I see that the cost of plasma TVs is coming down. I am pretty confused as to what is the best HDTVs because the technology is moving so fast. Does anyone have any suggestions? Are there any sites that can sort some of this out?
renaldow
08-03-05, 12:07 AM
The best? Um, what's your price range? That makes all the difference.
Spiky
08-03-05, 12:32 PM
Fujitsu is the best. Pretty much all other plasmas have a little or a lot of Fujitsu tech in them. Are you sure you can handle such a small picture for the price?
BigBill
08-03-05, 11:32 PM
I paid 6K or 7K when I paid for my last TV. I don't have a problem with spending more if I get what I want. I don't want to go over 10K.
renaldow
08-04-05, 12:37 AM
I paid 6K or 7K when I paid for my last TV. I don't have a problem with spending more if I get what I want. I don't want to go over 10K.
That greatly reduces what "best" is then.
BigBill
08-04-05, 12:15 PM
Ok, If I want to spend more than 10K, then what?
Spiky
08-04-05, 12:46 PM
Is 50" big enough? Can you control light in your room? If you are willing to put in the effort, front projection is the way to go. Esp 3 chip, which might be in that price range. http://www.runco.com/ is another at the top of every category.
Nice plasma (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-eLKXN0f0Jz5/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=146350&I=13350PX500). Or this, but DVI (http://www.visualapex.com/plasma/Plasma_details.asp?chPartNumber=TH-50PHD7UY&MFR=Panasonic). Bigger can be better (http://www.plasmatvbuyingguide.com/plasmatvprices/prices.php?size=60).
Slayer2005
08-11-05, 07:37 PM
I see that the cost of plasma TVs is coming down. I am pretty confused as to what is the best HDTVs because the technology is moving so fast. Does anyone have any suggestions? Are there any sites that can sort some of this out?
The best technolgy as far as picture quality is CRT. If you're wanting to spend near $10,000 why not just get a 720p DLP front projector and a 100-120" Mirage Black front projection screen (they'll be available this year)?
I know most of you have never heard of the Mirage/Supernova screen, but it is a new front projection technology using a black screen instead of white. It rejects ambient light and reflects UHP projected light and allows you to use DLP/LCD projectors during the day with the lights on.
It's taking front projection out of the dark. I believe a 100" screen will cost about $3,500 and a 120" will be about $4,169. A great DLP projector can be had for as low as $1,700 (starting at XGA 1024x768 resolution. The HT1100 is great an came down to $1,995 MRSP from nearly $4,500). Front projection makes big tvs look like the waste of money that they are, especially when they are brought out of the dark with a screen like the mirage.
My CRT projector cost me only $700 and it will spank pretty much any TV you seen in stores, regardless of price. My screen is about 11.5ft diagonal in 4:3 and a little less in 16:9. It gives me the best picture I've ever seen from any display and that includes the cinema.
Here's a link to the Mirage:
http://www.screeninnovations.com/
Your perfect combo in your price range would be a 100 or 120" Mirage screen and an Optoma H79 DLP (of course you can save money by getting a great, but a bit lesser of machine that would still deliver an incredible picture.). Perfect combo. It will knock your socks off. Less than $10,000.
Infact, you don't really need a pj as expensive as the H79. You can get something like the H77 or another great DLP unit and you might be able to get a great DLP/100" Mirage combo for under $6,000.
BigBill
08-12-05, 10:32 AM
Thanks 2005Slayer. Are these black screens wall hung and are they retractable? I like the idea but probably don't need a screen that big unless it is retractable as I my room configuration is odd. I will check the link you gave me also.
Spiky
08-12-05, 11:30 AM
Should be. Most screens are available as any sort of screen. Powered, permwall, hand-retractable, etc. These aren't actually out yet, but it's a safe bet.
Slayer2005
08-12-05, 02:33 PM
Thanks 2005Slayer. Are these black screens wall hung and are they retractable? I like the idea but probably don't need a screen that big unless it is retractable as I my room configuration is odd. I will check the link you gave me also.
It's a fixed frame screen that is wall hung and they also have different sizes available that are cheaper. It goes from 45" up to 120". An 84" diagonal version is around $1,995. I hear they have plans of releasing a retractable version in the future.
There's really no comparison to TVs though. No big TV out there regardless of price can give you anything remotely close to the same experience that front projection can provide. Front projection recreates the cinema feel. A big TV is just a poor simulation after you've seen front projection.
SINGLE104
08-14-05, 11:47 PM
Ok, If I want to spend more than 10K, then what?
If your willing to pay 10k or more, for an HDTV, then you might as well invest in a front projection screen, seems like you can afford it. Personally, I would wait until more HD channels become available, since the HD programming is so minimal, unless your primary viewing is going to be DVDs. But for me, it wouldn't be worth to spend that kind of money for a HDTV, even if I can afford it. But if you must have the latest, and the greatest of A/V technology, then pursue it.
Due to my busy work schedule, and other activities, the only time that I am able to enjoy my home theater is on the weekend, and rarely I ever watch network TV, or even HD. I will not get my moneys worth if I did purchase a 10k or more for a HDTV, So my 50" (which I currenty have) is more then sufficient enough for me.
Spiky
08-14-05, 11:57 PM
I don't think we mentioned it, but if 10K is not the limit, the Qualia comes into view. They are supposed to be awesome. Haven't seen one myself. The 006 70" RPTV is around $12K, I believe. 1080p, 3 chip SXRD. This may be The Best in non-front-projection as of today, competing with 60" or bigger plasmas from Runco and Fujitsu.
(but I still like front PJ better)
BigBill
08-15-05, 11:00 AM
Does it make a difference that I probably watch more movies and sports? I am not much into network stuff. I have about 2K DVD collection which I enjoy more.
Spiky
08-15-05, 01:18 PM
I have finally seen football in HD at 90". I will never watch anything else again!!
(ok, that's hyperbole)
SINGLE104
08-15-05, 02:39 PM
Does it make a difference that I probably watch more movies and sports? I am not much into network stuff. I have about 2K DVD collection which I enjoy more.
The quanity of your DVD collection is not an issue, when your in the market to purchase new equipment. You'll have to go out shop around in person at you local home theater retailers that specializes only in high end, and state of the art A/V hardware (Excluding Best Buy, and Circuit City), and their salesman will be able to show a demostration for you of any product of your interest.
After viewing different sets, with your own eyes, you will be able to determine, and make a final decision of your choice on which to purchase. And for the record, you may want to bring a couple of DVDs with various of OAR (original aspect ratios.) to view, and hopefully the floor models that are on display have been professionally calibrated by their company technicans.
juicerocket
08-15-05, 03:10 PM
Remember that watching tv/movies on a projector isn't quite the "turn it on and it's ready" deal. It may take a few minutes for the projector to warm, etc. Also remember that you'll need a light-controlled room for projector use.
CPA-ESQ.
08-15-05, 05:09 PM
I have both a DLP HP front projector on a 110" viewsonic screen and a 65" RP HDTV.
The picture that the projector gives off is like night and day compared to my RP tv. However, I only use the projector if I am going to watch a long show like Deadwood on HBO, Football, or Movies.
One problem is that it takes a minute or 2 to power it up.
The room is Dark (which is great for movies etc) but it dosen't work out if you want to eat some dinner in front of the TV. But that is a small price to pay for one of the best pictures out there.
I would look around Circut C, and Wost Buy, Sears etc.. However please remember that these stores will not have projectors, and the sales people could be less than knowlageable. Walk around take a look, then go search the internet for discussions on what you saw.
To be honest with you... these stores do not cater to those with $10K to spend. (Try doing an internet search in the yellow pages for "Home Theater" ) You may find someone in your area who sells higher end projectors, screnes, etc... than what you would find at a chain store.
Good Luck!
Slayer2005
08-15-05, 06:47 PM
Does it make a difference that I probably watch more movies and sports? I am not much into network stuff. I have about 2K DVD collection which I enjoy more.
You're only making a better case for front projection. :) Front projection and DVDs/HD/Sports/Video Games go together like peanut butter and jelly. It'll make you never want to see a rear projection TV again, especially if a good DLP projector is combined with a Mirage screen (which are available in multiple sizes, but obviously if I had the money I'd go for the 120" screen if I could). There are many great DLPs out there that are priced very nicely too. If it coems down to purchasing and you want recommendations let me know.
The size of front projection alone makes RPTVs seem almost worthless in comparison. Why pay so much for a RPTV when you can have upto and past 4 times the screen surface? Bigger IS better. Front projection is the only way you can get a cinema like experience at home. Big screen TVs are just poor imitations in comparsion.
I hear they're also working on a black screen that changes into art when it's not being used. Could be cool, but could be a long way off too.
Nothing else and I mean NOTHING in your price range will be even close to being as cool as a Mirage/DLP front projector combination. It'll be like having a really large plasma TV. They have several sizes available if you think 120" or 100" is too big. Actually seeing one would probably change your mind though, because bigger is better (sometimes you have to see it to believe it).
I believe they have the following 16:9 screens available: 45", 65", 72", 84", 92", 100", 120". They also have 4:3 screens too for 4:3 projectors. Prices start at about $879 and go up to about $4,179. Personally, with front projection I wouldn't want to go any lower than 90" diagonal (but you can easily and it'll still be great). As long as you don't see it at a larger size you should be ok with it though, but to me the point of front projection is to destroy the size limitation of RPTVs by a lot, not just a little.
BigBill
08-16-05, 01:18 AM
I would love the larger screen. Aren't there parameters when concerning viewing distance and screen size? My present big screen is about 60". My seating area is about 14-15feet away from it. If I get a flatter screen I could up that to about 16-17 feet. My set sits diagonally because of the odd shape of the room.
"With wide-screen sets showing DVD or HDTV, you can sit as close as 1.5 times the screen's diagonal measurement and still not notice much of a loss in quality, while sitting farther away than three times the screen size means you're likely to miss out on the immersive feel."
Sdallnct
08-16-05, 11:16 AM
Here's a link to the Mirage:
http://www.screeninnovations.com/
OK that is really cool. Very interesting. Would love to see one! Big $$ but when you compare to the cost of a top flight 50" plasma, really not that bad.
Spiky
08-16-05, 01:53 PM
I would love the larger screen. Aren't there parameters when concerning viewing distance and screen size? My present big screen is about 60". My seating area is about 14-15feet away from it. If I get a flatter screen I could up that to about 16-17 feet. My set sits diagonally because of the odd shape of the room.
God, I'm drooling! You are definitely a perfect candidate for front PJ. If you can straighten your room out and cope with lighting issues. But RPTV isn't too far off from good FPTV for lighting, so maybe you're halfway there. They've made many brighter units recently as digital technologies became cheaper and more people have become interested.
HD res PJs usually allow for sitting 1.5x screen width. I sit 11-12' from a 78" wide screen (90" diag), which could be a bit larger and still be fine. I may up it to as much as 87-88" someday (100" diag). With your distance you could easily go to a 130" diag screen and be just fine with a capable PJ/screen combination. You'd no doubt love it. I'd probably go for 120" to have a closer row of seats or at least space on the floor. Another issue is the throw distance, which is PJ distance to screen. But that can be solved easily, too. Just need to plan it out.
Front is more work to set up and plan, which is why people usually have it done for them. But there is a huge group of people at AVS that have done it themselves, like me. And we have discussed many different options and methods. The effort is worth it. So is the expense.
RockStrongo
08-16-05, 04:11 PM
God, I'm drooling! You are definitely a perfect candidate for front PJ.
Interesting read. BTW - Spiky, from this study it looks like Pioneer didnt find any burn-in with LCD, but they did with Plasma.
Slayer2005
08-16-05, 04:11 PM
I would love the larger screen. Aren't there parameters when concerning viewing distance and screen size? My present big screen is about 60". My seating area is about 14-15feet away from it. If I get a flatter screen I could up that to about 16-17 feet. My set sits diagonally because of the odd shape of the room.
The general rule as others have mentioned (of course rules like these can easily be broken) is 1.5-2.0x the width of the screen (usually depending on the projector's native resolution and a person's preference). Of course with a high rez DLP (XGA and higher) it's very possible to sit closer. So at your distance you could probably have as large of a screen as the distance will allow the projector to throw. The size depending on the projector's throw distance/screen size ratio and zoom settings.
Since you have the money and if you want to be able to watch in ambient lighting you can't go wrong with the mirage. Everyone who has seen it in person has been raving about it. I only wish I could buy one.
The thought of owning one makes me drool, because any direct light whatsoever that hits a regular white screen can take away a lot of its image quality, especially in less bright scenes. It's a contrast destroyer, especially in those lower contrast scenes. Finding Nemo and stuff like that can survive more ambient light than something like Blade.
I'm actually using a dark silver/gray fabric as my screen with my X1 right now just so I can watch with one shaded light in the room. All direct light is kept off the screen, but the room is still bright enough to read/write and carry on conversation with guests. Now I have a ton of extra contrast for my current ambient light situation. It makes my X1's poor black levels much much better too. Brightness is decreased a bit, but the contrast and black level improvement is worth it. I can now watch some dark films with my one shaded light on. It's no Mirage, but it'll have to do until the day I can get a Mirage. :)
Spiky
08-16-05, 05:30 PM
A few comments on the last few posts:
1) I have a napkin, it's ok. :)
2) Nice that ISF (that study wasn't actually from Pioneer, did they fund it maybe?) is attempting to educate people. I hope they can get this stuff out. VERY interesting stuff about the number of mfgring plants being made for LCD vs plasma.
3) I have a 720p DLP. While much better than a 480p display for being close, I wouldn't want to be closer than 1.0-1.2x distance for viewing. First, it's too big anyway, you have to keep turning your head. But second, the pic really starts to degrade. Somewhere just about 1.0x the SDE becomes a truly obvious grid, before that it just doesn't look quite as good. At my 1.8x distance it is awesome.
4) Slayer, maybe we should both go in on a black screen. It can be at my house for the first 2 years, yours for the next 2. What do you think? ;) (I'll send you one of my napkins, too)
Buy: