Obi-Wan and Episode 4 question
06-07-05, 07:26 AM
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Obi-Wan and Episode 4 question
In A New Hope Obi-Wan and Vader are fighting on the death star. What still puzzles me is why Obi-Wan decides to let Vader for lack of better words kill him. I could never figure that one out. Is it to give time for Luke, Leigh, Han and the others to escape or is it something else. What was Lucas's reason for this. Was there a reason?
06-07-05, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by themovieguru
In A New Hope Obi-Wan and Vader are fighting on the death star. What still puzzles me is why Obi-Wan decides to let Vader for lack of better words kill him. I could never figure that one out. Is it to give time for Luke, Leigh, Han and the others to escape or is it something else. What was Lucas's reason for this. Was there a reason?
Obi-Wan = Old, no longer very effective as a Jedi.
Obi-Wan Dead, a constant presence in Lukes Life, able to train Luke as a Jedi at all times, share his teachings and be his constant guide.
He said it would make him more powerful then he could imagine, and it did, it allowed him to become immortal. The only bad part is the lack of privacy when Luke has to take a dump.
06-07-05, 08:59 AM
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I’m sure if Obi Wan wanted to he could have used the force to fight better (much like Yoda did, he was old and walking to a stick but could use the force to duel if he needed to). However, he had not desire to win. Cause even if he destroyed Vader him and Luke would not have been powerful enough to destroy the Emperor (who would probably use Mara Jade or someone else as his apprentice). So Obi Wan figured Luke could have a much bigger influence through Vader (since he’s Vader’s son) and become more powerful guiding Luke.
So to sum up: He could have destroyed Vader but it likely would not have been good for the long term. This is why he let himself die.
So to sum up: He could have destroyed Vader but it likely would not have been good for the long term. This is why he let himself die.
06-07-05, 09:48 AM
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The answer is pretty basic. Obi-Wan becomes more of a help to the cause as a jedi ghost. As a ghost he can always be by Luke's side, for example in the fighter when Luke is attacking the death star.
06-07-05, 03:34 PM
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Both as a distraction and there really wasn't anything that he couldn't teach luke in either spirit form or not. So take one for the team.
06-07-05, 10:10 PM
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He learned how to become one with the force - so by dying, he could be with Luke EVERYWHERE, at ALL TIMES, and help him train to be a Jedi.
06-07-05, 10:43 PM
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From the Annotated Screenplays.
Originally Posted by George Lucas
:
"As I was writing the third draft of Star Wars, I realized that after they escape from the Death Star, there isn't anything for Ben to do, and I struggled with finding things for him to do and I finally gave up. I figured I would write that part later on. When I came to the next draft, it became obvious that he was just standing around and that was not good, especially for a character of his importance. So it was really in the last draft, the one I wrote before I shot the movie, that I finally came to the decision that I had to do what I had to do. In a way, I knew I would have to do it from the beginning, but I went back and forth about it. The difficult part of that decision was that I'd already hired Alec Guinness, and I had to tell him that his character was going to die halfway through the script. He didn't like it very much; he was upset about it until I convinced him that it was best for the movie, nothing personal. I knew that I would have to bring him back somehow if I made the other movies, and at the time of Star Wars I didn't know how I was going to accomplish that. At that point I had to make Star Wars work, and killing Ben was a logical decision."
"As I was writing the third draft of Star Wars, I realized that after they escape from the Death Star, there isn't anything for Ben to do, and I struggled with finding things for him to do and I finally gave up. I figured I would write that part later on. When I came to the next draft, it became obvious that he was just standing around and that was not good, especially for a character of his importance. So it was really in the last draft, the one I wrote before I shot the movie, that I finally came to the decision that I had to do what I had to do. In a way, I knew I would have to do it from the beginning, but I went back and forth about it. The difficult part of that decision was that I'd already hired Alec Guinness, and I had to tell him that his character was going to die halfway through the script. He didn't like it very much; he was upset about it until I convinced him that it was best for the movie, nothing personal. I knew that I would have to bring him back somehow if I made the other movies, and at the time of Star Wars I didn't know how I was going to accomplish that. At that point I had to make Star Wars work, and killing Ben was a logical decision."
06-08-05, 12:27 AM
#10
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Plus seeing Vader kill Ben only gives Luke more reason to want to become a badass Jedi. Obi-Wan knew exactly what he was doing, which is why once he knows Luke is watching, he smirks and becomes one with the Force.
06-08-05, 07:58 PM
#11
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Alec Guinness Blasts Jedi 'Mumbo Jumbo'
posted: 07:54 am ET
08 September 1999
Sir Alec Guinness hated Star Wars so much he talked George Lucas into killing the Obi-Wan Kenobi character, he revealed in a recent interview.
Guinness, one of the grand figures of British film with more than 60 cinematic appearances to his credit, told the new chatter magazine Talk that he convinced series creator Lucas that Kenobi would be a more effective mystical mentor if he appeared to Luke as a ghost. Lucas liked the idea, rewriting the first film to include the Jedi Knight's death in combat with former protégé Darth Vader.
However, Guinness said he had less purely artistic goals at heart.
"What I didn't tell him was that I just couldn't go on speaking those bloody awful, banal lines. I'd had enough of the mumbo jumbo," he told Talk interviewer Fintan O'Toole.
As a result, Kenobi's role was dramatically pared down in 'The Empire Strikes Back' and 'The Return of the Jedi', fortuitously minimizing Guinness' involvement with the blockbuster series.
The actor was likewise dubious about the films' fans, whose devotion he found "obsessive" at times. He said he is personally "mystified" by the Star Wars phenomenon.
Guinness' dissatisfaction with being the embodiment of Jedi virtues is reminiscent of sentiments expressed more recently by Ewan McGregor, who played the role of Kenobi as a younger man in 'The Phantom Menace'.
In an April interview with the BBC, McGregor called the process of making the Star Wars film "the epitome of tedium" and "a frowning exercise," but balanced his apparent boredom by noting that "there's nothing cooler than being a Jedi knight."
Despite early rumors to the contrary, McGregor is confirmed as being involved in the next two Star Wars films, and Lucas has said he will play a much larger part in the next installment, due to hit theaters in 2001.
posted: 07:54 am ET
08 September 1999
Sir Alec Guinness hated Star Wars so much he talked George Lucas into killing the Obi-Wan Kenobi character, he revealed in a recent interview.
Guinness, one of the grand figures of British film with more than 60 cinematic appearances to his credit, told the new chatter magazine Talk that he convinced series creator Lucas that Kenobi would be a more effective mystical mentor if he appeared to Luke as a ghost. Lucas liked the idea, rewriting the first film to include the Jedi Knight's death in combat with former protégé Darth Vader.
However, Guinness said he had less purely artistic goals at heart.
"What I didn't tell him was that I just couldn't go on speaking those bloody awful, banal lines. I'd had enough of the mumbo jumbo," he told Talk interviewer Fintan O'Toole.
As a result, Kenobi's role was dramatically pared down in 'The Empire Strikes Back' and 'The Return of the Jedi', fortuitously minimizing Guinness' involvement with the blockbuster series.
The actor was likewise dubious about the films' fans, whose devotion he found "obsessive" at times. He said he is personally "mystified" by the Star Wars phenomenon.
Guinness' dissatisfaction with being the embodiment of Jedi virtues is reminiscent of sentiments expressed more recently by Ewan McGregor, who played the role of Kenobi as a younger man in 'The Phantom Menace'.
In an April interview with the BBC, McGregor called the process of making the Star Wars film "the epitome of tedium" and "a frowning exercise," but balanced his apparent boredom by noting that "there's nothing cooler than being a Jedi knight."
Despite early rumors to the contrary, McGregor is confirmed as being involved in the next two Star Wars films, and Lucas has said he will play a much larger part in the next installment, due to hit theaters in 2001.
06-08-05, 08:11 PM
#12
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Wait a minute. Who's telling the truth? Was it Alec's idea or George's? 
06-08-05, 08:30 PM
#13
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Originally Posted by RocShemp
Wait a minute. Who's telling the truth? Was it Alec's idea or George's?
I'd guess that it is also probable that Alec's hatred of insane fans, and how he felt Star Wars overshadowed all of his great roles, could have made him state the above qoutes out of spite for the character and the series.
Then again, as I have said before, the flanneled one always made a lot up as he went along.
06-09-05, 12:39 AM
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Didn't Qui Gon Jin martyr himself similarly? Perhaps Obi Wan did it in the hope of inspiring Luke as Qui Gon's death inspired Obi Wan.
But you also must consider that Obi Wan already knew the spirit technique by that time, which is why he told Vader he'd only become stronger if struck down. Obi Wan was old and unable to make the the journies that Luke faced, but in spirit form he could go anywhere.
But you also must consider that Obi Wan already knew the spirit technique by that time, which is why he told Vader he'd only become stronger if struck down. Obi Wan was old and unable to make the the journies that Luke faced, but in spirit form he could go anywhere.
06-09-05, 02:29 AM
#15
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Qui Gon took a lightsaber to the gut... hardly similar. Although I guess Obi-Wan knew the effects of seeing your mentor slain right before your helpless eyes.
06-09-05, 02:46 AM
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Originally Posted by silentbob007
Vader might also have not let the MF go with the homing beacon on it if he knew Obi-Wan was alive and onboard.
He wouldn't have let the mother-fu....ooooooh, Millenium Falcon!!!
