raven56706

Russia needs to do something because this is getting out of hand

Pharoh

One of the reasons I am not surprised that this sort of thing hasn't happened in America, is because of capabilities. Russia, as a nation and as a society, doesn't have the necessary capabilities to stop this.

Th0r S1mpson

Honestly, I don't see how we do either.

DVD Polizei

I have to agree with Thor. The US has no more capabilities than any other nation when it comes to terrorist behavior. And actually, I think the US is a much softer target. It's just a matter of time before some people get a clue and start doing things over here.

eXcentris

Yup!

Not to mention that instead ot trying to mobilize and gain the support of the majority of the Chechen population who reject fundamentalist Islam, Putin has done nothing but exclude and alienate them.

eXcentris

Well yes and no. The (somewhat moderate) pro-independence Chechen rebels who were fighting in the 90's have slowly been replaced by a new breed of Islamic fundamentalists Chechens on a mission of Jihad. A lot of them were trained in Afghanistan by Al Quaeda and I would argue that a lot of them aren't Chechens at all. The majority of the Chechen population reject Islamic fundamentalism. And as I noted above, Putin did absolutely nothing to gain the support of that population.

saoirse

Correct. It has never been about religion in the north of Ireland. It is just easier for the media to report it that way. It just so happens that the majority of one religion is on one side while the other mostly happen to be on another side. The struggle in Ireland is about uniting Ireland as one country (as it will one day again be) and equal rights for Irish in the north.

If you want to learn more on the subject, check out these books:

Trinity by Leon Uris (describes very well the hundreds of years of history...)

Belfast Diary (a journalist's accounts of living in the north of Ireland - having a false pretention, then learning from his surroundings).

Or for DVD fans... check out Bloody Sunday (where you will see that the leader of the Irish Civil Rights movement happend to be protestant and saw how the Irish Catholics were treated as second class citizens and he had the balls to do something about it.

Or Some Mother's Son (I think only available on VHS right now). This goes through the history of the hunger strikers. Very powerful movie.

Sorry to sidetrack this thread, I just wanted to clarify that one very previlant misconception.

DVD Polizei

Well, if you had terrorist acts in your nation, wouldn't you exclude and alienate them? I sure would. I expect the same in the US.

Russia's Alfa terrorist team will probably get this over with by Friday or the weekend. I don't see how these guys can think their terrorist buds being set free is going to help any. They will be hunted down and slaughtered.

But I do have to admit, these acts are better coordinated than what Al Qaeda have tried to do (post 9/11). Al Qaeda speaks more than they talk. The Chechen terrorists act more than they talk. I would fear these Chechen terrorists more than Al Qaeda.

Th0r S1mpson

It didn't take 15 armed men to do this here, it took two punks that went to the school. And they could have blown the place up if they did it right. The outcome was tragic and could have been much worse.

eXcentris

Please see my 2nd post.

saoirse

As for the current situation in Russia. I honestly do not know a lot about the struggle and so I can't comment with any strength where the fault lies (as I hate it when people assume to know what happens in the north of Ireland when reality is not reported often). But I have to say it is never acceptable to harm or threaten to harm innocent children. I do hope and pray they find some peaceful resolution and avoid killing more innocents.

DVD Polizei

Well, the weakest points in a civilized society will always reap a terrorist large body counts.

Myster X

Russia + Chechnya = Israeli + Palestinian
they going down that path

matome

Exactly. Harris and Klebold had free reign of Columbine High, wandering the halls while the cops and SWAT twiddled their thumbs outside, afraid to do anything. Surprised it has happened since.

Hokeyboy

I'm all for the "terrorist kills our children, we kill terrorist's entire family" argument.

They're more than ready and willing to die for Allah, but are they willing to sacrifice their son? Daughter? Mom? Grandmother? Uncle Moishe?

This is extreme. But I think it's a language they'll easily understand.

raven56706

Uncle Moishe???? damn he is still alive..... that bastard

Th0r S1mpson

Some terrorists have been disowned by their own families.

Tommy Ceez

How come I have a feeling that a VERY low percentage of terrorists have an Uncle Moishe?

Hokeyboy

They should disown them the old fashioned way: with a boat-hook.

I would say that if I had a cousin or a brother or a father running around blowing up children and innocents, in the name of God or Country or Power, I'd personally put a bullet in his brain and not regret it for a minute.

But then again I'm a MAJOR douchebag sometimes.

Pharoh

Big difference in the makeup of the population, and whom that populace supports.

Pharoh

I had a long post typed out and almost finished about why these type of attacks will not become the norm in America. However, I became too distracted to finish it and I am too lazy to redo it. So, my feelings were summed up nicely by eX Our society and our security forces are eminently more prepared to deal with these situtions, deal with them before they even happen. I am absolutely convinced that planned attacks since 9/11 have been thwarted, as example.

Can isolated incidences happen? Of course they can, and might. The people and government of America make this frequently happening almost an impossibility.

covenant

WWSD?

Pharoh

He couldn't screw it up much more than the Russians have done with their two previous situations that were similar.

Myster X

Doesn't matter. Chechnya is pretty much lawless and any gov't officials show their support for mother Russia are targeted. I don't think the militants think twice which side the populace suports. They simply want the Russians out.

Pharoh

It does matter though. As my Canadian friend correctly pointed out, most of those engaged in committing acts of violent terrorism are not same individuals as those who were fighting ten years ago. They are fundamentalist who desire to implement Sharia so that they can control the population, a population who doesn't by and large want them there. I understand what you are saying, but perhaps a more analogous situation would be the ones in the Phillipines or even Afghanistan. Of course it is unique because of the whole autonomy issue.