From here... (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/20041226/ap_on_re_as/indonesia_earthquake)
:eek:
Tidal Waves Kill More Than 3,800 in Asia
World - AP Asia
By LELY T. DJUHARI, Associated Press Writer
JAKARTA, Indonesia - The world's most powerful earthquake in 40 years triggered massive tidal waves that slammed into villages and seaside resorts across Asia on Sunday, killing more than 3,800 people in six countries.
Tourists, fishermen, homes and cars were swept away by walls of water up to 20 feet high that swept across the Bay of Bengal, unleashed by the 8.9-magnitude earthquake centered off the west coast of the Indonesian island of Sumatra.
In Sri Lanka, 1,000 miles west of the epicenter, more than 2,150 people were killed, the prime minister's office said. Indian officials said as many as 1,130 died along the southern coast. At least 408 died on Sumatra from floods and collapsing buildings. Another 168 were confirmed dead in Thailand, 28 in Malaysia and 2 in Bangladesh.
But officials expected the death toll to rise dramatically, with hundreds reported missing and all communications cut off to Sumatran towns closest to the epicenter. Hundreds of bodies were found on various beaches along India's southern state of Tamil Nadu, and more were expected to be washed in by the sea, officials said.
atlantamoi
12-26-04, 08:44 AM
Jeez... sitting here in my landlocked home, this kind of thing is really hard to fathom.
Nature is sucky sometimes.
OldDude
12-26-04, 09:13 AM
Reuters is now reporting over 6300 as of 1340 GMT.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&e=1&u=/nm/20041226/ts_nm/quake_dc
DVD Polizei
12-26-04, 09:21 AM
Wow. One of the unfortunate things of living in those areas, is that you're on sea level. Great places but if nature decides to shake irregularly, well, you got problems.
Giantrobo
12-26-04, 10:47 AM
I'm worried. My favorite Indian girls on this "webcam site";) are in Thailand. :(
Grimfarrow
12-26-04, 10:58 AM
I'm really worried. It's the Christmas holidays, and I have friends who went on vacations to Phuket and India. I hope they're OK.
Wow. One of the unfortunate things of living in those areas, is that you're on sea level. Great places but if nature decides to shake irregularly, well, you got problems.
Much worse than living at sea level is being poor. Wealthier is healthier.
(Not trying to be callous here. Just the truth. Give any people freedom and they will make themselves wealthier.)
devilshalo
12-26-04, 01:02 PM
First the 8.5 quake then the tidal wave... :( I know a couple of people down there and hope they're ok.
Mopower
12-26-04, 01:10 PM
-ohbfrank-
How do you measure wealth? By money? By how many TV's a person has? I know this is hard to conceive, but in some cultures, money is not as important as enjoying friendships or truly living.
And that has to do with the conversation how?
By the way he said "Wealthier is healthier" meaning the people with the money will probably get a doctor and help faster than people without. Jeeze like to argue for no reason?
Fox News is saying over 9000 dead now. Holy shit, marry freaking christmas!
VinVega
12-26-04, 01:21 PM
I wish there was some video of the Tsunami wave event. A tremendous act of mother nature. Sad that so many people died, but scientifically, amazing.
Nick Danger
12-26-04, 01:29 PM
Much worse than living at sea level is being poor. Wealthier is healthier.
(Not trying to be callous here. Just the truth. Give any people freedom and they will make themselves wealthier.)
I'm not sure how this relates. Los Angeles is wealthy and on the ring of fire. If it were hit with a tsunami during a summer holiday weekend, how would things have been better?
I'd also argue that the existence of a beachfront resort suggests capitalism and a substantial amount of wealth.
Grimfarrow
12-26-04, 01:50 PM
Thank god - my friends vacationing in India just contacted me back, and they're fine. But they are in the affected state of Kerala, where at least 121 people have been killed. It's chaos right now over there, but I'm very glad they're OK.
*EDIT* the death toll in Kerala is now over 300. yikes.
Grimfarrow
12-26-04, 02:20 PM
Total death toll from the tsunami as of right now: 11,300
Here's a map of it:
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20041226/asia_quake_map.gif
mllefoo
12-26-04, 03:36 PM
People as far away as east africa have been killed by tsunamis.
BizRodian
12-26-04, 03:37 PM
Holy shit, how the hell did the waves get that big?
mllefoo
12-26-04, 03:41 PM
Dude. 8.9 quake.
That's huge.
It's amazing there's been nothing on the hawaiian or california coast.
mllefoo
12-26-04, 03:43 PM
You know, it's funny. The article mentions the rarity of magnitude 8 and over quakes, and then goes on to mention the 8+ magnitude between australia and antarctica two days ago, the 8.5 in Japan a year ago, and the over 8 a year before that somewhere in that general vicinity.
That doesn't seem all that rare to me.
For the record, I believe Chile had the world's largest quake early in the 20th century. It measured around a 9.5 or greater. I will dig up the link.
List of largest quakes in history http://earthquake.usgs.gov/docs/sign_eqs.htm
Chile registered as 9.5 in the 1950s. I was a little off.
mllefoo
12-26-04, 03:48 PM
List of aftershocks including yesterday's sumatran quake:
6.3 2004/12/26 11:05:01 13.542 92.877 10.0 ANDAMAN ISLANDS, INDIA REGION
MAP 6.2 2004/12/26 10:19:30 13.455 92.791 10.0 ANDAMAN ISLANDS, INDIA REGION
MAP 5.5 2004/12/26 10:18:13 8.950 93.730 10.0 NICOBAR ISLANDS, INDIA REGION
MAP 6.5 2004/12/26 09:20:01 8.867 92.382 10.0 NICOBAR ISLANDS, INDIA REGION
MAP 5.8 2004/12/26 07:38:25 13.119 93.051 10.0 ANDAMAN ISLANDS, INDIA REGION
MAP 5.7 2004/12/26 07:07:10 10.336 93.756 10.0 ANDAMAN ISLANDS, INDIA REGION
MAP 5.7 2004/12/26 06:21:58 10.623 92.323 10.0 ANDAMAN ISLANDS, INDIA REGION
MAP 7.3 2004/12/26 04:21:26 6.901 92.952 10.0 NICOBAR ISLANDS, INDIA REGION
6.1 2004/12/26 03:08:42 13.808 92.974 10.0 ANDAMAN ISLANDS, INDIA REGION
MAP 5.9 2004/12/26 02:59:12 3.177 94.259 10.0 OFF THE WEST COAST OF NORTHERN SUMATRA
MAP 6.0 2004/12/26 02:51:59 12.511 92.592 10.0 ANDAMAN ISLANDS, INDIA REGION
MAP 5.8 2004/12/26 02:36:06 12.139 93.011 10.0 ANDAMAN ISLANDS, INDIA REGION
MAP 5.8 2004/12/26 02:34:50 4.104 94.184 10.0 OFF THE WEST COAST OF NORTHERN SUMATRA
MAP 6.0 2004/12/26 02:22:02 8.838 92.532 10.0 NICOBAR ISLANDS, INDIA REGION
MAP 5.8 2004/12/26 02:15:58 12.375 92.509 10.0 ANDAMAN ISLANDS, INDIA REGION
MAP 5.9 2004/12/26 01:48:47 5.393 94.423 10.0 NORTHERN SUMATRA, INDONESIA
MAP 8.9 2004/12/26 00:58:51 3.298 95.779 10.0 OFF THE WEST COAST OF NORTHERN SUMATRA
kantonburg
12-26-04, 03:49 PM
Reuters is now reporting almost 10,000 killed. Jeez.
edit: Just saw the 11,300....double Jeez
ChiTownAbs, Inc
12-26-04, 04:01 PM
Wow. My sister is in India right now, but I know she is just fine as they are on the Western side of the country.
11,000 though. Holy shit.
Giantrobo
12-26-04, 04:24 PM
This news is sad and shocking. I mean I can't imagine 11,000 people being killed like that. They said the "luckily" the wave hit in the early morning <i>before</i> the beaches were full of people.
mllefoo
12-26-04, 06:18 PM
The problem with soemthing like this is all the aftershocks are severe enough to spawn more tidal waves.
Some of the aftershocks were as big as the Loma Prieta quake in '89. (7.1)
vhgong
12-26-04, 07:25 PM
Its up to 12,300 and counting!!! -ohbfrank-
movielib
12-26-04, 07:32 PM
-ohbfrank-
How do you measure wealth? By money? By how many TV's a person has?
Wealthier people tend to live longer. Wealthier people tend to have more substantial housing. Wealthier people tend to have better medical care. Wealthier people tend to get better and faster warnings of coming disasters (when possible). Put it all together and many, many fewer people die in similar disasters (natural disasters, plagues etc.) in developed countries than in developing countries.
I know this is hard to conceive, but in some cultures, money is not as important as enjoying friendships or truly living.
While I didn't mean my post as a measure of superior values or morality, show me the people who truly would rather be poor than rich. It's usually the people who are wealthier who romanticize the "moral superiority and better lives and values of the poor people closer to nature."
I'd like to see everyone have the degree of freedom (both personal and economic) which we have enjoyed for a few hundred years. I suspect we'd see them get richer until they also romanticize the good old days when they had a life expectancy of forty and lived in abject poverty "in harmony with nature."
What makes you think that being wealthier makes it harder to "enjoy friendships" or "truly live"? Are they somehow mutually exclusive?
vhgong
12-26-04, 07:35 PM
Here is link to some pictures.
http://www.pbase.com/issels/phuket_tsunami
ChiTownAbs, Inc
12-26-04, 07:47 PM
Here is link to some pictures.
http://www.pbase.com/issels/phuket_tsunami
Wow. Where did you find these pictures??
vhgong
12-26-04, 08:21 PM
Wow. Where did you find these pictures??
A friend send me a link.
Tommy Ceez
12-26-04, 08:33 PM
Those pics look fake...that guy would be getting thousands from the papers for those shots instead of posting them on p-base
And as far as the whole rich/poor nonsence that someone brought up...1000's more will die from disease and lack of clean drinking water and inefficient rescue operations because these countries are piss poor than would have died in the US...end of story
Tommy Ceez
12-26-04, 08:47 PM
BTW...for the guy who said rich/poor has nothing to do with it...
Warnings could have saved thousands: USGS
December 27, 2004 - 6:22AM
A warning centre such as those used around the Pacific could have saved most of the thousands of people who died in Asia's earthquake and tsunamis, a US Geological Survey official said.
None of the countries most severely affected - including India, Thailand, Indonesia and Sri Lanka - had a tsunami warning mechanism or tidal gauges to alert people to the wall of water that followed a massive earthquake, said Waverly Person of the USGS National Earthquake Information Centre.
"Most of those people could have been saved if they had had a tsunami warning system in place or tide gauges," he said yesterday.
"And I think this will be a lesson to them," he said, referring to the governments of the devastated countries.
Person also said that because large tsunamis, or seismic sea waves, are extremely rare in the Indian Ocean, people were never taught to flee inland after they felt the tremors of an earthquake.
Tsunami warning systems and tide gauges exist around the Pacific Ocean, for the Pacific Rim as well as South America. The United States has such warning centres in Hawaii and Alaska operated by the US Geological Survey. But none of these monitors the Indian Ocean region.
The 8.9-magnitude underwater quake - one of the most powerful in history - off the Indonesian island of Sumatra devastated southern Asia and triggered waves of up to 10 metres high.
US seismologists said it was unlikely the Indian Ocean region would be hit any time soon by a similarly devastating tsunami because it takes an enormously strong earthquake to generate one.
"That's really what has created all of these problems - is that the earthquake is just so massive," said Dan Blakeman, a USGS earthquake analyst.
But Person said governments should instruct people living along the coast to move after a quake. Since a tsunami is generated at the source of an underwater earthquake, there is usually time - from 20 minutes to two hours - to get people away as it builds in the ocean.
"People along the Japanese coasts, along the coasts of California - people are taught to move away from the coasts. But a lot of these people in the area where this occurred - they probably had no kind of lessons or any knowledge of tsunamis because they are so rare."
A major tsunami, a Japanese word meaning "harbor wave," occurs in the Pacific Ocean about once a decade. It is generated by vertical movement during an earthquake and sometimes incorrectly referred to as a tidal wave, according to the Web site of the US National Geophysical Data Centre.
Because of the lack of monitoring mechanisms, the US Geological Survey had no access to government or scientific information in the areas affected by the latest tsunamis.
"I've been talking to our tsunami people and they have no contact with any of these nations on the tsunamis," said Person. "We don't have anyone there. We get it from the press."
Those pics look fake...that guy would be getting thousands from the papers for those shots instead of posting them on p-base
How do you know its fake? Or What do you mean its fake?
Original Desmond
12-26-04, 10:50 PM
This is aweful!
it's like the Day after Tommorrow and the Perfect storm come to live tenfold!
chrisfelice
12-26-04, 10:55 PM
Any video of the wave?
BigDaddy
12-26-04, 11:00 PM
(CNN) -- A celebrity interior decorator vacationing in Sri Lanka said Monday that all he could see was "utter devastation" in the wake of a deadly tsunami that slammed the island.
"We were completely devastated yesterday morning," Nate Berkus told CNN. "There was absolutely no warning."
Berkus, a regular contributor to "The Oprah Winfrey Show," said he and a friend were sleeping in a beachfront cottage at Arugam Bay on Sri Lanka's eastern coast when he heard a loud noise and the roof was ripped off.
Berkus, 33, said they were swept into the sea along with debris, animals and other people.
The two grabbed a telephone pole, he said, but lost their grips when a second large wave hit. Berkus told CNN that he climbed onto the roof of a home; his friend was missing.
Berkus said he and about 50 other survivors -- tourists and locals -- spent the rest of the night in a field, but were without water and food. Many of the group were injured, including a pregnant woman who had broken ribs, he said.
Members of the Sri Lankan army had taken a few of the injured away in helicopters, he said, and told the rest of the group that other helicopters would arrive at sunrise.
"It's just been utter devastation. Bodies everywhere," Berkus said. "I'm very scraped up, but luckily I'm OK ... against that kind of force of nature, there was nothing any of us could do."
Berkus said that lost everything he had with him.
"I'm sitting here with nothing -- no passport, no money, no anything, in shorts that somebody gave me ... the bottom line is, we desperately need help here."
Berkus is the founder of Nate Berkus Associates in Chicago, Illinois. He has made at least 20 appearances on "Oprah.
Crazy what mother nature can do.
bdshort
12-26-04, 11:34 PM
Those pics look fake...that guy would be getting thousands from the papers for those shots instead of posting them on p-base
What about them looks fake to you? He'd have to go to quite the effort to fake all of those, seeing as you can view the original 16 megapixel file for all of them. (they were taken with a Canon EOS 1Ds Mark II).
Brianr
zuffy
12-27-04, 12:01 AM
Those pics look fake...that guy would be getting thousands from the papers for those shots instead of posting them on p-base
You think it's fake just because you think he didn't goto the press with it?
DVD Polizei
12-27-04, 12:06 AM
Those pics look fake...that guy would be getting thousands from the papers for those shots instead of posting them on p-base
The photos are fake? He wouldn't necessarily be getting "thousands" because it may not be in his interest to score some cash. Also, I'm sure there are thousands of photos being sent to news agencies already and we will see them in the following days. This guy most likely just never thought about $$$, and just wanted to take photos.
Heat
12-27-04, 01:12 AM
The death toll is up to 13,340 (per Yahoo).
And I know it's wrong, but the song "Surfing USA" keeps going through my head as I think about the tsunami with it's 20 foot waves.
vhgong
12-27-04, 01:15 AM
I am waiting to see if there are any religious leaders smart enough to be the spokesperson for their maker.
DVD Polizei
12-27-04, 01:15 AM
I never thought of the term "Involuntary Surfing", until now. Everybody's surfing now...in one way or another. :(
Thunderball
12-27-04, 02:58 AM
14,000 (as of 3AM this morning) are wiped off the earth .
Incredibly horrible and yet its a naturally occuring disaster. Crazy shit.
....the death toll is now over 17,000. And it's still increasing.
Giantrobo
12-27-04, 05:17 AM
I heard 2 things that blew me away and I wonder if anyone else has heard this or confirmed this.
1. Sumatra was literally moved 100 feet south of it's pre-quake position.
2. The quake was so large that when it hit, the Earth's gravitation was affected.
:eek:
DVD Polizei
12-27-04, 05:25 AM
#2 is definitely not good.
SomeVoices
12-27-04, 05:41 AM
CNN is saying over 20,000 now and rising. Does anybody know the highest death toll ever from a natural disaster?
naughty jonny
12-27-04, 06:04 AM
I think Iran had over 30,000 people killed last year in an earthquake.
ChiTownAbs, Inc
12-27-04, 06:04 AM
Per Guinness ... Highest Earthquake Death Toll Of Modern Times (http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/content_pages/record.asp?recordid=47757)
The highest earthquake death toll in modern times was caused by one that hit Tangshan, China, on July 28, 1976. The official figure of 655,237 deaths was first adjusted to 750,000 and then to 242,000.
Highest Death Toll From A Flood (http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/content_pages/record.asp?recordid=49215)
An estimated 900,000 people were killed when the Huang He (Yellow River), Huayan Kou, China, burst its banks in October 1887.
Highest Death Toll From An Earthquake (http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/content_pages/record.asp?recordid=49217)
An earthquake that struck the Shaanxi, Shanxi, and Henan Provinces of China on February 2, 1556, is believed to have killed approximately 830,000 people.
naughty jonny
12-27-04, 06:07 AM
Actually, did a search, and Bam (Iran last january) got around 42,000 people. One in 1976 in China killed 242,000 people (Guinness Book web site), which, I guess makes it the highest modern one.
Original Desmond
12-27-04, 06:20 AM
Fuck this kinda figures puts terrorist attacks and serial killers into perpective doesn't it
The death toll is already upto 25000, i reckon it will be 40000 by the time it finishes and so many lives ruined
I bet Saddam or Bin Laden is gonna try claim responsibilty " we prayed to budda or who the fuck they worship for this to happen"
Stupid pricks
To the religious amongst you, why did God let this happen ?
Not having a go at all the jesus nuthuggers or anything , just curious
RoyalTea
12-27-04, 06:32 AM
To the religious amongst you, why did God let this happen ?
Not having a go at all the jesus nuthuggers or anything , just curiousI think that this shows two things:
1) God is a kinda "hands off" guy."
2) The spirit and influence of God will be seen in the rescue efforts.
naughty jonny
12-27-04, 06:32 AM
Fuck this kinda figures puts terrorist attacks and serial killers into perpective doesn't it
The death toll is already upto 25000, i reckon it will be 40000 by the time it finishes and so many lives ruined
Hey Des. Long time, no hear. You're right about the terrorist attacks being put into persepective. Even the most devastating ones like the WTC have been nowhere near this kind of death toll.
But, it doesn't make it any more palpable though. Would be nice if we could avoid both. :)
RoyalTea
12-27-04, 06:41 AM
I don't think it's fair to compare this to terrorist attacks.
Natural disasters are inevitible. they WILL happen. That doesn't make deaths incurred during natural disasters any less horrible, but it seems even worse when so many deaths occur at the hands of man instead of at the hands of mother nature.
bdshort
12-27-04, 06:54 AM
http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/content_pages/record.asp?recordid=49217
Highest Death Toll From An Earthquake
An earthquake that struck the Shaanxi, Shanxi, and Henan Provinces of China on February 2, 1556, is believed to have killed approximately 830,000 people.
http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/content_pages/record.asp?recordid=47757
Highest Earthquake Death Toll Of Modern Times
The highest earthquake death toll in modern times was caused by one that hit Tangshan, China, on July 28, 1976. The official figure of 655,237 deaths was first adjusted to 750,000 and then to 242,000.
Yikes!
http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/content_pages/record.asp?recordid=49198
Highest Death Toll From A Tsunami
Following an earthquake off the coast of Sanriku, Japan, in 1896, approximately 27,000 people were drowned when a tsunami hit the coast. A wave that struck Shirahama had an amplitude of 38.2 m (125 ft).
Unfortunately, I think we might have a new record for tsunamis :(
Brian
edit: Damn early birds! :mad: ;) (I also never looked at the 3rd page before replying) :o
Original Desmond
12-27-04, 07:14 AM
I think that this shows two things:
1) God is a kinda "hands off" guy."
2) The spirit and influence of God will be seen in the rescue efforts.
Absolutely spot on :)
I'm so sick of hearing phrases like " it was God's will", "it was a blessing in disguise". Take some personal responsibility dammit ! If you missed the bus which happened to crash off a cliff and kill everyone it was because you were damm lucky! just like the guy who arrived earlier at the bus stop than any time this year so got this earlier bus than his usual bus and this bus crashed off a cliff was damm unlucky ! Wasn't god's will that you lived and he died.
Still just in case, to cover my bases, i'm breaking out my "i'm a jesus nuthugger and damm proud of it " compilation CD.
Has the following tracks
Kum by are - Disco remix
He's got the whole world in his hands (but he was eating some grapes which he thought were seedless but weren't so ended up spiting out some seeds, one of which dropped into the world which happened to be in his hands causing a huge tidal wave and killing thousands) - acapella version
Away in a Manager - Raunchy night version (you should see the video, that Mary in a thong leotard doing them stretches
Ok if i offended anyone religious, i don't give a fuck, your god doesn't give a fuck, why should i ?
naughty jonny
12-27-04, 08:04 AM
Des, that's a bit harsh. Noone here is saying that there was anything good about what's happened in Indonesia/India/Sri Lanka. These things do happen, and while they would seem to be an indication of an uncaring or absence of God, it doesn't necessarily mean that that is the case.
Yes, I do feel fortunate - extremely so - that I live in an affluent society and one that hasn't born the brunt of this, or any other, major disaster. I don't think that it's any of God's will or plan though that I'm here and tens of thousands aren't. It's just luck. Pure, simple, dumb luck that I was born here and not there.
Unfortunately, the world that we live in does experience pain and torment, and I guess part of <i>our</i> job is to help allievate some of that pain. You're right about the personal responsibility bit, and I guess my personal responsibility is to give something to help those in that situation.
9/11 fundraising raised $534 million for 3000-odd victims and their families. There is no reason why we shouldn't (collectively as a society) be able to dig even deeper for these guys. :)
Giantrobo
12-27-04, 08:49 AM
Not having a go at all the jesus nuthuggers or anything , just curious
Ok if i offended anyone religious, i don't give a fuck, your god doesn't give a fuck, why should i ?
Start a new thread for that dumb shit please. This isn't the right place for it. Kthxbye.
TomOpus
12-27-04, 09:09 AM
That's an incredible graphic
DVD Polizei
12-27-04, 09:19 AM
And it's not even Flash. :eek:
Charlie Goose
12-27-04, 10:04 AM
I wonder what lifeform will take over once Mother Nature scours mankind off the face of the planet.
Giantrobo
12-27-04, 10:05 AM
Awesome peon73 :up:
Geofferson
12-27-04, 10:14 AM
Man, this is such a disaster. I can't even begin to imagine what sort of recovery lies ahead.
ChiTownAbs, Inc
12-27-04, 10:15 AM
Can anybody tell me how far inland these earthquakes were felt?
In the grand scheme of things, how big is a 20 foot wave?
RevLiver
12-27-04, 10:19 AM
So this will wind up with about 40-50,000 dead and millions homeless. The floodwaters will cause disease and kill many more. I wonder what kind of response will occur. I heard this morning the EU donated $4 million. That's it? I mean, we raised over half a billion for 3000 dead on 9-11. This will take billions and it's still not going to be enough because the health, agricultural and sanitation systems are just devastated.
RevLiver
12-27-04, 10:20 AM
Can anybody tell me how far inland these earthquakes were felt?
In the grand scheme of things, how big is a 20 foot wave?
It's not the height, it's the speed with the height. The waves were moving at 500 mph. All the water along the coast is sucked out to sea, that's your first warning. At that point you've got a minute if you're lucky to seek shelter. Then all the water comes crashing in with a force strong enough to move islands, erase islands, create new ones, scour complete towns off the face of the earth.
ChiTownAbs, Inc
12-27-04, 10:26 AM
Nate Burkus, a Chicago resident, and Oprah regular was vacationing in Sri Lanka when the earthquake hit. He says he hung on to a TELEPHONE pole when the water rose. Everything he brought with is gone -- his clothes, wallet, and (probably most important) his passport.
I'm just thinking -- in a situation like this -- how do you approach the US Government and prove who you are and the fact that you need to get home? I imagine you'd get an airlift from Sri Lanka to somewhere like Japan or China where you can catch a commericial flight, but once you reach the US, how can you re-enter without a visa or passport? Could you possibly be quarantined until somebody gathers enough documents that can prove your status?
DVD Polizei
12-27-04, 10:31 AM
Maybe the money which is donated can go to an alert system. Simply rebuilding is certainly not going to help them any.
ChiTownAbs, Inc
12-27-04, 10:34 AM
It's not the height, it's the speed with the height. The waves were moving at 500 mph. All the water along the coast is sucked out to sea, that's your first warning. At that point you've got a minute if you're lucky to seek shelter. Then all the water comes crashing in with a force strong enough to move islands, erase islands, create new ones, scour complete towns off the face of the earth.
Man, didn't even think about the fact that the water on the coast would be sucked out and then fire back at 500 mph.
:eek:
DVD Polizei
12-27-04, 10:36 AM
Looks like the number is up to 22,000 dead.
B.A.
12-27-04, 10:37 AM
Nate Burkus, a Chicago resident, and Oprah regular was vacationing in Sri Lanka when the earthquake hit. He says he hung on to a TELEPHONE pole when the water rose. Everything he brought with is gone -- his clothes, wallet, and (probably most important) his passport.
I'm just thinking -- in a situation like this -- how do you approach the US Government and prove who you are and the fact that you need to get home? I imagine you'd get an airlift from Sri Lanka to somewhere like Japan or China where you can catch a commericial flight, but once you reach the US, how can you re-enter without a visa or passport? Could you possibly be quarantined until somebody gathers enough documents that can prove your status?Crisis and Emergencies Abroad (http://travel.state.gov/travel/abroad_emergency.html)
Apparently, there is a big problem with the bodies being buried in mass graves, because the locals are just digging wherever, and putting them in graves which will eventually be contaminated in the coming weeks due to deterioration.
Hek, the number just rose to 23,000. I wouldn't be surprised if this goes to 35,000 dead. This is just crazy.
Duran
12-27-04, 10:46 AM
From http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1503&ncid=1503&e=4&u=/afp/20041227/ts_afp/asiaquakeaid_041227123801
"The United States stands ready to offer all appropriate assistance to those nations most affected including Sri Lanka, the Maldives, Thailand, and Indonesia, as well as the other countries impacted," the White House said in a statement.
The whole article is about material aid that countries have sent to the area. Millions of dollars, drinking water, doctors, etc. And the U.S. "stands ready." WTF? Ready for what? Something to happen? And all we have is a White House statement?
Now maybe it's just poor media coverage, but after reading what all of those other nations are doing to see that my own hasn't done jack shit is disappointing.
DVD Polizei
12-27-04, 10:50 AM
Well, the US currently has a few dozen other hands in national emergencies around the globe. I can't say as much for other countries. But it's not like the US is thumbing their noses at this incident. Far from. I would expect volunteers from all the states to be making headlines shortly.
More video here: (click on Tsunami Death Toll Rises)
http://www.woai.com/video/
DVD Polizei
12-27-04, 11:16 AM
I've been reading a few sites in Sri Lanka, and it's said 8000+ are missing just from their area.
RoyalTea
12-27-04, 11:16 AM
From http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1503&ncid=1503&e=4&u=/afp/20041227/ts_afp/asiaquakeaid_041227123801
The whole article is about material aid that countries have sent to the area. Millions of dollars, drinking water, doctors, etc. And the U.S. "stands ready." WTF? Ready for what? Something to happen? And all we have is a White House statement?
Now maybe it's just poor media coverage, but after reading what all of those other nations are doing to see that my own hasn't done jack shit is disappointing.stands ready - I think that it might mean that the United States is willing to help, but just wants to be asked first.
DVD Polizei
12-27-04, 11:32 AM
Maybe Saudi Arabia could chip in a few hundred million. After all, the areas that were hit were mostly Muslim, if I am not mistaken. I'd like to see how much support the Muslim nations give their Muslim brothers and sisters. Should be interesting.
Also, I wonder what effect this will have on the stock market, since we have so much outsourcing in the areas affected. Looks like no Dell Customer Service for a few months, for starters.
Numanoid
12-27-04, 11:37 AM
I heard 2 things that blew me away and I wonder if anyone else has heard this or confirmed this.
1. Sumatra was literally moved 100 feet south of it's pre-quake position.
2. The quake was so large that when it hit, the Earth's gravitation was affected.
Not the Earth's gravitation...the Earth's rotation. I don't know exactly how, but I'd have to guess it gave us a little temporary wobble.
ChiTownAbs, Inc
12-27-04, 11:38 AM
Maybe Saudi Arabia could chip in a few hundred million. After all, the areas that were hit were mostly Muslim, if I am not mistaken. I'd like to see how much support the Muslim nations give their Muslim brothers and sisters. Should be interesting.
Also, I wonder what effect this will have on the stock market, since we have so much outsourcing in the areas affected. Looks like no Dell Customer Service for a few months, for starters.
My thoughts exactly. Also, it shouldn't be just money, but physical labor. These countries need thousands of supplies, but also they need people to clean up the mess.
Grimfarrow
12-27-04, 11:42 AM
Maybe Saudi Arabia could chip in a few hundred million. After all, the areas that were hit were mostly Muslim, if I am not mistaken. I'd like to see how much support the Muslim nations give their Muslim brothers and sisters. Should be interesting.
Huh? Sri Lanka, India, Burma, the Maldives and Thailand are not Muslim countries. And these make up already 75% of the dead. The only Muslim nations affected are Indonesia, Malaysia and Somalia.
vhgong
12-27-04, 11:44 AM
Saudi Arabia help???? Yeah right!! All their talk about brotha's and sista's are just talk. They really don't give a crap what happens!
Giantrobo
12-27-04, 11:47 AM
stands ready - I think that it might mean that the United States is willing to help, but just wants to be asked first.
True. Some countries refuse America's help in these situations. Hey, it's their right to do so.
DVD Polizei
12-27-04, 11:48 AM
Well, then I direct my statement towards Indonesia, Malaysia and Somalia then.
I'd still be interested in what countries offer support.
Grimfarrow
12-27-04, 11:49 AM
Also, I wonder what effect this will have on the stock market, since we have so much outsourcing in the areas affected. Looks like no Dell Customer Service for a few months, for starters.
Second thing (amazing the amount of misinformation from one post!). The India "Silicon Valley" is nowhere near the areas of disaster. They are located in the West coast, around Mumbai or near the capital in New Delhi.
nomaan
12-27-04, 11:50 AM
Maybe Saudi Arabia could chip in a few hundred million. After all, the areas that were hit were mostly Muslim, if I am not mistaken. I'd like to see how much support the Muslim nations give their Muslim brothers and sisters. Should be interesting.
Also, I wonder what effect this will have on the stock market, since we have so much outsourcing in the areas affected. Looks like no Dell Customer Service for a few months, for starters.
Government announces Rs.10 million relief for Sri Lankan earthquake victims: ISLAMABAD, Dec 27: Government announced Rs.10 million relief package for the earthquake victims of Sri Lanka, keeping in view the tragic loss of lives and property caused by earthquake and tidal waves. Under the package, relief goods comprising tents, medicines, drinking water and food items are being sent to Sri Lanka today. Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz directed to immediately send the relief goods to Sri Lanka. A plane of Pakistan Army "C-130 carrying the relief goods is leaving for Sri Lanka today. Prime Minister said that Pakistan has taken immediate action and sending the relief goods to Sri Lanka in response to their request. "It is first step from Pakistan and we will send more assistance to them", he added. (PPI) (Posted @ 14:00 PST)
Iran, Turkey who have had experiences with earthquake disasters are also helping out.
Don't have the time to scan the websites to see which other countries help out ..
Giantrobo
12-27-04, 11:50 AM
Not the Earth's gravitation...the Earth's rotation. I don't know exactly how, but I'd have to guess it gave us a little temporary wobble.
Ok, fair enough. But doesn't the rotation have something to do with the gravity? I'm not saying people started floating around like the Klingon ship in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, but I know I heard gravity when this was discussed.
Either way...wow.
Myster X
12-27-04, 11:59 AM
them number of deaths keep on rising
kuroiinu
12-27-04, 12:00 PM
I wonder what happened to all the boats and ships out in the ocean at that time. The Indian Ocean is vast and there must have been thousands of boats out there. What would happen if they were hit by a sudden 20-foot, 500 mph wave?
DVD Polizei
12-27-04, 12:01 PM
Second thing (amazing the amount of misinformation from one post!). The India "Silicon Valley" is nowhere near the areas of disaster. They are located in the West coast, around Mumbai or near the capital in New Delhi.
Labor costs are even lower in Sri Lanka than India, and British and US companies are making it--were making it--their main destination now. India is becoming oversaturated, and Sri Lanka is--or maybe was, the main choice. Sri Lanka was already beginning to expand before this major tragedy.
I would say those numbers will probably never get accounted for.
Nick Danger
12-27-04, 12:01 PM
Rotation has nothing to do with gravity. Gravity is two objects being attracted to each other. The only variables are the masses of the objects and the distance apart.
Rotational force is different. If you've ever been in a Roundup carnival ride, you've noticed that the spinning presses you against the outside of the seat. That's caused by simple acceleration. Your body is trying to go in a straight line, and the seat is pulling you in and to the left. That force towards the center of the ride is called centripetal force. You can see how it can be used to create artificial gravity in space.
DVD Polizei
12-27-04, 12:20 PM
I wonder if this change in the earth will affect the earth overall? The earth is finely tuned, and successive geological changes could really screw up things for folks like us. Time to watch Day After Tomorrow and Deep Impact.
al_bundy
12-27-04, 12:24 PM
Maybe Saudi Arabia could chip in a few hundred million. After all, the areas that were hit were mostly Muslim, if I am not mistaken. I'd like to see how much support the Muslim nations give their Muslim brothers and sisters. Should be interesting.
Also, I wonder what effect this will have on the stock market, since we have so much outsourcing in the areas affected. Looks like no Dell Customer Service for a few months, for starters.
it should affect CPU supplies. I think most of Intel's and AMD's CPUs say assembled in Malaysia. The chips are made around the world and then flown in to get assembled into the packaging in Malaysia.
al_bundy
12-27-04, 12:31 PM
From http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1503&ncid=1503&e=4&u=/afp/20041227/ts_afp/asiaquakeaid_041227123801
The whole article is about material aid that countries have sent to the area. Millions of dollars, drinking water, doctors, etc. And the U.S. "stands ready." WTF? Ready for what? Something to happen? And all we have is a White House statement?
Now maybe it's just poor media coverage, but after reading what all of those other nations are doing to see that my own hasn't done jack shit is disappointing.
probably poor media coverage
I spent 4 years in Italy and one of the unit's missions was humanitarian assistance. There are similar units in the Pacific area. The way it works is after a disaster a HAST is flown in right away. The Humanitarian Assistance Survey Team. Meanwhile the logistics for the actuall operation are prepared. The US has millions of HDR's stocked for these things that are politically correct for most culture's diets. Flying in HDR's isn't that big a deal since they are light. Water is going to be a problem. You can't just find millions of bottles of water in your local supermarket. They will need to fly in water units to make potable water and that will take a day or so because of transporting the equipment.
Chew
12-27-04, 12:43 PM
I spent all day watching football and the first I heard about this disaster is reading this thread. You'd think this could've at least caused a news desk break of some kind. -ohbfrank-
A horrible, horrible tragedy. :(
al_bundy
12-27-04, 12:57 PM
just to add, only the US and maybe Britain has the logistical capacity to launch a real aid operation. Pakistan or someone else may send one plane, but when you have tens of thousands of people affected it's only a symbol rather than real help. Only the US military has the capacity to fly in supplies from around the world to help millions of people. And with Iraq, it's going to stretch capacity a lot and it will take a few days to get things organized.
ChiTownAbs, Inc
12-27-04, 12:59 PM
Government announces Rs.10 million relief for Sri Lankan earthquake victims: ISLAMABAD, Dec 27: Government announced Rs.10 million relief package for the earthquake victims of Sri Lanka, keeping in view the tragic loss of lives and property caused by earthquake and tidal waves. Under the package, relief goods comprising tents, medicines, drinking water and food items are being sent to Sri Lanka today. Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz directed to immediately send the relief goods to Sri Lanka. A plane of Pakistan Army "C-130 carrying the relief goods is leaving for Sri Lanka today. Prime Minister said that Pakistan has taken immediate action and sending the relief goods to Sri Lanka in response to their request. "It is first step from Pakistan and we will send more assistance to them", he added. (PPI) (Posted @ 14:00 PST)
Iran, Turkey who have had experiences with earthquake disasters are also helping out.
Don't have the time to scan the websites to see which other countries help out ..
If I read this correctly, India and Pakistan have contributed Rs. 10 million.
If we use the conversion rate of Rs45/$1 the, they have contributed ~$222,000.
zuffy
12-27-04, 01:00 PM
What about China? They don't have the capacity to bring supplies to the needed countries?
Fok
12-27-04, 01:01 PM
:(
.
al_bundy
12-27-04, 01:03 PM
China can act like a bully, but the reality is that if they tried to invade taiwan they would get their ass handed to them. You can have millions of soldiers, but you need the ability to transport them and supply them. They can invade taiwan, but the soldiers will run out of ammo before they take over the country, and China doesn't have the ability to resupply them.
Only the US has the ships, planes and support units to make this thing happen. And the experience too. Planes and ships are useless unless you can manage things like find supplies around the world and move the planes to pick up the supplies and fly them to the right place.
wabio
12-27-04, 01:09 PM
CNN is now reporting the tsunami was estimated to be 33 ft high and traveling at 500 MPH. And I thought a 102 MPH fastball was scary. :eek:
These death toll figures are going to go way up. In an earlier post I said 50,000, but Indonesia and India are each reporting over 30,000 missing. This could exceed 100,000. Maybe even 150,000. And I thought the Armenian earthquakes of a decade ago were destructive, I think they topped out around 25,000.
Last I heard there were 8 Americans confirmed dead, not that an American is worth more than anyone else, but it's just info. US embassies estimate there are 800 more Americans still unaccounted for, which may just mean they have not yet been able to contact them.
Just an FYI, if anyone is ever caught in some sort of disaster, natural or man-made, overseas, you should contact a US embassy ASAP so they can contact your relatives stateside and let them know you are okay.
RevLiver
12-27-04, 01:27 PM
The total energy released by a magnitude 9.0 earthquake such as this one exceeds the total amount of energy consumed in the United States in one month, or the energy released by the wind of a hurricane like Hurricane Isabel over a period of 70 days. This amount of energy is equivalent to a mass of about 100 kg (220 lb), or enough to boil 5000 litres (1,300 US gallons) of water for every man, woman and child on the planet.
WASHINGTON - The United States dispatched disaster teams Monday and prepared a $15 million aid package to the Asian countries hit by a massive earthquake and tsunamis. U.S. officials were seeking to contact hundreds of Americans who remain unaccounted for in the region.
Secretary of State Colin Powell said eight Americans died in the natural disaster, and that embassy officials were trying to locate other U.S. citizens who have not been heard from since Sunday's quake.
"We will do everything we can to immediately help," Powell said.
U.S. officials immediately sent $100,000 each to India, Indonesia, the Maldives and Sri Lanka, and planned to donate $4 million later Monday to help Red Cross disaster efforts, Powell said.
The initial U.S. aid package being crafted was expected to reach $15 million, officials said. Powell cautioned that was a "quick infusion" and that the administration was prepared to help with long-term rebuilding.
U.S. Agency for International Development groups were sent to Thailand and Indonesia to make assessments and the team in Indonesia will go on to Sri Lanka, the officials said.
The U.S. Navy said it sent three P-3 surveillance aircraft from Kadena air base on the Japanese island of Okinawa to Utaphao, Thailand, to conduct survey operations, including a possible role in search-and-rescue efforts.
The Navy said it had no reports of damage to any of its ships or bases in the region.
President Bush expressed his condolences over the "terrible loss of life and suffering," said the White House statement issued aboard Air Force One. Bush was traveling from Washington to Texas, where he was beginning a post-Christmas vacation at his Crawford ranch.
Tommy Ceez
12-27-04, 01:39 PM
You STAND READY TO HELP because its considered a unilateral invasion when you just fly your supply planes unscheduled into another country.
Sdallnct
12-27-04, 01:49 PM
It amazes me that even in this there will be politics. People here on this board are already pissed at the White House. We all know that without a doubt the US will send more people, spend more money and do more to help then all the rest of the world combined. Yet, some will still look as us badly. Amazing.
I've been working in Florida since August and thought it was bad there (and it is), but really pales in comparison to this...very sad....
Duran
12-27-04, 01:55 PM
You STAND READY TO HELP because its considered a unilateral invasion when you just fly your supply planes unscheduled into another country.
So France, Australia, and Greece are invading? Give me a break.
I'm not saying the U.S. wasn't going to help. My point was that the article I posted detailed actual aid being sent by other countries, but nothing from the U.S. And don't tell me Sri Lanka was asking Ireland and not the U.S. for help.
The biggest tragedy in years and the only response we had at that point is a White House statement saying we "stand ready". That's pathetic. If nothing else, we need to work on public relations. An official statement detailing our aid from our Secretary of State shouldn't have taken until 1 PM EST today.
Duran
12-27-04, 01:59 PM
It amazes me that even in this there will be politics. People here on this board are already pissed at the White House. We all know that without a doubt the US will send more people, spend more money and do more to help then all the rest of the world combined. Yet, some will still look as us badly. Amazing.
I've been working in Florida since August and thought it was bad there (and it is), but really pales in comparison to this...very sad....
I think you're reading things into people's opinions that aren't there. This has nothing to do with politics. But it is hard to increase your standing in the world when you're slow to let people know how you're helping. When Ireland, Germany, France, Australia, Japan, and a few others can point to tangible aid they're sending, and all we have is a statement from the White House saying we'll help, we don't look good on the world stage. I don't care who the President is.
And we may know "without a doubt", but the rest of the world doesn't.
Sdallnct
12-27-04, 02:05 PM
I think you're reading things into people's opinions that aren't there. This has nothing to do with politics. But it is hard to increase your standing in the world when you're slow to let people know how you're helping. When Ireland, Germany, France, Australia, Japan, and a few others can point to tangible aid they're sending, and all we have is a statement from the White House saying we'll help, we don't look good on the world stage. I don't care who the President is.
And we may know "without a doubt", but the rest of the world doesn't.
Fair enough. I will accept that perhaps I jumped the gun. This is part of an article from CNN. Seems like a pretty good start and a pretty good plan to me. In my job all I do is travel from one disaster to another in the US. Trust me when I say, it is not easy to just "go there right now and help". For example, I had to wait a couple of days before flying into Florida after Charlie. Us getting there to soon would take up supplies and resources that locals need (water, gas, food, etc). Not to mention roads being out, no electricity, etc. While planning ahead is very important, there is some evaluation that must be done before you just "go there now".
The initial U.S. aid package being crafted was expected to reach at least $15 million, said Ed Fox of the U.S. Agency for International Development. He called it an initial response until surveys are concluded and requests considered.
Also, Fox said, the United States was drawing on shelter, food, water cans and other supplies that were kept in reserve in the Philippines and in Dubai.
Powell cautioned that was a "quick infusion" and that the administration was prepared to help with long-term rebuilding.
He also said while several hundred Americans were unaccounted for it does not imply they were casualties. "It just means we haven't been able to reach out and get contact with them," he told reporters at the State Department.
Assessment groups were sent to Thailand and Indonesia, and a total of 21 teams will fan out through the region to help with sanitation, health and relief supplies, Fox said.
The U.S. Navy said it sent three P-3 surveillance aircraft from Kadena air base on the Japanese island of Okinawa to Utaphao, Thailand, to conduct survey operations, including a possible role in search-and-rescue efforts.
al_bundy
12-27-04, 02:07 PM
I think you're reading things into people's opinions that aren't there. This has nothing to do with politics. But it is hard to increase your standing in the world when you're slow to let people know how you're helping. When Ireland, Germany, France, Australia, Japan, and a few others can point to tangible aid they're sending, and all we have is a statement from the White House saying we'll help, we don't look good on the world stage. I don't care who the President is.
And we may know "without a doubt", but the rest of the world doesn't.
you should really think about what you are saying. say there are only one million people that need help. That means that any aid will need to send at least 1 million meals and more than 1 million gallons of water into the areas on a daily basis. Do you really think that the one or two planes is enough? It's more of a symbol.
You can talk all you want, but the reality is that you can't just send in aid. You have to find the supplies that are scattered around the world, you have to find the planes and reroute them and then find places to land them in the affected areas. And then once you do that you have to find a way to dirtibute the aid with the proper security. And then you have to keep flying the stuff in on a daily basis because people tend to consume food and water and then they need more. Things like this don't just happen, you need a team on the ground to asses the damage and then coordinate the aid to the right areas.
wabio
12-27-04, 02:08 PM
The total energy released by a magnitude 9.0 earthquake such as this one exceeds the total amount of energy consumed in the United States in one month, or the energy released by the wind of a hurricane like Hurricane Isabel over a period of 70 days. This amount of energy is equivalent to a mass of about 100 kg (220 lb), or enough to boil 5000 litres (1,300 US gallons) of water for every man, woman and child on the planet.
link?
How much energy does an atomic bomb have comparatively speaking?
Myster X
12-27-04, 02:14 PM
What about China? They don't have the capacity to bring supplies to the needed countries?
You don't suppose China provide aid by sending troops to other countries do you? I forsee a massive massive defections or assylum seekers.
Good gawd. That place is one step away from being a landfill. :eek:
I think out of all natural disasters (earthquakes, hurricanes, volcanoes, avalanches) that tidal waves cause the most casualties simply because of the water involved. If a person running through the streets is knocked unconscious by flying debris....that person is dead because he will drown. Or if a person is laying in bed and his house immediately fills up with water....he will most likely drown too. The only other natural disaster I can think of that would cause more death would be an asteroid hitting a metropolitan area.
Myster X
12-27-04, 02:17 PM
link?
How much energy does an atomic bomb have comparatively speaking?
The Hiroshima bomb, at 12.5 kilotons, killed 140,000 people.
Today’s Trident II (D-5) missile warhead has 475 kilotons. This is equal to 38 Hiroshima bombs (12.5 times 38 = 475).
There are eight 475 kiloton warheads on each D-5 missile, about 3,800 kilotons.
With 3,800 kilotons, each missile carries the equivalent of 304 Hiroshima bombs.
The D-5’s 304 Hiroshimas (times 140,000) means a single D-5 Trident missile with eight warheads can potentially kill 42,560,000 people.
Each sub can carry 24 missiles so a single Trident submarine, with 24 D-5 missiles (192 warheads) is equal to 7,296 Hiroshimas or the death of 1,021,440,000 (one billion) people.
The United States has 14 Trident submarines which today threaten more than 14,300,160,000 (14 billion) people -- 2 1/3 times the earth’s population.
Duran
12-27-04, 02:21 PM
you should really think about what you are saying. say there are only one million people that need help. That means that any aid will need to send at least 1 million meals and more than 1 million gallons of water into the areas on a daily basis. Do you really think that the one or two planes is enough? It's more of a symbol.
You can talk all you want, but the reality is that you can't just send in aid. You have to find the supplies that are scattered around the world, you have to find the planes and reroute them and then find places to land them in the affected areas. And then once you do that you have to find a way to dirtibute the aid with the proper security. And then you have to keep flying the stuff in on a daily basis because people tend to consume food and water and then they need more. Things like this don't just happen, you need a team on the ground to asses the damage and then coordinate the aid to the right areas.
I know exactly what I'm saying. I never implied that we should just be sending people, planes, or whatever over this instant just to be first. We should, however, been able to point to what aid we will have available to them, not that we "stand ready." That doesn't mean shit. The information that's come out in later articles sounds great. It points to a clear plan for tangible action.
I know exactly what I'm saying. I never implied that we should just be sending people, planes, or whatever over this instant just to be first. We should, however, been able to point to what aid we will have available to them, not that we "stand ready." That doesn't mean shit. The information that's come out in later articles sounds great. It points to a clear plan for tangible action.
i don't think anyone knows who is going to send what. In these cases where many nations and organizations are going to be involved it makes sense to wait in order to work out the details of who is sending what. France is sending doctors, but someone has to send in the drugs and medical supplies. Makes no sense to just announce we are sending crap when another country may already have the resources on the way.
Duran
12-27-04, 02:36 PM
i don't think anyone knows who is going to send what. In these cases where many nations and organizations are going to be involved it makes sense to wait in order to work out the details of who is sending what. France is sending doctors, but someone has to send in the drugs and medical supplies. Makes no sense to just announce we are sending crap when another country may already have the resources on the way.
No, but at the very least we could talk about how we're consolidating supplies we have in the Phillipines or gathering water supplies for deployment when needed. We didn't say anything until this afternoon.
al_bundy
12-27-04, 02:38 PM
so just because you didn't see it in the news you assume nothing is happening?
MrKen
12-27-04, 03:09 PM
No, I think he is saying that we should be making an overt effort to show our peaceful, humanitarian side. Go out of our way to give specific actions, step up as a potential leader in the recovery effort (although we may be shot down because of mistrust etc.), and generally make a big deal out of what we are willing/going to do to help.
I'd hate to think that we would look at this as ONLY a P.R. situation, but nonetheless, it is a P.R. situation, and lately, we could use some good P.R.
mosquitobite
12-27-04, 03:11 PM
I agree with Al. Not to mention, wouldn't the President have to speak to Congress, etc??
Also if the President had jumped up this morning and said "we'll send $5 million" when we could have sent more people would be upset that we were "only" sending 5 million. I think it's smart to weigh more information before coming out with a bunch of crap that they might not need.
Heck, I asked my HR department if we can do something here to collect stuff like tents, tarps, and blankets and the lady replied "We have to wait til next week when my boss gets back." :rolleyes:
al_bundy
12-27-04, 03:23 PM
the government budgets money every year for humanitarian assistance
the big issue is getting host country permission to come in. you can't send in your people to wander around some country without permission unless you go to war. I still have my government passport as a memento from my army days. It was only used for official travel, and in my unit it was a requirement to keep it from expiring.
Uh, what is up with that little "message" at the top? :lol: -eek-
Sdallnct
12-27-04, 03:28 PM
No, but at the very least we could talk about how we're consolidating supplies we have in the Phillipines or gathering water supplies for deployment when needed. We didn't say anything until this afternoon.
So if I understand you, then it is political? You are saying that regardless of the fact we are doing the right thing at the right time we have not been "shouting it from the mountain tops" and broadcast it to the world to know how great and wonderful we are?
To me the ulitmate in helping is just to help and not use it as a tool to win friends. I really don't care if France "thinks" we sent enough help or not. We did and will. I really don't care if the Middle East thinks we did not do enough, we did more then them 10X over.
See IMHO, it makes no difference what we do. Many in the world will think we are bad and/or we could have done more. It won't make any difference if their very own country did nothing to help (or sent in two small planes). Due to our wealth others will always think we did not do enough. And that is fine with me. We need to go help and do it to help those in need. Not to impress anyone.
Duran
12-27-04, 03:29 PM
No, I think he is saying that we should be making an overt effort to show our peaceful, humanitarian side. Go out of our way to give specific actions, step up as a potential leader in the recovery effort (although we may be shot down because of mistrust etc.), and generally make a big deal out of what we are willing/going to do to help.
I'd hate to think that we would look at this as ONLY a P.R. situation, but nonetheless, it is a P.R. situation, and lately, we could use some good P.R.
Thank you!
Duran
12-27-04, 03:32 PM
So if I understand you, then it is political? You are saying that regardless of the fact we are doing the right thing at the right time we have not been "shouting it from the mountain tops" and broadcast it to the world to know how great and wonderful we are?
To me the ulitmate in helping is just to help and not use it as a tool to win friends. I really don't care if France "thinks" we sent enough help or not. We did and will. I really don't care if the Middle East thinks we did not do enough, we did more then them 10X over.
See IMHO, it makes no difference what we do. Many in the world will think we are bad and/or we could have done more. It won't make any difference if their very own country did nothing to help (or sent in two small planes). Due to our wealth others will always think we did not do enough. And that is fine with me. We need to go help and do it to help those in need. Not to impress anyone.
Some people don't like us, so we should just ignore what everyone thinks of us? I look at this less as tooting our own horn and more as living up to our repsonsibility as the world's best and most successful countriy to help others in times of crisis. If we do say something, those that hate us will continue to do so. If we don't say anything, the ranks of those that hate us will continue to increase.
kvrdave
12-27-04, 03:41 PM
I wonder what happened to all the boats and ships out in the ocean at that time. The Indian Ocean is vast and there must have been thousands of boats out there. What would happen if they were hit by a sudden 20-foot, 500 mph wave?
If they were just a couple of miles out they probably didn't feel anything, or at the very most, just a swell. Tsunamis don't start as a wave out in the ocean, they travel until the depth reaches a certain level (depending on the size of the wave) and then turn into a wave. The ocean was actually the safest place to be, provided you were not on top of the earthquake or too close to land.
kvrdave
12-27-04, 03:42 PM
And crap, can't we leave out the US bashing for once? I swear that there is no amount that we could do that would please some people. Either we don't act fast enough, or we react too quickly without knowing enough, etc. etc. Give it a break, guys.
RevLiver
12-27-04, 03:43 PM
If they were just a couple of miles out they probably didn't feel anything, or at the very most, just a swell. Tsunamis don't start as a wave out in the ocean, they travel until the depth reaches a certain level (depending on the size of the wave) and then turn into a wave. The ocean was actually the safest place to be, provided you were not on top of the earthquake or too close to land.
Actually, the deeper the water, the safer they would have been. The wave reaches its height as the water gets shallow near land. The boats nearest land would be thrown ashore or otherwise displaced. Boats out in the middle of the ocean would probably only notice a swell.
Tommy Ceez
12-27-04, 03:50 PM
THE US HAS DONE A GREAT JOB WITH THE HUMANATARIAN AID, AND WILL HELP MILLIONS, BUT WE DIDNT SPIN IT WELL ENOUGH AND GET THE PR MACHINE ROLLING.
Duran has officially endorced P. Diddy for president in '08
kvrdave
12-27-04, 03:52 PM
Actually, the deeper the water, the safer they would have been. The wave reaches its height as the water gets shallow near land. The boats nearest land would be thrown ashore or otherwise displaced. Boats out in the middle of the ocean would probably only notice a swell.
Isn't that what I said? -confused-
I may be wrong about being over the epicenter, but I just don't know anything about that. Seems like a bad place to be because of the gases that would rise, and affect the boyancy of a boat.
General Zod
12-27-04, 04:35 PM
And crap, can't we leave out the US bashing for once? I swear that there is no amount that we could do that would please some people. Either we don't act fast enough, or we react too quickly without knowing enough, etc. etc. Give it a break, guys.
Sure gets old. I'm sure Bush will soon get blamed for the whole thing... that's coming next.
Myster X
12-27-04, 04:41 PM
Sure gets old. I'm sure Bush will soon get blamed for the whole thing... that's coming next.
Bush backed out of the Kyoto Protocol. :(
Sdallnct
12-27-04, 04:46 PM
Bush backed out of the Kyoto Protocol. :(
Oh, yea. You were right. And here I was thinking it was a result of NAFTA
Giantrobo
12-27-04, 04:48 PM
No, but at the very least we could talk about how we're consolidating supplies we have in the Phillipines or gathering water supplies for deployment when needed. We didn't say anything until this afternoon.
Fuck it. As long as we get so more OUTSOURCING contracts from the countries affected..... :rolleyes:
Sdallnct
12-27-04, 04:56 PM
Some people don't like us, so we should just ignore what everyone thinks of us? I look at this less as tooting our own horn and more as living up to our repsonsibility as the world's best and most successful countriy to help others in times of crisis. If we do say something, those that hate us will continue to do so. If we don't say anything, the ranks of those that hate us will continue to increase.
Well I think it is a debate for another thread if we have the "responsibility" to help those in need. I think we should help those in need, but if it is a responsibility is questionable. However, I do agree we should help. And as I have said we will help more then all the other countries in the world combined.
Where we differ is who we tell we are helping. You seem to be questioning how we have "broadcast" what we are doing. Well it seems to make more sense to use all resources to evaluate the need and get things rolling. This is not the time for "press releases", PR or trying to create headlines. There will be time for that. And I have no doubt that months and even years from now Bush, Congress or others will spout out how much we helped, the millions of $$ in aid we send, the supplies, transportation, etc, etc. But right now all efforts should go toward helping.
And personally, I think we will win more friends in the end by making friends of those we help. I don't think you make a lot of friends in the headlines. But if we help Asia and Africa in their time of need, hopefully they will not forget. But we also should not help in the hopes of getting something in return. We should simply help, let them say "thank you" and move on.
ChiTownAbs, Inc
12-27-04, 06:25 PM
Looks like the death toll is holding 'steady' at 23,000.
Each one is about 8MB in size. The first one, you will need Quicktime to play it. The 3rd one is probably the best at detailing how the wave moves across the open ocean rather uneventfully, and then rises as it hit the coastal shelf as kvrdave so accurately explained. ;):up: Amazing stuff.
Tremendous loss of life. :down::( Hopefully, they will initiate a coastal warning system after this in the Indian Ocean like they have in Japan and the Alaskan region.
X
12-27-04, 09:23 PM
Tremendous loss of life. :down::( Hopefully, they will initiate a coastal warning system after this in the Indian Ocean like they have in Japan and the Alaskan region.I'm not sure it would be considered cost-effective by the affected countries due to the infrequency of this type of event.
Even the U.S. only has a couple of states (Alaska, Hawaii, Washington) that even have sirens, and that's only because of previous occurrences with a good likelihood of repeating.
VinVega
12-27-04, 09:31 PM
I'm not sure it would be considered cost-effective by the affected countries due to the infrequency of this type of event.
Even the U.S. only has a couple of states (Alaska, Hawaii, Washington) that even have sirens, and that's only because of previous occurrences with a good likelihood of repeating.
Well, the area across the Indian Ocean from India is one of the most seismically active areas in the world. I'm sure some thought will go into a system, given the tens of thousands of people who lost their lives, or at least for the tourist factor. Who's going to want to vacation there now?
X
12-27-04, 09:35 PM
Well, the area across the Indian Ocean from India is one of the most seismically active areas in the world.Yet these tsunamis are very infrequent.
Demontooth
12-27-04, 10:46 PM
I'm not sure it would be considered cost-effective by the affected countries due to the infrequency of this type of event.
Even the U.S. only has a couple of states (Alaska, Hawaii, Washington) that even have sirens, and that's only because of previous occurrences with a good likelihood of repeating.
Tsunami alert centre unable to help
From correspondents in Los Angeles
28dec04
AN alert centre in Hawaii that warns Pacific countries about approaching tsunamis detected the earthquake that generated killer waves across Asia, but had no way of raising the alarm.
The absence of an alert system in Asia meant the information could not be sent out fast enough to save any of the more than 23,000 lives that were lost in the catastrophe.
“We did what we could to warn Asian nations of the likelihood of a tsunami,” said Charles McCreery of the Pacific Tsunami Warning Centre in Honolulu, adding that the centre did not have direct contacts with Indian Ocean nations.
The centre, set up by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration in 1949 after a huge wave killed 159 people in Hawaii, tried desperately to warn Asian nations through US embassies in their capitals.
“From our instruments we can detect any large earthquake in the Pacific, usually within two to three minutes of the occurrence of the earthquake, and warn any country that is threatened,” he said.
The centre issued a bulletin at 0114 GMT when it detected the temblor off the coast of Indonesia, but with no early warning system in place in Asia, scientists had no choice but to begin working their phones.
“We knew that the whole coast of Sumatra was capable of large, damaging earthquakes and large tsunamis,” said US Geological Survey geophysicist Ken Hudnut.
“There was sufficient time between the time of the quake and the time of the tsunamis hitting some of the affected areas to have saved many lives, if a proper warning system had been in place,” he told AFP.
The NOAA's information bulletin said there was a possibility of a tsunami near the earthquake's epicentre, but that no destructive threat existed in the Pacific.
But huge tidal waves swept across the Indian Ocean killing at least 23,000 people in nine countries from Indonesia to Somalia.
The tsunami is believed to be the first in the Indian Ocean since 1883, possibly explaining why coastal inhabitants of the region were so unprepared for the disaster.
“Because they are such a rare occurrence, perhaps the tradition of warning about the hazards of tsunamis is no longer handed down from generation to generation,” Hudnut said.
Records dating back to 1509 show that Indian Ocean tsunamis have never hit more than one place at one time, Eddie Bernard , director of the Pacific Marine Environmental Laboratory in Seattle, Washington, told The Wall Street Journal.
“There do not seem to be any tsunamis that were Indian Ocean-wide,” Bernard said.
There are almost no tsunami alert systems for the Indian Ocean to give populations sufficient time to flee the deadly waves, the NOAA said.
The International Tsunami Information Centre was created in 1965 as part of UNESCO, the UN science and education agency, to better prepare Pacific countries against the giant waves.
The United States has a second tsunami-warning centre in Alaska that was established in 1967, following a 1964 earthquake that unleashed a tsunami responsible for 122 deaths.
The US tsunami centres get information from the National Data Buoy Centre, whose network of buoys measure the size of waves.
US earthquake experts say that in an age of booming international travel and tourism, people all over the world should be aware of what to do in the case of a major earthquake that could spawn a tsunami.
“People who spend any time at all -- even vacations -- in coastal communities should know that when there is a major quake they should make their way to high ground as quickly as possible because a tsunami could soon follow,” Hudnut said.
“Being prepared for such calamities is part of being a savvy traveller,” he said.
VinVega
12-27-04, 11:28 PM
Yet these tsunamis are very infrequent.
It's not infrequency that will determine the development of a bouy system, it's the politics. Close the barn door after the horses have left, which is the typical human response to disasters such as these. Given the fact that 20,000+ have lost their lives, I think that the leaders in these countries will invest in a Tsunami detection system or at least training for the first responders to show that they're doing something towards the future.
Looking at it strictly from an odds perspective, there's not much need for it, but when you look at the lives lost, there will be calls for something going forward.
DVD Polizei
12-28-04, 01:51 AM
But something like this only happens once every hundred years or so. :)
Numanoid
12-28-04, 02:00 AM
How exactly does a tsunami warning system work? Is it like a tornado siren? How will people recognize it without constant drills (especially in tourist areas)? How much advance notice will there be? What are they supposed to do when they hear it?
seasmoke
12-28-04, 02:05 AM
think some places might have sirens, and then there would be a emegency warning over the air waves on the radio and tv I think....
Myster X
12-28-04, 02:07 AM
Just heard this on the local news.
The energy released by the quake = 1 million atomic bombs
Ranger
12-28-04, 02:08 AM
The news were saying that the wave was moving at 500 mph. -eek-
DVD Polizei
12-28-04, 02:48 AM
In this case, and in this case only, I would NOT have chosen the lump sum.
Canadian Bacon
12-28-04, 02:51 AM
In this case, and in this case only, I would NOT have chosen the lump sum.
-ohbfrank- :lol:
such a bad situation there, I'm sure
let's hoep the death toll doesn't rise but I'm sure it will :(
wabio
12-28-04, 02:55 AM
Just heard this on the local news.
The energy released by the quake = 1 million atomic bombs
I don't know about that. I think 1 millions atomic bombs would be enough to vaporize a country the size of India and send it to the bottom of the Indian Ocean.
eau
12-28-04, 04:48 AM
I don't know about that. I think 1 millions atomic bombs would be enough to vaporize a country the size of India and send it to the bottom of the Indian Ocean.
1 million atomic bombs detonated on the ocean floor 6.2 miles below would have a totally different effect than a surface detonation though.
Quake likely jolted Earth's rotation
Quake's power = million atomic bombs?
Yeah, I was guessing maybe 40K tops, but it's rising just about every 4 hours. :(
It must be just utter chaos in Sri Lanka and the surrounding countries and I really feel for them. They didn't have any amount of time to prepare for the oncoming horror, and I really don't think an alert system would have helped.
The missing numbers are just so high, this may go to 60,000 now. I remember I was something online at a Sri Lanka news website, and they had reported 8,000 missing. That was as of in the morning yesterday. Just in Sri Lanka (one report said 11,500 just in Sri Lanka by the end of the day). You figure how many are missing in all areas, and the numbers are up to probably 60,000 dead, maybe even 80,000 by the time it's all over with.
An interesting breakdown by a Muslim website of Sri Lanka, who report about 13,,000 dead:
Total - 4,368 / 13,000 = 34% Muslim. While most of Sri Lanka is Buddhist, there is a disproportionate amount of Muslims dead, which is what I was trying to get across to another poster, but I didn't get it across well enough. Anyway, I'm hoping we see a lot of financial support and proper representation.
Total - ~128,200 (I believe these are the Muslim areas being quoted here--certainly much much higher for the rest of the country/island).
Another reason why I mention this, is because the dead are supposed to be buried immediately. This presents a severe disease potential in the areas listed above, as I do not think there are proper burial supplies to handle all of the bodies.
ChiTownAbs, Inc
12-28-04, 10:07 AM
oh. my. god.
cpgator
12-28-04, 10:32 AM
AP is reporting the figure at 44,000.
BANDA ACEH, Indonesia — Mourners in Sri Lanka used their bare hands to dig graves Tuesday while hungry islanders in Indonesia turned to looting in the aftermath of Asia's devastating tsunamis. Thousands more bodies were found in Indonesia, dramatically increasing the death toll across 11 nations to around 44,000.
Emergency workers who reached Aceh province at the northern tip of Indonesia's Sumatra island found that 10,000 people had been killed in a single town, Meulaboh, said Purnomo Sidik, national disaster director at the Social Affairs Ministry.
Another 9,000 were confirmed dead so far in the provincial capital, Banda Aceh, and surrounding towns, he said. Soldiers and volunteers combed seaside districts and dug into rubble of destroyed houses to seek survivors and retrieve the dead amid unconfirmed reports that other towns along Aceh's west coast had been demolished.
With aid not arriving quick enough, desperate residents in Meulaboh and other towns in Aceh — a region that was unique in that it was struck both by Sunday's massive quake and the killer waves that followed — were turning to looting.
"It is every person for themselves here," district official Tengku Zulkarnain told el-Shinta radio station from the area.
"People are looting, but not because they are evil, but they are hungry," said Red Cross official Irman Rachmat in Banda Aceh.
In Sri Lanka, the toll also mounted significantly. Around 1,000 people were dead or missing and feared dead from a train that was flung off its tracks when the gigantic waves hit. Rescuers pulled 204 bodies from the train's eight carriages — reduced to twisted metal — and cremated or buried them Tuesday next to the railroad track that runs along the coastline.
More than 18,700 people died in Sri Lanka, more than 4,000 in India and more than 1,500 in Thailand, with numbers expected to rise. The Indonesian vice president's estimate that his country's coastlines held up to 25,000 victims would bring the potential toll up to 50,000.
Europeans desperately sought relatives missing from holidays in Southeast Asia — particularly Thailand, where bodies littered the once crowded beach resorts. Near the devastated Similan Beach and Spa Resort, where mostly German tourists were staying, a naked corpse hung suspended from a tree Tuesday as if crucified.
A blond two-year-old Swedish boy, Hannes Bergstroem, found sitting alone on a road in Thailand and taken to a hospital was reunited with his uncle, who saw the boy's picture on the hospital's Web site.
"This is a miracle, the biggest thing that could happen," said the uncle, who identified himself as Jim.
So far, more than 80 Westerners have been confirmed dead across the region — including 11 Americans. But a British consulate official in Thailand warned that hundreds more foreign tourists were likely killed in the country's resorts.
In Sri Lanka, more than 300 people crammed into the Infant Jesus Church at Orrs Hill, located on high ground from their ravaged fishing villages. Families and childres slept on pews and the cement floor.
"We had never seen the sea looking like that. It was like as if a calm sea had suddenly become a raging monster," said one woman, Haalima, recalling the giant wave that swept away her 5-year-old grandson, Adil.
Adil was making sandcastles with his younger sister, Reeze, while Haalima sat in her home Sunday morning. Haalima said the girl ran to her complaining that waves had crushed their castles, then came screams and water entered the home. "When we looked, there was no shore anymore and no Adil," she said.
In Sri Lanka's severely hit town of Galle, officials mounted a loudspeaker on a fire engine to advise residents to lay bodies of the dead on roads for collection and burial. Elsewhere in Sri Lanka, residents took on burial efforts with forks or even bare hands to scrape a final resting place for victims.
The tidal waves and flooding uprooted land mines in war-torn Sri Lanka, threatening to kill or maim aid workers and survivors who are attempting to return to what's left of their homes.
Amid the devastation, however, were some miraculous stories of survival.
In Malaysia, a 20-day-old baby was found alive on a floating mattress. She and her family were later reunited. A Hong Kong couple vacationing in Thailand clung to a mattress for six hours.
The disaster could be history's costliest, with "many billions of dollars" of damage, said U.N. Undersecretary Jan Egeland, who is in charge of emergency relief coordination.
Hundreds of thousands have lost everything, and millions face a hazardous future because of polluted drinking water, a lack of sanitation and no health services, he said.
Scores of people were also killed in Malaysia, Myanmar, Bangladesh, the Maldives. The tidal waves traveled as far as Somalia, where hundreds were reported dead, and Seychelles, where three were killed.
Children have emerged as the biggest victims of Sunday's quake-born tidal waves. The U.N. organization estimates at least one-third of the tens of thousands who died were children, said UNICEF spokesman Alfred Ironside in New York.
Officials in Thailand and Indonesia conceded that immediate public warnings of gigantic waves could have saved lives. The only known warning issued by Thai authorities reached resort operators when it was too late. The waves hit Sri Lanka and India more than two hours after the quake.
But governments insisted they couldn't have known the true danger because there is no international system in place to track tsunamis in the Indian Ocean, and they could not afford the sophisticated equipment to build one.
For most people around the shores across the region, the only warning Sunday of the disaster came when shallow coastal waters disappeared, sucked away by the approaching tsunami, before returning as a massive wall of water. The waves wiped out villages, lifted cars and boats, yanked children from the arms of parents and swept away beachgoers, scuba divers and fishermen.
The United States dispatched disaster teams and prepared a $15 million aid package to the Asian countries, and the 25-nation European Union promised to deliver $4 million. Japan, Portugal, China and Russia were sending teams of experts.
Egeland said he expected hundreds of relief airplanes from two dozen countries within the next 48 hours.
Sdallnct
12-28-04, 12:11 PM
Simply unbelievable. Even tho I work disasters for a living here in the US, I'm not sure I can even imagine this.
While probably to early for this, I keep reading where these areas cannot afford a warning syster. But I also read where parts of the US knew about the quake and possibility of this happening (tho I'm sure could not imagine this damage). Wonder if there is any way to let these countries "lease" our system. Or simply set up some sort of a "hot line" so that these countries would only have to build a local warning system like air raid sirens or here in Texas we have Tornado sirens. I mean is looks like some of these areas were hit two even three hours after the quake. You would think that kind of time would have save a vast majority of these people.
devilshalo
12-28-04, 12:25 PM
But I also read where parts of the US knew about the quake and possibility of this happening (tho I'm sure could not imagine this damage). Wonder if there is any way to let these countries "lease" our system. Or simply set up some sort of a "hot line" so that these countries would only have to build a local warning system like air raid sirens or here in Texas we have Tornado sirens. I mean is looks like some of these areas were hit two even three hours after the quake. You would think that kind of time would have save a vast majority of these people.
Scientists in USA saw tsunami coming
Tue Dec 28, 7:11 AM ET Top Stories - USATODAY.com
By Dan Vergano, USA TODAY
Minutes after a massive earthquake rocked the Indian Ocean on Sunday, international ocean monitors knew that a tsunami would likely follow. But they didn't know whom to tell.
"We put out a bulletin within 20 minutes, technically as fast as we could do it," says Jeff LaDouce of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. LaDouce says e-mails were dispatched to Indonesian officials, but he doesn't know what happened to the information.
The problem is that Sunday's earthquake struck the unmonitored Indian Ocean. An international system of buoys and monitoring stations - the Pacific Tsunami Warning Center based in Hawaii - spans the Pacific, alerting nations there to any oncoming disasters. But no such system guards the Indian Ocean.
(There isn't one in the Atlantic Ocean because there are comparatively few earthquakes there. LaDouce says efforts are being made in the Caribbean to set up a warning system after last year's tsunami caused by the volcanic collapse on the island of Montserrat.)
"Sumatra has an ample history of great earthquakes, which makes the lack of a tsunami warning system in the Indian Ocean all the more tragic," says geologist Brian Atwater of the U.S. Geological Survey (news - web sites). "Everyone knew Sumatra was a loaded gun."
On Monday, Asian government officials, notably in India, discussed plans to coordinate efforts to develop an Indian Ocean system. "It's a people problem, not a technology problem," says geophysicist Teng-fong Wong of the State University of New York-Stony Brook. "Governments just have to cooperate."
In fact, the detector buoys that monitor tsunami surges have been available for decades. They record water heights and send measurements throughout the Pacific network. False alarms are a concern, slowing the speed with which bulletins can be released. A 1986 false alarm in Hawaii cost more than $30 million in evacuation costs.
LaDouce notes that warnings are of little use without evacuation plans, given how quickly a tsunami can travel. Tsunami waves struck Sumatra minutes after the quake and hit Thailand within an hour.
"Even if you give the tourist resorts in Thailand a half-hour's notice, it is no easy matter to evacuate vast swaths of coastland," he says. "You have to plan and train people. And then do it all over again."
spfanatic
12-28-04, 12:31 PM
Here's a couple of videos that i found:
Video 1 (http://www.downloaddungeon.com/mods/brevity/tsunami/tsunamiphuket.wmv)
Video 2 (http://politiken.dk/media/wvx/3537.WVX)
Amazing.
(credit goes to brevity @ LWS)
mllefoo
12-28-04, 12:33 PM
We don't get tsunamis in California. At least none that I've ever heard about. Yet there is still education that states if there is a major earthquake off the coast or near the coast, that you should get to higher ground immediately.
Perhaps these folks in Indonesia don't need an early warning system, but they should be taught to get to higher ground during a major quake.
Just a thought.
Mopower
12-28-04, 12:42 PM
We don't get tsunamis in California. At least none that I've ever heard about. Yet there is still education that states if there is a major earthquake off the coast or near the coast, that you should get to higher ground immediately.
Perhaps these folks in Indonesia don't need an early warning system, but they should be taught to get to higher ground during a major quake.
Just a thought.
Well I doubt people in Sri Lanka felt an earthquake a that occured on the other side of the Indian Ocean from where they are. Just a thought.
woofman
12-28-04, 12:42 PM
Here's a couple of videos that i found:
Video 1 (http://www.downloaddungeon.com/mods/brevity/tsunami/tsunamiphuket.wmv)
Video 2 (http://politiken.dk/media/wvx/3537.WVX)
Amazing.
(credit goes to brevity @ LWS)
:eek: :jawdrop: That is crazy.
mllefoo
12-28-04, 12:53 PM
Are you kidding? People in australia reported feeling that quake.
DodgingCars
12-28-04, 12:57 PM
We don't get tsunamis in California. At least none that I've ever heard about. Yet there is still education that states if there is a major earthquake off the coast or near the coast, that you should get to higher ground immediately.
Perhaps these folks in Indonesia don't need an early warning system, but they should be taught to get to higher ground during a major quake.
Just a thought.
California was hit by a tsunami from the Alaska quake in the 60s. It killed a few hundred people, I believe.
Mopower
12-28-04, 12:58 PM
Are you kidding? People in australia reported feeling that quake.
That might be but I'm sure it didn't feel like a 9.0 did it? Every time someone in California feels an earthquake do they head for the mountains?
DodgingCars
12-28-04, 01:01 PM
The Great Alaskan Earthquake of 28 March 1964 generated a great tsunami which was extremely damaging, not only in Alaska, but along Vancouver Island and Northern California. The tsunami waves affected the entire California coastline but were particularly high from Crescent City to Monterey with heights ranging from 2.1 - 6.3 meters (7-21 feet). Eleven persons lost their lives in Crescent City and tsunami damage was estimated at $7,414,000(1964 dollars). The estimated losses elsewhere along California were between $1,500,000 and $2,375,000 (1964 dollars). Extensive damage occurred also in the Los Angeles and Long Beach Harbors.
------------------------
Ok.. maybe only 11 people died.
Giantrobo
12-28-04, 01:26 PM
DC, is that the same one where someone caught a bay draining on film when the earth underneath it cracked? I know it was in Alaska and it was an old film. Anyway, the film show the water rushing out of the bay like a bathtub due to large cracks that formed under the water.
Tommy Ceez
12-28-04, 01:31 PM
I believe that the water from the bay was forced onshore and momentarially, a camera cought the exposed bottom of the bay
Giantrobo
12-28-04, 01:34 PM
I believe that the water from the bay was forced onshore and momentarially, a camera cought the exposed bottom of the bay
Ok, but I know I saw this video years ago. The images are stuck in my head.
kuroiinu
12-28-04, 01:42 PM
If they were just a couple of miles out they probably didn't feel anything, or at the very most, just a swell. Tsunamis don't start as a wave out in the ocean, they travel until the depth reaches a certain level (depending on the size of the wave) and then turn into a wave. The ocean was actually the safest place to be, provided you were not on top of the earthquake or too close to land.
Thanks kvrdave. You sure know a lot.
I now wonder what would happen to a submarine out in the ocean? :D Would it get carried away at 500 mph?
FiveO
12-28-04, 01:44 PM
Here's a couple of videos that i found:
Video 1 (http://www.downloaddungeon.com/mods/brevity/tsunami/tsunamiphuket.wmv)
The Bush administration yesterday pledged $15 million to Asian nations hit by a tsunami that has killed more than 22,500 people, although the United Nations' humanitarian-aid chief called the donation "stingy."
"The United States, at the president's direction, will be a leading partner in one of the most significant relief, rescue and recovery challenges that the world has ever known," said White House deputy press secretary Trent Duffy.
But U.N. Undersecretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs Jan Egeland suggested that the United States and other Western nations were being "stingy" with relief funds, saying there would be more available if taxes were raised.
It is beyond me why are we so stingy, really," the Norwegian-born U.N. official told reporters. "Christmastime should remind many Western countries at least, [of] how rich we have become."
"There are several donors who are less generous than before in a growing world economy," he said, adding that politicians in the United States and Europe "believe that they are really burdening the taxpayers too much, and the taxpayers want to give less. It's not true. They want to give more."
In response to Mr. Egeland's comments, Mr. Duffy pointed out that the United States is "the largest contributor to international relief and aid efforts, not only through the government, but through charitable organizations. The American people are very giving."
Offers of aid have poured in from around the world in the past two days, with the European Union's executive arm releasing $4 million in emergency aid and pledging an additional $27 million. Canada and several European nations — including Spain, Germany, Ireland and Belgium — each pledged about $1 million yesterday.
Secretary of State Colin L. Powell hinted that the $15 million U.S. offer was only the first installment of a larger aid package to those countries devastated by 30-foot waves triggered by a massive underwater earthquake.
"We also have to see this not just as a one-time thing," he said. "Some 20-plus thousand lives have been lost in a few moments, but the lingering effects will be there for years.
"The damage that was caused, the rebuilding of schools and other facilities will take time," he added. "So you need a quick infusion to stabilize the situation, take care of those who have been injured, get immediate relief supplies in, and then you begin planning for the longer haul."
If that planning calls for significant food aid, the United States might have to scramble.
"Even before the crisis in the Asia-Pacific region and the Indian Ocean, the demands for food aid were stretching capacity: demands in Sudan, demands in West Africa, demands in other areas hit by drought and fighting," State Department spokesman Adam Ereli said.
"So even though we're giving a lot, the demand is very high," he added. "We're going to have to look at, as we move forward, what we can do to meet that demand."
Money and food are not the only types of aid being sent by the Bush administration. The U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) also is sending a 21-member disaster-relief team to the region.
Also, the Pentagon has dispatched military patrol planes from the Pacific Fleet. President Bush has written letters of condolence to seven of the affected nations — Bangladesh, Thailand, Sri Lanka, Indonesia, India, the Maldives and Malaysia.
Besides the United States, the largest single national donor was neighboring Australia, which offered $10 million and transportation aid.
"Australia will and should give more," Prime Minister John Howard said.
The International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies made an initial appeal of $6.7 million, which the federation says it will probably increase.
Officials from relief agencies, including the Red Cross and other nongovernmental organizations, met yesterday in Geneva to coordinate their efforts. In New York, diplomats from six of the affected nations met with U.N. officials.
The United Nations and other aid organizations have deployed hundreds of disaster-recovery and humanitarian-response teams to the region, and officials warn that the cost of the disaster could quickly reach "many billions of dollars."
"We may only know the full effect of this emergency weeks from now," Mr. Egeland told reporters yesterday at the United Nations in New York. "The disaster affecting Southeast Asia is not the biggest in recorded history, but the effects could be the biggest because more people live in exposed areas than ever before."
The tsunami-ravaged nations are particularly susceptible to epidemics as authorities struggle with thousands of corpses in unsanitary conditions. International organizations and nations including France, Japan, Israel, Kuwait, Hungary and others are sending medical personnel to some or all of the affected countries.
"The principal danger is that of diseases transmitted through water, especially malaria and diarrhea, and infections caught through respiration," said Hakan Sandbladh, a Red Cross official in Geneva.
Groups such as Doctors Without Borders warned that catastrophes tend to help localized illnesses turn into full-blown epidemics.
The destruction of water and sewage pipes, the disruption of vaccination programs and the lack of attention to disease-carrying pests such as rats and mosquitoes exacerbated the risk, they said.
In this situation, the stagnant pools of water created by the tsunami could boost the numbers of mosquitoes and other insects that transmit tropical maladies such as malaria and dengue fever.
"The risk of epidemics is also linked to concentrations of people whose houses have been destroyed," said Pauline Horrill of Doctors Without Borders.
Meanwhile, Agence France-Presse reported that a tsunami alert system in Hawaii that warns Pacific countries about devastating tidal waves detected the earthquake that led to the destruction across Indian Ocean nations.
But the absence of an alert system in Asia meant the information could not be sent out fast enough.
The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's (NOAA) Pacific Tsunami Warning Center, established in 1949 after a huge wave killed more than 150 people in Hawaii, issued a bulletin at 3:14 p.m. local time or 8:14 a.m. in the affected area, when it detected an earthquake off Indonesia.
The NOAA's information bulletin said there was a possibility of a tsunami near the earthquake's epicenter, but that no destructive threat existed in the Pacific. The huge tidal waves instead swept across the Indian Ocean, killing people in 10 countries from Indonesia to Somalia.
Duran
12-28-04, 02:16 PM
Jan Egeland can kiss my ass.
twikoff
12-28-04, 02:18 PM
Jan Egeland can kiss my ass.
...
eau
12-28-04, 02:38 PM
UNITED NATIONS (CNN) -- The United Nations' emergency relief coordinator said Tuesday that the international response to the tsunami catastrophe in southern Asia has been "very generous" despite earlier comments in which he called some nations "stingy."
"The international assistance that has come and been pledged from the United States, from Europe and from countries in the region has also been very generous," Jan Egeland said in brief remarks at the world body's headquarters.
"I have been misinterpreted when I yesterday said that my belief that rich countries in general can be more generous. This has nothing to do with any particular country or the response to this emergency. We're in early days and the response has so far been overwhelmingly positive," he added.
-rolleyes-
zuffy
12-28-04, 02:52 PM
Egeland is a fucking moron. I wonder if he himself donated any money to the Red Cross and/or other aid foundations.
Mutley Hyde
12-28-04, 02:58 PM
Just posted by the AP...
Agencies Planning Aid to Earthquake and Tidal Wave Victims in Asia (http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGBNLIPFA3E.html)
The following aid agencies are accepting contributions for assistance that they or their affiliates are providing for those affected by the earthquake and tidal waves in Asia. U.S. organizations are members of InterAction, a coalition of relief, development and refugee assistance agencies.
Action Against Hunger
247 West 37th St.
New York, NY 10018
212-967-7800
www.actionagainsthunger.org
ADRA International
Asia Quake Fund
12501 Old Columbia Pike
Silver Spring, MD 20904
800-424-ADRA (2372)
www.adra.org
Air Serv International
6583 Merchant Place, Suite 100
Warrenton, VA 20187
www.airserv.org
American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee, Inc.
DC-South Asia Tsunami Relief
P.O. Box 321
847A Second Ave.
New York, New York 10017
212-885-0832
www.jdc.org
American Jewish World Service
45 W. 36th St., 10th Fl.
New York, NY 10018
212-736-2597
www.ajws.org
AmeriCares
88 Hamilton Ave.
Stamford, CT 06902
800-486-4357
www.americares.org
Baptist World Aid
Asia Tidal Waves
405 North Washington St.
Falls Church, VA 22046
703 790 8980
www.bwanet.org/bwaid
B'nai B'rith International
B'nai B'rith Disaster Relief Fund
2020 K. St. NW
7th Floor
Washington, DC 20006
212-490-3290
www.bnaibrith.org
Brother's Brother Foundation
1200 Galveston Ave.
Pittsburgh, PA 15233
412-321-3160
www.brothersbrother.org
CARE
151 Ellis St. NE
Atlanta, GA 30303
800-521-CARE
www.care.org
Catholic Relief Services
209 West Fayette St.
Baltimore, MD 21201
800-HELP-CRS
www.catholicrelief.org
Christian Children's Fund
Child Alert Fund
PO Box 26484
Richmond, Virginia - 23261-6484
800-776-6767
www.ChristianChildrensFund.org
Christian Reformed World Relief Committee (CRWRC)
South Asia Earthquake
2850 Kalamazoo Ave. SE
Grand Rapids, MI, 49560
800-55-CRWRC
www.crwrc.org
Church World Service
PO Box 968
Elkhart, IN 46515
800-297-1516
www.churchworldservice.org
Direct Relief International
27 South La Patera Lane
Santa Barbara, CA 93117
805-964-4767
www.directrelief.org
Food for the Hungry, Inc.
Food for the Hungry
Asia Quake Relief
1224 E. Washington St.
Phoenix, AZ 85034
800-2-HUNGERS
www.fh.org
International Aid
17011 W. Hickory
Spring Lake, MI 49456
800-968-7490
www.internationalaid.org
International Medical Corps
Tsunami Emergency Response
1919 Santa Monica Blvd., Suite 300
Santa Monica, CA 90404-1950
800-481-4462
www.imcworldwide.org
International Relief Teams
Asia Earthquake/Floods
3547 Camino Del Rio South, Suite C
San Diego, CA 92108
619-284-7979
www.IRTeams.org
International Rescue Committee
PO Box 5058
Hagerstown, MD 21741-9874
877-REFUGEE or 733-8433
www.theIRC.org
Latter-Day Saint Charities
Welfare Services Emergency Response
50 East North Temple Street, Room 701
Salt Lake City, Utah, 84150-6800
801-240-3544
ldscharitiesldschurch.org
Lutheran World Relief
South Asia Tsunami
700 Light St.
Baltimore, MD 21230
410-230-2700
www.lwr.org
MAP International
P.O. Box 215000
Brunswick, GA 31521
800-225-8550
www.map.org
Mercy Corps
Southeast Asia Earthquake
Dept. W
PO Box 2669
Portland, OR 97208-2669
800-852-2100
www.mercycorps.org
Operation USA
8320 Melrose Ave. 200
Los Angeles, CA 90069
800-678-8876
www.opusa.org
Oxfam America
Asian Earthquake Fund
PO Box 1211
Albert Lea, MN 56007-1211
800-77-OXFAM
www.oxfamamerica.org
Plan USA
Asia Disaster
155 Plan Way
Warwick, RI 02886
800-556-7918
www.planusa.org
Project Concern International
Asia Tsunamis Press List
5151 Murphy Canyon Road Suite 320
San Diego, CA 92123
858-279-9690
www.projectconcern.org
Project HOPE
Asia Tsunami Response
255 Carter Hall Lane
Millwood, VA 22646
800-544-4673
www.projecthope.org
SAWSO (Salvation Army World Service Office)
South Asia Relief Fund
615 Slaters Lane
Alexandria, VA, 22313
800-SALV-ARMY
Save the Children USA
54 Wilton Road
Westport, CT 06880
1-800-728-3843
www.savethechildren.org
Stop Hunger Now
SE Asia crisis
2501 Clark Ave, Suite 200
Raleigh, NC 27607
888-501-8440
www.stophungernow.org
US Fund for UNICEF
General Emergency Fund
333 E. 38th St.
New York, NY 10016
800-4-UNICEF
www.unicefusa.org
World Concern
Asia Earthquake and Tsunami
19303 Fremont Avenue North
Seattle, WA 98133
800-755-5022
www.worldconcern.org
World Emergency Relief
2270-D Camino Vida Roble
Carlsbad, CA 92009
760-930-8001
www.worldemergencyrelief.org
World Vision
P.O. Box 70288
Tacoma, WA 98481-0288
888-56-CHILD
www.worldvision.org
seasmoke
12-28-04, 03:08 PM
just terrible stuff, over 52,000 dead now and rising :(
Israel has cancelled plans to send a 150-person rescue mission to Sri Lanka after the devastated island objected to the military composition of the team.
The delegation - including 60 soldiers - had been due to set off on Tuesday to help after Sunday's tsunami disaster.
Instead, a smaller team will escort a convoy carrying emergency supplies, Israeli officials said.
Sri Lanka restored diplomatic ties with Israel in 2000, despite objections from the island's Muslim minority.
Neither side has officially explained the change of plan, although some reports say the objection came from Sri Lanka's military.
Sri Lanka Ambassador Diffa Digeratna is quoted by Jerusalem Post as saying that the change was due to the "the lack of accommodations in Colombo".
Israel's army had planned to send staff to set up field hospitals, including internal medicine and paediatric clinics, an Israeli army spokesman said.
A situation room has been set up to track down Israeli holidaymakers
Other Israeli agencies have sent emergency relief to Sri Lanka and other tsunami-hit countries.
Humanitarian organisation Latet sent a jumbo jet carrying 18 metric tons of supplies to Colombo, medical teams have been dispatched to Thailand and help offered to India, Haaretz reported.
A rescue-and-recovery team from the Jewish ultra-Orthodox organisation Zaka left for the region on Monday with equipment used for identifying bodies, as well as body bags.
Israel's foreign ministry has set up a situation room for relatives to track down hundreds of Israelis on holiday in the tsunami zone, who have not yet made contact.
No one from the country has yet been confirmed dead in the disaster.
SomeVoices
12-28-04, 03:34 PM
Here's a couple of videos that i found:
Video 1 (http://www.downloaddungeon.com/mods/brevity/tsunami/tsunamiphuket.wmv)
Video 2 (http://politiken.dk/media/wvx/3537.WVX)
Amazing.
(credit goes to brevity @ LWS)
Wow, those are unbelievable. The videos helped to clear up for me what can be so bad about a tsunami. In the first video, the wave wasn't the worst part, it was the fact that the sea level rose about 15-20 feet in a matter of seconds and must have taken some time to go back down. Unless there was some way to get high in a building or higher ground drowning would be tough to avoid.
The other video showed the wave coming in, which was freaky as shit. It didn't come very far ashore though, so it must have been nothing compared to other areas that were hit by the tsunami.
Hiro11
12-28-04, 03:43 PM
Here's a cool little story.
I was reading the Sydney Morning Herald (Australian newspaper) and I came across this harrowing survivor's account: http://www.smh.com.au/news/World/The-sound-of-roaring-thunder--then--screaming/2004/12/28/1103996555398.html
One part of the story hit me particularly hard:
We hurried up the mountain on automatic pilot to a half-built resort where people seemed to be heading. And then the waiting, and the stories, began. Parents without children, husbands without wives, children without parents, a blond two-year-old boy wandering around without anyone.The idea of a little boy wandering around with no one helping him is just heartbreaking.
Imagine my surprise when I read this article in the Boston Globe:
http://www.boston.com/news/world/asia/articles/2004/12/28/swedish_2_year_old_reunited_with_uncle_1104260244/
A 2-year-old boy who was found dazed and alone on a roadside in the wasteland of a tsunami-devastated Thai resort was reunited Tuesday with his uncle, who spotted the child's picture on the Internet.
The boy, identified by his uncle as Hannes Bergstroem, was found Sunday night on a road in Phang Nga province near the beach resort of Khao Lak, about 60 miles from the island of Phuket. He was taken to Phuket International Hospital where the staff posted pictures of the blond-haired boy with red spots all over his face from mosquito bites on its Web site on Monday. They also published his photo in a local newspaper.
Same island, same town, same 2 year old blonde boy? It's got to be him
http://www.phuket-inter-hospital.co.th/boy2.jpg
It's good to see a little good news coming out of such a terrible catastrophy.
