NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - The banking industry is opening its doors to a controversial new market: illegal immigrants.
Despite heated political debate in Washington over illegal immigration in the United States, an increasing number of banks are seeing an untapped resource for growing their own revenue stream and contend that providing undocumented residents with mortgages will help revitalize local communities.
It's a win-win situation, they say.
But skeptics worry about the message these home loans send to illegal immigrants: break our laws and we'll reward you with a home.
"It's institutionalizing illegality," said Marti Dinerstein, president of Immigration Matters, a New York-based think tank. "Now there's no distinction being made between the people that follow all the rules and those who break our laws by entering the country or overstaying their visas."
link to full CNN article (http://tinyurl.com/9er6q)
Otto
08-08-05, 05:42 PM
Your link is busted. And it was rather long and annoying. Here's a shorter one.
Fixed Linky (http://cnnmoney.printthis.clickability.com/pt/cpt?action=cpt&urlID=15080552&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmoney.cnn.com%2F2005%2F08%2F08%2Fnews%2Feconomy%2Fillegal_immigrants%2Findex.htm)
Edit: Argh, you fixed it before I posted! :(
TropicalRobot
08-08-05, 05:44 PM
Heh heh...sorry Otto. :)
DVD Polizei
08-08-05, 06:15 PM
Another point made in letting you know your American Citizenship, don't mean shit these days.
Red Dog
08-08-05, 06:16 PM
While I'm very anti-illegal immigration, this earns a :shrug: from me. They should be able to lend to whomever the fuck they want.
General Zod
08-08-05, 06:19 PM
While I'm very anti-illegal immigration, this earns a :shrug: from me. They should be able to lend to whomever the fuck they want.
I don't care either unless we, the citizens, wind up paying somehow. What happens if these people decide to ditch it all and run back to Mexico? Who pays on the loan that was defaulted.. the banks only? Or are they FDIC insured? Does the gov't help pay to bail them out? Do we, in turn, help fund the gov't and wind up paying for it all indirectly?
Ranger
08-08-05, 06:22 PM
While I'm very anti-illegal immigration, this earns a :shrug: from me. They should be able to lend to whomever the fuck they want.
I'd agree with this, especially for car insurance.
Red Dog
08-08-05, 06:38 PM
I'd agree with this, especially for car insurance.
Yep. If some illegal hits me, I certainly hope he has insurance.
I can guess who doesn't like this policy, besides those rabidly against illegal immigration. The loan sharks.
sracer
08-08-05, 06:53 PM
While I'm very anti-illegal immigration, this earns a :shrug: from me. They should be able to lend to whomever the fuck they want.
Will those banks eat the loss on defaulted mortgages? Or will they go to the government with their hand out looking to be reimbursed?
DVD Polizei
08-08-05, 06:56 PM
What about undocumented men who are from the Middle East.
And just how can you make a profit off of undocumented US residents? You can't. You simply have the US government bail you out.
General Zod
08-08-05, 06:56 PM
I'd agree with this, especially for car insurance.
I'm sure someone who snuck into the country illegally, is driving illegally because they can't get a license, is sure to get car insurance -rolleyes-. There's a very good reason uninsured motorist is a MUST in California.
sracer
08-08-05, 07:09 PM
I'm sure someone who snuck into the country illegally, is driving illegally because they can't get a license, is sure to get car insurance -rolleyes-. There's a very good reason uninsured motorist is a MUST in California.
Well, you're ignoring the fact that illegal immigrants are simply hardworking, highly ethical people... far more so than the thieving, lazy, overpaid, unionized legal citizens.
DVD Polizei
08-08-05, 07:09 PM
Why don't we give illegals free cars, homes, and jobs as a big THANK-YOU! for coming to the US. Would make things easier for them.
kvrdave
08-08-05, 07:17 PM
Give them the loans, then take the homes because they own them illegally, I say. :)
huzefa
08-08-05, 07:21 PM
Why don't we give illegals free cars, homes, and jobs as a big THANK-YOU! for coming to the US. Would make things easier for them.
I don't know what you're on, but it ain't exactly easy to get into the U.S. (legally). It's even LESS easy for people to get legal jobs, etc. It's important to show all the LEGAL immigrants that their hardwork and toil was not just BS. I wish we would put up a big freaking wall on the southern border; maybe that would help.
Myster X
08-08-05, 07:21 PM
This sounds like a trap to round up illegals.
loan specialist: Hi! How can I help you today?
illegal: I need a home loan.
illegal: I'm came to this country illegally.
loan specialist: no problem, just give a minute or two Ok. I'll be right back.
Goes in the back room and speed dial BCIS.
Ranger
08-08-05, 07:24 PM
What about undocumented men who are from the Middle East.
The average Arab-American has an income higher than that of the national average.
What does that tell you? It tells me, that if there's going to be Arab terrorists coming here, it's most likely that they'll be well-educated and capable of acquiring legal visas and passports. Basically, not many of them are going to put up with dirty bums and walking across the desert.
I'm sure someone who snuck into the country illegally, is driving illegally because they can't get a license, is sure to get car insurance -rolleyes-. There's a very good reason uninsured motorist is a MUST in California.
But it looks like CA's moving to issue driver licenses to illegals, so surely they'll be needing car insurance. What, the state's going to give them licenses but not allow them to have car insurance, remind me not to drive in CA then.
DVD Polizei
08-08-05, 07:31 PM
I don't know what you're on, but it ain't exactly easy to get into the U.S. (legally). It's even LESS easy for people to get legal jobs, etc. It's important to show all the LEGAL immigrants that their hardwork and toil was not just BS. I wish we would put up a big freaking wall on the southern border; maybe that would help.
I'm not sure what you're on, because I was referring to ILLEGALS, not legals.
And I don't know where you live, but where I live, we have illegals being hired for landscaping and construction jobs which are squeezing out legitimate businesses because they can't compete with the prices these illegal employers are offering the neighborhoods.
General Zod
08-08-05, 07:33 PM
But it looks like CA's moving to issue driver licenses to illegals, so surely they'll be needing car insurance. What, the state's going to give them licenses but not allow them to have car insurance, remind me not to drive in CA then.
Not while Arnold's in town :) Don't believe what you hear out of Gil Cedillo. Polls routinely show that 70% of Californians don't want illegals having driver's licenses. It will never pass until we get another governor in like Gray Davis that would sell his soul for votes, and bypass the voting process.
DVD Polizei
08-08-05, 07:41 PM
The average Arab-American has an income higher than that of the national average.
What does that tell you? It tells me, that if there's going to be Arab terrorists coming here, it's most likely that they'll be well-educated and capable of acquiring legal visas and passports. Basically, not many of them are going to put up with dirty bums and walking across the desert.
But it looks like CA's moving to issue driver licenses to illegals, so surely they'll be needing car insurance. What, the state's going to give them licenses but not allow them to have car insurance, remind me not to drive in CA then.
Putting up with dirty bums and walking across the desert is exactly what a seasoned Jihadist will do in order to move his soldiers into play. Besides, given the terrain in his own country, this will be a cake walk.
We already have stories of the educated sending dozens of illegal Middle Easterners via Mexico. There was the Iranian case a little while ago, where over 60 Iranians were smuggled into the US via Mexico:
This case was merely for "financial gain", but word is getting around if you want to send dozens of your soldiers into the US to avoid documentation and flagging, just go via Mexico. This really isn't "breaking news" per se, as it's been in the media spotlight for a year anyway.
fujishig
08-08-05, 07:42 PM
Not while Arnold's in town :) Don't believe what you hear out of Gil Cedillo. Polls routinely show that 70% of Californians don't want illegals having driver's licenses. It will never pass until we get another governor in like Gray Davis that would sell his soul for votes, and bypass the voting process.
I never understood this... if 70% don't want this to happen, why would someone pass it if he's selling his soul for votes? Don't you want the majority on your side? Or are they going to allow illegal aliens to vote now, too?
Why would they want to own a house, though? It's not like they pay taxes that they can get a break on, right? How would they even afford a house in California?
DVD Polizei
08-08-05, 07:54 PM
I never understood this... if 70% don't want this to happen, why would someone pass it if he's selling his soul for votes? Don't you want the majority on your side? Or are they going to allow illegal aliens to vote now, too?
Why would they want to own a house, though? It's not like they pay taxes that they can get a break on, right? How would they even afford a house in California?
Illegals aren't concerned about tax breaks if they buy a house. The money they make under the table far exceeds any tax break you or I will see in our lifetime. :)
Most of it has to do with having a place where you can have other illegals live without being under surveillance if you were in an apartment complex. With a house, you're under much less scrutiny, and you have much more space to live.
In addition, we have Mexican Meth producers who need places to set up shop without the added scrutiny of an apartment manager as well.
Red Dog
08-08-05, 10:41 PM
I'm not sure what you're on, because I was referring to ILLEGALS, not legals.
And I don't know where you live, but where I live, we have illegals being hired for landscaping and construction jobs which are squeezing out legitimate businesses because they can't compete with the prices these illegal employers are offering the neighborhoods.
Blame that on the minimum wage.
As for other comments, I love this concern for bailouts for illegals defaulting on loans. Where is the same concern for J6P defaulting on his loan and fucking it up for the rest of us? Debt and bankruptcy are the American way.
Red Dog
08-08-05, 10:47 PM
I'm sure someone who snuck into the country illegally, is driving illegally because they can't get a license, is sure to get car insurance -rolleyes-. There's a very good reason uninsured motorist is a MUST in California.
Before you roll your eyes, you might want to check and find out whether every illegal immigrant does indeed not have car insurance. Note that illegal immigrant includes those who has been 'found out' by the gov't and whose legal status has yet to be resolved.
DVD Polizei
08-08-05, 11:09 PM
Blame that on the minimum wage.
