Wasn't Lucas supposed to explain why bodies of Jedis don't dissapear in ep I-III but they do in IV-VI? It wasn't really explained at all!
TheNightFlier
05-23-05, 12:04 PM
Wasn't Lucas supposed to explain why bodies of Jedis don't dissapear in ep I-III but they do in IV-VI? It wasn't really explained at all!
It's implied at the end with Yoda's last conversation with Obi-Wan.
Apparently Qui-Gon had figured it out recently and only told Yoda about it. Yoda then told Obi-Wan that he could still communicate with Qui-Gon and find out how they can give themselves up to the Force when near death. This leads to the ghost/being immortal/whatever you want to call it. Palps was still searching for this and thought he and Anakin could find the secret to it.
QuiGonJosh
05-23-05, 12:10 PM
Actually, I don't think that's what Anakin and Palp we're searching for, they we're searching for the ability to stop death, IE: Keep people from dying.
Yoda said he would train Obi and they would both learn to use this in their 20 year solitude on Tatooine and Dagobah.
TheNightFlier
05-23-05, 12:39 PM
Actually, I don't think that's what Anakin and Palp we're searching for, they we're searching for the ability to stop death, IE: Keep people from dying.
Yoda said he would train Obi and they would both learn to use this in their 20 year solitude on Tatooine and Dagobah.
Technically Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Anakin/Vader are only dead in the physical sense ;)
It's just some good irony with regards to how the Jedi actually did find a way to cheat death.
Goldberg74
05-23-05, 12:49 PM
So are we saying that Qui-Gon knew he was going to die?
He seemed pretty shocked when Darth Maul ponystuck him in TPM.
chanster
05-23-05, 12:53 PM
I always thought it was possible that Qui-Gon's moment of reflection prior to facing Maul was that very moment. He had collected himself and was ready to release. That was the best part of TPM - where you knew what the Jedi were about versus the relentless hate shown by Maul's pacing.
And not surprising, there was no dialogue in that moment.
TheNightFlier
05-23-05, 12:55 PM
So are we saying that Qui-Gon knew he was going to die?
He seemed pretty shocked when Darth Maul ponystuck him in TPM.
That was my first impression too...From my understanding, this was something he found out after he died. I don't know if there's any backstory on Qui-Gon messing around before. Only that line from ep1 when Obi-Wan says something about going against the council again. Who knows, maybe he was playing around with the darkside of the force and that's how he found it.
As Chanster pointed out, maybe he was readying himself for death when meditating during the duel with Maul. I never thought of it that way, I thought he was just recharging the batteries for a few seconds.
Class316
05-23-05, 01:11 PM
Didn't Vader disappear when he died at the end of ROTJ?
Groucho
05-23-05, 01:14 PM
Didn't Vader disappear when he died at the end of ROTJ?It's never shown whether he did or not. When he is cremated, all we see is his armor.
Kal-El
05-23-05, 01:17 PM
There was a Qui-Gon scene that was supposed to be shown right before Bail tells Yoda that Obi-Wan has contacted them to explain it further. But I guess George felt it'd be redundant if he kept that and Yoda's last instructions to Kenobi. Which is weird since he kept the Jabba scene in Star Wars where the dialogue's almost exactly the same between Greedo and Han.
FYI, I think "Jedi" can be used for both singular and plural. :saber:
Class316
05-23-05, 01:56 PM
If I remember he only burns the helmet, which was already taken off Vader's head.
resinrats
05-23-05, 06:15 PM
He burnt the whole suit. Maybe he did vanish but the scene cut before he did.
An idea about buring the Vader suit. The thing has power cells in it somewhere. It would have been pretty funny if while burning, the whole suit exploded (similar to a battery in a fire) causing a massive forest fire.
Breakfast with Girls
05-23-05, 06:44 PM
From the script:
On the isolated asteroid of Polis Massa, YODA meditates.
YODA: Failed to stop the Sith Lord, I have. Still much to learn, there is ...
QUI-GON: (V.O.) Patience. You will have time. I did not. When I became one with the Force I made a great discovery. With my training, you will be able to merge with the Force at will. Your physical self will fade away, but you will still retain your consciousness. You will become more powerful than any Sith.
YODA: Eternal consciousness.
QUI-GON: (V.O.) The ability to defy oblivion can be achieved, but only for oneself. It was accomplished by a Shaman of the Whills. It is a state acquired through compassion, not greed.
YODA: . . . to become one with the Force, and influence still have . . . A power greater than all, it is.
QUI-GON: (V.O.) You will learn to let go of everything. No attachment, no thought of self. No physical self.
YODA: A great Jedi Master, you have become, Qui-Gon Jinn. Your apprentice I gratefully become.
Class316
05-24-05, 10:41 AM
From the script:
On the isolated asteroid of Polis Massa, YODA meditates.
YODA: Failed to stop the Sith Lord, I have. Still much to learn, there is ...
QUI-GON: (V.O.) Patience. You will have time. I did not. When I became one with the Force I made a great discovery. With my training, you will be able to merge with the Force at will. Your physical self will fade away, but you will still retain your consciousness. You will become more powerful than any Sith.
YODA: Eternal consciousness.
QUI-GON: (V.O.) The ability to defy oblivion can be achieved, but only for oneself. It was accomplished by a Shaman of the Whills. It is a state acquired through compassion, not greed.
YODA: . . . to become one with the Force, and influence still have . . . A power greater than all, it is.
QUI-GON: (V.O.) You will learn to let go of everything. No attachment, no thought of self. No physical self.
YODA: A great Jedi Master, you have become, Qui-Gon Jinn. Your apprentice I gratefully become.
Yoda as an apprentice?? That's hard to imagine!
I wonder why they didn't show that in the movie. It explains why Yoda and Obi Wan vanish in ep 4-5. Also explains why Vader was surprised and looking for Obi Wan's body after the duel.
Though I'm surprised Yoda didn't mention to Qui-Gon "Told you so, I did. To the dark side, Anakin is turned."
raven56706
05-24-05, 11:36 AM
If I remember he only burns the helmet, which was already taken off Vader's head.
he wanted to burn only the helmet because he wanted to put the rest of the suit on Ebay.
Class316
05-24-05, 12:39 PM
he wanted to burn only the helmet because he wanted to put the rest of the suit on Ebay.
That sound really silly.
The complete outfit would go for sooooo much higher.
uberjoe
05-24-05, 12:39 PM
he wanted to burn only the helmet because he wanted to put the rest of the suit on Ebay.
That's so fucking stupid... I would have paid much more for the helmet than for the suit.
Hollow Man
05-24-05, 12:55 PM
It should be noted that via the script, Qui-Gon says he figures out how to maintain his own consciousness AFTER he merges with the Force. Which explains why his body didn't disappear after Maul killed him.
Yoda and Obi-Wan learn this trick from Qui-Gon BEFORE they die, so their bodies disappear at the critical moment.
In my opinion, Vader's body doesn't disappear, but because Anakin is the strongest Jedi that ever lived, like Qui-Gon he's able to figure out how to do this after he dies.
-HM
CPA-ESQ.
05-24-05, 01:18 PM
because Anakin is the strongest Jedi that ever lived, like Qui-Gon he's able to figure out how to do this after he dies.
This makes the most sense !! I do believe now.
Thanks
Hollow Man
05-24-05, 02:01 PM
Lucas is far from perfect in tidying up his plot issues between the two trilogies, so I do my best to fill 'em up myself where there's need.
Buy: