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View Full Version : "Die, die, monster home! Die!"


jfoobar
08-19-05, 10:06 AM
http://money.cnn.com/2005/08/18/real_estate/monster_home_backlash/index.htm


Die, die, monster home! Die!
Homes are bigger than ever. Now there's a backlash against the 'mansionization' of America.

August 18, 2005: 4:08 PM EDT
By Les Christie, CNN/Money staff writer

NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - The American home is getting bigger. And fatter. And, to some, uglier. Now, towns are fighting back.

Chevy Chase, Md., an upscale suburb of Washington, recently announced a six-month moratorium on home construction to make time to examine how to deal with the proliferation of oversized single-family houses.

Call them what you will -- starter castles, McMansions, monster homes -- these houses have become increasingly visible in metropolitan landscapes. Many residents hate them.

Todd Hoffman, town manager, said that more than 500 Chevy Chasers, a significant number in a community of just over 1,000 homes, signed a petition expressing their "concern about the effects of 'mansionization.'"

Folks in Chevy Chase aren't alone.

New York city councilman Tony Avella from Bayside in Queens, led a rezoning effort last April that combats the trend. He said, "Overdevelopment is the No. 1 issue in my district. It comes up more than education or police protection."

The Los Angeles city council recently passed an ordinance that limits home size in the Sunlund-Tujunga area.

New Canaan, Conn., enacted regulations this year that limit the height of new houses. Nearby Greenwich and Westport have similar rules under consideration.

Other opposition has surfaced in Boston, the Chicago suburbs and the Bay Area in California.
What's the big deal?

Are these new homes really so gargantuan that they should attract such fear and loathing?

Back in 1950, according to the National Association of Home Builders (NAHB), the average new house clocked in at 963 square feet. By 1970, that figure had swollen to 1,500 square feet.

Today's average: 2,400 square feet. One in five are more than 3,000 square feet.

Oddly, as houses expanded, the number of household members shrank, from 3.1 people in 1971 to 2.6 people today. The average building-lot size contracted also, to about 8,000 square feet from 9,000 in the 1980s.

So you're getting bigger houses on smaller lots with fewer people living in them.

Fueling the size craze is a long wish list of home features Americans desire. Some 87 percent prefer three or more bedrooms with 44 percent wanting at least four, according to the NAHB.

About 85 percent of Americans want walk-in pantries. Seventy-seven percent desire separate shower stalls, 95 percent want laundry rooms and 64 percent home offices. More than a third crave media rooms. Then there are exercise rooms, sun rooms, and dens.

No wonder new homes have grown.
Where are they a problem?

It's not necessarily the size that matters -- location is a big part of it. Few people oppose McMansions in new suburbs with uniformly large homes, or to single monsters set apart on ample acreage. What raises hackles is Gulliver-sized homes on lilliputian lots.

Many older, closed-in suburbs that are in demand for their easy commutes are already built out. Builders put in large homes on whatever shoebox-sized lots remain or knock down smaller houses and replace them with palaces. They fill in nearly to the lot line and build as high as regulations allow, dwarfing neighboring homes.

Many of Avella's constituents tell him if the issue is not addressed, they'll move. It's not just the traffic and overcrowding that bother them, it's the inappropriate and out-of-character nature of the monster homes as well.

In at least one case, according to Avella, someone supersized half of a semi-attached house, changing the once mirror-image building to an asymmetrical nightmare.
Is it always inappropriate?

According to Wendy Gruel, the L.A. City Councilwoman who introduced the ordinance in Sunland-Tujunga, most of the time the issue is not about aesthetics. "People feel they impact on the quality of life. They change the character of the town."

People don't like neighbors peering directly into their backyard and even their bedroom. They hate losing light. All of a sudden you have this huge shadow on your house and yard.

In many older communities, such as Chevy Chase, residents want to "maintain the look and feel of the town," said Hoffman.

There are also practical considerations. Chevy Chase has mature trees and lots of greenery. "Some of that is lost as a result of very large homes being built," said Hoffman. "With the tree loss and with more impermeable surfaces, there's greater storm runoff," which can contribute to flooding. Tree loss also makes streetscapes hotter in the summer.

Few think monster home bans should apply everywhere.

Gruel said a Council colleague told her that every community in her district wants an ordinance to combat mansionization, but in some cases, it's just not right. Most lots in Gruel's district are under 8,000 square feet. Neighborhoods with bigger lots don't need to regulate the home size as much because the monster homes have less effect on neighbors.

Michael Davidson of the American Planning Association said, "Every community is different. Higher density can sometimes serve a neighborhood." Packing more homes on smaller amounts of land can free other acreage for recreation. And mass transit, a darling of urbanists, works most efficiently when there's a large population living along its corridor.

Communities have to address the issue case by case.

"Nobody is against development," said Avella, "but let it be appropriate, let it fit in with the character of the area, and let it be an asset, not a detriment."

As to the bolded quote, has the author seen subdivisions being built nowadays?

Hiro11
08-19-05, 11:15 AM
This is ridiculous. People should be able to build whatever the hell they want to build. If a town doesn't like it, put some new zoning laws up to a vote (it will never pass, especially in chic towns like Chevy Chase). If they're not doing that, this sounds like jealousy to me.

OldDude
08-19-05, 11:22 AM
Most of our neighborhoods have covenants controlling number of stories, sq. footage of house vs lot (percentage), setbacks from side and front lot line, etc. You want a big house, start with a big lot.

Where these protections don't exist, "big foots" have become a problem, and the restrictions are being voted in. They don't limit size of house, they limit "aspect ratio" of house to lot.

nevermind
08-19-05, 11:35 AM
Todd Hoffman, town manager, said that more than 500 Chevy Chasers, a significant number in a community of just over 1,000 homes, signed a petition expressing their "concern about the effects of 'mansionization

I wonder how many of those 500 already have a McMansion. If they stop getting built now, their values would probably be much higher down the road.

VinVega
08-19-05, 11:42 AM
I would favor the law limiting the McMansions. They are an eyesore.

bhk
08-19-05, 12:17 PM
I'd like a law limiting stupidity by local governments.

kvrdave
08-19-05, 12:25 PM
I wonder how many of those 500 already have a McMansion. If they stop getting built now, their values would probably be much higher down the road.

I think that is a lot of it. They built big and now are being outdone.

I think it generally comes down to jealousy.

Duran
08-19-05, 02:21 PM
They complain if you build a big house. They'll complain if you build many smaller homes. The fact is, many people don't want any new development after they've moved into their nice, shiny new home.

Mordred
08-19-05, 02:28 PM
This is ridiculous. People should be able to build whatever the hell they want to build. If a town doesn't like it, put some new zoning laws up to a vote (it will never pass, especially in chic towns like Chevy Chase). If they're not doing that, this sounds like jealousy to me.Ummm, if you read the article that's what they're doing.

Breakfast with Girls
08-19-05, 02:38 PM
People will find anything to complain about.

CRM114
08-19-05, 03:49 PM
This is ridiculous. People should be able to build whatever the hell they want to build. If a town doesn't like it, put some new zoning laws up to a vote (it will never pass, especially in chic towns like Chevy Chase). If they're not doing that, this sounds like jealousy to me.

Exactly my feelings on the matter.

CRM114
08-19-05, 03:50 PM
I would favor the law limiting the McMansions. They are an eyesore.

rotfl

In the eye of the beholder I suppose. To me, old 70's split levels and 50's capes are eyesores.

heimerSWT
08-19-05, 04:02 PM
I would favor the law limiting the McMansions. They are an eyesore.
SO TRUE!!!!!!!

I'd pick the first house over the second any day! It's so much prettier. ;)

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/8479/shack2si.jpg

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/4790/shackexpensive9qt.jpg

VinVega
08-19-05, 04:03 PM
rotfl

In the eye of the beholder I suppose. To me, old 70's split levels and 50's capes are eyesores.
Generally the 50's capes and 70's split levels can't fit the number of people cramming into the new houses twice the size on the same property. You throw 12 people in a plot of land that originally held 5 at the most and you're going to have a parking problem.

CRM114
08-19-05, 04:07 PM
BTW, my house and development has a massive setback. Some of the bigger houses have large FRONT yards than back yards. So it seems my town is anal about making the home fit the parcel.

CRM114
08-19-05, 04:08 PM
Generally the 50's capes and 70's split levels can't fit the number of people cramming into the new houses twice the size on the same property. You throw 12 people in a plot of land that originally held 5 at the most and you're going to have a parking problem.

Who said anything about parking? I'm talking about the house itself.

VinVega
08-19-05, 04:13 PM
SO TRUE!!!!!!!

I'd pick the first house over the second any day! It's so much prettier. ;)
I don't have pictures of my old neighborhood in Queens, but they were taking one family capes on a very small plot of land and building 2 story monsters there (small yard goes to no yard and no grass in front of the house). Where before there was a family of 3-4 living in the house, there are now 3 families of 3-4 in the same spot. One family is in the basement, one family on the ground floor and one on the 2nd floor. There are 3 seperate entrances. There is of course only a 1 car garage, so the rest of the cars go on the street (or on the tiny remaining grass around the house -rolleyes-). So where you had a car in the garage and maybe a car in the driveway, you now have a car in the garage, one on the driveway, and 3-4 on the street. Your pics show a big house with a nice front yard. I have no problem with that, it's also nicely landscaped (and it looks like a one family house). I think my scenario is a little more of an eyesore than yours.

heimerSWT
08-19-05, 04:23 PM
No worries, I was just giving you a hard time. :D

I think your problem has more to do with zoning (single vs multi family housing) than actual size of the home.

VinVega
08-19-05, 04:26 PM
http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/7796/houses9ns.jpg
Actually, I did find a satellite pic of my old neighborhood. I circled 2 houses. One is of the older variety that the developers haven't gotten to yet. The other one in the upper left hand corner of the pic is one of the "newer" houses. There were 4 families living in the newer one if memory serves. The new one takes about double the space as the smaller ones. Notice how there's barely any property aside from the building. Sorry for the poor quality image.

VinVega
08-19-05, 04:29 PM
No worries, I was just giving you a hard time. :D

I think your problem has more to do with zoning (single vs multi family housing) than actual size of the home.
Yes, I think that is what I'm talking about. A run down old shack being turned into a large one family home, I really don't care about.

darkflounder
08-19-05, 04:52 PM
Build a smaller house. And if we don't like it, we'll take it from you and give it to somebody we deem more deserving. Oh, and we're retroactively charging you rent back to the last decade.

Yours truly..
New London, CT planning commission

CRM114
08-19-05, 05:23 PM
I don't have pictures of my old neighborhood in Queens, but they were taking one family capes on a very small plot of land and building 2 story monsters there (small yard goes to no yard and no grass in front of the house). Where before there was a family of 3-4 living in the house, there are now 3 families of 3-4 in the same spot. One family is in the basement, one family on the ground floor and one on the 2nd floor. There are 3 seperate entrances. There is of course only a 1 car garage, so the rest of the cars go on the street (or on the tiny remaining grass around the house -rolleyes-). So where you had a car in the garage and maybe a car in the driveway, you now have a car in the garage, one on the driveway, and 3-4 on the street. Your pics show a big house with a nice front yard. I have no problem with that, it's also nicely landscaped (and it looks like a one family house). I think my scenario is a little more of an eyesore than yours.

You are describing a Townhouse not a McMansion. McMansions are single family homes.

jfoobar
08-20-05, 11:06 AM
Maintaining a proper house footprint to lot ratio is the solution to the whole problem. These municipalities are simply reaping what they have allowed to be sown for so long.

You want to build a huge house that takes up 80% of your lot? Too bad. OTOH, saying that someone cannot add a second story or a reasonable garage is nonsense.

mikehunt
08-20-05, 06:29 PM
http://money.cnn.com/2005/08/18/real_estate/monster_home_backlash/index.htm



As to the bolded quote, has the author seen subdivisions being built nowadays?

obviously not
I truthfully saw one recently where I think they'd have a hard time pushing a standard size push mower between the two houses without scraping the houses

E70f
08-22-05, 01:39 PM
The average building-lot size contracted also, to about 8,000 square feet



Damn.

I will personally go hug and thank each of the acres of trees that surround my house :D

The lot to house footprint ratio should be 10:1 minimum.

uberjoe
08-22-05, 01:54 PM
The lot to house footprint ratio should be 10:1 minimum.

That's completely unreasonable in many places, including Chevy Chase. Have you ever been there? Many of the expensive houses still have less than 1/5 of an acre of land.

E70f
08-22-05, 02:03 PM
So a 1/5th acre lot gives you a max of ~1000 sq ft footprint, or a 2000 sq ft 2 storey house. Seems about right.

A McMansion isn't a big house, it's a big house on a lot that's too small. I fully understand why people hate them.

(No, I've not been to Chevy Chase, but I did see some of their movies and stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night).