New Mexico declares border emergency. Mexico gets mad.

[mikehunt]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/12/newmexico/
Border emergency declared in New Mexico
Governor says area 'devastated' by human and drug smuggling

Saturday, August 13, 2005; Posted: 2:07 a.m. EDT (06:07 GMT)
(CNN) -- New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson declared a state of emergency Friday in four counties along the Mexican border that he said have been "devastated" by crimes such as the smuggling of drugs and illegal immigrants.

The declaration said the region "has been devastated by the ravages and terror of human smuggling, drug smuggling, kidnapping, murder, destruction of property and the death of livestock. ...

"[It] is in an extreme state of disrepair and is inadequately funded or safeguarded to protect the lives and property of New Mexican citizens."

New Mexico shares 180 miles of border with the Mexican state of Chihuahua.

"The situation is out of hand," Richardson said Friday night on CNN, noting that one 54-mile stretch is particularly bad.

The Mexican government issued a statement in which it acknowledged the problems along the border, but said it continues to make consistent efforts to target them along with U.S. authorities.

It said some of Richardson's views stem from "generalizations that do not correspond to the spirit of cooperation and understanding that are required for dealing with problems of common concern along the border."

Richardson's declaration makes $750,000 in state emergency funds available to Dona Ana, Luna, Grant and Hidalgo counties.

Richardson pledged an additional $1 million in assistance for the area, his office said in a news release.

He said on CNN that the funds will be used to hire additional law enforcement personnel and pay officers overtime.

In announcing the state of emergency, Richardson -- a Democrat who served in President Clinton's Cabinet -- criticized the "total inaction and lack of resources from the federal government and Congress" in helping protect his state's residents along the border.

"There's very little response from the Border Patrol," he said on CNN. "They're doing a good job, but they don't have the resources."

The governor announced the move after a helicopter and ground tour of the border near Columbus, New Mexico, the statement said.

He said on CNN that he "saw the trails where these illegal routes take place" as well as fenced areas along the border where the fence is "literally nonexistent."

According to Richardson's statement announcing the declaration, "Recent developments have convinced me this action is necessary -- including violence directed at law enforcement, damage to property and livestock, increased evidence of drug smuggling, and an increase in the number of undocumented immigrants."

He called on Mexico to "bulldoze the abandoned town of Las Chepas, which is directly over the border from Columbus."

The statement went on to say that "Las Chepas is a notorious staging and resting area for those who smuggle drugs and immigrants into the United States."

Some of the pledged funds will be used to create a field office for the New Mexico Office of Homeland Security to focus specifically on the border.

There will also be new efforts to protect livestock in the area near Columbus, "along a favorite path for illegal immigration where a number of livestock have been stolen and killed," the statement said.

Richardson said he wanted residents of the four counties "to know my administration is doing everything it can to protect them."

Alejandro Cano, secretary of industrial development for the Mexican state of Chihuahua -- which borders New Mexico -- pledged to support Richardson's efforts, the statement said.

Richardson told CNN he met with Mexican governors several weeks ago on border security.

"My people on my side asked me to take this step, and I've done so reluctantly," Richardson told CNN. "As governor, I have to protect the people I represent."

He noted he is the nation's only Hispanic governor, and "we're a state that's been very good to legal migrants. ... This action, I believe, had to be taken."

The Mexican Foreign Ministry sent Richardson a letter Friday saying it has requested that Mexican consuls in Albuquerque and El Paso, Texas, meet "as soon as possible" with New Mexico officials "to promote pertinent action by the authorities of both countries in the framework of existing institutional mechanisms."

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/mexico/20050812-1821-mexico-borderfences.html
Mexican government criticizes New Mexico border emergency declaration
Save a link to this article and return to it at www.savethis.comSave a link to this article and return to it at www.savethis.com Email a link to this articleEmail a link to this article Printer-friendly version of this articlePrinter-friendly version of this article View a list of the most popular articles on our siteView a list of the most popular articles on our site

ASSOCIATED PRESS

6:21 p.m. August 12, 2005

MEXICO CITY – The Mexican government criticized New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson's decision Friday to declare states of emergency in four border counties due to crime and migration, a move that free up funds to fence an area near the border.

Mexico said the declarations "don't jibe with the spirit of cooperation and understanding" and ordered its consul in Albuquerque to meet with New Mexico officials "to promote appropriate actions by the officials of both countries."

Richardson cited "violence directed at law enforcement, damage to property and livestock, increased evidence of drug smuggling and an increase in the number of undocumented immigrants" in declaring the emergency.

He said the border security situation "constitutes an emergency condition with potentially catastrophic consequences."

Mexico has long opposed any increased border fencing, and is also sensitive to U.S. criticism about rising violence in Nuevo Laredo, to the east on the Texas border.

"The Mexican government considers that some of the New Mexico government's statements are generalizations which don't jibe with the spirit of cooperation and understanding needed to address border problems," Mexico's Foreign Relations Department said in a press statement.

Richardson's executive order, makes US$750,000 immediately available to Dona Ana, Luna, Grant and Hidalgo counties, along with a pledge of an additional US$1 million.

The money will aid state and area law enforcement efforts, fund a field office for the state Office of Homeland Security and help build a fence to protect a Columbus-area livestock yard where a number of cattle have been killed or stolen.

The funds will finance an 11-foot, razor wire-topped security fence around the stockyards. It will replace a shorter, barbed-wire fence that Richardson said "is so full of holes and gaps that trucks and people can cross with no control."

[Forum Troll]

More evidence that we need to completely close the border with Mexico. Illegal immegrants receive more government benefits and have more legal rights than I do as a natural-born citizen.

[LASERMOVIES]

I thought it had something to do with the shirts.

http://images.ibsys.com/2005/0722/4758572_400X300.jpg


www.adl.org (http://www.adl.org/PresRele/Mise_00/4762_00.htm)

ADL Asks Urban Outfitters to Discontinue Insensitive New Mexico T-shirt


Albuquerque, NM, July 21, 2005 … The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) today asked the Philadelphia-based retailer Urban Outfitters to discontinue the t-shirt in their current line bearing the message "New Mexico, Cleaner than Regular Mexico".

In a letter to Urban Outfitters CEO Richard Hayne, Barry Morrison, Philadelphia ADL Regional Director, expressed his concern that the message is offensive. "It is an inappropriate and unnecessary disparagement of that country, and people identified with the country should not be subjected to this type of ridicule and debasing reference."

Morrison asked that Urban Outfitters discontinue this item and remove any existing stock. He also wrote that the company seems to have continuing problems regarding racial, religious and ethnic sensibilities, suggesting that Urban Outfitters "seriously consider undertaking diversity training of your personnel."

Susan Seligman, ADL New Mexico Director noted, "Insensitivity is never in style. It is unfortunate that Urban Outfitter's design and marketing teams think being offensive is a fashion statement."

In January 2004, Urban Outfitters discontinued production of a t-shirt that perpetuated an ethnic stereotype of Jews. The shirt featured the language, "Everyone Loves A Jewish Girl," surrounded by dollar signs and shopping bags.

[DVD Polizei]

More evidence that we need to completely close the border with Mexico. Illegal immegrants receive more government benefits and have more legal rights than I do as a natural-born citizen.

As long as Bush or anyone affiliated with this administration is in power, this will never happen. Gotta love the irony in this case. A President who was in office during 9/11 and yet hardly ever acknowledges the problems along the borders of his own country.

[Cameron]

There's a New Mexico?
http://www.simpsoncrazy.com/homer/35.gif

[Nick Danger]

Governor Richardson is running for president. He's a Democrat, so he's throwing a little red meat to the right while it's still early. Come primary season, he's going to have to play to the left if he wants the nomination.

[Giantrobo]

More evidence that we need to completely close the border with Mexico.

You know, i'm starting to think we should just take Mexico and make it a 51st state. Then go in and clean out what little government they have, set up our own Governership to run things, and then tax the hell out of the people like we do to American Citizens stateside.

[AGuyNamedMike]

You know, i'm starting to think we should just take Mexico and make it a 51st state. Then go in and clean out what little government they have, set up our own Governership to run things, and then tax the hell out of the people like we do to American Citizens stateside.

I see what you're saying, but even if we were to nationalize PEMEX we would never be able to afford to provide U.S. style welfare to the hordes of Mexican poor.

[Giantrobo]

I see what you're saying, but even if we were to nationalize PEMEX we would never be able to afford to provide U.S. style welfare to the hordes of Mexican poor.


yeah but it'll be easier to tax the cheap labor when they work and a lot of that "under the table" shit will end. So who knows...

[Lemdog]

Bill Richardson gains more points in my book.

[The Bus]

You know, i'm starting to think we should just take Mexico and make it a 51st state. Then go in and clean out what little government they have, set up our own Governership to run things

We've been trying that for the past 150 years.

[BradJ]

At first I thought the article was from 'The Onion' or something, by the title... like, Mexico was mad that New Mexico was stealing their attention...

that would have been a much more entertaining news story. :)

[Tracer Bullet]

You know, i'm starting to think we should just take Mexico and make it a 51st state. Then go in and clean out what little government they have, set up our own Governership to run things, and then tax the hell out of the people like we do to American Citizens stateside.

We could have done it after the Spanish-American War. I'm starting to think we should have.

[sracer]

I say we extract our troops in Iraq, declare that the WAR ON TERROR has moved to Mexico and take it from there.

[Gallant Pig]

What a whiner, all the real shit is going down in Texas border right now.

[Myster X]

We need a wall

[I.Flores]

*--sigh--*

I won't even bother.

:grumble: :brickwl2:

[DVD Polizei]

I say we extract our troops in Iraq, declare that the WAR ON TERROR has moved to Mexico and take it from there.

Common sense would dictate such a move, but hey, how can the US corporations who funnel their manufacturing to Mexico, survive? :(

I can live without my JuMex. Make that wall! :up:

[Breakfast with Girls]

*--sigh--*

I won't even bother.

:grumble: :brickwl2:Okay.

[Giantrobo]

*--sigh--*

I won't even bother.

:grumble: :brickwl2:

Believe me, anti-<i>illegal</i> immigration folks know that feeling...

[DVD Polizei]

Well, technically that dude hitting his head against the wall...if he was illegal, he'd be tunneling under it...:)

[I.Flores]

Well, technically that dude hitting his head against the wall...if he was illegal, he'd be tunneling under it...:)

I'm neither legal nor illegal.

Don't wish to be either.

Heck, I don't even live in the US.

[I.Flores]

Believe me, anti-<i>illegal</i> immigration folks know that feeling...


I'm not anti or pro illegal immigration. Don't even care.
I just hate when there's responsibility on both sides of the fence and everyone places the blame on just one side.

[DVD Polizei]

I think we're placing blame on not only Mexico, but Bush as well. Which seems fair to me.

[DonnachaOne]

We need a wall
It's an idea, but it does nothing to stop the growing problem of immigrant birds.

[DVD Polizei]

Illegal bird doo-doo is quite disgusting. At least that's what a legal immigrant bird told me one day while I was sitting in the park.

[I.Flores]

I think we're placing blame on not only Mexico, but Bush as well. Which seems fair to me.


Not Bush, but the whole system.

[natevines]

Not Bush, but the whole system.

Yes, the whole system of America not securing its borders.
Indeed, ridiculous.

[Ranger]

It's an idea, but it does nothing to stop the growing problem of immigrant birds.
Agreed.

[BigDaddy]

I'm neither legal nor illegal.

Don't wish to be either.

Heck, I don't even live in the US.


Why does your location say Texas then?

[I.Flores]

Why does your location say Texas then?


Because I have a customs broker agency in the Piedras Negras, MX/ Eagle pass TX border.

[kvrdave]

New Mexico or Arizona (won't be California) needs to take the initiative and build a 10 foot razor wire fence, with a 20 foot moat, and another 10 foot razor wire fence at the end of that. I am surprised the citizens have not put forth an initiative to do this. If they would quit complaining, and actually do something like that, the others would see how much good it has done. And I would vote for the person responsible to become the next president.

It sucks that Bush is such a bitch for Mexico. In the next election I hope to hear a candidate make the Mexican border his/her prime focus, and I will vote for them regardless of party (unless it is a third party, naturally).

[Giantrobo]

I'm not anti or pro illegal immigration.

:confused:


Don't even care.
I just hate when there's responsibility on both sides of the fence and everyone places the blame on just one side.

huh? apparently you read the anti <i>illegal</i> immigration posts here on dvdtalk selectively.

We're well aware of the crap people do here on this side of the border to bring more illegals here so they can EXPLOIT them. The Republicans and the Democrats both do much to keep the flow of illegals coming in. Neither party is interested in stopping this even when we see the results of this mass influx of people.

[Goldblum]

I would like to see the border closed. We'll survive without all the economic "help" Mexico gives us.

[DVD Polizei]

Oregon and Washington won't survive. We need our Mexi-Meth. :up:

[Goldblum]

Oregon and Washington won't survive. We need our Mexi-Meth. :up:
How 'bout this instead: you supply the sudafed, i'll supply the meth.

[wm lopez]

Mexicans have been crossing for many decades under Democrats & Republicans presidents and nobody has made an uproar about it. And I don't believe it's 9/11.
I truly believe it has to do with mexicans moving into white area neighborhoods and changing the neighborhood. By this I mean about 3 families move into single family homes and you get about 5 cars parked in front of city streets instead of the normal 1 per home. This also brings overcrowding schools and for some reason the kids from these hard working families who move into nice areas decide to join gangs and that brings graffiti and drive-by shootings.
In the Chicago area suburbs you have suburbs that are like inner city shitholes.
No excuse for a suburb that was beautiful to turn into war-zones and that's what i believe is the main worry that has U.S. citizins upset not terrorists sneeking in.
But if they were to voice their true feelings they would be called "racsists".

[kvrdave]

Mexicans have been crossing for many decades under Democrats & Republicans presidents and nobody has made an uproar about it. And I don't believe it's 9/11.
I truly believe it has to do with mexicans moving into white area neighborhoods and changing the neighborhood. By this I mean about 3 families move into single family homes and you get about 5 cars parked in front of city streets instead of the normal 1 per home. This also brings overcrowding schools and for some reason the kids from these hard working families who move into nice areas decide to join gangs and that brings graffiti and drive-by shootings.
In the Chicago area suburbs you have suburbs that are like inner city shitholes.
No excuse for a suburb that was beautiful to turn into war-zones and that's what i believe is the main worry that has U.S. citizins upset not terrorists sneeking in.
But if they were to voice their true feelings they would be called "racsists".

I am sure there is some truth to that. I know that many schools have problems because they effectively have to pay a person to be with spanish speaking students all day so they can tell them what is going on. It is a pretty big financial drain.

[OldDude]

New Mexico or Arizona (won't be California) needs to take the initiative and build a 10 foot razor wire fence, with a 20 foot moat, and another 10 foot razor wire fence at the end of that.

They probably can't manage the water to flood the moat. But not to worry, we have an ally in the MidEast with a good border wall design, well suited to deserts. I'm sure they'd let us use the plans.

[VinVega]

New Mexico or Arizona (won't be California) needs to take the initiative and build a 10 foot razor wire fence, with a 20 foot moat, and another 10 foot razor wire fence at the end of that. I am surprised the citizens have not put forth an initiative to do this. If they would quit complaining, and actually do something like that, the others would see how much good it has done. And I would vote for the person responsible to become the next president.

It sucks that Bush is such a bitch for Mexico. In the next election I hope to hear a candidate make the Mexican border his/her prime focus, and I will vote for them regardless of party (unless it is a third party, naturally).
As far as the wall and the moat, I'd bet that they could dig under that bitch. Just a hunch. ;)

As far as your second statement, I couldn't agree more. If a Republican came out and honestly made this a major plank of their platform, I would seriously have to consider voting for him or her. It would be a fairly popular idea for the average voter I think.

[DodgingCars]

Mexicans have been crossing for many decades under Democrats & Republicans presidents and nobody has made an uproar about it. And I don't believe it's 9/11.
I truly believe it has to do with mexicans moving into white area neighborhoods and changing the neighborhood. By this I mean about 3 families move into single family homes and you get about 5 cars parked in front of city streets instead of the normal 1 per home. This also brings overcrowding schools and for some reason the kids from these hard working families who move into nice areas decide to join gangs and that brings graffiti and drive-by shootings.
In the Chicago area suburbs you have suburbs that are like inner city shitholes.
No excuse for a suburb that was beautiful to turn into war-zones and that's what i believe is the main worry that has U.S. citizins upset not terrorists sneeking in.
But if they were to voice their true feelings they would be called "racsists".

I think there are many many reasons. I think the uncontrolled population growth, the language problems, the overcrowded schools, the uninsured motorists, the crowded emergency rooms (for non emergencies), the using services without equal pay in taxes, the over-crowded apartments and houses, the competition for lower-wage jobs (believe it or not, non-illegals do compete for day-labor jobs, maids, etc.), gangs, the injustice of illegals getting in while law-abiding people are deported because they get laid-off or are never let in in the first place, the drug smuggling, the trespassing, etc. etc. etc. all play a role in people's frustration with illegal immigration.

[Gallant Pig]

Mexicans have been crossing for many decades under Democrats & Republicans presidents and nobody has made an uproar about it. And I don't believe it's 9/11.
I truly believe it has to do with mexicans moving into white area neighborhoods and changing the neighborhood. By this I mean about 3 families move into single family homes and you get about 5 cars parked in front of city streets instead of the normal 1 per home. This also brings overcrowding schools and for some reason the kids from these hard working families who move into nice areas decide to join gangs and that brings graffiti and drive-by shootings.
In the Chicago area suburbs you have suburbs that are like inner city shitholes.
No excuse for a suburb that was beautiful to turn into war-zones and that's what i believe is the main worry that has U.S. citizins upset not terrorists sneeking in.
But if they were to voice their true feelings they would be called "racsists".

I'd say this is a pretty fair and honest post. I have no problem with this country fixing the illegal problem, but doing it under the guise if national security is weak. Let's call a spade a spade.

[Gallant Pig]

I think the anti-immigration folks here are dreaming if they think a fence or massive deportation will ever happen. Do you guys realize there are a couple of things our country could do and the problem would be greatly improved, and it involves neither of the above? If you want people to take you seriously, you have to sound sane to begin with.

[Gallant Pig]

I would like to see the border closed. We'll survive without all the economic "help" Mexico gives us.

Wake up, it's never going to happen. A giant fence across thousands of miles? And after that the tunnels will come making the whole thing worthless.

[kvrdave]

As far as the wall and the moat, I'd bet that they could dig under that bitch. Just a hunch. ;)


I think it could be done. After all, we are using public funds. :lol: I would probably put the fence in a concrete foundation that is roughly 2-4 feet thick and runs down at least 10 feet. Basically, I would have a "Berlin Wall" going underneath the ground, about 20 feet in between the two fences that simply had a "dry moat" roughly 20 feet deep. That makes doing the concrete foundation easier, and also gives a 30 foot drop from the first, and a 30 fence for the second. I think I would also use motion sensitive cameras. Given the time it would take to get through it all, I think you could have a helicopter out in plenty of time.

[Gallant Pig]

I think it could be done. After all, we are using public funds. :lol: I would probably put the fence in a concrete foundation that is roughly 2-4 feet thick and runs down at least 10 feet. Basically, I would have a "Berlin Wall" going underneath the ground, about 20 feet in between the two fences that simply had a "dry moat" roughly 20 feet deep. That makes doing the concrete foundation easier, and also gives a 30 foot drop from the first, and a 30 fence for the second. I think I would also use motion sensitive cameras. Given the time it would take to get through it all, I think you could have a helicopter out in plenty of time.

What about people who float in on rafts from the Pacific or the Gulf of Mexico?

[mikehunt]

it is too a security concern
http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/?feed=TopNews&article=UPI-1-20050726-12054400-bc-us-illegals.xml
Some 65,000 non-Mexican illegal aliens crossed the U.S. border last year -- 644 from "countries of concern," Border Patrol Chief David Aguilar told a House committee recently.

[Gallant Pig]

it is too a security concern
http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/?feed=TopNews&article=UPI-1-20050726-12054400-bc-us-illegals.xml

No offense, but all of the guys who crashed planes into this country didn't have to sneak in through Mexico. In fact that's the last thing I would think they'd risk doing, since they have a chance of being picked up by the border patrol and getting captured. It doesn't make sense at all. The next attack will probably be similar to what happened in London, by residents and citizens.

But wait! If we could absolutely close down the thousands of miles in the south, there's still thousands and thousands of more miles up North, roads that travel in and out of this country with no border police at all. Probably some by where you live in NY. We'd have to shut down the entire northern border too, build an equally as large wall. Also last time I checked, people frequently float into south florida. We'll have to put a giant wall there also, along South Beach and the thousands of miles of land there, and probably sink or destroy the Florida Keys, in the name of a safe border.

Oh wait, it's super easy to get a student visa in this country isn't it? Like those guys from United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia did, before they attacked our nation. Wow, they'd never do that again.... or would they????

And way, there's quite a few folks who already live here probably partial to OBL and his teachings, in fact they probably live amongst us. They don't even need a visa, they have a green card and work for good companies. Like those guys in London. Hmm..... I bet they'd never be apart of anything that would be bad for this country. Oh wait, those guys in London already did something similar... Hmm oh well, as long as the borders are shut down I'll feel safe as a bug in a rug.

OH yeah, what's a country of concern, Guatemala?

[Breakfast with Girls]

I think the anti-immigration folks here are dreaming if they think a fence or massive deportation will ever happen.Yes.

Do you guys realize there are a couple of things our country could do and the problem would be greatly improved, and it involves neither of the above?So post your solution, instead of hinting around. :)

[Giantrobo]

Wake up, it's never going to happen. A giant fence across thousands of miles? And after that the tunnels will come making the whole thing worthless.


I think the "Wall" thing is simply an ongoing joke because we all know that -NO ONE- in Government will do anything about Illegal Immigration.

[Giantrobo]

What about people who float in on rafts from the Pacific or the Gulf of Mexico?

Not nearly the same. Far more are walking over the border compared to people floating to our shores.

But then again, there's Florida .... :p

[Giantrobo]

No offense, but all of the guys who crashed planes into this country didn't have to sneak in through Mexico. In fact that's the last thing I would think they'd risk doing, since they have a chance of being picked up by the border patrol and getting captured. It doesn't make sense at all. The next attack will probably be similar to what happened in London, by residents and citizens.

But wait! If we could absolutely close down the thousands of miles in the south, there's still thousands and thousands of more miles up North, roads that travel in and out of this country with no border police at all. Probably some by where you live in NY. We'd have to shut down the entire northern border too, build an equally as large wall. Also last time I checked, people frequently float into south florida. We'll have to put a giant wall there also, along South Beach and the thousands of miles of land there, and probably sink or destroy the Florida Keys, in the name of a safe border.

Oh wait, it's super easy to get a student visa in this country isn't it? Like those guys from United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia did, before they attacked our nation. Wow, they'd never do that again.... or would they????

And way, there's quite a few folks who already live here probably partial to OBL and his teachings, in fact they probably live amongst us. They don't even need a visa, they have a green card and work for good companies. Like those guys in London. Hmm..... I bet they'd never be apart of anything that would be bad for this country. Oh wait, those guys in London already did something similar... Hmm oh well, as long as the borders are shut down I'll feel safe as a bug in a rug.

OH yeah, what's a country of concern, Guatemala?

What's your point? Should we just ignore the border? You just blow off reports of "people from countries of concern" like it didn't happen. Everyone in the World knows the Southern borders of the US are open doors and that it's easy to sneak in.

If you know you've got hole in your fence and you say you're concerned about your security then why would you ignore the hole?

[JasonF]

We could have done it after the Spanish-American War. I'm starting to think we should have.

Mexico declared independence from Spain 75 years before the Spanish-American war. And 50 years before the Spanish-American War we invaded Mexico over a border dispute with Texas and took half their territory (modern-day California, Nevada, and Utah, and most of Arizona, New Mexico, and Colorado).

[Tracer Bullet]

Mexico declared independence from Spain 75 years before the Spanish-American war. And 50 years before the Spanish-American War we invaded Mexico over a border dispute with Texas and took half their territory (modern-day California, Nevada, and Utah, and most of Arizona, New Mexico, and Colorado).

You know, I was sitting here trying to figure out what you were talking about, then I realized what I originally typed. I meant the Mexican-American War. :p

[JasonF]

You know, I was sitting here trying to figure out what you were talking about, then I realized what I originally typed. I meant the Mexican-American War. :p

That makes more sense, then. :)

I wonder what the Civil War would have been like if we had conquered Mexico in 1848?

[kvrdave]

What about people who float in on rafts from the Pacific or the Gulf of Mexico?


To get to New Mexico?

[Tracer Bullet]

That makes more sense, then. :)

I wonder what the Civil War would have been like if we had conquered Mexico in 1848?

Now that's an interesting question. I doubt that any former Mexican territory would have been granted statehood by 1861.

[E70f]

Wake up, it's never going to happen. A giant fence across thousands of miles? And after that the tunnels will come making the whole thing worthless.

Australia has a giant fence across thousands of miles. Dingoes can dig tunnels too. Seems to work well for the Aussies, and they don't even supplement their fence with 10,000 highly mobile soldiers with the best motion detecting hardware the most advanced country on the planet can produce.

[kvrdave]

Australia has a giant fence across thousands of miles. Dingoes can dig tunnels too. Seems to work well for the Aussies, and they don't even supplement their fence with 10,000 highly mobile soldiers with the best motion detecting hardware the most advanced country on the planet can produce.

And they still got the baby. :(

[E70f]

That baby was playing within the DMZ (Dingo Munching Zone).

[Gallant Pig]

Yes.

So post your solution, instead of hinting around. :)

I have in the past, a few times. :) I'll post it maybe tonight if I have some time.

[Gallant Pig]

What's your point? Should we just ignore the border? You just blow off reports of "people from countries of concern" like it didn't happen. Everyone in the World knows the Southern borders of the US are open doors and that it's easy to sneak in.

If you know you've got hole in your fence and you say you're concerned about your security then why would you ignore the hole?

I'd have no problem with bumping up our vigilence on the border as long as it included patching the glaring holes in the northern border. Why would we only focus in on one giant whole and 2 exist?

[Gallant Pig]

To get to New Mexico?

No, the US Silly Pants.

[kvrdave]

No, the US Silly Pants.

That's what I thought you meant. I would do this for New Mexico, and once the other states see that it works (and I believe most illegals would look for an easier path than my Border of DOOM), the other states, and maybe the Fed, would take notice and do something.

[Gallant Pig]

Not nearly the same. Far more are walking over the border compared to people floating to our shores.

But then again, there's Florida .... :p


Right, the Haitians and Cubans don't have a problem floating in. Read my post again Robo. It makes sense. If we make the worlds largest, scariest wall, then the methods will change to other stuff, tunneling, floating, etc. I'd like to see how much a giant fence will cost, especially an effective one like Spelunker Dave spoke of.

[Pharoh]

Just wanted to give a :up: to GP. Excellent work.

[Gallant Pig]

That's what I thought you meant. I would do this for New Mexico, and once the other states see that it works (and I believe most illegals would look for an easier path than my Border of DOOM), the other states, and maybe the Fed, would take notice and do something.

OK I see where you are coming from. My feeling is this, first they'll switch to Cali & Texas, and Arizona. If those states follow suit, then things would change. It would keep the numbers down, but my assertion is there are far less dramatic and costly things we could do to drop the numbers of folks coming in. If those things don't work, then we need to take it up a notch.

OK guys back to work.

[Gallant Pig]

Just wanted to give a :up: to GP. Excellent work.

Thanks! OK back to work for real this time.

[Goldblum]

I'd have no problem with bumping up our vigilence on the border as long as it included patching the glaring holes in the northern border. Why would we only focus in on one giant whole and 2 exist?
Not that I disagree with you, but Canada's immigration controls are much more strict than Mexico's.

[E70f]

Not that I disagree with you, but Canada's immigration controls are much more strict than Mexico's.

Not so sure about that, Mexico's southern border is pretty damn tight. This is because Mexico don't want people flooding in from the south, in waves of uncontrolled illegal immigration. Maybe they're concerned it might fuck up their country :confused:

[JasonF]

Now that's an interesting question. I doubt that any former Mexican territory would have been granted statehood by 1861.

Well, California was, but it was full of gold. Nevada became a state in 1864, but that was a political move designed to ensure Lincoln's re-election.

But even if Mexico was just a territory, I think the Civil War would have gone a lot quicker. Mexico was anti-slavery, and with the ability to come at the south up through Texas, we could have caught the confederacy in a vise and squeezed until they surrendered.

[Gallant Pig]

Not that I disagree with you, but Canada's immigration controls are much more strict than Mexico's.


I've heard this before but I'm not sure what it means exactly. Do you guys think the terrorists will be sneaking in through Guatemala and come up that way?

[wm lopez]

I remember in the 1990's reading in the newspaper how people were upset about too many illigals in states down south. At the time I thought oh big deal just let them be.
Well, now in 2005 I see what had them all upset.
Since now there are many illigals in my area and the problems which I posted on my earlier post have changed my suburb from the peace & quite and clean suburb it used to be.
When I moved where I'm at in 1988 they used to fine you if you didn't keep your propberty clean or keep your garbage inside the trash container.
They did away that and it's a rat problem now.

[Gallant Pig]

Why don't the cities make ordinances against this behavior?

[DodgingCars]

I think the anti-immigration,

Is that the opposite of pro-criminal?

[Gallant Pig]

Nah, a typo.

[Giantrobo]

I'd have no problem with bumping up our vigilence on the border as long as it included patching the glaring holes in the northern border. Why would we only focus in on one giant whole and 2 exist?


I'm for watching ALL borders. Mexico isn't the only country that has illegals traveling here. From what I understand each border of the U.S. has different groups coming in. i.e. the West Coast states will often see Chinese and other Asian cultures coming in by ship. They busted a cargo ship with illegal Chinese in a cargo trailer several weeks ago here in So Cal. The North Eastern states have illegals from Europe, Africa, and Eastern Block countries. And so on and son on...

However, I don't think anyone can deny that Mexico and S. America have the most illegals heading this way. It's simply a matter of geography and ease of travel. Also, since I'm in California naturally I'm gonna bitch about what's going on here. Just like other dvdtalk members who live in states that aren't a primary destination for illegals hardly even care about the problem. They aren't being affected like we are.

Plus, lets face it. Middle Easterners can often pass for Latinos so sneaking here through Mexico up through our porous border is actually be a good idea. That's what I would do....

[Giantrobo]

Right, the Haitians and Cubans don't have a problem floating in. Read my post again Robo. It makes sense. If we make the worlds largest, scariest wall, then the methods will change to other stuff, tunneling, floating, etc. I'd like to see how much a giant fence will cost, especially an effective one like Spelunker Dave spoke of.


No, YOU read MY post again. I don't think a Wall will work and I still think the posters are just joking because like I said...NO ONE in Government is going to do a gawd damn thing about ILLEGAL immigration and they know this.

[Giantrobo]

Nbut Canada's immigration controls are much more strict than Mexico's.


and the irony is so is Mexico's immigration controls on their Southern border. Central Americans coming through Mexico's Southern Border aren't treated well.

But for some reason America is just supposed to look the other way when it comes to our Southern Border....

[mikehunt]

No offense, but all of the guys who crashed planes into this country didn't have to sneak in through Mexico. In fact that's the last thing I would think they'd risk doing, since they have a chance of being picked up by the border patrol and getting captured. It doesn't make sense at all. The next attack will probably be similar to what happened in London, by residents and citizens.

But wait! If we could absolutely close down the thousands of miles in the south, there's still thousands and thousands of more miles up North, roads that travel in and out of this country with no border police at all. Probably some by where you live in NY. We'd have to shut down the entire northern border too, build an equally as large wall. Also last time I checked, people frequently float into south florida. We'll have to put a giant wall there also, along South Beach and the thousands of miles of land there, and probably sink or destroy the Florida Keys, in the name of a safe border.

Oh wait, it's super easy to get a student visa in this country isn't it? Like those guys from United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia did, before they attacked our nation. Wow, they'd never do that again.... or would they????

And way, there's quite a few folks who already live here probably partial to OBL and his teachings, in fact they probably live amongst us. They don't even need a visa, they have a green card and work for good companies. Like those guys in London. Hmm..... I bet they'd never be apart of anything that would be bad for this country. Oh wait, those guys in London already did something similar... Hmm oh well, as long as the borders are shut down I'll feel safe as a bug in a rug.

OH yeah, what's a country of concern, Guatemala?

yeah the canadian border is open and barren too, but you don't hear about tons of people coming across it. The section of border here is all water, so the few roads do have border checkpoints.
The countries I heard mentioned on the news included a bunch of middle east arab ones, those were the countries of concern

[Gallant Pig]

yeah the canadian border is open and barren too, but you don't hear about tons of people coming across it. The section of border here is all water, so the few roads do have border checkpoints.
The countries I heard mentioned on the news included a bunch of middle east arab ones, those were the countries of concern


It's pretty desolate up there, I don't think anyone would even see you pass if you happened to do so.

What's the deal with these middle eastern folks coming in through the border? I take it they've been getting caught if we know about them coming? If so, what's their story? Down on their luck folks or what? I don't get it.

[mikehunt]

yeah some got caught, but then they released with a promise to show up to court, which they never do. So would be terrorists would have nothing to fear from getting caught as they'd just get released and be on their way

[Tracer Bullet]

Well, California was, but it was full of gold. Nevada became a state in 1864, but that was a political move designed to ensure Lincoln's re-election.

But even if Mexico was just a territory, I think the Civil War would have gone a lot quicker. Mexico was anti-slavery, and with the ability to come at the south up through Texas, we could have caught the confederacy in a vise and squeezed until they surrendered.

Most likely. It all depends on how many troops the Union would have had in the former Mexican territories. I must admit I don't have much knowledge of Mexican history, so I can't really speculate on how quickly it would have been assimilated, etc. For some reason I don't think it would have happened as quickly as California or Texas, both of which were singular places.

[SuprVgeta]

Well, one governor finally gets it... it's a start. We need to just build a big damn wall.

[Gallant Pig]

Well, one governor finally gets it... it's a start. We need to just build a big damn wall.

Nah, he's just pandering for votes. He says whatever he thinks will gain him the most popularity like most politicians, especially the ones who come from the acting background.

[Gallant Pig]

I'm for watching ALL borders. Mexico isn't the only country that has illegals traveling here. From what I understand each border of the U.S. has different groups coming in. i.e. the West Coast states will often see Chinese and other Asian cultures coming in by ship. They busted a cargo ship with illegal Chinese in a cargo trailer several weeks ago here in So Cal. The North Eastern states have illegals from Europe, Africa, and Eastern Block countries. And so on and son on...

However, I don't think anyone can deny that Mexico and S. America have the most illegals heading this way. It's simply a matter of geography and ease of travel. Also, since I'm in California naturally I'm gonna bitch about what's going on here. Just like other dvdtalk members who live in states that aren't a primary destination for illegals hardly even care about the problem. They aren't being affected like we are.

Plus, lets face it. Middle Easterners can often pass for Latinos so sneaking here through Mexico up through our porous border is actually be a good idea. That's what I would do....


Obviously the most illegals are coming from the south, bar none. I'll stand by my claim that both borders are an equal threat to national security. And in reality, the borders are rather meaningless since the terrorists we have to worry about are much more sophisticated than to sneak across the border to begin with.

[mikehunt]

not to be outdone
http://www.kvia.com/Global/story.asp?S=3725535
Arizona governor declares emergency for border

PHOENIX Arizona Governor Janet Napolitano has declared an emergency in four border counties.
Citing problems related to lax border enforcement, she moved today to provide local governments in those counties with up to one-point-five (m) million dollars in state funding.

Spokeswoman Jeanine L'Ecuyer (la-CURE') said Napolitano directly released 200-thousand dollars from the state's emergency fund for disasters while her emergency council released an additional one-point-three (m) million dollars.

The emergency declaration covers Cochise, Pima, Santa Cruz and Yuma counties.

The money is intended for use by counties and municipalities for a variety of purposes, including overtime pay for law enforcement officers, repairs of border fences, costs related to illegal immigrants' deaths.

Napolitano's action followed a similar declaration by New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson.

[Giantrobo]

Obviously the most illegals are coming from the south, bar none. I'll stand by my claim that both borders are an equal threat to national security. And in reality, the borders are rather meaningless since the terrorists we have to worry about are much more sophisticated than to sneak across the border to begin with.

Ok, so let's take the National Security line out of why we need to do something about the borders. The immediate threat in South Western States, and eventually other states from the people streaming in over the border comes in the form of overpopulation, emergency rooms shutting down due to overcrowding for NON-emergencies, the fact that employers have kept the pay really low for not only illegal workers, but a study posted months back showed how even Amercian Born latinos in similar low paying jobs have seen a reduction in pay. Why pay them good money when you can screw them over like the Illegal brethren? IT'S EXPLOITATION. .

Is that enough of a reason to do something about Illegal immigration? Keeping careful tabs on Immigration is done for a reason. When Illegals jump to the front of the line in mass numbers it defeats the purpose of keeping track.

[LASERMOVIES]

http://www.dfw.com/mld/startelegram/news/state/12388926.htm


Posted on Mon, Aug. 15, 2005



Mexican presidential spokesman says violence makes accord urgent

MORGAN LEE
Associated Press

MEXICO CITY - A surge in violence along the U.S. border makes the need for a migration accord with the United States more urgent, a spokesman for Mexican President Vicente Fox said Monday.

Violence has claimed many lives along the border this year, including 110 in Nuevo Laredo, a city of 350,000 people across the border from Laredo, Texas. Much of the violence stems from a war between two powerful drug cartels for control of smuggling routes, officials say.

"The situation of security should bring advances more quickly in a migration accord; an accord that allows an orderly flow, a flow with respect for human rights that assures the security of the United States as much as Mexico," presidential spokesman Ruben Aguilar told a news conference.

Fox continues to urge President Bush to follow through on promises to create a migration agreement that would allow more people to work legally north of the border. Instead, Bush recently approved new measures that make it harder for undocumented migrants to get a driver's license and clear the way for an extension of a security wall along the California-Mexico border.

Public safety issues near the border should put a possible migration accord "on the table again," Aguilar said.

Aguilar insisted that Mexican authorities are working on the federal, state and municipal level to eradicate organized crime linked to the increased violence.

Federal police and troops have been sent to several cities along the Mexican border and other areas besieged by violence linked to drug trafficking.

Mexico's national security is not at risk, Aguilar said Monday.

"The public security of some cities and some regions of the country are at stake, but national security is not at stake," Aguilar said.

[Gallant Pig]

Is that enough of a reason to do something about Illegal immigration?

Uh yeah? Sure? I'm pretty sure I clearly said that a couple pages back. :)

[LASERMOVIES]

www.alertnet.org (http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N16204618.htm)

Mexico's Fox tells U.S. to help out in drug war
17 Aug 2005 02:28:11 GMT

Source: Reuters

MEXICO CITY, Aug 16 (Reuters) - Mexican President Vicente Fox told the United States on Tuesday to stop complaining about his government's record in the drug war and instead work with him in fighting powerful cocaine cartels.

U.S. President George W. Bush's administration has become increasingly critical of Mexico's failure to stop a wave of drug violence along the U.S.-Mexico border and U.S. states along the frontier also have called for firmer action.

Fox told reporters in the northern city of Hermosillo that the United States has as many problems with drugs and organized crime as Mexico and that his government was doing its part.

"My call to the United States, whether it is a state government or the government of President Bush, is that, instead of pointing out problems, we make proposals and that we work together instead of each one working by himself," Fox said. "That's the only way we'll be able to win."

He also suggested U.S. police might not be doing enough to stop the flow of drugs.

"The question is, 'How do all the drugs that cross over there get to the consumer markets? What is being done on that side?'" Fox said.

Drug cartels move South American cocaine through Mexico by land, air and sea, often bribing police along the way. Mexico is also a major supplier of amphetamines and marijuana.

More than 600 people have been killed this year in a vicious turf battle between Mexico's cartels and the worst violence has been in rough cities along the border.

The U.S. government has repeatedly warned Americans not to travel to Nuevo Laredo, where more than 100 people have been slain since the start of the year.

Washington closed its consulate in Nuevo Laredo, which is across the Rio Grande from Laredo, Texas, for a week at the start of August. The move upset Mexico's government and further weakened a relationship that started out with great promise when Fox and Bush were newly elected but has been hurt by disputes over the Iraq war, U.S. immigration policy and the drug war.

Tony Garza, the U.S. ambassador to Mexico, has been at the center of the dispute. On Tuesday, he defended his decision to close the consulate in Nuevo Laredo but also suggested it was punishment for Mexico's inability to halt the bloodshed.

"Some have said that I ordered the shutdown to punish the Mexican government for it's failure to control violence in the region. And in a sense that's true," Garza said in the text of a speech he was scheduled to make in Denver.

[NORML54601]

Am I the only one who had no idea Bill Richardson is hispanic?

[Giantrobo]

Am I the only one who had no idea Bill Richardson is hispanic?

I believe he's Hispanic and White.

[Giantrobo]

Uh yeah? Sure? I'm pretty sure I clearly said that a couple pages back. :)

Did you? My Bad. All I saw were your posts wondering why we're so upset about the Southern Border....

[Gallant Pig]

Did you? My Bad. All I saw were your posts wondering why we're so upset about the Southern Border....

Uh, not really.

[Gallant Pig]

Anyone catch the recent Talk of the Nation? The entire episode headlined the border emergency case and featured Bill Richardson. Good stuff. Did a pretty fair job of showing the difficulties and complexities involved down there. The governor himself came off really well and made a great case overall. One thing that caught me off guard, one of the callers was from Indiana and one of those minutemen guys. The governor flat out said several times, he doesn't want the minutemen in New Mexico on the border. He doesn't want them down there. He thought they were well-intentioned folks, but they are not trained and basically a powerkeg waiting to happen.

The rest of the show focused more on the PEW study as mentioned in the other thread floating around on the front page.

If you have Windows MCE, you can get to it by going to the Online SHowcase button then NPR then Talk of the Nation. It's about 40 minutes long.

