feel more secure. Then there is need. Most French people know that life would be very difficult without nuclear energy. Because they need nuclear power more than us, they fear it less.

Civaux baker Jacques Rambault, admits that this technology is potentially dangerous and needs skillful management. As Chernobyl showed, the Russians, he says, were not "up to the task. But the French scientists and engineers are." For other citizens, rubbing shoulders with workers at the plant has made this once exotic technology an everyday thing. Many other risks concern them more. Madame Schoumacher, who has lived in Civaux most of her life, says "I would be much more frightened living next to a dam [France has about 12% hydroelectric power] or getting into her car in the morning." Others like bar owner Alain Cauvin cite "mad cow disease as being much scarier than nuclear power.

<b>Ironically, the French nuclear program is based on American technology. After experimenting with their own gas-cooled reactors in the 1960s, the French gave up and purchased American Pressurized Water Reactors designed by Westinghouse. Sticking to just one design meant the 56 plants were much cheaper to build than in the US. Moreover, management of safety issues was much easier: the lessons from any incident at one plant could be quickly learned by managers of the other 55 plants. The "return of experience" says Mandil is much greater in a standardized system than in a free for all, with many different designs managed by many different utilities as we have in America.</b>

Things were going very well until the late 80s when another nuclear issue surfaced that threatened to derail their very successful program: nuclear waste.

French technocrats had never thought that the waste issue would be much of a problem. From the beginning the French had been recycling their nuclear waste, reclaiming the plutonium and unused uranium and fabricating new fuel elements. This not only gave energy, it reduced the volume and longevity of French radioactive waste. <b>The volume of the ultimate high-level waste was indeed very small: the contribution of a family of four using electricity for 20 years is a glass cylinder the size of a cigarette lighter.</b> It was assumed that this high-level waste would be buried in underground geological storage and in the 80s French engineers began digging exploratory holes in France's rural regions.

To the astonishment of France's technocrats, the populations in these regions were extremely unhappy. There were riots. The same rural regions that had actively lobbied to become nuclear power plant sites were openly hostile to the idea of being selected as France's nuclear waste dump. In retrospect, Mandil says, it's not surprising. It's not the risk of a waste site, so much as the lack of any perceived benefit. "People in France can be proud of their nuclear plants, but nobody wants to be proud of having a nuclear dustbin under its feet." In 1990, all activity was stopped and the matter was turned over to the French parliament, who appointed a politician, Monsieur Bataille, to look into the matter.

Christian Bataille resembles the French comedian Jacques Tati. His face breaks into a broad grin when asked why he was appointed to this task. "They were desperate," he says. "In France, executive power dominates much more than in Anglo-Saxon countries. So that if the Executive asks parliament to do something it means they are really at the end of their ideas."

Bataille went and spoke to the people who were protesting and soon realized that the engineers and bureaucrats had greatly misunderstood the psychology of the French people. The technocrats had seen the problem in technical terms. To them, the cheapest and safest solution was to permanently bury the waste underground. But for the rural French says Bataille, "the idea of burying the waste awoke the most profound human myths. In France we bury the dead, we don't bury nuclear waste...there was an idea of profanation of the soil, desecration of the Earth."

Bataille discovered that the rural populations had an idea of "Parisians, the consumers of electricity, coming to the countryside, going to the bottom of your garden with a spade, digging a hole and burying nuclear waste, permanently." Using the word permanently was especially clumsy says Bataille because it left the impression that the authorities were abandoning the waste forever and would never come back to take care of it.

Fighting the objections of technical experts who argued it would increase costs, Bataille introduced the notions of reversibility and stocking. <b>Waste should not be buried permanently but rather stocked in a way that made it accessible at some time in the future. People felt much happier with the idea of a "stocking center" than a "nuclear graveyard". Was this just a semantic difference? No, says Bataille. Stocking waste and watching it involves a commitment to the future. It implies that the waste will not be forgotten. It implies that the authorities will continue to be responsible. And, says Bataille, it offers some possibility of future advances. "Today we stock containers of waste because currently scientists don't know how to reduce or eliminate the toxicity, but maybe in 100 years perhaps scientists will."</b>

Bataille began working on a new law that he presented to parliament in 1991. It laid plans to build 3-4 research laboratories at various sites. These laboratories would be charged with investigating various options, including deep geological storage, above ground stocking and transmutation and detoxification of waste. The law calls for the labs to be built in the next few years and then, based on the research they yield, parliament will decide its final decision. Bataille's law specifies 2006 as the year in which parliament must decide which laboratory will become the national stocking center

Bataille's plan seems to be working. Several regions have applied to host underground laboratories hoping the labs will bring in money and high prestige scientific jobs. But ultimate success is by no means certain. One of these laboratories will, in effect, become the stocking center for the nation and the local people may find that unacceptable. If protesters organize, they can block shipments on the roads and rail. The situation could quickly get out of hand.

Nuclear waste is an enormously difficult political problem which to date no country has solved. It is, in a sense, the Achilles heel of the nuclear industry. Could this issue strike down France's uniquely successful nuclear program? France's politicians and technocrats are in no doubt. If France is unable to solve this issue, says Mandil, then "I do not see how we can continue our nuclear program."

al_bundy
08-25-05, 12:03 PM
in the latest energy bill there was a lot of good stuff for nuclear powerplants

Mordred
08-25-05, 12:13 PM
One of the few things the French get absolutely right. Wish we were willing to learn a thing or two from their example, although in the current climate, "look the French are doing it!" isn't a way to bolster your argument.

bhk
08-25-05, 12:22 PM
Imagine the damage if the US converted to nuclear energy, everyone would have their own time travelling DeLorean and things would be a mess.

I do think that we should build more nuclear energy plants and instead of wasting money on the space station, fly nuclear waste into the sun.

VinVega
08-25-05, 02:53 PM
Imagine the damage if the US converted to nuclear energy, everyone would have their own time travelling DeLorean and things would be a mess.

I do think that we should build more nuclear energy plants and instead of wasting money on the space station, fly nuclear waste into the sun.
I've pondered that same idea. I'm sure it's just too expensive to fly all the nuclear junk into the sun, but it would be a good solution, no? The Sun is just a big nuclear reactor itself and would vaporize all the nuclear material anyway.

Myster X
08-25-05, 03:05 PM
reprocess it can make really cheap electricity

Otto
08-25-05, 03:07 PM
I've pondered that same idea. I'm sure it's just too expensive to fly all the nuclear junk into the sun, but it would be a good solution, no? The Sun is just a big nuclear reactor itself and would vaporize all the nuclear material anyway.
That would be incredibly foolish. Here you have a material that's giving off high energy particles and will be doing so for a long time, and you're just going to throw it away? It doesn't seem to you that the stuff might be valuable once we figure out how to use it?

Burying it in a way where it can't hurt anybody, but can be dug up later if needed is really a damned good idea if you think about it a bit harder.

Anyway, the French have this one right. Reprocessing the waste to extract all the energy we can from it is the best option. The reason we have so much waste is that we don't reprocess it. This is material we can use several times over before it's exhausted, and instead of doing so, the plan is to build a bigger hole in the ground instead of properly reprocessing the stuff. Why? Because people are scared of it, essentially. Bah.

Anyway, you can't throw it into the sun. Because doing that means sticking it on a rocket and launching it away, and rockets have this tendancy to explode every once in a while, and scattering a few tons of nuclear waste over half the planet doesn't seem to be risk worth taking.

jdodd
08-25-05, 03:19 PM
I've pondered that same idea. I'm sure it's just too expensive to fly all the nuclear junk into the sun, but it would be a good solution, no? The Sun is just a big nuclear reactor itself and would vaporize all the nuclear material anyway.
I'm not sure it would be all that much more expensive than a standard launch. The main problem I see is if there is a problem with the rocket during launch and it explodes a-la Challenger -- it doesn't seem like a terribly good idea to have tons of nuclear waste in the middle of an explosion.

But the chances of that are so remote and there would probably be so much extra attention paid to safety during launch that would probably cancel out most of the risk.

jdodd
08-25-05, 03:22 PM
Damn your editing, Otto. :mad:

VinVega
08-25-05, 03:36 PM
The reason we have so much waste is that we don't reprocess it. This is material we can use several times over before it's exhausted...
I thought the only thing spent fuel rods were good for was nuclear weapons. I didn't know you could reuse it. If that's the case we should be doing that. :shrug:

Myster X
08-25-05, 03:41 PM
Dr. Bill Watterburg claimed the waste from reprocess fuel, after converting to electricity, for a familiy of four over twenty years would fit inside a shoebox.

al_bundy
08-25-05, 03:41 PM
I'm not sure it would be all that much more expensive than a standard launch. The main problem I see is if there is a problem with the rocket during launch and it explodes a-la Challenger -- it doesn't seem like a terribly good idea to have tons of nuclear waste in the middle of an explosion.

But the chances of that are so remote and there would probably be so much extra attention paid to safety during launch that would probably cancel out most of the risk.

we'll just outsoruce that part to China

they have no problem polluting their country for a few $$$

grundle
08-27-05, 03:56 PM
The information in the bold paragraph is a surprise:


http://www.rasmussenreports.com/2005/Energy_Nuclear%20Power_August%2016.htm

Support Grows for Nuclear Power Plants

August 16, 2005--As the price of oil surges, so has support for building nuclear power plants in the United States. The latest Rasmussen Reports survey finds that Americans support the nuclear power option by a more than 2-to-1 margin (55% to 24%).

In June, before the latest surge in oil prices, the country was more evenly divided on that question--44% in favor and 35% opposed. Much of the growth in support for nuclear power plants can be found among women and Democrats. However, men and Republicans remain even more supportive.

Eighty-seven percent (87%) of Americans believe it is somewhat or very important for the U.S. to reduce its reliance on imported oil. That's essentially unchanged from the earlier survey.

Also unchanged is the belief that energy conservation is not a lasting solution. Sixty-four percent (64%) say that, in the long run, developing new sources of energy is more important than conserving energy. Just 26% take the opposite view.

Sixty-four percent (64%) of men and 46% of women say it is "time for the United States to begin building power plants again." Twenty-two percent of men and 25% of women take the opposite view. Earlier in the summer, a plurality of women were opposed to building new nuclear power plants.

<b>A similar shift has occurred among Democrats. By a 52% to 26% margin, members of Howard Dean's party support building more nuclear power plants. In the previous survey, a plurality of Democrats were opposed.</b>

Republicans support building new nuclear power plants by a 63% to 18% margin.

Sixty-nine percent (69%) of Republicans believe developing new energy sources is more important than conserving energy. That view is shared by 59% of Democrats and 64% of unaffiliateds.

Rising oil prices have depressed consumer confidence. This may be the reason that more people are willing to support more nuclear power plants in the United States.

Demographic details available for Premium Members.

Rasmussen Reports is an electronic publishing firm specializing in the collection, publication, and distribution of public opinion polling information.

Rasmussen Reports was the nation's most accurate polling firm during the Presidential election and the only one to project both Bush and Kerry's vote total within half a percentage point of the actual outcome.

During Election 2004, RasmussenReports.com was also the top-ranked public opinion research site on the web. We had twice as many visitors as our nearest competitor and nearly as many as all competitors combined.

Scott Rasmussen, president of Rasmussen Reports, has been an independent pollster for more than a decade.

DVD Polizei
08-27-05, 07:01 PM
Don't get too excited. We'll have a poll first thing Monday which says Democrats are hesitant.

In any case, this is where the French has surpassed the US. They do seem more mature when it comes to nuclear power. In the US, gas companies are still perpetuating the myth of "3 MILE ISLAND" and how nuclear energy is responsible for deformities and will just basically kill all human life.

movielib
08-27-05, 08:47 PM
The information in the bold paragraph is a surprise:
Think where we'd be if most of the Ameican public hadn't been so spooked by 3 Mile Island which killed or hurt nobody (except the owners of the plant and later rate payers financially and all the rest of us deprived of having far more nuclear power for the last quarter century) and was never in any danger of doing so despite the ridiculous media hype about the "hydrogen bubble" (pushed by some scientists who should have known better) and other assorted crapola.

http://stellar-one.com/nuclear/staff_reports/summary_chemistry.htm

Of course, the (more extreme, which is most of them) enviros have fed off this junk science for a quarter of a century, preventing us from having France type nuclear power.

DVD Polizei
08-27-05, 09:29 PM
Yeah, that's another thing. I kid you not, all of my friends remember 3 Mile Island as the most horrible nuclear plant incident in the US, and how hundreds died because of the leak.

Draven
08-27-05, 11:12 PM
I'll be honest and say I'm all for nuclear power, but I don't want it in my backyard.

I think that attitude is the main deterrent.

movielib
08-27-05, 11:46 PM
I'll be honest and say I'm all for nuclear power, but I don't want it in my backyard.

I think that attitude is the main deterrent.
I wouldn't mind one in my backyard. With the rent I could charge I figure I could retire.

Seriously, it's never going to be that close. But I wouldn't mind its being as close as appropriate to my residential neighborhood. A nuclear plant is almost sure to do less harm than a coal fired plant. Yes, if there's a "disaster" the nuclear plant will do a great deal of harm. But it's so unlikely that it's hardly worth thinking about (unless you live in the TV show 24 or in the environmentalists' fantasies). It's like people feeling safer in their cars than in a plane even though statistics show flying is much safer on average.

DVD Polizei
08-28-05, 12:11 AM
And since we're on the subject, a terrorist attack on a nuclear facility would be so difficult, and if successful, would be a fraction of the casualty loss than say, flying a plane into a building. Some are under the impression a nuclear plant can be turned into a nuclear bomb. Nope. You'd have an equal chance of blowing up a nuclear family and having them becoming atomic.

Just because the word has N U C L E A R in it, does not mean it's an atomic destruction device.

But alas, some massive re-educating needs to happen.

kvrdave
08-28-05, 01:48 AM
Part of the appeal to me would be the boost to the economy. Imagine if we set out to build 20 nuclear facilities. The work to build them would provide a lot of jobs, there would be a lot of jobs at the plant once it is done, and the end result would be more electricity produced more efficiently, and far cheaper than any other method. Where my community once had an aluminum smelter along the Columbia River, I would gladly have a nuclear power plant.

The only real downside I see is for companies who have put a lot of money into gas fired electricity plants. But, gas should be conserved to be used in a lot of other areas when there is a very cheap and efficient way to produce electricity like nuclear power.

It will probably take a Democrat president to actually get it done, however. With a Republican, too many Greenies would get front stage attention, which would be muted with a Dem in the office. Also, too many Dems would oppose a Rep. nuke initiative becuase it was Republican in origin, but I don't see a huge number of Republicans going against it.

Just like you probably couldn't have gotten NAFTA through without a Democratic president, our nuclear future will probably rely on one as well.

movielib
08-28-05, 09:08 AM
... Imagine if we set out to build 20 nuclear facilities. The work to build them would provide a lot of jobs, there would be a lot of jobs at the plant once it is done, and the end result would be more electricity produced more efficiently, and far cheaper than any other method...
...

I love how the enviros put up every conceivable political roadblock, demand umpteen "environmental impact" studies, include all that artificially inflated cost in calculating the "cost" of nuclear energy and then gleefully squeal: "See, nuclear power isn't cheap!"

Pharoh
08-28-05, 09:27 AM
I wouldn't mind one in my backyard. With the rent I could charge I figure I could retire.

Seriously, it's never going to be that close. But I wouldn't mind its being as close as appropriate to my residential neighborhood. A nuclear plant is almost sure to do less harm than a coal fired plant. Yes, if there's a "disaster" the nuclear plant will do a great deal of harm. But it's so unlikely that it's hardly worth thinking about (unless you live in the TV show 24 or in the environmentalists' fantasies). It's like people feeling safer in their cars than in a plane even though statistics show flying is much safer on average.



I have one in my backyard. The windfall for the community has been enormous.

grundle
08-28-05, 10:03 AM
Here's a democraticunderground debate on nuclear power vs solar power. Everyone in this debate is a Democrat.

Solar power is a joke. Here's a brief exceprt from the post that started this thread:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x29376

Thus we see that the real solar PV capacity of the top 50 solar plants in the world was somewhere around ..... 12.2 Megawatts.

Last year the Diablo Canyon nuclear station Unit 1 reactor (as in 1 of 2) produced ..... 1,067 Megawatts

We can all be encouraged that the top 50 solar PV plants in the world managed to produce more than 1% of one half of 1 nuclear power plant out of 440 nuclear plants in the world

grundle
08-28-05, 10:37 AM
Another democraticunderground thread on nuclear vs solar.

This is from post 25 in this other thread:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x29716#29889

..... there is not one nation on the planet that produces 1% of its power from PV power.

Not one.

There are 19 nations that produce 20% or more of their power by nuclear means, and 8 nations that produce more than 40% by nuclear power.

The 5 nations with the largest economies in the world, the United States, Japan, Germany, France, and the United Kingdom all have huge nuclear capacity.

silentbob007
08-28-05, 12:30 PM
I agree that the "not in my backyard" attitude is what is the most detrimental to nuclear power.

OldDude
08-28-05, 12:47 PM
Grundle said:
Solar power is a joke. Here's a brief exceprt from the post that started this thread:


Quote:
http://www.democraticunderground.co...dress=115x29376

Thus we see that the real solar PV capacity of the top 50 solar plants in the world was somewhere around ..... 12.2 Megawatts.

For solar photovoltaic you are right. There is a solar thermal (mirror) plant in California, SEGS I-IX, rated 355 MW, when the sun is up, about 100 MW averaged over a day, so 0.1 nuke or 10% to be fair. SEGS is also over 90% of the world's solar electric capacity, regardless of technology. On the downside, they still went bankrupt, were bought for pennies on the dollar, by a bunch of utilities that now harvest tax credits from Federal coffers.

Myster X
08-28-05, 01:06 PM
from National Geographic last issue After Oil "Powering the Future"

This is what is will take to light up the Big Apple without fossil fuel

Solar: 74 sq. mi 145,225,714 64" x 32" panels
Wind: 10.6 " 6,800 turbines 1.5 megawatts each
Nuclear: 2 " 4 reactors 1,000 megawatts each

solar is not feasible anytime soon
wind and solar have limited performance

DVD Polizei
08-29-05, 01:24 AM
We might as well harvest Cow farts. They have more energy than all the solar panels in the world.

grundle
08-29-05, 09:06 AM
Be the first person on your block to own a Toshiba mini nuclear power plant.


http://www.mrcranky.com/movies/assaultonprecinct13/86.html

Galena to apply for permit to build nuclear power plant

NO CHARGE: Toshiba to build plant for free; city to fund operation.

The Associated Press

(Published: December 28, 2004)

Galena city officials have approved plans to build a 10-megawatt nuclear power plant there as a test case for providing cheap power to rural communities.

City representatives and Toshiba Corp. officials will draft an application for a license from federal regulators for the small-scale reactor near the Yukon River community. The process could take several years.

The reactor unit would be 50 to 60 feet tall and 6 to 8 feet in diameter. It would be built outside of Alaska and be encased in several tons of concrete not to be opened during its operating life, estimated at 30 years.

The plant, called a battery, would be able to supply the community's electricity for about a quarter of the cost of diesel fuel, according to a U.S. Department of Energy study.

The 4S reactor unit is referred to as a battery because it does not have moving parts. Once installed, its fuel will not need to be replaced as in conventional nuclear reactors.

The Galena City Council directed City Manager Marvin Yoder to "establish a process and timeline leading to evaluations, industrial partners and financial and contractual arrangements necessary to bring the economic and environmental benefits of the 4S to Galena."

The council's resolution directed Yoder to work with the community's Washington, D.C.-based attorney and Toshiba in developing the application to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.

Licensing will be an involved process that will take several years and substantial funding from Toshiba, Yoder said.

Toshiba has offered to install the reactor at Galena free, if the licensing is approved, as a commercial demonstration of the battery in a remote location.

If the technology is approved for use in the United States, Toshiba believes there will be opportunities for sales worldwide and elsewhere in rural Alaska, according to Robert Chaney, a researcher with Science Applications International Corp.

SAIC coordinated the Department of Energy study of long-term energy supply options for Galena, including the Toshiba battery.

Chaney said the energy department study weighed nuclear power against other ways of providing Galena with improved energy, including more efficient diesel generation, a small coal-fired power plant, and wind, solar and hydropower from the nearby Yukon River.

Wind, solar and hydropower were determined not to be practical options for Galena, Chaney told an Alaska Miners Association group in a Dec. 17 briefing on the project.

If the nuclear battery went into operation in 2010, by 2020 it could supply electricity to Galena for 5 to 14 cents a kilowatt hour, assuming the community pays only the operating costs, the analysis showed.

Galena's power now costs 28 cents per kilowatt hour.

The cost could vary depending on the level of security federal regulators require at the site, Chaney said.

The plant would supply far more electricity than Galena now uses but could enable local residents to convert their home heating fuel from expensive oil to more affordable electricity and to operate greenhouses and grow produce year-round, Chaney said.

The risks include the use of liquid sodium as a heat transfer medium and the long-term disposal of the radioactive waste, according to Ron Johnson, a professor of engineering at the University of Alaska Fairbanks, who is working with engineering aspects of the DOE study.

Johnson said small nuclear plants may not be the answer for rural power, regardless of the fate of the Galena experiment.

"If the technology is successfully deployed in Galena, its economic viability in other Alaska villages and elsewhere depends on the actual life cycle costs, which are yet to be quantified," he said.

Alaska miners are interested in the Galena project because if the Nuclear Regulatory Commission approves Toshiba's proposal, larger nuclear batteries could provide power to remote mines.

Otto
08-29-05, 12:23 PM
I thought the only thing spent fuel rods were good for was nuclear weapons. I didn't know you could reuse it. If that's the case we should be doing that. :shrug:
Yep. You basically take the spent rods, dissolve them, and chemically separate the plutonium and uranium. The rest of it you encapsulate in glass and toss it somewhere safe. Yes, the purified plutonium could be used for weapons, but you can also mix it with some enriched uranium to create mixed oxide reactor fuel.

The general method for reprocessing is called "PUREX". Google for it.

But fissionable material is fissionable material. Anything that can be used for weapons can also be used for power generation and vice-versa. Really, all that's involved is mixing up the stuff in different proportions to make it more suitable for various uses. Nothing magical about it.

Tracer Bullet
08-29-05, 12:36 PM
Yep. You basically take the spent rods, dissolve them, and chemically separate the plutonium and uranium. The rest of it you encapsulate in glass and toss it somewhere safe. Yes, the purified plutonium could be used for weapons, but you can also mix it with some enriched uranium to create mixed oxide reactor fuel.

The general method for reprocessing is called "PUREX". Google for it.

http://www.dialcorp.com/images/branding/interact/intpkg_purexliquid_front_pl.gif

I had no idea!

shifrbv
08-29-05, 03:01 PM
I think what's most telling about this article is how the French society works. People making these decisions are scientists and engineers, not just bureaucrats. When you have strictly bureaucrats making the decisions, you have to worry.

Chernobyl was made by bureaucrats. I could see the same thing happening here.

It's not that nuclear power isn't feasible, it's that in the US, I have zero confidence that private companies would be able to manage it properly. Cost-cutting was a major problem with the Chernobyl incident. Every private company in the US would have probably done the same and scimped on materials. It's already done everywhere.

grundle
08-29-05, 06:29 PM
I think what's most telling about this article is how the French society works. People making these decisions are scientists and engineers, not just bureaucrats. When you have strictly bureaucrats making the decisions, you have to worry.

Chernobyl was made by bureaucrats. I could see the same thing happening here.

It's not that nuclear power isn't feasible, it's that in the US, I have zero confidence that private companies would be able to manage it properly. Cost-cutting was a major problem with the Chernobyl incident. Every private company in the US would have probably done the same and scimped on materials. It's already done everywhere.
The Chernobyl plant was designed, built, owned, and operated by a totalitarian dictatorship government, which couldn't be sued, and didn't have to answer to anyone.

DVD Polizei
08-29-05, 06:50 PM
I think what's most telling about this article is how the French society works. People making these decisions are scientists and engineers, not just bureaucrats. When you have strictly bureaucrats making the decisions, you have to worry.

Chernobyl was made by bureaucrats. I could see the same thing happening here.

It's not that nuclear power isn't feasible, it's that in the US, I have zero confidence that private companies would be able to manage it properly. Cost-cutting was a major problem with the Chernobyl incident. Every private company in the US would have probably done the same and scimped on materials. It's already done everywhere.

Well, I would hope that "Russian Skimping" is worse than "American Skimping". Our technology is somewhat better than our Putin friends, and what is low-cost for us, is a luxury in Russia.