ViewAskewbian

After viewing Revenge of the Sith I came home and watched the original trilogy and something is still not very clear.

1) In RotS Vader believes the twins to have died with Padme
2) In A New Hope he senses the force in the fighter pilot he is chasing (Luke)
3) In Empire Strikes Back the opening crawl tells us the Vader is looking for Skywalker
4) Also in Empire Vader says that Hoth is where the rebel base is and "Skywalker" is with them" thus knowing that somebody out there shares his last name AND has strong force power
5) In the DVD of Empire, Sidious tells Vader that Luke is the offspring of Anikan Skywalker
6) In the famed climactic moment Vader tells Luke he is his father

* * *

So, did Vader know that Luke was his son before Empire?
Was he unsure at this point, questioning why somebody with his last name would have strong force power and when Sidious tells him it all clicks?
Or, as many have wondered, did he just "find out" between A New Hope and Empire?

Thoughts?

mikehunt

probably between ANH and ESB
I'm sure imperial spies were able to learn the name of planet of origin of the destroyer of the death star and passed the info on to vader
wouldn't take much to figure out luke was his son after hearing something like
"yeah, it was this guy named luke skywalker, he grew up on tatooine with his aunt and uncle, beru and owen lars"

RoboDad

It has always been my belief that he found out sometime between ANH and ESB. Remember, several years have passed between the two films, so he had plenty of time to investigate the young pilot, and confirm his identity. The fact that the Emperor "tells" Vader about Luke doesn't mean Vader didn't already know.

Jackskeleton

Btween ANH and ESB. simple as that. Once he finds out the name of the pilot who destroys the death star, he hides it from Palp and tries to find skywalker himself so he can feel the presence of his son to convert him and the both could rule the galaxy as father and son... Since that whore of a wife of his didn't want to rule the galaxy with him.

jeffkjoe

Keep in mind two things:

1) EMPIRE takes place 4 years after A NEW HOPE. Plenty of time to get that info.

2) By the time EMPIRE rolls around, VADER has already had one confrontation with Luke in the Alan Dean Foster book SPLINTER OF THE MIND'S EYE. So, I guess Anakin, I mean Vader, learns Luke's ID then.

ViewAskewbian

I'm more apt to believe, though, that he had his thought that Luke may be is son and survived but wasn't 100% certain. This would explain why he was so desperate to find "him" in Empire and the other rebels were toss aways, really. Then when Sidious tells him what he has learned it ices it in his mind. Palpy speaks true to him, of course, even if Vader is taken a back by it at first ("How is this possible?" - as his wife died). When Palps tells him to seek his feelings it all clicks into place.

RoboDad

I interpret that completely differently. To me the "how is that possible" line was Vader's way of continuing his deception of the Emperor. We know from ROTS that Anakin had aspirations of taking Palpatine's place even before the suit, so it's not hard to imagine that, once he found out about his son, he would put the wheels in motion.

And I have a really hard time believing that he wouldn't have figured it out after several years of searching/investigating. It wouldn't have taken very long for him to figure out that Luke came from Tatooine, which would lead him to Owen and Beru (or what was left of them). As soon as that connection would have been made, there is no way he could think Luke is anyone BUT his son.

ViewAskewbian

This just goes to show you that sometimes leaving things open is a good thing. People can get many different things out of it. One of my favorite things about Star Wars (except not explaining the Force Ghost in a touch more detail but that is in my other thread. )

DthRdrX

Between ANH and ESB. Both Sidious and Vader become aware of Skywalker and both really want Luke to replace the other.

garyb

Palpatine only tells Vader that he killed Padme. He does not say he killed her before the kids were born.

HN

Isn't the thread title a spoiler? so putting a big *SPOILER* warning there is redundant?

RoboDad

I absolutely agree. There is plenty of room for our fertile imaginations to roam free in Lucas' universe. And as I said on another forum, as long as your vision of the "in-between" places works for you, that's all that matters.

cactusoly

This was discussed on another thread but... If you follow the EU there was a really cool comic called "Vader's Quest" that took place between Star Waes and Empire. Vader was searching for the one who destroyed the Death Star and Imperial spies found out that it was someone named Skywalker. He flipped and killed everyone with this knowlege which led to the hunt for Luke and the rebels leading into The Empire Strikes Back.

Giantrobo

Vader "discovered Leia" in ESB right? While he was fighting Luke? I can't remember.

mikehunt

not till ROTJ when fighting luke

Jackskeleton

I posted the pictures. If you follow that EU, it does lead to ESB's discussion between Palp and Vader to make it show why Vader was acting "the fool" with it all. He was being surprised by the info simply to act dumb. He was really trying to keep this info from Palp so that he could turn against Palp like he already planed.

Giantrobo

Ok thanks.

fujishig

Didn't they try to make her look like she was still pregnant at her funeral, though? Or was that just the funky dress? I thought it was done so Vader would think she died before childbirth.

I dunno how common the "Skywalker" name is, but by the time he sees him in ESB, knows he's a jedi, and knows his last name, you'd think he'd piece it together.

Jackskeleton

It was done so that the world would think that she died before childbirth.

Patman

Aren't the fetuses/babies taken out of a dead pregnant woman's womb before burial?

Nesbit

Not on Naboo.

mikehunt

and come to think of it, I don't think vader knew who luke's sister was, just that he had one

GuessWho

Just to be clear, the existence of a 2nd baby wasn't known to anyone till they were born.

Anakin/Vader thought Padme was carrying one baby.

He doesn't even know a second clild existed until "Sister? So, you have a twin sister?" in ROTJ.

KitchenSink

Makes you wonder about the level of prenatal care them droids are dishing out, don't you think?

chess

Rather than start my own stupid continuity nitpick thread, I'll just ask here...

Did anybody else have the impression that Obi-Wan didn't know about Leia? In the OT, he and Yoda had that whole "that boy is our last hope...no there is another" discussion, and I took that to mean that Obi-Wan was in the dark about Luke's twin.

In the prequel trilogy, he practically delivers them both.