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View Full Version : FDR would agree with GWB


Myster X
08-18-05, 03:09 PM
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2005-08-16-bush-strategy-edit_x.htm

Strategies or diversions?
By Peter Schweizer
Critics have assailed President Bush for his strategy on terrorism, calling the war in Iraq a diversion from the main task of defeating al-Qaeda. But just days after the 60th anniversary of victory in World War II, it is striking to note how Franklin D. Roosevelt faced very similar critics and how President Bush has adopted a grand strategy very much in the Roosevelt tradition.
With a logic that Bush would find familiar, FDR was lambasted by his critics for his WWII military strategy of defeating Germany first before focusing on Japan. They considered Germany a diversion. Wasn't it Japan and not Germany that had attacked us at Pearl Harbor, asked Sens. Arthur Vandenberg and A.B. Chandler? One foreign minister called the idea "suicidal heresy."

By 1942, American generals were complaining that precious resources were being diverted to fight Germans in North Africa, hardly a direct strategic concern. All of this should sound familiar in the debate over Iraq and the war on terrorism.

Conspiracy theories abounded then as they do today. Jon Meacham, in his book Franklin and Winston, writes about how FDR's critics believed that his Germany-first strategy was a result of excessive British influence. It wasn't a conspiracy involving Israel-loving neocons back then, but Anglophiles, who were manipulating the White House to serve British ends.

Both presidents also faced wild conspiracy theories that they manipulated intelligence to start a war: If Bush distorted intelligence to invade Iraq, FDR purposely ignored evidence that Japan was going to attack Pearl Harbor.

Then and now: Cries of politics

Democratic Sen. Millard Tydings essentially accused Roosevelt of ignoring his military advisers. Republican heavyweight Thomas Dewey, sounding like some of Bush's critics today, claimed that FDR's strategy of Germany first was really about domestic politics: FDR wanted to make sure that Pacific commander and potential GOP presidential candidate Gen. Douglas MacArthur didn't get the glory.

In a very strict and narrow military sense, FDR's critics were correct, just as Bush's are today. Germany did not pose an immediate military threat to the United States the way that Japan did.

In a fascinating parallel to Bush and Iraq, part of FDR's motivation for defeating Germany first was fear that the Nazis were working on atomic weapons. Alas, postwar intelligence revealed that Germany (like Saddam Hussein's Iraq) did not have much of a program. But military victory led most to ignore this massive intelligence failure.

FDR was not concerned with just the narrow military question of threats. Like Islamist extremists and secular Saddam, Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany were opportunistic allies. Though the Nazis considered the Japanese racially inferior, no better than mongrels, they were part of a worldwide movement. Using the same logic that Bush does today, FDR understood the need for a grand strategy that destroyed the movement, not just certain military aggressors that were part of it.

Grand strategy is not only about defeating enemies, but also defeating them in a sequence and a manner that leads to a favorable postwar situation. Can anyone seriously doubt that defeating al-Qaeda but leaving the political situation in the Middle East the same is at best a temporary victory? Bush, as FDR did, understands that only with political transformation will the postwar prospects for peace improve.

A worldview

The threat we face today is more amorphous and less easy to define than it was during World War II. But the strategic principles remain the same. Bush's critics, like Roosevelt's, are flawed in their thinking because they lack a grand strategy. Concerned only (or so they say) with the military defeat of al-Qaeda, they have nothing to say about defeating a worldwide movement or how to build a foundation for a successful postwar world.

There have been numerous tactical mistakes made in the war on terrorism, just as there were under Roosevelt 60 years ago. Nonetheless, we cannot let tragic, tactical setbacks, like the recent deaths of 20 Marines from one unit, lead us to abandon the grand strategy. Allied errors at the Battle of the Bulge didn't mean the sweep across Europe was wrong.

Bush is in many ways FDR's strategic soul mate. His war on terror is a total global war against a movement comprised of terrorist groups and their state sponsors. By ousting both Saddam and the Taliban, he has removed two important components of the worldwide terrorist movement. And his grand strategy is slowly achieving results.

The forces of reform in the Middle East have been strengthened; the terrorist movement has been psychologically shaken. By destroying Saddam's military machine overnight, he has completely changed the psychology of the war on terrorism. Bush's strategy is one that FDR would understand well.

al_bundy
08-18-05, 03:16 PM
did his political opponents also blast FDR for not winnning the war in 2 weeks and for suffering casualties?

kvrdave
08-18-05, 03:23 PM
interesting article.

Jason
08-18-05, 03:25 PM
did his political opponents also blast FDR for not winnning the war in 2 weeks and for suffering casualties?

No, but GWBs supporters criticize FDR endlessly for "letting" the Japanese bomb Pearl Harbor to drum up support for going to war, starting up that terrible "ponzi scheme" called Social Security, and for being a socialist. Had Rush Limbaugh been around at the time, I'm sure he would have made fun of FDR daily for marrying his cousin and being a cripple.

Nice to see they're hypocticical enough to compare Saint George to FDR when it suits their purposes though.

al_bundy
08-18-05, 03:29 PM
FDR had different plans for social security than the reality today. He knew it wouldn't last the way it was originally designed.

Myster X
08-18-05, 03:29 PM
Nice to see they're hypocticical enough to compare Saint George to FDR when it suits their purposes though.

Welcome to politics as they would say

Geofferson
08-18-05, 03:46 PM
As I've been saying all along...I'm a FDR (JFK & HST) Democrat. Hence the reason I'm a GWB Republican today.

kvrdave
08-18-05, 03:47 PM
No, but GWBs supporters criticize FDR endlessly for "letting" the Japanese bomb Pearl Harbor to drum up support for going to war, starting up that terrible "ponzi scheme" called Social Security, and for being a socialist. Had Rush Limbaugh been around at the time, I'm sure he would have made fun of FDR daily for marrying his cousin and being a cripple.

Nice to see they're hypocticical enough to compare Saint George to FDR when it suits their purposes though.


Yes, thank goodness only one party is guilty of this, or it would really suck. :lol:

Red Dog
08-18-05, 03:53 PM
So......?

Oh, this is just food for thought for Democrats, right? ;)

Red Dog
08-18-05, 03:55 PM
FDR would certainly agree with GWB on one thing. How he spends money. ;)

sracer
08-18-05, 03:59 PM
I've never seen anything written about Bush's "grand strategy". Did FDR sling one reason after another (for going after Germany first) to see which one would "stick"?

nemein
08-18-05, 04:05 PM
Did FDR sling one reason after another (for going after Germany first) to see which one would "stick"

Did Bush? Bush has had the same basic reasons from the beginning, different ones have been highlighted at different points (sometimes by the press, sometimes by the admin itself) but they've all been there.

Mark_vdH
08-18-05, 04:11 PM
Suppose they hadn't found Nazis in Germany after the invasion. :eek:

Ranger
08-18-05, 04:18 PM
Suppose they hadn't found Nazis in Germany after the invasion. :eek:
oh snap!

rotfl

greydt
08-18-05, 04:43 PM
An utterly lame article - the loosest possible connections are being made comparing the Iraq war & WWII in the article and it's ridiculous. The author seems to have condensed bits and pieces from all over WWII, and the logic he's trying weave in the comparisons make no sense whatsoever (I'm STILL trying to make sense of his comparison between the the Battle of the Bulge and recent loss of 20 marines in a tactical setback vs. grand strategy sense...wtf?)

Sorry, but modern Iraq is no Germany of the 30's/40's, whether in scope, threat, or pretty much any comparison you want to make - not even close. (well, both of their leaders have FACIAL HAIR...I'll give you that).

And Japan is no "Al-Queda/Islamist extremists" (it would actually be EASIER and FASTER to defeat Japan - 30/40's or modern day versions - than to defeat "Islamist extremists")

To be honest, that's probably part of the problem - people are trying reason this modern day issue with a world from 60-70 years ago that no longer exists. If we're going to use WWII analogies as a template to understand and defeat terrorism, then we're going to be utterly screwed.

classicman2
08-18-05, 04:45 PM
FDR must be turning over in his grave to hear that his actions are being compared with George W. Bush.

I expect another article to appear that FDR would agree with Bush's privitization scheme for Social Security.

wildcatlh
08-18-05, 04:50 PM
In making the Germany point, that article seems to either forget or deliberately ignore a very important fact. Germany (along with Italy) declared war on the US on December 11, 1941. Iraq never declared war on us (unless you want to use the unofficial declaration of war due to terrorism argument, but I'm not sure that works).

Red Dog
08-18-05, 04:55 PM
In making the Germany point, that article seems to either forget or deliberately ignore a very important fact. Germany (along with Italy) declared war on the US on December 11, 1941. Iraq never declared war on us (unless you want to use the unofficial declaration of war due to terrorism argument, but I'm not sure that works).




details, details

DodgingCars
08-18-05, 06:39 PM
This thread makes me laugh.

Weee...

Fielding Mellish
08-19-05, 10:03 AM
Suppose they hadn't found Nazis in Germany after the invasion. :eek:

rotfl rotfl rotfl


You can close this thread, now.

VinVega
08-19-05, 11:51 AM
Well, that's not all GWB and FDR have in common. Each President faces the conspiracy theories as to the events leading up to the war. Some people suggest that FDR knew the attack was coming and moved the carriers away with that knowledge so they wouldn't get hit. Some also claim that GWB knew about the 9/11 attacks and let them happen.

Of course these folks are a little -screwy- but isn't that what America is about? ;)

kvrdave
08-19-05, 12:03 PM
Harry Truman only dropped the atomic bombs on Japan to scare the Russians and you all know it. :grunt:



:lol:

Pharoh
08-19-05, 12:07 PM
FDR must be turning over in his grave to hear that his actions are being compared with George W. Bush.

I expect another article to appear that FDR would agree with Bush's privitization scheme for Social Security.



Agreed. There is no way in hell that I would ever compare Mr. Bush to FDR.

beecee24
08-19-05, 02:27 PM
Way off topic, but what the US did after World War II regarding Japan was despicable. It is an insult to the war heroes of the Pacific theatre, that unscrupulous men like Nobusuke Kishi were given positions of power after the US occupied Japan. Who is Nobusuke Kishi you ask? Well, simply put, he was a class 'A' war criminal that was later released by the occupation forces, and held power until he died in 1987. In fact, the new democracy established in Japan was a farce, and still is in many ways. The same 'war criminals' that held power during the war, were put right back into power after the war.