Nefarious

We currently just have a standard 32" TV and we would like to upgrade. I would like to spend less than $1,500 and get the best bang for the buck in terms of viewing size & quality.

I had been leaning heavily towards a ceiling mounted projector (like an InFocus for about $800-900). The idea of getting an 80-100" image is very nice.

I guess what worries me is that if this were the best option...why aren't more people doing it?

It seems like people are still buying boxes. So would we be better off w/ a LCD or CLP projection TV instead of a projector?

I would like at least 40+ inches and would be most satisfied in the +60" range.

Would we be better served waiting another year?

Having said all that I'm terribly tempted by the Philips refurb.

http://www.outlet.philips.com/b2c_re...552179&SID=999

I just wish it weren't so small. Would it be a good short term solution or just a waste of money?

Sdallnct

One thing to consider is light control and how much will you have. FP's especially lower end ones need very good light control. Not so say you sit in a pitch black room to view it, but you want to be able to control the light. So if you are putting this in a room with very large windows, are you going to be able to or want to put up heavy drapes? Can you easily add some low level accent lighting?

There are many, many options. I have seen some where people use BOTH a regular TV and FP in the same room. At night, for parties and games they use the FP. During the day or just to get caught up on the news they use the "tubed TV". Of course others use only a FP for everything, and still others only use a FP for DVD movie nights.

Brian Shannon

Sdallnct is correct, light control. The other factor is that it is not as simple as buying a box and bringing it home and plugging it in. I planned my theater for a year. In my case, since I built the room it was more than worth it but many people do not have that option.

drmoze

If you have a decent-sized room, the best picture and size for the buck will be a crt rptv. You can get a good name-brand 55" for around $1500. Maybe bigger if you shop around etc.

Sdallnct

Hummm, I'd have to say that is at least debatable. I agree that a properly calibrated (by a professional) CRT RPTV does indeed give the best picture of just about anything out there. But your going to have to add about $200-$400 for that calibration. Plus CRT RPTV's generally also need very good light control.

So if talking strickly PQ, I'd agree.

But bang for the buck and size? My X1 cost $750 AR shipped and homemade 93" WS screen cost me about $125. Even add the ceiling mount ($10) and long video video cables ($50), and I'm at less then a grand. And with no more cost, I could have gone to 100" screen. I just went a little less to have room on my zoom to play with if needed and room size. Yes, I know the X1 is no longer available new, but folks are picking it up refurbished ones for less then $600 and if you add even $300-$400 to the above you can probably get a better projector and still be under $1,500.

I'm not saying a FP is for everyone and every situation. But IMHO, cost is not only NOT a negative for FP set up, in some cases is actually a plus.

Just my thoughts....

cajun_junky

also consider what you will be watching. If you use the projector for everyday viewing you will likely burn through alot of bulbs. For some that may add up to alot of money over time. Others may just consider it the cost of entertainment....

TheMadMonk

Also, a lot of people (non-techies, and people over 40 mostly) simply just don't know about home projectors, and what they can offer.

I have both; I use my Tv for Tv viewing, and the projector for Movies and video games.

Sdallnct

I'm 41!!!! And no way I would be considered a geek

But I understand what you are saying. You could argue that FP takes a lot more planning and thought.

However, I could argue that to get the most out of RP TV's you should do a lot of planning and thought as well.

But your point is well taken. No doubt it takes a little more work then just "plug it in and get a picture".

Slayer2005

Stay away from the philips outlet. I read a thread where several people were recieving broken merchandise.

Don't hesitate to go front projection. It'll knock your socks off. More people aren't doing it because a majority of people simply have no clue about projectors and how great they have become over these last few years (and that some great ones cost less than many big screen TVs).

My picture is 4 times the size of a 65" RPTV. It makes big screen TVS look tiny and like big ripoffs.

I'm going to make you some recommendations. If you want simplicity, excellent quality & affordability then get the Infocus 4805. Combine it with a home theater pc (HTPC) with FFDShow and you can make DVDs look incredibly close to HD. If you are willing to sacrifice some simplicity to get the best in terms of picture quality (but at an affordable price) then get a CRT projector. I got an ECP4500+ and it rocks hard. Blow my digital out of the water (and I love it too). You'd have to pay several thousand dollars to get a digital (DLP/LCD) that could almost equal it.

CRT projector provides the blackest blacks you'll ever see. Blacks on a CRT make the theater and every other technology look poor in comparison. I promise you've never seen blacks like this from front projection (or LCD/DLP technlogy) in your life. It adds to picture depth. Dark scenes looks SO much better on CRT. CRT isn't simple like a digital projector though, but they give you the best picture quality at the best prices. My ECP4500+ cost only $600 with S&H and it blows away my $1,000 X1 DLP (Nowadays it's a $600 digital). Don't get me wrong, you'll be blown away by a $1,000 digital today, but you won't be aware of what you're missing until you have seen CRT, because even the local cinemas cannot do dark scenes the way a CRT can, because they all use bulbs. CRT does not, which is why the blacks are so much blacker. Another downfall is that CRTs are MUCH heavier than digitals.

If you are after the best picture quality at the best price look for an ECP4500+ or something similar (that's assuming you don't mind a larger projector and a more difficult setup). If you want simplicity and still a great picture than get the Infocus 4805. The 4805 will pretty much look like a 100" Plasma. Except a 100" Plasma would probably cost about $50,000.

Afrer you see front projection you won't believe how much of a waste rear projection TVs suddenly seem like.

The DLP (Infocus X1) and the CRT (ECP4500+) I have can both be had for about a total of $1,150-$1,400. So, knowing that I can't think of a bigger ripoff than bigscreen TVs.

Again, do not hesitate to go to front projection. Once most people who spent a couple grand on a big screen tv see my setup they can't believe they wasted their money. A majority of people have no clue what kind of front projection quality can be had at low prices. Some aren't even aware about front projection home cinema at all. Others assume it's for the rich and famous and can't be afforded by regular consumers.

Another reason is bad demos or no demos. Stores like Best Buy aren't going to give a good demo of an incredible projector like a 4805 to the public, because afterwards no one would want a tiny 50" $2,500-$3,000+ Plasma/DLP/LCD TV after seeing the 4805 in action.

If you get the 4805 OR a CRT Projector you will be amazed at either (the CRT will amaze you more though once set up right). I think there are some places where you can now get the 4805 for under $900 (it's normally a $1,200 pj). You definitely won't regret it.

For most people I'd recommend the 4805, but for those obsessed over picture quality I'd recommend CRT.

TheMadMonk

I won't dispute that CRTs have better black levels then DLPs, but they do have drawbacks of their own.

REL77

FP takes alot of consideration. Look at the pics in my Sig to see my FP set up. My room is completly light controlled and is perfect for it (maybe to small). I dont watch anything but DVDs and HDTV on it. I keep my 30" 16:9 wega in the room (once again see pics). One thing to consider with FP is sound, do you already have a sound system? With such a big picture, you have to have matching 'big' sound. I truely life Front Projection, its certainly the way to go, but not as a main TV source. Bulbs cost $300 eaach, and last generally 3000Hours, but not gureneteed to last that long. Like i said, it takes alot of planning, instalation, things to consider. People have to think about how big the screens really are, do they have enough wall space, the throw distance of teh FP, light controll, ect... Best advice is... www.avsforum.com . Do LOTS of research on FPs, pick the right one. Another great site is www.projectorcentral.com

drmoze

Coupla comments:

Agree, projectors can be cheap for a nice big pic, but you gotta have a dark room. (If I had a basement HT I'd probably go projector for that and love it!) But, in "bang for the buck" you gotta factor in the cost of pricey bulb for a projector, esp. if (as I read the OP's post) you use it for everyday watching. My first crt prtvlasted a solid decade of constant watchingwith never a problem. I expect my currentone to last as long.

As for calibrating a crt rp, you don't really need a professional calibration to get an excellent picture IMO. (To get the BEST picture, yeah, but you can get an amazingpicture by just setting levels andconvergence properly, plus a bit oftweakingfor linearity.) HD and DVDs will look natural andclean with just the basic settigns done right--a minortask that many people and all store displays fail to do.

As for light level, not a real issue with crt rptv's. My last house had a bright LR with huge southern-exposure windows. The pictures these days remain full
in just about anything up to direct sunlight on the screen itself. Lateral viewing angles are also very good, and the only limitation is vertical viewing angle. But if everyone is sitting to watch (or standing several feet away) this is not an issue.

Projectors are much better and cheaper than just a couple of years ago. If/when I buy a house again and set up a basement HT,it will be a projector. But you have to factor in the expensive bulbs when considering the value factor.

Plasmas are getting much cheaper and better pq all the time. In a year or 2 it looksto melike crts will be giving up the edge in value when size is factored in, although it is not quite there yet IMO. crt's are mature technology and nothing beats theiur black levels--not just how black it gets but how well the shades of black in dark scenes are discernible. (Plasmas are getting noticeably better here tho.)

Sdallnct

Like I say, overall I agree with you. A CRT RPTV does give you the best pic. But IMHO there are as many drawbacks as any other system. Space being at least one issue.

Tho I totally agree each person should assess their needs and decide on what is best with them.

Two points of yours I do disagree with;

-You seem to suggest that a PJ is only good in a basement. It is not. I agree light control is needed, but it is not so bad that only a basement will work. I have an entire wall of windows in my media room and got some decent cool looking drapes that add to the "movie theater" feel.
-Bulbs are an overblown issue. Right now a bulb for mine runs $250 (and that surely will come down in the coming years). A bulb will typically last 4000 hours. Even at three hours a day every single day that works out to a little over 3.5 years! Heck I could see myself upgrading to a HD PJ before the bulb even goes out! While I have my PJ in a dedicated media room, I have it set to watch TV as well as DVD's (movie night). Will be awesome for games, CSI, and anything else you want to watch. IMHO FP should be for everything!

Anyway...I agree planning is essential and deciding what is important to you. A person should make a list of what is important to them. For some the ultimate in black levels is what is important and I would agree a CRT RPTV would be the way to go. For other's the huge picture is most important so a FP is the way to go. Others may want the brightest image possible and in that case maybe one of the LCD or DLP RPTV's is the way to go.

kvrdave

This will show you what I went through to go with a ceiling mount front projector. Absolutely worth it.

http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=384579

mondyc

two reasons projector quality isn't known is because 1) not avalible at most stores, except for true dedicated stores and 2) people think movie theatre quality is 5000 dollars. 2 is wrong. My brother has an infocus projector he got for 1400 and it looks better than the movie theatre. and as for lighting, projectors can hand a little bit of light, but not much. and for the best picture with a box TV, you need to have the lights dimmed to a certain point for the best picture

TomMiller

Very few stores do a decent job of marketing projectors, in my experience. Ultimate electronics projector room, when I went for a demo, had a lot of light spill from the main room, was showing a standard definition cable signal with the sound off, and was only displaying fairly expensive projectors. If I hadn't known better, I would have thought that front projection gave me a huge washed out picture of mediocre resolution for around ten grand.

Even the boutique stores I checked out had poor demos. No light control, and as they are trying to sell to a high end market, they had no inexpensive projectors and they make you believe you need to spend 10-20 grand to do it right.

Not that there is something wrong with spending 20 grand if you have it lying around, but that isn't what most of the buying public can do. What I tell people is that you can get a great 120" diagonal picture for less than you would generally spend on a RPTV one fourth the size.

FP isn't for everyone, but anyone who owns one will tell you about the "wow factor" you get from guests who see it. It is very doable if you have the space, the light control, and the willingness to do some modest DIY to set it up.

Nefarious

Thanks for the information and feedback everyone. I'll use it to convince the wife we need to do a front projector

THORN

as stated before light control is key ..... but given that factor is under control your choice boils down to this :

$1500 for 55-60 INCH screen

or

$1500 for 16+ FEET of sreen

like the saying ....size does matter !!!!

ps: i own a pannasonic PT-L500u 1280x720p native LCD projector shooting at a dalite 106" 16x9 screen. its in my basement and its phenominal !!! best thing I have ever bought hands down.

thorn