As for other comments, I love this concern for bailouts for illegals defaulting on loans. Where is the same concern for J6P defaulting on his loan and fucking it up for the rest of us? Debt and bankruptcy are the American way.
At least J6P has a social security number, and his previous credit will follow him.
Just how do you propose an UNDOCUMENTED US CITIZEN to have credit follow them? Oh wait. We have can have them voluntarily say on their next loan application, "Yeah, I applied before, defaulted on the money you gave me, and since you have no way to track me down, I'm voluntarily saying this so you can reject me this time."
And how do you blame illegals working for particular businesses which compete with other businesses, on the minimum wage? It has nothing to do with minimum wage. Unless you support having no minimum wage, and the "market will adjust itself" theory?
ChiTownAbs, Inc
08-08-05, 11:38 PM
There was a much bigger story in BusinessWeek a few weeks ago.
naughty jonny
08-09-05, 02:31 AM
If a government allows foreign nationals to purchase real estate, then the ability to get a loan should (and does) have nothing to do with whether you are legal to work there.
If the government allows foreign nationals to buy a house, then the banks have every right to loan money to them. I personally know of one American who owns a house here in Australia (actually, I believe he owns two) and while he's not allowed to live here, treats it purely as an investment vehicle.
His argument is that Australia is a nice place to live, and one day he might consider retiring here. If he does, he has a house; if not, then he has an investment making him money. They're apparently not great houses, but he got them for around $70K (each) US when the market was cheap. Now, they'd probably be worth twice that.
For him, it's a win-win situation.
Similarly, there are HUGE numbers of Australians who have bought investment properties in New Zealand because of the value they represented. They can't work there or live there, but they're still legally able to buy property there (and they get loans from New Zealand banks to do so).
Now, while you average Mexican might use this as a backdoor to validity, there is no real reason for the banks to not loan them money.
That being said, I do think that while there is no reason that these loans shouldn't be approved, there is probably a good argument that they get reported to the immigration department as a matter of course.
OldDude
08-09-05, 07:37 AM
At least here, you generally have to demonstrate your sources of income, pay stubs, W2s, etc. In the case of American buying place in Australia, I'm assuming he demonstrated he has a job in US with income sufficient to pay the mortgage.
When the Mexican shows his paystub from an illegal job in the US ( :lol: it's all "under the table) a huge TILT sign should go off in the mind of the banker.
You offer an interesting example as I think Americans need to go through some "permissions" to buy property in Canada, but I don't know any details.
Red Dog
08-09-05, 09:55 AM
At least J6P has a social security number, and his previous credit will follow him.
Just how do you propose an UNDOCUMENTED US CITIZEN to have credit follow them? Oh wait. We have can have them voluntarily say on their next loan application, "Yeah, I applied before, defaulted on the money you gave me, and since you have no way to track me down, I'm voluntarily saying this so you can reject me this time."
And how do you blame illegals working for particular businesses which compete with other businesses, on the minimum wage? It has nothing to do with minimum wage. Unless you support having no minimum wage, and the "market will adjust itself" theory?
I wouldn't lend money to such a person, but that shouldn't prevent someone else from doing so. You do realize where a person seeking a loan will go if he can't get one from bank, correct? I can assure you that it isn't the Boy Scouts. :lol:
As for the minimum wage, ding ding ding, we have a winner.
VinVega
08-09-05, 10:04 AM
I wouldn't lend money to such a person, but that shouldn't prevent someone else from doing so. You do realize where a person seeking a loan will go if he can't get one from bank, correct? I can assure you that it isn't the Boy Scouts. :lol:
Rodney Dangerfield, back from the grave? :hscratch:
Still, if they go to loan sharks, why should I care?
At least here, you generally have to demonstrate your sources of income, pay stubs, W2s, etc. In the case of American buying place in Australia, I'm assuming he demonstrated he has a job in US with income sufficient to pay the mortgage.
Actually, I believe he came along with about a 50% deposit for the first one. Given the bank would have taken their 50% first if he needed to sell, it was less of a problem for them to have him have a high income. Didn't exactly quiz him about how he'd stuctured it, so I could be wrong.
When the Mexican shows his paystub from an illegal job in the US ( :lol: it's all "under the table) a huge TILT sign should go off in the mind of the banker..
True, but at the same time, it's not the banker's job to vet applicants for whether they are legal to work. If they have the required documentation (such as a couple of valid pay slips and a valid social security number), then bankers shouldn't really try and "catch" them out as being illegals. To do so would be to disadvantage the bank they're working for.
If the government was serious about illegals having jobs and buying homes, then it's easy enough to require banks to forward a list of names of everyone without a SSN who has been approved for a loan greater than $XXX.
You offer an interesting example as I think Americans need to go through some "permissions" to buy property in Canada, but I don't know any details.
In Australia and New Zealand, it really depends on the cost of the property. You can't, for example, buy millions of dollars of real estate without seeking government approval. But, you can buy a regular house without too much trouble.
Buy: