New survey says 40% Mexicans would immigrate to the United States if given the chance

[LASERMOVIES]

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/nation/20050816-1435-cnsimmigration.html

Poll finds strong desire among Mexicans to immigrate


By Toby Eckert
COPLEY NEWS SERVICE

2:35 p.m. August 16, 2005

WASHINGTON – With pressure growing on Congress and the White House to impose tighter controls on immigration, a survey released Tuesday showed that four in 10 Mexicans would immigrate to the United States if given the chance and more than half would consider participating in a guest worker program like the one proposed by President Bush.
A separate survey by the non-partisan Pew Hispanic Center also revealed a split in attitudes among native- and foreign-born Latinos in the United States on immigration-related issues, including whether illegal immigrants should be allowed to get drivers' licenses. Most U.S.-born Latinos agreed that illegal immigrants should be barred from getting licenses, while a similar majority of foreign-born Latinos disagreed.

Pew's report on migration-related attitudes in Mexico showed interest in coming to the United States remains strong, including among those who earn well above the minimum wage and are well educated. Forty-one percent of Mexicans surveyed in February and 46 percent in May said they would live in the United States if they "had the means and opportunity."

"Very significant portions of the Mexican adult population have the thought of migration in mind and view it as an option," said Roberto Suro, director of the Pew Hispanic Center. "A significant portion, two out of 10, are willing to consider the idea of coming here without authorization."

"It's very strong in the middle class. It's very strong among people who have some high school education and even among Mexicans who have been to college," he added.

The Mexico survey results were based on household interviews in 120 locations in February and May. The error margin is plus or minus 3 percent.

Advocates of stricter limits on immigration said the numbers show that immigration from Mexico, legal and illegal, is unlikely to decrease even if the economy there improves or birth rates decline.

"Everybody wants to come," said Steven Camarota, research director at the Center for Immigration Studies. "What that tells us is that thinking about immigration as a demographic or a wage differential doesn't make sense."

Quality of life issues, including law and order, are just as important, Camarota said.

Congress is split on the issue, particularly when it comes to illegal immigration. While some lawmakers support Bush's idea of a temporary worker program, perhaps including the possibility of eventual citizenship, others favor tighter border security and cracking down on illegal immigration.

Pressure at the U.S.-Mexico border has been growing. The governors of New Mexico and Arizona recently declared emergencies in counties bordering Mexico, citing violence and property damage by illegal immigrants.

They say the federal government is failing to enforce immigration laws.

The separate Pew survey of 1,001 U.S. Latinos showed that a plurality, 43 percent, said the number of Latin Americans allowed to immigrate legally to the United States should remain the same as it is now. Thirty-one percent said it should be increased and 13 percent said it should be reduced.

U.S.- and foreign-born Latinos held similar views on that issue. But they split on other matters.

While 60 percent of U.S.-born Latinos approved of laws that grant drivers' licenses only to U.S. citizens and legal immigrants, only 29 percent of foreign-born Latinos approved. The issue has been hotly debated in California, and earlier this year Bush signed a law requiring states to verify whether license applicants are U.S. citizens or legal immigrants.

The two groups also differ on other immigration-related issues, with 34 percent of U.S.-born Latinos saying illegal immigrants hurt the economy, versus 15 percent of the foreign-born. Among the U.S.-born, 15 percent opposed programs that offer undocumented immigrants a path to legal, permanent residence, while 4 percent of the foreign-born did.

"Basic attitudes toward immigrants today are not unanimous among Latinos," Suro said. "There is a significant minority of native born who are concerned or uneasy or willing to express negative views, particularly of the unauthorized" immigrants.

[VinVega]

Well, that math was easy. 35% of Mexico has already immigrated to the US. :lol:

[VinVega]

What's really sickening is that Mexico is all to happy to dump these folks on the US' dime. People running away from the US in hoards would probably send up a red flag in this country.

[classicman2]

What's even more disturbing is how people seemed to be consumed with the problem of 'illegal immigration.' Kindly look at the plethora of threads on this forum concerning this subject. ;)

[68ShelbyGT500KR]

What's even more disturbing is how people seemed to be consumed with the problem of 'illegal immigration.' Kindly look at the plethora of threads on this forum concerning this subject. ;)

Especially down here in Texas. Seems like that is one of the top 5 subjects

[Goldblum]

Especially down here in Texas. Seems like that is one of the top 5 subjects
For good reason. I used to work as a summer employee at the D.A.'s office in a suburb of Philly. I worked with DUIs. Half the outstanding warrants (at least) of DUI-related offenses (many involving accidents w/injuries) were illegals. And that was in PA. God knows what it's like on the border.

[Giantrobo]

What's even more disturbing is how people seemed to be consumed with the problem of 'illegal immigration.' Kindly look at the plethora of threads on this forum concerning this subject. ;)

Uhm... yeah we know you don't give a shit about it so why do you come in to threadcrap?

[classicman2]

There's no threadcrap.

I do care about it. Unlike you, however, I'm a realist. You're one of the fence builders, but you've failed to mention how high you want to build the fence, and how many thousands of troops you want to put on the border.

[E70f]

Wouldn't they want to emigrate? Did a Mexican write that article?! :)

[Y2K Falcon]

I hope this happens soon. I need some brickwork done around the house. :up:

[namrfumot]

This reminds me of a song by Steven Lynch. In it he talks about all kinds of funny super heroes...one is called "Immigration Dude"

If I could be a super hero
I would be Immigration Dude
I'd send all the foreigners back to their homes
For eating up all of our food
And stealing our welfare and best jobs to boot
Like landscaping, dishwashing, picking our fruit
I'd pass a lot of laws to get rid of their brood
Cause I'd be Immigration Dude

:lol: good stuff..

[JasonF]

Those who want to build a fence ought to look at our list of trade partners, then explain how they intend to allow goods to cross the border without letting people cross the border.

[E70f]

Televisions sneak themselves across the isolated parts of the border in the dead of night?

Maybe the televisions etc could come through manned border points like they do today? A truckfull of TVs would be allowed in, a Mexican recreation of that Gateway ad, with a horde of Mexicans running through the border each carrying one TV, would not be :lol:

[uberjoe]

Those who want to build a fence ought to look at our list of trade partners, then explain how they intend to allow goods to cross the border without letting people cross the border.

My house has walls, yet I'm able to move from one side to the other by means of an amazing device called a "door." I've heard tell of fences with a similar contraption known as a "gate."

[OldDude]

Those who want to build a fence ought to look at our list of trade partners, then explain how they intend to allow goods to cross the border without letting people cross the border.

Border crossings. Both goods and people need the proper paperwork. Undocumented people or goods are a problem (the undocumented goods are all drugs). Ideally, a wall ensures the only crossing is where customs & immigration are monitoring. It is such a simple system, even Mexico uses it on their southern border.

[OldDude]

There's no threadcrap.

I do care about it. Unlike you, however, I'm a realist. You're one of the fence builders, but you've failed to mention how high you want to build the fence, and how many thousands of troops you want to put on the border.

Let me try a simple proposal. Israel has a fence/wall design that seems to work. (I might add it works in a desert environment, much like we have on the Mexican border.)

Since we are obviously incapable of designing a fence, a patrol schedule, or anything else, maybe for starters, we could copy their design.

Instead, we have a low fence, which has never been patrolled and has numerous holes cut in it. I believe that is called a sieve.

[classicman2]

And how many thousands of troops do you envision will be necessary to patrol the border?

[classicman2]

I've got a better solution - fine the hell out of employers who hire them - large, large fines.

Do you approve of that OldDude? ;)

[X]

This is the reason why we should buy goods made in Mexico and not in China.

[E70f]

And how many thousands of troops do you envision will be necessary to patrol the border?

Quite a few. It's not like they're not used to being in desert locations, is it? ;) Fewer IEDs in AZ/NM/TX/CA too I reckon.

I've got a better solution - fine the hell out of employers who hire them - large, large fines.

Hell yeah. If an illegal is caught travelling on business in their employers truck/whatever, the truck and its contents (except the people) should be confiscated and crushed as the employer's punishment.

[DodgingCars]

I've got a better solution - fine the hell out of employers who hire them - large, large fines.

Do you approve of that OldDude? ;)

Don't know about OldDude, but I sure do!

[DodgingCars]

Let me try a simple proposal. Israel has a fence/wall design that seems to work. (I might add it works in a desert environment, much like we have on the Mexican border.)

Since we are obviously incapable of designing a fence, a patrol schedule, or anything else, maybe for starters, we could copy their design.

Instead, we have a low fence, which has never been patrolled and has numerous holes cut in it. I believe that is called a sieve.

In order for our wall not be racist, we need to build a wall on our northern border as well...

Hmmm.. but I'm not sure what percent of Canadians want to immigrate to the U.S.

[wendersfan]

Funny how this is one poll whose results no one has disputed. I guess people will believe anything that confirms their existing beliefs.. :lol:

[VinVega]

I've got a better solution - fine the hell out of employers who hire them - large, large fines.

Do you approve of that OldDude? ;)
Now you're starting to make sense to me.

[VinVega]

Funny how this is one poll whose results no one has disputed. I guess people will believe anything that confirms their existing beliefs.. :lol:
Leave us alone. We're on a roll! :banana:

[LASERMOVIES]

Funny how this is one poll whose results no one has disputed. I guess people will believe anything that confirms their existing beliefs.. :lol:

I agree it could be flawed! I believe 60% would come to the United States if the Mexican border was opened, and there were no immigration restrictions. I think the results are reversed.

[JasonF]

Televisions sneak themselves across the isolated parts of the border in the dead of night?

Maybe the televisions etc could come through manned border points like they do today? A truckfull of TVs would be allowed in, a Mexican recreation of that Gateway ad, with a horde of Mexicans running through the border each carrying one TV, would not be :lol:

Hiring enough agents to inspect every truck that comes across the border is almost as unworkable as hiring enough agents to patrol the hypothetical fence.

[LASERMOVIES]

I've got a better solution - fine the hell out of employers who hire them - large, large fines.

Do you approve of that OldDude? ;)

I would support doing that and there is evidence it would help change things.


http://www.nwanews.com/story.php?paper=adg&section=News&storyid=124444


Fayetteville : Dropped after immigrant arrests at Wal-Marts , floor cleaner sues

BY MICHELLE BRADFORD

Posted on Tuesday, August 9, 2005

FAYETTEVILLE — An Alabama company says Wal-Mart Stores Inc. breached a contract when it changed business practices to settle a federal immigrant labor investigation.

Southern Cleaning Services Inc. claims Wal-Mart owes it more than $2 million for floor-cleaning services and contract obligations. The company sued Wal-Mart in U.S. District Court in Fayetteville on July 27.

Wal-Mart stopped contracting janitorial services after an October 2003 raid at 60 of its stores. Federal agents arrested 245 illegal immigrants employed by independent companies that Wal-Mart paid to clean its stores at night.

Wal-Mart announced in March that it would pay $11 million to the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency to settle the investigation.

Wal-Mart admitted no criminal wrongdoing but said it would change its business practices. Among other things, Wal-Mart said it would use its own employees, rather than outside contractors, to clean store floors.

Fayetteville attorney Michael Hodson said Monday that Wal-Mart broke its contract with Southern Cleaning as an indirect result of the settlement.

Hodson, an attorney for Southern Cleaning, said the company did not hire illegal immigrants as employees and wasn’t part of the labor investigation.

The suit states that Wal-Mart broke the contract with Southern Cleaning "unilaterally" and "without good cause." Wal-Mart gave the company five days’ notice on Dec. 5, 2003, that it would begin "internal floor cleaning" and no longer needed Southern Cleaning’s services, according to the suit.

At that time, more than three months were pending on two-year contracts for more than 30 Wal-Mart stores in several states, the suit states.

Southern Cleaning seeks $1,933,014.68 from Wal-Mart in unfulfilled contract payments.

The company also seeks $71,397.96 in unpaid invoices. Wal-Mart hasn’t paid for work completed between Nov. 7, 2003, and Dec. 12, 2003, according to the suit.

Southern Cleaning tried repeatedly to collect, but Wal-Mart didn’t respond, the suit states.

Wal-Mart didn’t return a call Monday seeking comment.

[Pharoh]

And how many thousands of troops do you envision will be necessary to patrol the border?



I wonder how the folks who believe the fence/patrolling of the border is a workable solution to the illegal immigration problem feel about the War on Drugs? Is that winnable?

[Red Dog]

My house has walls, yet I'm able to move from one side to the other by means of an amazing device called a "door." I've heard tell of fences with a similar contraption known as a "gate."


rotfl

[Red Dog]

I wonder how the folks who believe the fence/patrolling of the border is a workable solution to the illegal immigration problem feel about the War on Drugs? Is that winnable?


Some no doubt see it as a workable improvement; not necessarily a solution. Just like you probably see anti-drug laws and enforcement as an improvement over doing nothing.

[DodgingCars]

I wonder how the folks who believe the fence/patrolling of the border is a workable solution to the illegal immigration problem feel about the War on Drugs? Is that winnable?

What about the war on crime?

What is the workable solution? I'm mostly hearing... "I'm a realist."

It seems to me that there are ways to curb illegal immigration that are workable.

1) Fine companies for hiring illegals.
2) Improve identity cards so its harder to counterfeit.
3) Relax some immigration laws to allow for more lower-wage workers to come legally.
4) Increase border security
5) Deny (non-emergency) public services to illegals

Those are just some...

It seems that the pro-illegal immigration people here seem to be saying, "We can't stop it, so why bother."

[Myster X]

fuck the fence
fuck border patrol
outsource more jobs to Mexico instead of China

[kvrdave]

Hiring enough agents to inspect every truck that comes across the border is almost as unworkable as hiring enough agents to patrol the hypothetical fence.

I believe a fence similar to what Israel has built would require very few patrol agents. A coupld of motion cameras, and a helicopter every so often, and it would be fine. Also, even if we didn't inspect a single truck coming across the border, but had a good fence, it would slow illegal immigration down to a small percentage of what it is currently.

Are you suggesting that we should do nothing?

Why isn't a fence like Israel put up a workable solution?

[DodgingCars]

Why isn't a fence like Israel put up a workable solution?

The only thing I could think of is that the delay at the border would be INSANE.

[E70f]

Hiring enough agents to inspect every truck that comes across the border is almost as unworkable as hiring enough agents to patrol the hypothetical fence.

Please. The "oh, it's just too difficult" argument is so weak.

Look at what Americans have achieved in the past when they applied themselves. I don't think examining the contents of lots of trucks is *that* difficult, certainly not walking on the moon difficult. Some sort of automated x-ray, or body heat detector, or CO2 detector, or whatever could be created, to scan trucks. Or, we could have have customs agents at the major exporting factories in Mexico that seal the trucks at loading time before they leave to head north. Would that be perfect? No. Would it be better than what happens today? Yes.

[Duran]

I've got a better solution - fine the hell out of employers who hire them - large, large fines.



So what happens when companies stop hiring illegals? Where do the immigrants go? How do they get money?

[Red Dog]

So what happens when companies stop hiring illegals? Where do the immigrants go? How do they get money?


They were out taking a wizz when the social contract was signed. ;)

[kvrdave]

The only thing I could think of is that the delay at the border would be INSANE.


The delay for the illegal immigrants? I think you can basically change nothing about the actual drive through borders, and still make a huge dent in illegal immigration.

[JasonF]

The delay for the illegal immigrants? I think you can basically change nothing about the actual drive through borders, and still make a huge dent in illegal immigration.

If you're letting people drive through the border willy-nilly, you'll get trucks with comparments full of illegals (which is what we get now).

If you check all -- or even a significant portion -- of the trucks, you're going to add significant time on to the border-crossing experience.

[classicman2]

They were out taking a wizz when the social contract was signed. ;)

When folks in Texas, Arizona & California complain about illegal aliens - well they've got something to complain about.

Now when the folks from Virginia & Maryland complain about illegal aliens - well. They'd bitch if they were hung with a new rope.

[Red Dog]

Now when the folks from Virginia & Maryland complain about illegal aliens - well. They'd bitch if they were hung with a new rope.


That's great. Hey, everyone - if you're not from TX, AZ, or CA, then shut the hell up and get out of this thread.

[kvrdave]

If you're letting people drive through the border willy-nilly, you'll get trucks with comparments full of illegals (which is what we get now).

If you check all -- or even a significant portion -- of the trucks, you're going to add significant time on to the border-crossing experience.

My guess is that those that come through on trucks is small compared to those who come over the desert. And I don't mind adding significan time on to the border-crossing experience. I've been to Vegas buffets and Disneland. It's part of the atmosphere. :)

[Red Dog]

My guess is that those that come through on trucks is small compared to those who come over the desert. And I don't mind adding significan time on to the border-crossing experience. I've been to Vegas buffets and Disneland. It's part of the atmosphere. :)


Can't somebody invent a tricorder. ;)

[OldDude]

I've got a better solution - fine the hell out of employers who hire them - large, large fines.

Do you approve of that OldDude? ;)

Actually, I do, but with two caveats:
*The fines also apply to all the small landscapers, tree trimmers, little companies like that which hire "under the table" and even the Democratic politicians who hire illegal nannies.
*The Feds are "reasonable" if the employer retains photocopies of documents he was shown for proof of right to work, and they are convincing enough to be "good forgeries." Since INS itself was recently duped by fake docs, they should be understanding if a business has a reasonable defense. If they knowingly hired an illegal, off with their heads.

[Red Dog]

Actually, I do, but with two caveats:
*The fines also apply to all the small landscapers, tree trimmers, little companies like that which hire "under the table" and even the Democratic politicians who hire illegal nannies.
*The Feds are "reasonable" if the employer retains photocopies of documents he was shown for proof of right to work, and they are convincing enough to be "good forgeries." Since INS itself was recently duped by fake docs, they should be understanding if a business has a reasonable defense. If they knowingly hired an illegal, off with their heads.


How about grannies who hire people to do odd jobs around the house?

[OldDude]

The only thing I could think of is that the delay at the border would be INSANE.

So, you're saying so many more people cross illegally than legally, we can't afford Customs agents to interview them all? That's a lot of Mexicans. More reason to do something, I say.

Strange, I don't think we have many illegal crossings up north, at least not around the Great Lakes due to the long swim. They manage to interview everyone at the crossings and the "Great Moat" takes the place of the fence.

[DodgingCars]

So, you're saying so many more people cross illegally than legally, we can't afford Customs agents to interview them all? That's a lot of Mexicans. More reason to do something, I say.

No, I just thought that thorough border security would make crossing the border legally much more difficult. Lots of Americans cross the border everyday, for instance.

[DodgingCars]

Do Illegal Immigrants Help or Hurt the Economy?
http://www.npr.org/programs/atc/features/2005/aug/pewhispanic/economy200.gif


Survey of Views in Mexico
If at This Moment, You Had the Means and Opportunity to Move to the U.S., Would You?

http://www.npr.org/programs/atc/features/2005/aug/pewhispanic/wouldmove200.gif

[DodgingCars]

Estimates suggest that 1 in 8 people born in mexico lives in the U.S.

[Duran]

When folks in Texas, Arizona & California complain about illegal aliens - well they've got something to complain about.

Now when the folks from Virginia & Maryland complain about illegal aliens - well. They'd bitch if they were hung with a new rope.

Haven't hung out in Northern Virginia much, have you?

[Giantrobo]

Don't know about OldDude, but I sure do!


I'm for that too! :up: Fine 'em and or arrrest 'em.

But then the Pro-illegal folks will just start bitching about the 5 cent rise in lettuce and clothing costs....

[Duran]

Why are we so against illegal immigration? Is it the illegal part or the immigration part? If it was changed so that any person without a felonius record or on terrorism lists could come in and work legally, would their still be an issue?

[Ranger]

I've got a better solution - fine the hell out of employers who hire them - large, large fines.
Wouldn't this make house prices go even higher in CA & AZ?

[Duran]

Wouldn't this make house prices go even higher in CA & AZ?

Possibly, although probably not by much. Housing prices in CA and AZ are not determined by building cost. :)

It would very likely increase crime, however.

[fujishig]

Why are we so against illegal immigration? Is it the illegal part or the immigration part? If it was changed so that any person without a felonius record or on terrorism lists could come in and work legally, would their still be an issue?

It's the illegal part, I would guess. It would still be an issue even if we weeded out terrorists, because having all these people coming in and not paying taxes yet using the things our tax dollars pay for (like schools, roads, etc.) doesn't make much sense.

So who's pro-illegal immigration, and why? I have yet to hear a good answer to this, besides the argument that "everyone immigrated here at one time." Because of cheap labor?

[Gallant Pig]

So who's pro-illegal immigration, and why? I have yet to hear a good answer to this, besides the argument that "everyone immigrated here at one time." Because of cheap labor?

I don't think there is a person who is pro-illegal immigration. Only realists one side and on the other... those folks who think we should create fantastical fences with land mines and a moat with sharks with lasers on their heads. ;)

[Gallant Pig]

Haven't hung out in Northern Virginia much, have you?


Haven't been to Texas, AZ, or Southern CA have you?

[Gallant Pig]

Why isn't a fence like Israel put up a workable solution?

I want what you're smoking :)

<img src="http://www.masada2000.org/isr-us1.gif">

[Ranger]

Yes, realistic in the theory that Americans are becoming more educated and just aren't going to do some heavy labor work regardless of how high the wage is.

If Mexico was an Islamic country and was sending suicide bomber after suicide bomber here in America, I'd be all for the wall and heavy border security. But since Mexico is not an Islamic country, I am not too concerned about them.

[Giantrobo]

Why are we so against illegal immigration? Is it the illegal part or the immigration part? If it was changed so that any person without a felonius record or on terrorism lists could come in and work legally, would their still be an issue?

1. Against Illegal. Legal Immigration isn't a problem. But Like I said, when it's Illegal you can't keep track of numbers and it overwhelms areas because there's no way to keep the flow under control.

2. Do you mean "Guest Worker" programs where the worker is supposed to work, then leave after a certain time? Yeah right. People wonder who's going to round up illegals now, well what about when "Guest workers" over stay their time? We're back to square one.

[DodgingCars]

Why are we so against illegal immigration? Is it the illegal part or the immigration part? If it was changed so that any person without a felonius record or on terrorism lists could come in and work legally, would their still be an issue?

Both. I'm not anti-immigration, but I am anit-open borders. I think we need controlled immigration. I do think uncontrolled immigration can be harmful to a nation.

[Giantrobo]

Yes, realistic in the theory that Americans are becoming more educated and just aren't going to do some heavy labor work regardless of how high the wage is.

If Mexico was an Islamic country and was sending suicide bomber after suicide bomber here in America, I'd be all for the wall and heavy border security. But since Mexico is not an Islamic country, I am not too concerned about them.

Why should you? You're in Louisiana. Apparently you haven't been hit yet.

[Giantrobo]

I don't think there is a person who is pro-illegal immigration. Only realists one side and on the other... those folks who think we should create fantastical fences with land mines and a moat with sharks with lasers on their heads. ;)


Well, if that's all the "realists" think "the other side" is focused on ...much like you based on your posts...then I can see your point and we can agree a fence is silly. ;)


I don't think a fence is going to work BTW

[Ranger]

Why should you? You're in Louisiana. Apparently you haven't been hit yet.
Yeah, like we're really far away from Texas.

[Duran]

Both. I'm not anti-immigration, but I am anit-open borders. I think we need controlled immigration. I do think uncontrolled immigration can be harmful to a nation.

What's "controlled immigration?" Quotas, or just documenting everyone that wishes to come to the US?

[Giantrobo]

So who's pro-illegal immigration, and why? I have yet to hear a good answer to this, besides the argument that "everyone immigrated here at one time." Because of cheap labor?

But that's just it, with the exception of the white devils that came here and stole the land from the Indians;), everyone else came LEGALLY. Hell, even the blacks who came here in chains were brought here when slavery was legal;)

LEGAL Immigrants are being royally fucked by ILLEGALS when the ILLEGALS jump to the front of the line or even worse, they don't even get in line and they sneak in through the back door. Thenn you have politicians who make laws exempting ILLEGALS from the Laws the Citizens are bound too. How do you "REALISTS" explain that?

i.e. A California politician wanted to exempt illegals from getting their cars confiscated if they're caught driving without insurance. But someone born here would NOT be exempt. HUH!??! WHAT?!?!? Illegals can get breaks on school tuition that CITIZENS can't get. What's up with that? What's the point of being born here and calling yourself a citizen?

Again, explain how this is good for anyone?

Wait, I do know how...Politicians who're lobbied/whored out by rich business ownes put up laws that help illegals so they can keep their cheap exploited labor. But I guess as long as your lettuce and IZOD shirts are cheap you "REALLISTS" don't give a damn about exploited workers....

[Giantrobo]

Yeah, like we're really far away from Texas.


From the sound of your posts it would seem that you are....

[Ranger]

:lol: I dunno. I would think that I've still been a strong advocate of making English the official language of America. Did you miss that "Supercuts" thread? :D

[DodgingCars]

What's "controlled immigration?" Quotas, or just documenting everyone that wishes to come to the US?

Quotas as well as qualifications (i.e. no felons, etc.).

[classicman2]

Haven't hung out in Northern Virginia much, have you?

I hope you're not attempting to make a comparison as to the volume of illegal aliens in Northern Virginia with Texas, Arizona, & California.

[Gallant Pig]

I'm just curious...

I think we need controlled immigration.

Why?

[Duran]

I hope you're not attempting to make a comparison as to the volume of illegal aliens in Northern Virginia with Texas, Arizona, & California.

I hope you're not planning on avoiding my previous question.

[DodgingCars]

I'm just curious...



Why?

I already said. I think uncontrolled immigration can cause harm to a country. Rapid population growth, cultural barriers, language barriers, etc all prove difficult for communities to deal with.

Not to mention "undesirables" such as criminals, extremists, etc.

Although unrealistic, what do you think America would be like if 100 million extremist Muslims came here in the next year?

I'm curious... Why don't you think uncontrolled immigration would be a problem?

[Gallant Pig]

I already said. I think uncontrolled immigration can cause harm to a country. Rapid population growth, cultural barriers, language barriers, etc all prove difficult for communities to deal with.

Not to mention "undesirables" such as criminals, extremists, etc.

Although unrealistic, what do you think America would be like if 100 million extremist Muslims came here in the next year?

I'm curious... Why don't you think uncontrolled immigration would be a problem?


You read my question wrong: why do we need immigration period?

[classicman2]

I hope you're not planning on avoiding my previous question.

What question were you trying to ask?

[DodgingCars]

You read my question wrong: why do we need immigration period?

Why am I being asked this question, again? -confused-

[Gallant Pig]

Like I said, curious.

[Giantrobo]

Like I said, curious.

:confused:

[VinVega]

I don't think there is a person who is pro-illegal immigration. Only realists one side and on the other... those folks who think we should create fantastical fences with land mines and a moat with sharks with lasers on their heads. ;)
The families of the illegals certainly are pro illegal immigration. They want their remaining family members in Mexico to come to the US. Well, the good thing is that they're only illegal for one generation. Once they have kids, they're American citizens, so all they have to do is wait it out until they have a kid. Those kids of course are American citizens and can vote in influence politics for things like drivers licenses for illegals. This is exactly what's happening in CA and politicians have to cater to the proxies for all the illegals coming across the boarder because they are citizens who can vote, even if their aunts, uncles and cousins can't (but THEIR kids will). Perhaps the reason why both the Repubs and Dems are racing to cater to the hispanic vote in the US. I wonder why they are growing so fast as a demographic? :hscratch:

[Duran]

Once they have kids, they're American citizens, so all they have to do is wait it out until they have a kid. Those kids of course are American citizens and can vote in influence politics for things like drivers licenses for illegals.

I don't think the citizen children of illegal immigrants can vote as soon as they pop out of the womb. I think it takes 18 years or so. :)

[Duran]

What question were you trying to ask?

This is a message board, not a conversation. The question I posed is there for all to see.

[VinVega]

I don't think the citizen children of illegal immigrants can vote as soon as they pop out of the womb. I think it takes 18 years or so. :)
How long have illegals been coming to the South and West of the US? Well over 18 years. They have a strong advocacy group in that region of the country.

[classicman2]

VinVega, you fail to understand. The principal problem of illegal immigration is not in Texas, Arizona, California, etc. It's in Northern Virginia. :lol:

[nemein]

Just heard an interesting approach that may make a different in illegal immigration. Those caught crossing over are automatically drafted into the Army and sent to Iraq. Wonder how that would go over w/ everyone ;)

[Duran]

Just heard an interesting approach that may make a different in illegal immigration. Those caught crossing over are automatically drafted into the Army and sent to Iraq. Wonder how that would go over w/ everyone ;)

I'd hate to be in a platoon with them.

[Giantrobo]

How long have illegals been coming to the South and West of the US? Well over 18 years. They have a strong advocacy group in that region of the country.


Oh my god is that true. Many many politicians, like the New Mayor of LA and others, seem to be working more for illegals than people born here. Making sure they get breaks on School tuition, fighting for Driver's Licenses, and other pro illegal issues.

[VinVega]

VinVega, you fail to understand. The principal problem of illegal immigration is not in Texas, Arizona, California, etc. It's in Northern Virginia. :lol:
I thought it was in Southern Maryland. :(

:D

[LASERMOVIES]

Oh my god is that true. Many many politicians, like the New Mayor of LA and others, seem to be working more for illegals than people born here. Making sure they get breaks on School tuition, fighting for Driver's Licenses, and other pro illegal issues.

Here's some of the major organizations and their web sites. Don't forget the Mexican Government itself is also a big advocacy group.

National Council of La Raza - La Raza http://www.nclr.org/

Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund - MALDEF http://www.maldef.org/

League of United Latin American Citizens - LULAC http://www.lulac.org/

[shifrbv]

When folks in Texas, Arizona & California complain about illegal aliens - well they've got something to complain about.

Now when the folks from Virginia & Maryland complain about illegal aliens - well. They'd bitch if they were hung with a new rope

It's a problem in alot more areas than just the border states. I'm in Indiana and Tyson just opened up a new plant in one of the northern counties. The plant hires only hispanic people (because Tyson claims they are better workers and more reliable) and it has caused many problems. Hispanics have been flowing in from everywhere to work there as Indiana is rated one of the most desirable areas for immigrants to come. The county now has more hispanic people than locals and the schools are not equipped to handle all the kids who can't speak English. Not to mention half the town can't talk to the other half. It's happening in alot of counties that you would never think would have a larger foreign population than a native one.

The changes in just the last 10 years are staggering with the number of hispanics that have come and most of them are illegal which is why they decided to form a Mexican consulate office here so illegals could get bank accounts and ID cards.

[fujishig]

[B]
The changes in just the last 10 years are staggering with the number of hispanics that have come and most of them are illegal which is why they decided to form a Mexican consulate office here so illegals could get bank accounts and ID cards.

This (and the California initiatives) just boggle my mind. We know they're illegal, so help them get ID cards, or worse, drivers licenses. Let them drive around without car insurance (forcing me to get a non-insured drivers clause added to MY insurance). Let them work without paying taxes. Let them get breaks on tuition (why not, they're not paying taxes to fund the public schools anyway). What's the incentive to come here legally again?

I agree that a huge fence isn't going to work. But to make it easier for people who are, in essence, breaking our laws, that's crazy.

I never understood why public schools allow students that don't have SSNs, and no documentation.

[Gallant Pig]

This (and the California initiatives) just boggle my mind. We know they're illegal, so help them get ID cards, or worse, drivers licenses. Let them drive around without car insurance (forcing me to get a non-insured drivers clause added to MY insurance). Let them work without paying taxes. Let them get breaks on tuition (why not, they're not paying taxes to fund the public schools anyway). What's the incentive to come here legally again?

I agree that a huge fence isn't going to work. But to make it easier for people who are, in essence, breaking our laws, that's crazy.

I never understood why public schools allow students that don't have SSNs, and no documentation.

You make some good points. We aren't they ones giving them ID cards. Their consulates are doing that. Our businesses then accept those ID cards in place of driver's licenses. The IRS does however give them a SSN if they don't have one allowing them to pay taxes. These two things together let them get a house and many other things. At least that's what that business article ChiTown posted a few Immigrant Threads back.

[fujishig]

You make some good points. We aren't they ones giving them ID cards. Their consulates are doing that. Our businesses then accept those ID cards in place of driver's licenses. The IRS does however give them a SSN if they don't have one allowing them to pay taxes. These two things together let them get a house and many other things. At least that's what that business article ChiTown posted a few Immigrant Threads back.

So these are legal immigrants, I would assume? I mean, if the government is handing out SSNs to them and they're paying taxes, etc. So they would still be subject to minimum wage requirements, etc., and I don't see how much cheaper they could be then other citizens.

I didn't think they could hire only people of one race. Isn't that illegal?

[Gallant Pig]

So these are legal immigrants, I would assume? I mean, if the government is handing out SSNs to them and they're paying taxes, etc. So they would still be subject to minimum wage requirements, etc., and I don't see how much cheaper they could be then other citizens.

I didn't think they could hire only people of one race. Isn't that illegal?

I'm sorry you lost me? I don't think it's illegal for places to hire people of one race, otherwise Chinese restaurants around the country would cease to exist. ;)

[fujishig]

I'm sorry you lost me? I don't think it's illegal for places to hire people of one race, otherwise Chinese restaurants around the country would cease to exist. ;)


How ironic that the last time I went to a very popular authentic Chinese dumpling restaurant, there were hispanics making dumplings...

In the case of a Chinese restaurant, though, I can see them making a case about the language barrier being important. However, to hire one race and say (I would hope unofficially) that it's because they are "better workers and more reliable" is pretty racist, I'd think. I'm hoping the original poster was exaggerating a little when he said they only hire Hispanics.

[Canadian Bacon]

"if given the chance"?

:wtf:

our border policies are a joke!!!!!!!

[Gallant Pig]

"if given the chance"?

:wtf:

our border policies are a joke!!!!!!!

Actually the question by the PEW institute was "if given the chance to legally immigrate".

[I.Flores]

I saw the article in another website, and it said that the survey was made questioning "1,200 Mexican Adults"

Gimme a break.

You could interview 1'200,000 and still not get accurate results.


How can anyone take these shitty surveys seriously?

[Giantrobo]

I saw the article in another website, and it said that the survey was made questioning "1,200 Mexican Adults"

Gimme a break.

You could interview 1'200,000 and still not get accurate results.


How can anyone take these shitty surveys seriously?


Especially when it doesn't agree with your take. ;):lol:

Hey, I know the feeling man....

[I.Flores]

Especially when it doesn't agree with your take. ;):lol:

Hey, I know the feeling man....


Seriously, do you think that interviewing 1,200 is enough to get accurate results and stereotype an entire country?

[LASERMOVIES]

Seriously, do you think that interviewing 1,200 is enough to get accurate results and stereotype an entire country?

Why don't you ask the Pew Hispanic Center who did the survey. They claim the error margin is 3%. Many news agencies frequently quote their statistics, so they must think there numbers are reliable.

The Mexico survey results were based on household interviews in 120 locations in February and May. The error margin is plus or minus 3 percent.

However, I think the survey is flawed since it is only counting adults, while the children they would bring are not factored into the equation. I believe even more would consider leaving if areas they lived in suddenly emptied out from mass immigration to the United States. Here's the complete survey in a pdf file.

http://pewhispanic.org/files/reports/52.pdf

[Giantrobo]

Seriously, do you think that interviewing 1,200 is enough to get accurate results and stereotype an entire country?


To be honest I didn't need a survey to tell me that. The Mexican Gov has shit on it's poeple for so long and the US Gov hands out rewards for sneaking in so why would they want to stay in Mexico?

[OldDude]

Seriously, do you think that interviewing 1,200 is enough to get accurate results and stereotype an entire country?


So, uhh, do election polls reasonably predict how people are going to vote? They are about the same size.

[shifrbv]

However, to hire one race and say (I would hope unofficially) that it's because they are "better workers and more reliable" is pretty racist, I'd think

There was a huge trial against Tyson because of it. They claimed the workers were better and more reliable, but in the end, the courts found that they were hiring illegals because they could do the work for much less than the locals.

There's also alot of problems because people who are here legally are trying to bring all of their family members over with them and get them jobs as well (legally or oftentimes, illegally). It's a huge net effect.

I think it's fairly easy for illegals to get jobs. A guy I used to know was working for an engineering firm who was sponsoring him while he was trying to obtain his green card. His wife was able to get a job at a pharmacy (she had a degree in pharmacy from Mexico). It was no problem for her to be working there even though he didn't have it.

In the subdivision where I'm located, all new houses are basically framed, bricked, drywalled, painted, and landscaped by all-hispanic crews. I'm pretty sure most of them are not legal.

[Red Dog]

This one is for c-man:
Gov. Warner urged to declare emergency in illegals crisis (http://www.washtimes.com/functions/print.php?StoryID=20050824-121438-8125r)

[DodgingCars]

This one is for c-man:
Gov. Warner urged to declare emergency in illegals crisis (http://www.washtimes.com/functions/print.php?StoryID=20050824-121438-8125r)

Virginians... you can now join the debate!

[Gallant Pig]

This one is for c-man:
Gov. Warner urged to declare emergency in illegals crisis (http://www.washtimes.com/functions/print.php?StoryID=20050824-121438-8125r)

What do the numbers look like there?

[Red Dog]

What do the numbers look like there?


The article says conservative estimates are 100-200K (Va's pop is about 7M total). I'd venture to guess that 90% of that 100-200K is in NOVA.