Jadow

It does to me. Not that there aren't good shows, but it doesn't have the feel of a major network for two reaons in my opinion:

No 5:30 (central) national newscast

In central time, all their shows only go until 9:00 central, then from 9:00 to 10:00 they have no national presense so it's just old syndicated eps of Seinfeld where I live. Is that the same elsewhere?

twikoff

but fox will air the shows, that the other networks are afraid of
and thats why i generally like fox better
they also show more sports that the other networks
cbs has a big lead in the overall ratings.. but fox is holding their own with abc and nbc in the year to date.

mikehunt

until Family Guy came back I hadn't watched a regular show on Fox in years

mookiemeister

Yeah. Fox only have 2 hours of primetime instead of 3 hours with the big 3 network.

thismeansyou

Add to that, I find the artwork on FOX and FOX News to look really amateur... Too big and blocky and bright, and I find it hard to take Fox, especially their news, seriously. That's odd, since it contrasts with the 20th Century Fox logo in film which is one of my favourite studio intros (with all them drums and horns), and I hold up high in nostalgia because I thought it was so cool when I was a kid.

jpdude

The less news i see on FOX, the better! Another national newscast is the last thing i need to see on a network.....and i love that, as others pointed out, they take on the shows that the other networks are too afraid to touch.

pelenor

And then they cancel them after a few airings. (wonderfalls, Firefly, Brimstone,Profit,the Tick, etc. Funny how all the shows are genre shows.)

Jimmy James

It's 2 hours (3 on Sundays) vs. 3 hours (4 on Sundays) that separates the first and second rate networks in my mind. I don't have a problem watching shows on any of the newer 3, though.

Para Para

Well, FOX has only been a real station since the late '80s. Its still pretty young compared to others, which I think really hinder's the viewership. Its seen as the trashy, teenage whore. If tv stations could whore themselves...you know.

ChrisHicks

Fox could be The Jerry Springer of the networks

DeadLamb

there are a few things that FOX does that makes it seem 2nd level to me.. The biggest one is their just LAME Hdtv feed that is grainy and over all just a slight step above that fake hdtv "widescreen" they were running for years. Oh it can look good for live sports they show but even upstart UPN has x10 better looking HD then FOX for every and all shows.. In fact just about every other network has better looking HD for shows.

The other thing is their strange programing moves that look like they have no plan at all in the first place. Shocking to the say the least being they are a $$$$$$$$$ company. Cancel Tru Calling, then bring in Point Pleasant, then drop that mid way, then bring back Tru Calling, then stop short showing all those eps too by one EP.. The issue with Northshore how they ran out of time ect and squished that show to fit in and make Point Pleasant's start date in the first place. That should just never happen, it should be planned out better..

This is over looking the shows that we all say "only on FOX" like when animals attack.. I leave those out being it's amost too easy to pick on that stuff... Over all I'm shocked they are able to get their act together enough to put shows like 24 on the air and the simpsons etc..

I will also give FOX credit for taking risks in the past on stuff like XFiles and so on..

Draven

Fox will always be a second-rate network to me. Despite the renewal of "Arrested Development," a network that promotes garbage like "American Idol" and "The Simple Life" on top of every other stupid "reality" and animal-attack show they've aired make them one big joke to me.

AD, That 70s Show and occassional reruns is all the network is good for.

MrX

They're about to finish #1 overall for the year in the 18-49 year old demographic that advertisers love so they must be doing something right

Bill Needle

And FoxNews is kicking the crap out of other news departments. It triples up or more on any cable show, and I believe when taking into account the lower market penetration it beats the networks as well.

fumanstan

Not to me. But i suppose i grew up when Fox was making a name by being "edgy" and always took to Fox's shows like Married with Children, The Simpsons, and In Living Color. They've been my favorite station ever since.

Jackskeleton

#1 BABY!!! second rate my ass!!!

chowderhead

I think you have to exclude the Superbowl which they get every 3 or 4 years as special programming and thus Fox would not win 18-49 for the whole year. They have won May sweeps in terms of 18-49 but that is only on the strength of AI, House and 24.

I don't care what the network is considered. If it has quality programming, I will watch it.

twikoff

so remove their events & shows that bring in alot of viewers, and see if they get less viewers than the other networks?

Draven

To me, Fox has never been a network that aired quality programming. It doesn't matter to me if millions of people tune in, because I think a vast majority of their programming is complete garbage.

Actually, considering what passes for "entertainment" these days, it doesn't surprise me that Fox is number #1.

MovieExchange

Fallacy - appeal to popularity

wendersfan

In this context it's not entirely inappropriate, since one of the major indications a network is "first rate" is that a lot of people watch it. I think almost all network TV is crap (what little I've seen of it in the past decade, that is), but I've probably watched more Fox shows in the past decade than any other network - X-Files, Simpsons, Family Guy, Action, etc.

Red Dog

Yeah. However, in Sports, they really are ahead of the game. Their sports properties keep them close to the Big 3.

However, the following factors still makes me think they are still 2nd rate:
1. No news.
2. On UHF band in most markets.
3. Lame HD
4. Far too reliant on fad/reality programming. I for the life of me cannot fathom the appeal of AI, but if FOX didn't have that, they'd be up shit's creek.
5. Less programming

silentbob007

When the big networks are in trouble, they seem to be taking a page out of Fox's book ... ie, more trashy shows.

Red Dog

Doesn't seem that way to me. Just look at ABC this season.

auto

The Simpsons
Arrested Development
Family Guy
American Dad
King of the Hill
24

Nope. I think you are wrong sir.

And those are just the shows I watch.