And people can't seem to understand why I can't stand the left....

[MartinBlank]

The photo to be noticed is in the right hand column, 8 pics down....Check out the sign behind them.....Caption reads: "John and Kris smack dab in the middle of Harvard Square -- Cambridge, Mass."


http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/eibessential/illustrating_absurdity/gallery_10.guest.html

[Rockmjd23]

I wonder if that is still up? I'm gonna go rip it down.

[Bandoman]

So? Someone posted a stupid sign. There are just as many morans to the right side of the political spectrum.

[Groucho]

There are just as many morans to the right side of the political spectrum.Like people who make blanket statements based on some handmade sign.

[Tracer Bullet]

I don't understand how John Kerry got 48% of the vote last year. Isn't only like 10% of the population left-handed?

[Canadian Bacon]

38% of the population are switch voters

[mikehunt]

http://vikingphoenix.com/news/iraqwar/iwgallery/1_shoot_officers.jpg

[DVD Polizei]

Yeah, because the Right would NEVER intrude on your own rights or behave like a bunch of dumbtards. Just ask Jeb. Oh wait a minute, bad example.

[MartinBlank]

Yeah, because the Right would NEVER intrude on your own rights or behave like a bunch of dumbtards. Just ask Jeb. Oh wait a minute, bad example.


Dumbtard, huh? Is that even a word? Classic example of the public schrool system at work.....tax money well spent, if I do say so myself.

[sfsdfd]

Dumbtard, huh? Is that even a word? Classic example of the public schrool system at work.....
Yup... looks like they fail at imparting a sense of humor, too. "Dumbtard" was a joke. Don't get so testy.

Also, don't impute the views of one member onto the whole group. If you find that a valid conclusion, then shame on you for supporting the assassination of Hugo Chavez - which I can impute to you based on the comments of your co-rightie, Pat Robertson.

- David Stein

[MartinBlank]

Pat Robertson's an evil little gnome.....

[sfsdfd]

Pat Robertson's an evil little gnome.....
Alright. Good. I, a member of the left, think people who advocate fragging of fellow soldiers are bombastic idiots entitled to no respect (though still entitled to their constitutional right to free speech.)

Now can you agree that this thread was unwisely entitled?

- David Stein

[MartinBlank]

Yes sir. As seen in the pic of my initial post, I find it amazing that individuals, who are given the rights that we do, based on the structure of goverment that we have, for some bizarre reason, think that they will still have all the same rights/luxuries if the system were to be completely altered. The best example I can come up with is that of George Soros. He is a socialist, a billionaire socialist who made his great fortune through capitalism....trading futures on the stock markets....he is, in effect THE American Dream....a butt-load of money for very little work.

[Rockmjd23]

I'm actually going to Cambridge tomorrow to meet up with a friend. I hope there's something lame like that to throw tomatoes at.

[sfsdfd]

I'm actually going to Cambridge tomorrow to meet up with a friend. I hope there's something lame like that to throw tomatoes at.

as·sault (e-sôlt)

1) v. The threat or attempt to strike another, whether successful or not, provided the target is aware of the danger. The assaulter must be reasonably capable of carrying through the attack. In some states if the assault is with a deadly weapon (such as sniping with a rifle), the intended victim does not need to know of the peril. Other state laws distinguish between different degrees (first or second) of assault depending on whether there is actual hitting, injury or just a threat. "Aggravated assault" is an attack connected with the commission of another crime, such as beating a clerk during a robbery or a particularly vicious attack.

2) n. the act of committing an assault, as in "there was an assault down on Third Avenue." <b>Assault is both a criminal wrong, for which one may be charged and tried, and civil wrong for which the target may sue for damages due to the assault, including for mental distress.</b>
Feel free to shout loudly at them, curse at them, call them idiots, etc. Hitting them with something physical will get you arrested.

- David Stein

[Rockmjd23]

Feel free to shout loudly at them, curse at them, call them idiots, etc. Hitting them with something physical will get you arrested.

- David Stein
Umm...did you actually click on the link? It's a poster, not people.

[sfsdfd]

Umm...did you actually click on the link? It's a poster, not people.
You throw tomatoes at inanimate objects? That's a new one. Usually, the targets are people.

But in that case, you might be guilty of vandalism. (It's borderline, based on how the state code defines it.) Perhaps more importantly, you would be guilty of being a pompous asshole, so I recommend against it. Again, feel free to shout at the protestors or post your own sign.

However, the most effective tactic - from your perspective - is simply to ignore them. Anything else will draw attention to them. Ask Senator Kerry how, in retrospect, he should have handled the Swift Boat Veterans for Partisanship.

- David Stein

[Thor Simpson]

So why can't you stand the left?

[MartinBlank]

So why can't you stand the left?

Read post #13....that's not it in it's entirety, but it's a good start.

[Rockmjd23]

You throw tomatoes at inanimate objects? That's a new one. Usually, the targets are people.
Yes, I'm really going to throw tomatoes at it :rolleyes: I wouldn't mind ripping it down though.
But in that case, you might be guilty of vandalism. (It's borderline, based on how the state code defines it.)
It's a third-grade level poster held up by masking tape on a kiosk. I think I'll be ok :lol: Once again, did you actually look at the picture in the link?
Perhaps more importantly, you would be guilty of being a pompous asshole
The poster says "Socialism is much better than capitalism, and communism will be a far better world" (nice grammar). Only a pompous asshole would rip that down! :hscratch:

[sfsdfd]

Yes, I'm really going to throw tomatoes at it :rolleyes:
That's why I thought you meant the demonstrators.
I wouldn't mind ripping it down though.
That's still vandalism. It's trivial vandalism, but the cops might arrest you anyway, just to avoid an escalation.
Once again, did you actually look at the picture in the link?
Twice, actually: once while initially reading the original post, and again after your last post.
The poster says "Socialism is much better than capitalism, and communism will be a far better world" (nice grammar). Only a pompous asshole would rip that down! :hscratch:
Yes. Only pompous assholes are intolerant of others' First Amendment rights.

Look - the whole point of the First Amendment is to protect <i>unpopular</i> speech. Popular speech needs no protection, since no one's going to try stopping it.

Some parting thoughts from one of the most eloquent Supreme Court justices of all time:
Persecution for the expression of opinions seems to me perfectly logical. If you have no doubt of your premises or your power and want a certain result with all your heart, you naturally express your wishes in law and sweep away all opposition. To allow opposition by speech seems to indicate that you think the speech impotent, as when a man says that he has squared the circle, or that you do not care wholeheartedly for the result, or that you doubt either your power or your premises. But when men have realized that time has upset many fighting faiths, they may come to believe even more than they believe the very foundations of their own conduct that the ultimate good desired is better reached by free trade in ideas - that the best test of truth is the power of the thought to get itself accepted in the competition of the market, and that truth is the only ground upon which their wishes safely can be carried out. That at any rate is the theory of our Constitution.

It is an experiment, as all life is an experiment. Every year, if not every day, we have to wager our salvation upon some prophecy based upon imperfect knowledge. While that experiment is part of our system, I think that we should be eternally vigilant against attempts to check the expression of opinions that we loathe and believe to be fraught with death, unless they so imminently threaten immediate interference with the lawful and pressing purposes of the law that an immediate check is required to save the country.
- David Stein

[DVD Polizei]

Yes sir. As seen in the pic of my initial post, I find it amazing that individuals, who are given the rights that we do, based on the structure of goverment that we have, for some bizarre reason, think that they will still have all the same rights/luxuries if the system were to be completely altered. The best example I can come up with is that of George Soros. He is a socialist, a billionaire socialist who made his great fortune through capitalism....trading futures on the stock markets....he is, in effect THE American Dream....a butt-load of money for very little work.

Thanks for taking one rare example and bringing out your super-wide brush and painting a feel-good example for every single American.

And just what is your point, Mr. American Dream. You think Capitalism is currently EXCLUSIVELY CAPITALISM?

Think again.

Ever heard of bailouts for corporations? Subsidies? News flash. It's corporate socialism. It keeps the businesses in business, at the expense of the tax payer, while the CEOs still make millions of dollars, and eventually lose thousands of employees later on anyway.

If you want to go completely Capitalistic, then lets start with corporations, refusing to bail them out simply because they had a bad day or made really stupid decisions.

/illustrating_absurdity/gallery_10.guest... ----- illustrating absurdity. Interesting. Seems like both Democrats and Republicans are illustrating absurdity, day by day.

[Rockmjd23]

Yes. Only pompous assholes are intolerant of others' First Amendment rights.

Hmm..If I report this personal attack, wouldn't you be the one it gets reported to? :lol:

[Mr. Salty]

Dumbtard, huh? Is that even a word? Classic example of the public schrool system at work.....tax money well spent, if I do say so myself.
"Schrool" isn't a word either.

[Bandoman]

I think we can all agree that there are ignorant dumbtards (love that word!) on both sides of the political spectrum. sfsdfd is absolutely correct - it's unpopular speech which needs protection, and while I roll my eyes at ridiculous statements such as those contained on the poster in the OP's linked photo, I have absolutely no problem with the right of the dumbtards to say it. Or maybe the OP would rather allow free speech rights only to those who agree with his political views? If so, how un-American.

[mosquitobite]

They have a right to say anything they want. Martin, just remember the more the left align themselves with communism, the less and less we EVER have to worry about them taking back power in this country. ;)

I still wish I knew at what point in our history it became "ok" to say you were a socialist/communist? 50 years ago they'd be in jail...

[VinVega]

They have a right to say anything they want. Martin, just remember the more the left align themselves with communism, the less and less we EVER have to worry about them taking back power in this country. ;)

I still wish I knew at what point in our history it became "ok" to say you were a socialist/communist? 50 years ago they'd be in jail...
Actually, it was ok for a while, then we got into a frenzied panic after the 2nd World War and it became taboo. Now we're back to normal, where Communists can say they're communists without being black listed, but just by their radical views, they are once again, simply a fringe group of society.

[Bandoman]

I still wish I knew at what point in our history it became "ok" to say you were a socialist/communist? 50 years ago they'd be in jail...

Surely you're not suggesting that it should be illegal, or that the McCarthy era was a good thing???

[sfsdfd]

Hmm..If I report this personal attack, wouldn't you be the one it gets reported to? :lol:
Yeah, and then I'd have to have an admin suspend me. :D

I didn't call you a pompous asshole. I wouldn't, because it's not what I do. I was advising you <i>not</i> to be a pompous asshole. Heh... you know, I <i>could</i> charge you for my professional advice - my skills are very valuable... ;)

- David Stein

[Iron Chef]

Do you still live with your mom?

[LiquidSky]

So? Someone posted a stupid sign. There are just as many morans to the right side of the political spectrum.

Agreed. There are crazy folks on each side.

[Thor Simpson]

Agreed. There are crazy folks on each side.
Wait a minute- you're telling me there are <i>people</i> on the other side of this padded wall? -eek-

[wendersfan]

It's threads like this that are the reason I spend less and less time here these days.

Wow, golly gee. Some people on the left still think that we should have a government that has complete control over the economy. Some people on the right still think that the races shouldn't be allowed to intermingle. Guess what? Neither of those facts should be taken as proof that (to pick two names out of a hat) Barney Frank and Orrin Hatch aren't two excellent public servants that have the best interests of their constituents, and the nation, at heart. Labeling everyone that disagrees with you with some sort of insulting epithet just makes bthe labeler look like a fool.

[LiquidSky]

Wait a minute- you're telling me there are <i>people</i> on the other side of this padded wall? -eek-

:lol:

http://tinypic.com/b5jmdh.jpg

[CRM114]

There are nuts on the left who would like us to be Socialists. There are nuts on the right who would like us to be a theocracy. What the hell is the problem?

Do I need to start a thread stating that I can't stand the right because of the religiosos and jesus freaks? No, thats assumed and obvious.

[Tracer Bullet]

It's threads like this that are the reason I spend less and less time here these days.

Wow, golly gee. Some people on the left still think that we should have a government that has complete control over the economy. Some people on the right still think that the races shouldn't be allowed to intermingle. Guess what? Neither of those facts should be taken as proof that (to pick two names out of a hat) Barney Frank and Orrin Hatch aren't two excellent public servants that have the best interests of their constituents, and the nation, at heart. Labeling everyone that disagrees with you with some sort of insulting epithet just makes bthe labeler look like a fool.

:thumbsup:

I have a friend like the OP, only he's a liberal. Talking politics with is tiresome. I've stopped trying to convince him that all Republicans are not baby-eating demons.

[grundle]

I don't understand how John Kerry got 48% of the vote last year. Isn't only like 10% of the population left-handed?
I am left handed.

I voted in every major election of the last 15 years.

And I hever never voted for a Democrat.

[Bandoman]

...all Republicans are not baby-eating demons.

Okay, I'll admit that not all of them are.

;)

[grundle]

If you want to go completely Capitalistic, then lets start with corporations, refusing to bail them out simply because they had a bad day or made really stupid decisions.

I second that motion!

[Tracer Bullet]

I am left handed.

I voted in every major election of the last 15 years.

And I hever never voted for a Democrat.

:lol:

I got one!

;)

[Thor Simpson]

I am left handed.

I voted in every major election of the last 15 years.

And I hever never voted for a Democrat.
Yeah, but one of these days you'll figure out how those punch card things work and get it right.

[Tracer Bullet]

Yeah, but one of these days you'll figure out how those punch card things work and get it right.

:mad:

Sinistrophobia- the last acceptable prejudice.

[Bandoman]

:mad:

Sinistrophobia- the last acceptable prejudice.

That's so gauche.

[Goldblum]

That's why I thought you meant the demonstrators.

That's still vandalism. It's trivial vandalism, but the cops might arrest you anyway, just to avoid an escalation.

Twice, actually: once while initially reading the original post, and again after your last post.

Yes. Only pompous assholes are intolerant of others' First Amendment rights.

Look - the whole point of the First Amendment is to protect <i>unpopular</i> speech. Popular speech needs no protection, since no one's going to try stopping it.

Some parting thoughts from one of the most eloquent Supreme Court justices of all time:

- David Stein

Now, who was it that doesn't have a sense of humor again? :p

[sfsdfd]

Now, who was it that doesn't have a sense of humor again? :p
:lol: That crossed my mind as I was writing it. Thought it might move the thread into a more interesting direction. Guess it was a lost cause. ;)

- David Stein

[island007]

It is a poster put up by pompous asshole 'dumbtards' to appease other pompous asshole 'dumbtards'.

Forget about it and Move-On.

[Canadian Bacon]

dumbtard- isn't that a Bushism?

-wink-

[Jason]

The photo to be noticed is in the right hand column, 8 pics down....Check out the sign behind them.....Caption reads: "John and Kris smack dab in the middle of Harvard Square -- Cambridge, Mass."


http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/eibessential/illustrating_absurdity/gallery_10.guest.html

HOLY FUCKING SHIT!!! Somebody has a different opinion than you do! Call out the national guard. Alert Sean Hannity!

[MartinBlank]

HOLY FUCKING SHIT!!! Somebody has a different opinion than you do! Call out the national guard. Alert Sean Hannity!

For the record....yes, I am conservative...but I'm not one of the religious ones....having faith is cool, but the organization thereof, I have a BIG problem with.

Okay, a difference of opinion is one this, that's cool, I completely understand that, but, and this is a BIG but, I, cannot, for the life of me, wrap my head around this sort of mentality. Given the fact that most Communist revolts throughout history were started by the offspring of the affluent, It makes sense..."I grew up with everthing I've ever needed, why shouldn't everyone?....that and I wanna hang out and smoke pot." Yes, we all love the 1st Amendment, that goes without saying, but, like I stated earlier, it is the structure or our country that allows ALL of us to even have something called the Bill of Rights. Don't get me wrong, I've had many a discussion about the issue...."You do know that there's enough money in the world for everyone to have $3 million..." I don't doubt that in the least....but, and be honest, what is learned when something is just handed to you? My two favorite words in the english language are Personal Responsibility, that's basically where I stand on the issue.....DO for yourself, DO NOT expect anyone else to do for you.

That's my issue.....why does it seem even plausible to "change horses midstream" and have the same outcome? "Okay....we'll start out as Capitalist....and once we have a strong economy, we'll switch over to Communist/Socialist and redistribute that wealth....everything will continue to work the same as it did, right?"

[DVD Polizei]

The Bill Of Rights isn't protecting you or I.

The threat of civil unrest, violence, and the removal of our political leaders, is. :D

DO for yourself. DO NOT expect anyone else to do it for you.

That sounds honorable. However, you seem to think that the current situation in the US employment and political sector has to do with doing things on your own? You might want to re-check the situation. You don't get into political office on your own. That's a start. Second, you rarely get a job these days without "networking" which is not exactly "doing it on your own" if you ask me. Third, how can the poor help themselves when they are...by definition...poor.

I'd recommend researching the last 10 years of the financial shifts of economic classes, and the widening gaps it appears to have created.

In theory, doing things on your own sounds great. Hell, it even sounds Pioneer-ish. But it's far from the reality today. Today, you need more than just yourself and your ideals to make it in this world. Sometimes, another person may have to help you achieve your goals.

[DodgingCars]

And people can't seem to understand why I can't stand arrogant partisanship.
http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=435434

[Lastdaysofrain]

That sign is really threatening to your way of life. Good idea ripping it down, before the word gets out.

[Rockmjd23]

That sign is really threatening to your way of life. Good idea ripping it down, before the word gets out.
Well, now we know who made it :thumbsup:

[DarkestPhoenix]

I think the one good thing about McCarthyism is that you don't have people that are treasonous to the US Government. I DO think that should be illegal. Why should naturalised citizens have to swear to defend the US Government and Constitution, but those born here feel they're special enough they don't have to? You don't like this system of Government, you should not be living here. Period.

[Tracer Bullet]

I think the one good thing about McCarthyism is that you don't have people that are treasonous to the US Government. I DO think that should be illegal. Why should naturalised citizens have to swear to defend the US Government and Constitution, but those born here feel they're special enough they don't have to? You don't like this system of Government, you should not be living here. Period.

I think one good thing about martial law is the lack of street crime!

[GreenMonkey]

Persecution for the expression of opinions seems to me perfectly logical. If you have no doubt of your premises or your power and want a certain result with all your heart, you naturally express your wishes in law and sweep away all opposition. To allow opposition by speech seems to indicate that you think the speech impotent, as when a man says that he has squared the circle, or that you do not care wholeheartedly for the result, or that you doubt either your power or your premises. But when men have realized that time has upset many fighting faiths, they may come to believe even more than they believe the very foundations of their own conduct that the ultimate good desired is better reached by free trade in ideas - that the best test of truth is the power of the thought to get itself accepted in the competition of the market, and that truth is the only ground upon which their wishes safely can be carried out. That at any rate is the theory of our Constitution.

It is an experiment, as all life is an experiment. Every year, if not every day, we have to wager our salvation upon some prophecy based upon imperfect knowledge. While that experiment is part of our system, I think that we should be eternally vigilant against attempts to check the expression of opinions that we loathe and believe to be fraught with death, unless they so imminently threaten immediate interference with the lawful and pressing purposes of the law that an immediate check is required to save the country.


That was a great quote I hadn't read before, thanks for posting it! I like!

Anybody who starts spitting venom about the left or the right, or "liberals" or "conservatives", I immediately know I will just get some twisted perception of the truth. Anybody with the "liberals hate America" or "republicans are fascists" are questionable IMO.

I don't like the neo-cons at all, and I'm definitely not a fan of most of the conservative Republican viewpoints, but that doesn't mean I "can't stand" them. Some of them, yes. Not all.

Like I said in the thread about "the left love Islamic terrorists" or whatever it was called, crazies like this have very little to do with the real Democratic left. I'll edit my post from that thread to apply to this one:


Leftists that think it's ok to kill your fellow troops are about as close to the normal liberal left as George W.'s level of authoritarian militarism is to Stalin or Hitler.


AS IN, BIG FUCKING DIFFERENCE.

It's a matter of extremism. People can't seem to understand that hating a few wacko extremist types doesn't justify hating 50% of Americans. It would be like me hating all righties because I hate people like Jerry Falwell. Jerry Falwell != typical Republican (I certainly hope that's true).

[hahn]

I think one good thing about martial law is the lack of street crime!

And the one good thing about having a tyrannical dictatorship is that you don't have treasonous people in the government. After all, if you execute all the ones you are suspicious of, even the ones who might betray you will fall in line. Real quick.



-ohbfrank-@DP's post...
Wow.

[MartinBlank]

You don't like this system of Government, you should not be living here. Period.

:thumbsup:

[Gallant Pig]

:thumbsup:

I like this system of government, but that's insane to think like that. You almost sound as extreme as the other side which you seem to loathe. I guess that makes sense though.

[Gallant Pig]

I think if the subject if this thread had been "extreme left", it would have been fairer. It's kinda ironic the complaint considering the site that was posted has pics of the other side being equally obnoxious.

I think the extremes on both sides are equally as guilty as having tunnel vision and would want neither to run the country.

[General Zod]

You don't like this system of Government, you should not be living here. Period.
:up: Speaking of which, Barbara Steisand hasn't moved out the country yet like she promised to. Just when I think some people are starting to figure this out..

I go one further and say that if you are born in this country you should be required to serve in the military for at least a minimum of 2 years. I, for one, would at least like to know the people bitching about everything have at least lifted a finger in support of their country at one time or another.

[Gallant Pig]

Do you guys think we should kick out criminals as well? Because if I had to choose between a whiney liberal who bitches about the government but has a clean record and a flag waving patriotic person who has gotten a few DUIs, I'd kick out the drunk bastard in a Split Second.

Just wondering :)

[General Zod]

Do you guys think we should kick out criminals as well? Because if I had to choose between a whiney liberal who bitches about the government but has a clean record and a flag waving patriotic person who has gotten a few DUIs, I'd kick out the drunk bastard in a Split Second.

Just wondering :)
You wouldn't be attempting to blur "If you don't like it here you should leave" with "We should kick out people we don't like" - are you? Seems like it. But I know you wouldn't do that... ;)

Given your bizarre scenario, however, i'd kick out the drunk too.

[Gallant Pig]

If you don't like it here you should leave is a lot softer than You don't like this system of Government, you should not be living here. Period. but I guess if you think it's the same thing, that's cool. ;) Sorry, the former sounded like you guys want to round them up and kick them up, like some sort of fascist thought police or something. The latter I've heard plenty, but it sounds pretty weak to me. Disagreement between people is what makes this country cool. Different ideas, we can all express them, we can influence each other in positive ways (hopefully). I dislike the extremes on both sides because neither seems capable of seeing the other side's reasoning.

[Josh H]

All I can do is just -rolleyes- to some of these comments.

This country was founded with the ideal of not letting the government become tyrannical and people having free reign to protest and complain about their government. Thus wanting people that are not happy with the government to leave is fucking absurd and goes against the very ideals of the country you people are claiming to love.


And mandatory military service is pointless as well, and far and away the first sign of a tyrannical government. And thus again, against the ideal the country was founded on. Not to mention we don't need that many people in the military, especially if we'd quit invading other countries for no solid reasons.

[Brain Stew]

I go one further and say that if you are born in this country you should be required to serve in the military for at least a minimum of 2 years. I, for one, would at least like to know the people bitching about everything have at least lifted a finger in support of their country at one time or another.
So, how was your service in the military?

[Bandoman]

I think the one good thing about McCarthyism is that you don't have people that are treasonous to the US Government. I DO think that should be illegal.

Last I checked, treason is illegal.

You don't like this system of Government, you should not be living here. Period.

This "love or leave it" mentality is simple-minded. Our system of government has evolved and grown over the last two centuries as a natural product of a changing society. There will always be those who propose immediate dramatic change, and those who fear any change at all: neither extreme is advisable.

We don't kick people out of the coutry for having thoughts and beliefs that don't agree with ours, even if they believe that the very basis of our government is wrong, or immoral, or whatever. As long as they don't use any ilegal means to try to change our government, what's the problem?

[Brain Stew]

Last I checked, treason is illegal.
I think he is looking at a different definition of treason, one where simply not supporting the way things are done is treasonous.

Is destroying government property in order to overthrow the government treasonous? Yes.
Is simply being a communist treasonous? No.

Once a self-proclaimed communist destroys something or takes a life of a government official or threatens to do so for the express intent of government destruction they are treasonous. Otherwise, no they are not.

As David Stein can tell you, one of the first things they teach you in law school is that you don't prosecute the person, but the actions. (i.e. You don't try to prosecute Tony Soprano just because he wears flashy clothes and hangs out with intimidating guys and seems like a mobster. You prosecute him because of a crime he committed; an action not just simply "being.")

[Bandoman]

Traitor!

[DodgingCars]

Last I checked, treason is illegal.



This "love or leave it" mentality is simple-minded. Our system of government has evolved and grown over the last two centuries as a natural product of a changing society. There will always be those who propose immediate dramatic change, and those who fear any change at all: neither extreme is advisable.

We don't kick people out of the coutry for having thoughts and beliefs that don't agree with ours, even if they believe that the very basis of our government is wrong, or immoral, or whatever. As long as they don't use any ilegal means to try to change our government, what's the problem?

Sounds like these conservatives should be leaving then, right? They don't like the welfare state. Time to go!

[General Zod]

So, how was your service in the military?
Overall I found it a rewarding experience. I didn't get the opportunity to go to as many places as I had hoped, but i'm glad I did it. I met all sorts of great people and feel like I did my part for the country. I was even in the reserves for a while afterwards..

We don't kick people out of the coutry for having thoughts and beliefs that don't agree with ours, even if they believe that the very basis of our government is wrong, or immoral, or whatever. As long as they don't use any ilegal means to try to change our government, what's the problem?
Again, nobody has advocated kicking anyone out. I certainly haven't. It's more of a suggestion - what's the problem with that?

[WCChiCubsFan]

You don't like this system of Government, you should not be living here. Period.Every Fourth of July I'm thankful that our founding fathers certainly had more backbone and personal fortitude then the “love it or leave it” cowards.I go one further and say that if you are born in this country you should be required to serve in the military for at least a minimum of 2 years. I, for one, would at least like to know the people bitching about everything have at least lifted a finger in support of their country at one time or another.Of course there are other ways to support the country besides being in the military.

Another thing concerning mandatory service, nothing would do more harm to the military then having a bunch of people who don't want to be there in the first place.

[JasonF]

:up: Speaking of which, Barbara Steisand hasn't moved out the country yet like she promised to. Just when I think some people are starting to figure this out..

There's a reason Streisand and other's on the left haven't moved out of the U.S. It's because as bad as Bush's domestic policy is, his foreign policy is a lot worse.

:rimshot:

[Josh H]

Again, nobody has advocated kicking anyone out. I certainly haven't. It's more of a suggestion - what's the problem with that?

Again, the country was founded on free speech, ESPECIALLY in regards to being able to criticize the government.

So it sounds like you don't love the country as a whole, only the parts of its foundations that fit your conservative beliefs.

[Bandoman]

Again, nobody has advocated kicking anyone out. I certainly haven't. It's more of a suggestion - what's the problem with that?


I guess I would never think of suggesting to you that if you don't like living in a country where everyone is free to express his or her views, no matter how unpopular, that you move somewhere else. *shrug*

[JMLEWIS1]

The OP is proof that Limbaugh (and his counterparts) has not been good for this country. From his limbaughisms to the fact that he was perusing the limbaugh club gitmo photo gallery.

So many people don't think for themselves anymore. They don't ponder the opinions of others, they listen to true hate mongers like Limbaugh and regurgitate what they hear to anyone who will listen to them. They don't consider that what they have been told could be a huge distortion or that there may be legitmate reasons for why people are critical of Republican views.

It really is sad.... :(

[CRM114]

Limbaugh spent 8 years decrying what the Clinton liberals were doing to the country. And now that the GOP has controlled the government for quite some time, Limbaugh is STILL decrying what the Clinton liberals are doing to the country. Anyone capable of independent thought can see through Limbaugh and his administration talking-point shtick. If not, it is really quite sad. Limbaugh has the opportunity to defend the administration while not being owned by it. He doesn't though - he defends and promotes everything the administration tells him to and apparently is incapable of coming to his own conclusions.

The four retired generals on Meet the Press were refreshing this morning. Some defended the war yet were intelligent enough to see its shortcoming and the massive faults in judgement the war was founded on.

[Groucho]

So many people don't think for themselves anymore. They don't ponder the opinions of others, they listen to true hate mongers like Limbaugh and regurgitate what they hear to anyone who will listen to them.Ditto!

[Canadian Bacon]

someone should post this :notrolls:

it certainly fits this thread :rolleyes:

[General Zod]

So many people don't think for themselves anymore. They don't ponder the opinions of others, they listen to true hate mongers like Limbaugh and regurgitate what they hear to anyone who will listen to them. They don't consider that what they have been told could be a huge distortion or that there may be legitmate reasons for why people are critical of Republican views.
:lol: Says the side the regurgitates everything Michael Moore tells them whether it's true or not. Pot meet kettle.

[Brain Stew]

I have the feeling that this thread is about to turn into a flame war.

[RMSpuhler]

I have the feeling that this thread is about to turn into a flame war.

http://www.shirtpropaganda.com/images/cripplefight-tbn2.jpg

RS

[CRM114]

:lol: Says the side the regurgitates everything Michael Moore tells them whether it's true or not. Pot meet kettle.

How so? Michael Moore writes books and makes films. He isn't on the radio 4 hours a day, 5 days a week spewing venom. The left doesn't have people that carry the baton like Limbaugh and Hannity day after day after day...

[Tracer Bullet]

How so? Michael Moore writes books and makes films. He isn't on the radio 4 hours a day, 5 days a week spewing venom. The left doesn't have people that carry the baton like Limbaugh and Hannity day after day after day...

Come on, you can come back with a better argument than "our psychos are less prolific than your psychos!" ;)

[Draven]

I go one further and say that if you are born in this country you should be required to serve in the military for at least a minimum of 2 years. I, for one, would at least like to know the people bitching about everything have at least lifted a finger in support of their country at one time or another.

I can tell you right now that, if it was required, I'd do it (I'm a big believer in following the rules.) However, I'd still bitch about the things I bitch about.

What I think is hilarious is that you seem to indicate that serving the country gives you the right to complain, but you wouldn't agree with the complaints than either, so what's the point of serving?

Also, and here's what really blows my mind, people STILL believe that "supporting the troops" goes hand in hand with "supporting the administration." The military, which does what it's told, is not a policy-maker. They go where they're told, they shoot who they're told to shoot. I applaud and support those who serve. I do NOT applaud and support the administration that told them who to shoot.

Is that so hard to understand?

[General Zod]

I can tell you right now that, if it was required, I'd do it (I'm a big believer in following the rules.) However, I'd still bitch about the things I bitch about.

What I think is hilarious is that you seem to indicate that serving the country gives you the right to complain, but you wouldn't agree with the complaints than either, so what's the point of serving?

Also, and here's what really blows my mind, people STILL believe that "supporting the troops" goes hand in hand with "supporting the administration." The military, which does what it's told, is not a policy-maker. They go where they're told, they shoot who they're told to shoot. I applaud and support those who serve. I do NOT applaud and support the administration that told them who to shoot.

Is that so hard to understand?
It is when you see people protesting soldiers as they come back from Iraq, or go into recruiting centers and make a big stink. Those are direct attacks on the military, and not on policy. Let me say that again so it sinks in. Those are direct attacks on the military, and not on policy. Now do you understand? When the left's actions match their words, i'll believe them. Until then - it's all hot air.

I'm willing to conceed that it's probably a small percentage of the left doing those types of things, but i've NEVER seen a prominant member of the left denounce those types of actions, and ask people to stop.

What I think is hilarious is that you seem to indicate that serving the country gives you the right to complain, but you wouldn't agree with the complaints than either, so what's the point of serving?
It doesn't matter if I agree with complaints or not. I respect people's right to express themselves as long as they do it non-violently. So, even though i've posted that I personally think Cindy Sheehan is a complete nut-bag, I support her exercising her free speech. However, if you look at countries like Israel that make serving in the military mandatory - what you see is much bigger support internally for the country. Everyone feels like they have done their part, and there is a togetherness. It's something that this country is severely lacking and in my opinion will leads to our ultimate demise.

[Brain Stew]

However, if you look at countries like Israel that make serving in the military mandatory - what you see is much bigger support internally for the country. Everyone feels like they have done their part, and there is a togetherness. It's something that this country is severely lacking and in my opinion will leads to our ultimate demise.
They also have a lot of shit blowing up there.

[JMLEWIS1]

:lol: Says the side the regurgitates everything Michael Moore tells them whether it's true or not. Pot meet kettle.

The fact that you see it as two "sides" is kind of the point. This isn't a football game or some sort of good V evil battle. If we're all honest, most of us are somewhere in the middle of the political spectrum. While I do consider myself pretty liberal, I definitely have some conservative views.

I'm not defending Michael Moore, in fact you can throw the folks that get mesmerized by Moore into the same group of dittoheads I was referring to, it's all the same.

My point is that you have these people with strong personalities and strong opinions on air telling everyone the way it is and no one take a minute to think that these people might have their own agendas.

Whether from the left or the right, I think it is a phenomenon that is hurting the political discourse in this country.

[WCChiCubsFan]

However, if you look at countries like Israel that make serving in the military mandatory - what you see is much bigger support internally for the country. Everyone feels like they have done their part, and there is a togetherness. It's something that this country is severely lacking and in my opinion will leads to our ultimate demise.I think this is a rather uneducated view of the situation in Israel.

The two strongest influences that create this so called "togetherness" are the fact that the vast majority of the population is of the same faith and the overwhelming "us against them" atmosphere in which the country exists.

Since the faith point is obvious I will not bother to comment on that one.

As for the “us against them” atmosphere nothing binds a populace together more then the belief that everyone is out to get them and if they don’t stick together they won’t survive.

Even with this two strong influences that help to produce a common bind in the populace, Israel is like every other country and has its’ share of internal strife.

[MartinBlank]

The OP is proof that Limbaugh (and his counterparts) has not been good for this country. From his limbaughisms to the fact that he was perusing the limbaugh club gitmo photo gallery.

So many people don't think for themselves anymore. They don't ponder the opinions of others, they listen to true hate mongers like Limbaugh and regurgitate what they hear to anyone who will listen to them. They don't consider that what they have been told could be a huge distortion or that there may be legitmate reasons for why people are critical of Republican views.

It really is sad.... :(



....I do ponder the opinions of other....the ONLY point I was tryin to make was the fact that I cannot, for the life of me, understand the individual who stands behind the 1st Amendment touting their views that are totally contradictory to that of a democratic society. "It's my 1st Amentment Right to disagree with the form or goverment that we have...so, we should totally revamp the system, even though this one's worked for 200+ years!!!" Yes, that is true, one does have the right to piss and moan, BUT, if the form of govenment were any differerent, you WOULD NOT have the 1st Amendment backing up your speech. And sorry for being such a hate monger..... :rolleyes:

[Bandoman]

"It's my 1st Amentment Right to disagree with the form or goverment that we have...so, we should totally revamp the system, even though this one's worked for 200+ years!!!"

Yep - anyone has the right to say this.

Yes, that is true, one does have the right to piss and moan, BUT, if the form of govenment were any differerent, you WOULD NOT have the 1st Amendment backing up your speech.

Yep - and that's why our present system will endure.

[NCMojo]

Hey Martin... under the category of "turnabout is fair play":

http://sf.indymedia.org/uploads/theprinceofbombs.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v189/plastic_turkeys/crawford012.jpg

http://www.dailytidings.com/2003/news0329/032903n1.jpg

And of course, our old favorite:

http://images.indymedia.org/imc/vancouver/protestormoron.jpg

[General Zod]

I think this is a rather uneducated view of the situation in Israel.

The two strongest influences that create this so called "togetherness" are the fact that the vast majority of the population is of the same faith and the overwhelming "us against them" atmosphere in which the country exists.

Since the faith point is obvious I will not bother to comment on that one.

As for the “us against them” atmosphere nothing binds a populace together more then the belief that everyone is out to get them and if they don’t stick together they won’t survive.

Even with this two strong influences that help to produce a common bind in the populace, Israel is like every other country and has its’ share of internal strife.
That does have alot to do with what is going on in Israel, but having been there and having family there who have served I can tell you that they feel a closer connection to their country because they have served. You can doubt that if you want, or not consider it a major factor, but that's what they have told me. It makes sense to me. But then again, i'm apparently "uneducated" so what do I know.

Mojo: :lol: That last picture is still priceless.

[Chew]

The left doesn't have people that carry the baton like Limbaugh and Hannity day after day after day...

Air America doesn't count?

[Josh H]

I'm willing to conceed that it's probably a small percentage of the left doing those types of things, but i've NEVER seen a prominant member of the left denounce those types of actions, and ask people to stop.


Because they respect people's first amendment rights and don't ask them to stop expressing them even if they disagree vehmently with what they are saying.

[Thor Simpson]

Air America doesn't count?
Not usually.

[hahn]

However, if you look at countries like Israel that make serving in the military mandatory - what you see is much bigger support internally for the country. Everyone feels like they have done their part, and there is a togetherness. It's something that this country is severely lacking and in my opinion will leads to our ultimate demise.

Demise?? That's a bit overly dramatic, don't you think? Plus, what you said in the first sentence is one of the big problems I have with hard-core conservatives like yourself. It was probably an unintentional (but revealing) slip-up, but you ACTUALLY believe that those who are on the left do not support the "country". No. We do not support this administration. Big difference.

[mosquitobite]

Because they respect people's first amendment rights and don't ask them to stop expressing them even if they disagree vehmently with what they are saying.

rotfl

So Santorum, Robertson, Lott et all are A OK to say whatever they want, eh?

[chowderhead]

rotfl

So Santorum, Robertson, Lott et all are A OK to say whatever they want, eh?
absolutely. They have every right to say whatever comes to their heads. That doesn't mean that they are not responsible for what they say either politically or morally. The fact that a so-called Christian minister is willing to advocate political assassination and murder shows me how morally bankrupt Pat Robertson is. He has every right to his opinion unless that opinion incites violence or poses a national security risk(i,e. divulging national secrets). Other than that, I have a right to say he is an asshat.

Santorum has every right to say that women should not work outside of the home, but I have a right to say he is a moron and the people of Pennsylvania will have a right to judge him and vote to keep him in office or not.

One has freedom of speech but not freedom FROM speech. That is what makes America great.

[General Zod]

Right you are chowderhead, and what you may or may not have noticed is how quickly the whitehouse announced they did not support his comments. That's exactly the point i'm trying to make. When people verbally assault military members on their way out of hospitals (this is supporting the military, I guess) you don't see anyone on the left distancing themselves or saying they don't support that type of action. So that's why i'm saying to the left please don't say you support the military but at the same not speaking out when people who claim to be on your side take actions like this.

[chowderhead]

Right you are chowderhead, and what you may or may not have noticed is how quickly the whitehouse announced they did not support his comments. That's exactly the point i'm trying to make. When people verbally assault military members on their way out of hospitals (this is supporting the military, I guess) you don't see anyone on the left distancing themselves or saying they don't support that type of action. So that's why i'm saying to the left please don't say you support the military but at the same not speaking out when people who claim to be on your side take actions like this.

You have fringe elements on both sides. I don't need the GWB administration to denounce Eric Rudolph, the abortion clinic bomber or Fred Phelps and his god hates f*gs brigade. They are fringe elements. I resent that notion that if we don't support the war in Iraq that somehow we do not supporting the troops. The right does not have a monopoly on supporting the troops. I support the troops, but I disagree with this administration. The soliders have sacrificed their lives so we can sit here typing away freely.
Anyway, I truly believe that the vast vast majority of people both conservatives, rightwing to liberal, etc, love this country but just see things differently in how best to move forward.

Edit to add:
yes, I found the links to the protesters at the VA hospitals though the news sources are a bit suspect. In my opinion they are wrong but they have a right to their opinions. This would go along with Fred Phelps and his group protesting at soldier's funerals because god hates f*gs (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050828/ap_on_re_us/soldier_funeral_protests)

[GreenMonkey]

absolutely. They have every right to say whatever comes to their heads. That doesn't mean that they are not responsible for what they say either politically or morally. The fact that a so-called Christian minister is willing to advocate political assassination and murder shows me how morally bankrupt Pat Robertson is. He has every right to his opinion unless that opinion incites violence or poses a national security risk(i,e. divulging national secrets). Other than that, I have a right to say he is an asshat.

Santorum has every right to say that women should not work outside of the home, but I have a right to say he is a moron and the people of Pennsylvania will have a right to judge him and vote to keep him in office or not.

One has freedom of speech but not freedom FROM speech. That is what makes America great

:up:

General Zod - You're seeing this issue unevenly. Bush doesn't come out and speak out against all the crazy fringe people on the Right (like the anti-gay people protesting the soldiers' funerals in the story chowderhead posted above). Nor does he come out and speak out against pyschos blowing up abortion clinics, etc. He doesn't have to speak out against all the crazy Righties any more than the Dems need to speak out against the crazy lefties.

You don't need to speak out against all the crazies. They're CRAZY :wacko:

[Josh H]

rotfl

So Santorum, Robertson, Lott et all are A OK to say whatever they want, eh?

Absolutely. Everyone is free to say whatever they want. Of course, I'm free to think they're morons for saying it. But they are free to say it and I'll never tell them to stop, to leave the country if they don't like it etc.

[hahn]

rotfl

So Santorum, Robertson, Lott et all are A OK to say whatever they want, eh?

Have you ever heard any of us liberals on this board propose that they leave the country?

What makes me crazy is how conservatives make the leap from liberals hating this administration to hating this country. No matter how many times you point out the complete lack of logic of this, they persist in repeating how much liberals hate this country. :hairpull:

[hahn]

Right you are chowderhead, and what you may or may not have noticed is how quickly the whitehouse announced they did not support his comments. That's exactly the point i'm trying to make. When people verbally assault military members on their way out of hospitals (this is supporting the military, I guess) you don't see anyone on the left distancing themselves or saying they don't support that type of action. So that's why i'm saying to the left please don't say you support the military but at the same not speaking out when people who claim to be on your side take actions like this.

When the one time such an incident was reported as news, I was against it and said so. And anyways, why do we need to prove to you we are not like these people? Have you seen a post here that demands that you denounce Pat Robertson otherwise you must be just like him - a deluded religious extremist?

[MartinBlank]

hey hahn...relating to your sig about W and Cardoso...... http://www.snopes.com/quotes/brazil.htm

[Groucho]

CardosOWNED!

[hahn]

hey hahn...relating to your sig about W and Cardoso...... http://www.snopes.com/quotes/brazil.htm

You're about a year and half behind.

[Draven]

You're about a year and half behind.

Eh, he's new.

I hope one day we'll be able to understand why he can't stand the left. I know it's really been bothering me.

[wendersfan]

I hope one day we'll be able to understand why he can't stand the left. I know it's really been bothering me.I've even lost some sleep over it recently. :lol:

[hahn]

I thought it was because we're all communists, bent on the destruction of democracy and freedom? :hscratch:

Or maybe it's because we're intelligent and we're smug about it. ;)

[bhk]

Two reasons why many on the left get on my nerves:
1. They act like know-it-alls and when proven wrong give condescending remarks.
2. Arrogance.

[Groucho]

bhk is a leftist?!? ;)

[hahn]

Two reasons why many on the left get on my nerves:
1. They act like know-it-alls and when proven wrong give condescending remarks.
2. Arrogance.

Psst...bhk, #2 is saying the same thing as #1. I guess that makes me a know-it-all...and condescending...and arrogant. Wow, guess I proved you to be correct.

Some of you on the right make it so easy to be condescending. I'll say it: on average, we're a HELL of a lot smarter than you and we know it. ;) Sorry if that irritates you. :shrug:

[bhk]

I want to say I don't like arrogant people regardless of politics.

One of the reasons I didn't go into academic medicine.

bhk is a leftist?!? ;)

My secret has been let out.

[General Zod]

Some of you on the right make it so easy to be condescending. I'll say it: on average, we're a HELL of a lot smarter than you and we know it. ;) Sorry if that irritates you. :shrug:
:lol: I'm laughing at the superior intellect. Only incredible intelligent people can lose an incumbent election, a re-election to one of the most unpopular presidents in history, and lose house/senate seats along the way with no signs of it stopping. Golly, I wish we were as smart as you ;)

[hahn]

:lol: I'm laughing at the superior intellect. Only incredible intelligent people can lose an incumbent election, a re-election to one of the most unpopular presidents in history, and lose house/senate seats along the way with no signs of it stopping. Golly, I wish we were as smart as you ;)

That you think that intelligence determines the outcome of an election OR that the outcome of an election proves intelligence, only supports my point. Think about it. Don't hurt yourself. ;)

[wendersfan]

:lol: I'm laughing at the superior intellect. Only incredible intelligent people can lose an incumbent election, a re-election to one of the most unpopular presidents in history, and lose house/senate seats along the way with no signs of it stopping. Golly, I wish we were as smart as you ;)
I am, in turn, consistently amused and disheartened by the Democrats approach to trying to win voters by insulting their intelligence.

:lol: :( -ohbfrank- :shrug:

[hahn]

I am, in turn, consistently amused and disheartened by the Democrats approach to trying to win voters by insulting their intelligence.

:lol: :( -ohbfrank- :shrug:

I'm not trying to win voters. And I'm not a Democrat. :)

[nemein]

I'll say it: on average, we're a HELL of a lot smarter than you and we know it.

rotfl -ohbfrank-

[wendersfan]

And I'm not a Democrat. :)Well, I am. :)

[VinVega]

This thread could be one for the books kids. :lol:

[VinVega]

Well, I am. :)
:wave: Me too. Lets go team. Please stop sucking! :banana:

[Tommy Ceez]

What angers me about the sign in the OP is the clunky sentence structure, and the fact the the designers could make a 3x6 sign with big orange lettering so damn boring



That you think that intelligence determines the outcome of an election OR that the outcome of an election proves intelligence, only supports my point. Think about it. Don't hurt yourself. ;)


But an intelligent political party would figure out WHAT DOES win elections and DO THOSE THINGS

[wendersfan]

But an intelligent political party would figure out WHAT DOES win elections and DO THOSE THINGSThe Democrats keep trying, but President Bush's cuts in research and science funding has made it difficult to perfect those Bill Clinton clones they're working on... ;)

[bhk]

Psst...bhk, #2 is saying the same thing as #1

Not necessarily. A person can be 100% correct, not act like a know-it-all, and still be arrogant.