[Giantrobo]

... The governor flat out said several times, he doesn't want the minutemen in New Mexico on the border. He doesn't want them down there. He thought they were well-intentioned folks, but they are not trained and basically a powerkeg waiting to happen.




Well, he's still a Democrat and even though he's playin' tough with the border issue....

[General Zod]

Looks like California may be next :up:

Governor: California will consider state of emergency along border

SAN DIEGO – Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger said today he would consider joining his counterparts in Arizona and New Mexico in declaring a state of emergency to strengthen law enforcement along the border with Mexico.

"We're talking about that right now," Schwarzenegger told 760 KFMB's Rick Roberts during his morning radio talk show. "If we see a need for that, we will do definitely the same thing."

New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson issued an emergency declaration on Friday to free up $1.75 million in funding to fight crime and illegal immigration along that state's border with Mexico.

"Recent developments have convinced me this action is necessary – including violence directed at law enforcement, damage to property and livestock, increased evidence of drug smuggling and an increase in the number of undocumented immigrants," Richardson said.

Arizona Gov. Janet Napolitano issued a similar declaration on Monday. allowing $1.5 million to be earmarked to fight criminal activity and illegal immigration along the Arizona border.

"The federal government has failed to secure our border, and the health and safety of all Arizonans is threatened daily by violent gangs, coyotes and other dangerous criminals," Napolitano said.

"Anyone who lives at the border can attest to the fact that what they face is devastating," she added. "I intend to take every action feasible to stem the tide of criminal behavior on the Arizona side of the border."

Both Democratic governors joined Schwarzenegger, a Republican, at a recent conference on border issues in New Mexico, which included representatives from Mexican states.

"We all have talked about the importance of really securing the borders," Schwarzenegger told KFMB.

"It is not just the flow of illegal immigrants that are coming over here, but it is also the drug trafficking that is going on, the violence that is going on on the borders and the human trafficking," he said.

Schwarzenegger said he would only consider declaring a state of emergency along California's border with Mexico "if there's a need."

"Right now, we are having things somewhat under control, so there was no reason for it yet," he said. "If there is a reason for it, we definitely would do that."

Schwarzenegger was recently criticized by Latino groups for his praise of the so-called "minutemen" civilian patrols that monitored San Diego County's border with Mexico this summer.

[Gallant Pig]

Well, he's still a Democrat and even though he's playin' tough with the border issue....

True true.

[LASERMOVIES]

http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=8749

The Illegal Immigration Emergency: Would a Bill of Impeachment Wake-Up President Bush?

by Patrick J. Buchanan
Posted Aug 26, 2005

On Aug. 12, New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson declared a state of emergency "due to a chaotic situation involving illegal alien smuggling and illegal drug shipments" on his southern border. Three days later, Gov. Janet Napolitano followed suit in Arizona.

Reason: the crisis on the border. The ally-ally-in-free immigration policy of George Bush and Vicente Fox, beloved of corporate America, has created a hell on our southern border.

Those Southwestern states are being inundated by illegal aliens trashing ranches, killing cattle, committing crimes and eating up tax dollars. The traffic in narcotics and human beings from Mexico is a national scandal and a human rights disgrace.

What is true of New Mexico and Arizona is true of our nation, which is now home to an estimated 10 million to 15 million aliens who have broken our laws and broken into our country. It is a mark of the cowardice of our leaders that they are so terrified of being called "bigots" they tolerate this criminality. The moral rot of political correctness runs deep today in both national parties.

A president like Teddy Roosevelt would have led the Army to the border years ago. And if Fox did not cooperate, T.R. would have gone on to Mexico City. Nor would Ike, who deported all illegal aliens in 1953, have stood still for this being done to the country he had defended in war.

What are these Bush Republicans afraid of? Dirty looks from the help at the country club?

The question of whether America is going to remain one nation, or whether our Southwest will wind up as a giant Kosovo -- separated by language and loyalty from the rest of America -- is on the table.

Where is Bush? All wrapped up in the issue of whether women in Najaf will have the same rights in divorce and custody cases as women in Nebraska. His legislative agenda for the fall includes a blanket amnesty for illegals, so they can be exploited by businesses who want to hold wages down as they dump the social costs for their employees -- health care, schools, courts, cops, prisons -- onto taxpayers.

Not only have Richardson and Napolitano awakened -- they are on the front lines -- so, too, has Hillary Clinton, who has spoken out against illegal immigration with a forthrightness that makes Bush sound like a talking head for La Raza.

Why is a Republican Congress permitting this president to persist in the dereliction of his sworn duty?

George Bush is chief executive of the United States. It is his duty to enforce the laws. Can anyone fairly say he is enforcing the immigration laws? Those laws are clear. People who break in are to be sent back. Yet, more than 10 million have broken in with impunity. Another million attempt to break in every year. Half a million succeed. Border security is homeland security. How, then, can the Department of Homeland Security say America is secure?

Who can guarantee that, of the untold millions of illegals here, and the scores of thousands ordered deported for crimes who have disappeared into our midst, none is a terrorist waiting for orders to blow up a subway or mall and massacre American citizens?

Most of these illegals come to work to send money back to their families. They are not bad people. But because they are predominantly young and male, they commit a disproportionate share of violent crimes.

Why should U.S. citizens be assaulted, robbed, raped and murdered, and have their children molested, because their government will not enforce its own laws?

Is this not an indictment of democracy itself? What dictatorial regime would put up with this?

The Republican Party claims to be a conservative party. But what kind of conservative is it who, to cut a few costs or make a few bucks, will turn his family's home into a neighborhood flop house?

In a recent poll, 40 percent of Mexicans -- 40 million people -- said they would like to come to the United States, and 20 percent expressed a willingness to break in. Time to cut the babble about how NAFTA is going to solve the problem. This is a national emergency.

Twice, George Bush has taken an oath to "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States." Article IV, Section 4 of that Constitution reads, "The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against invasion."

Well, we are being invaded, and the president of the United States is not doing his duty to protect the states against that invasion. Some courageous Republican, to get the attention of this White House, should drop into the hopper a bill of impeachment, charging George W. Bush with a conscious refusal to uphold his oath and defend the states of the Union against "invasion."

It may be the only way left to get his attention, before the border vanishes and our beloved country dissolves into MexAmerica, what T.R. called a "polyglot boarding house for the world."