ChiTownAbs, Inc
12-28-04, 03:51 PM
The dean of Kellogg (Northwestern's School of Management) was in Thailand on the beach.
Northwestern dean survives quake
By Melanie Coffee
The Associated Press
Published December 28, 2004, 9:10 AM CST
Dipak Jain first knew something was wrong when his sofa trembled as he was having his morning tea at a beach-front resort in Thailand. Then hours later while he was walking back to his hotel, the dean at Northwestern University's business school stopped in his tracks as a gigantic wall of water came barreling toward the building.
The massive wave filled with broken boats, chairs and tables hit a large lagoon just in front of the hotel, missing the structure.
``When the wave started pouring into the lagoon, it reminded me of Niagara Falls,'' Jain said Monday by telephone from just outside Bangkok.
Jain and his family were among the Illinoisans who were in South Asia when an undersea earthquake caused tsunamis that killed more than 44,000 people in nine countries.
Jain, dean of the Kellogg School of Management at Northwestern, has been in Thailand since Dec. 15 to teach at a school in Bangkok that partners with Kellogg. Jain, his wife, and their three children left Bangkok on Saturday for the island of Phuket.
For the family, Sunday was to be a day of fun at the beach with friends. When Jain felt the earth shake briefly that morning, there didn't seem to be any danger, so the family continued with their plans for breakfast near the beach. Then while returning to the hotel, they saw the tidal wave.
The family was less than 100 yards from the wave, but Jain said they were not in danger of getting swept away because much of the water went into the lagoon.
``We are very fortunate,'' Jain said. ``When you see things like that, you get a very different perspective on life, you see how short life can be.''
Jain's hotel was later evacuated and with the help of a few friends, he and his family flew out of Phuket and to safety in inland Bangkok.
succubiss
12-28-04, 03:56 PM
Wow, i've been in the sportsbook and on the slopes since sunday, and this is the first I've heard of this. Sad times.
Green Jello
12-28-04, 04:10 PM
Wow, i've been in the sportsbook and on the slopes since sunday, and this is the first I've heard of this. Sad times.
How the hell is it possible that you haven't heard about this? I assume you were in the Tahoe or Reno casinos, not a third world country while you were skiing.
criptik28
12-28-04, 04:32 PM
Just horrible...the death toll just keeps rising every morning when I check the news.
succubiss
12-28-04, 04:36 PM
How the hell is it possible that you haven't heard about this? I assume you were in the Tahoe or Reno casinos, not a third world country while you were skiing.
We got up to Reno by noon on Sunday. Placed bets on the 1pm games at the Circus Circus sportsbook. Played poker and watched the games till 7pm. None of the game channels mentioned this at all.
Had dinner and then gambled at Golden Phoenix till 1am. Left for Mt Rose at 7:30am. After that, we hit Thunder Valley for dinner and more gambling, and got back to the bay area late Monday night.
I feel like I've been gone for a week.
Phil L.
12-28-04, 05:04 PM
Just saw that little kid on the NYC 5pm news. The report indicated that his father has been located alive in a different hospital but his mother remains missing.
stevevt
12-28-04, 06:27 PM
The first video clip seems to be down. Here it is at a different site:
I get Forbidden
You don't have permission to access /download/tsunamiphuket.wmv on this server.
Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.
I'll try IE
edit - no go in IE either. hmm...
stevevt
12-28-04, 06:50 PM
hmmm...
I get Forbidden
You don't have permission to access /download/tsunamiphuket.wmv on this server.
Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.
I'll try IE
edit - no go in IE either. hmm...
Right-click...Save Target As
nevermind
12-28-04, 06:54 PM
Right-click...Save Target As
OK this time it worked in IE, but not in Firefox. Wierd. Thanks.
edit :eek: :eek: :eek:
DVD Polizei
12-28-04, 07:29 PM
Personally, I don't think anything could have really saved people. I saw this video, and I would have reacted the same way. One wave comes in, and you think it's just weird, and you start to calm down, but then you realize something bigger is coming, and well, you're screwed, and making weird facial expressions on the roof of your hut, watching boats pass you by, and fish passing you by, that should be at least 1000 feet from your dwelling.
nevermind
12-28-04, 07:34 PM
Abs - I'm sending one to you now.
DVD Polizei
12-28-04, 07:42 PM
Looks like we're up to 60,000. Indonesia is saying they may have 50,000 dead just in their country, so this may get up to 100,000 or more by the end of this weak. I'm just hoping we don't have another one in the area while rescue efforts are underway.
P.S. Anyone read Nostradamus?
Kittydreamer
12-28-04, 07:46 PM
I saw pictures in a newspaper today of a woman sitting beside several dead children - some of them just babies. Man, it made me grab my toddler and give him a huge hug.
What a horrible thing to happen. :(
Jam Master Jay
12-28-04, 07:46 PM
I didn't see if this link was posted or not, but there's like 3 tsunami vids on this site.
LOS ANGELES, California (Reuters) -- The massive earthquake that devastated parts of Asia permanently moved the tectonic plates beneath the Indian Ocean as much as 98 feet (30 meters), slightly shifting islands near Sumatra an unknown distance, U.S. scientists said on Tuesday.
A tsunami spawned by the 9.0-magnitude quake off the northern tip of Sumatra killed an estimated 60,000 on Sunday in Indonesia, Thailand, India, Malaysia, Sri Lanka and East Africa.
Satellite images showed that the movement of undersea plates off the northern tip of Sumatra moved the Nicobar Islands and Simeulue Island out to sea by an unknown distance, U.S. Geological Survey geophysicist Ken Hudnut said.
Although the data showed that plates more than 12 miles (20 km) beneath the ocean's surface moved dramatically, scientists will have to use handheld satellite positioning systems at the sites to learn precisely how much the land masses on the surface shifted, Hudnut
DVD Polizei
12-29-04, 01:15 AM
MysterX,
Amazon is up to almost $900,000 in donations. Sweet. :up:
Myster X
12-29-04, 01:29 AM
Yup. It's getting there.
$873,828.00 as of 10:30PM PST
Giantrobo
12-29-04, 01:36 AM
Wow, now it looks like the quake actually moved some islands,
LOS ANGELES, California (Reuters) -- The massive earthquake that devastated parts of Asia permanently moved the tectonic plates beneath the Indian Ocean as much as 98 feet (30 meters), slightly shifting islands near Sumatra an unknown distance, U.S. scientists said on Tuesday.
A tsunami spawned by the 9.0-magnitude quake off the northern tip of Sumatra killed an estimated 60,000 on Sunday in Indonesia, Thailand, India, Malaysia, Sri Lanka and East Africa.
Satellite images showed that the movement of undersea plates off the northern tip of Sumatra moved the Nicobar Islands and Simeulue Island out to sea by an unknown distance, U.S. Geological Survey geophysicist Ken Hudnut said.
Although the data showed that plates more than 12 miles (20 km) beneath the ocean's surface moved dramatically, scientists will have to use handheld satellite positioning systems at the sites to learn precisely how much the land masses on the surface shifted, Hudnut
Yeah I had asked about this earlier in the thread. I think I heard Sumatra was moved 100 feet South after the quake.
TomOpus
12-29-04, 02:44 AM
Here is the <a href=http://www.wild-onion.org/tsunamiphuket.wmv>video</a> that was taken offline.The news reported that the guy that taped this tried to rescue the elderly couple (clinging to the railing) that was swept away (at 00:53 mark). He got the husband but the wife is still missing.
eau
12-29-04, 03:42 AM
The first video clip seems to be down. Here it is at a different site:
There was footage of this little girl just standing on the side of the street, not sure where her parents are, they are most likely dead, i just burst into tears. There will be lots of stories like this, orphaned children, tragic beyond all imagination.
There is so much to deal with, not just the deaths, now there is the disease issue, rebuilding, looking after the survivors. Hate to say it, but i see many pedophiles making their way to these disaster regions to pray on the vunerable children left behind.
We are looking at 100 000 people plus dead, that is just unimaginable when a family of 4 dying in a car crash usually is headline news.
shifrbv
12-29-04, 07:56 AM
Some freaky stories are coming out of this. I heard on Good Morning America that there were reports from small children who survived that they were somehow able to breathe underwater. The children couldn't explain it, it was just something they were able to do that helped them survive. Some weird stuff always comes out when you have such massive tragedy and devastation.
Hopefully this is it for awhile. There's alot of legend/mythology involving Krakatoa. Maybe now I'll stop having all those dreams about water.
Grimfarrow
12-29-04, 08:18 AM
Saw some really sad stories here as well. This Canadian guy is running around trying to find his missing girlfriend, who is also a Hong Kong resident. It's really heartbreaking when he bursts into tears and said "I love her...I'm not leaving Thailand without her".
DVD Polizei
12-29-04, 08:43 AM
At least some places are just burning the bodies, instead of burying them. Burying them is a really bad idea. Disease factor is going to be a serious problem.
Wednesday, December 29, 2004 Posted: 7:12 AM EST (1212 GMT)
(CNN) -- An American woman who was scuba diving with her husband in Thailand as one of Sunday's tsunamis roared overhead said she was oblivious to the disaster until after they surfaced, her mother told CNN on Tuesday.
Faye Wachs, 34, was diving with her husband, Eugene Kim, Sunday morning off Ko Phi Phi Island in Thailand when they noticed the water visibility worsened and felt as though they were being sucked downward, Helen Wachs said.
Their dive master signaled to them to surface, "but we still didn't know what happened," Faye wrote in an e-mail to her mother Tuesday.
The enormity of what was happening while they were scuba diving was not immediately apparent after they surfaced, Helen Wachs said her daughter told her.
"She said she saw a lot of trash in the water. The dive master said it was really rude for people to throw trash. Then they saw large bits of debris and thought there might have been a boat crash," Helen Wachs said.
She said her daughter didn't know what had happened until the dive master got a text message from his wife telling him about the catastrophe.
Soon they saw bodies floating past them, Wachs' mother said in an interview from Oakland, California, where she lives.
Once they returned to shore, the couple did what they could to help, Helen Wachs said.
"I can't describe carrying a moaning person who just saw his girlfriend killed down a hill in the middle of the night," the e-mail said. "I saw more bodies than I care to report. The hotel where we were staying is mostly gone. We lost everything, but our lives."
Faye Wachs said she was impressed by the efforts of the Thai government and the International Committee for the Red Cross, but "she was appalled at the treatment they got" from the U.S. government, her mother said.
At the airport in Bangkok, other governments had set up booths to greet nationals who had been affected and to help repatriate them, she said.
That was not the case with the U.S. government, Wachs told her mother. It took the couple three hours, she said, to find the officials from the American consulate, who were in the VIP lounge.
Because they had lost all their possessions, including their documentation, they had to have new passports issued.
But the U.S. officials demanded payment to take the passport pictures, Helen Wachs said.
The couple had managed to hold on to their ATM card, so they paid for the photos and helped other Americans who did not have any money get their pictures taken and buy food, Helen Wachs said.
"She was really very surprised" that the government did so little to ease their ordeal, she said.
Helen Wachs said her daughter told her they would need "some serious counseling" upon their return to Los Angeles.
Once aboard the plane, Wachs told her mother, the biggest thing they noticed was the absence of the stench of raw sewage that had permeated the air.
"She said the clean smell was amazing."
Wachs, who described herself as "shell-shocked but happy to be coming home," is scheduled to arrive Wednesday morning in Los Angeles, her mother said.
She returns acutely aware that many thousands of others don't have that option.
"The tourists are able to get out, but those there are left with utter destruction," Helen Wachs said.
DVD Polizei
12-29-04, 10:04 AM
US Officials demanding payment for passport photos? Sounds like our wonderful capitalistic society at work. If we were socialistic, we wouldn't be charging them. :)
mosquitobite
12-29-04, 10:09 AM
US Officials demanding payment for passport photos? Sounds like our wonderful capitalistic society at work. If we were socialistic, we wouldn't be charging them. :)
Not true. If we were socialist - the rest of us would be paying for them. ;) There would still be a charge.
Which, in this case, I wouldn't mind paying for them myself. ;)
al_bundy
12-29-04, 10:14 AM
either the story isn't true, or it's some prick state department people trying to show off who is in charge
DVD Polizei
12-29-04, 10:18 AM
It's probably a misunderstanding. It is rather odd that we have this "stingy US" comment variance floating around in various stories now, and seeminly spreading from UN comments.
One guy I'd love to punch in the nose, and then in nutsack, is our UN friend, Jan Egeland.
Actually, I think that will be my sig for a while.
Geofferson
12-29-04, 10:22 AM
CNN is reporting 80,000 now.
Minor Threat
12-29-04, 10:22 AM
http://www.nrk.no/img/270433.jpeg
"Why you......you............"
nevermind
12-29-04, 10:30 AM
It's probably a misunderstanding. It is rather odd that we have this "stingy US" comment variance floating around in various stories now, and seeminly spreading from UN comments.
One guy I'd love to punch in the nose, and then in nutsack, is our UN friend, Jan Egeland.
Actually, I think that will be my sig for a while.
The US should use the money earmarked for paying the UN dues and send it for disaster relief.
Grimfarrow
12-29-04, 10:33 AM
It's probably a misunderstanding. It is rather odd that we have this "stingy US" comment variance floating around in various stories now, and seeminly spreading from UN comments.
Although U.N. Emergency Relief Coordinator Jan Egeland yesterday withdrew his earlier comment, domestic criticism of Bush continued to rise. Skeptics said the initial aid sums -- as well as Bush's decision at first to remain cloistered on his Texas ranch for the Christmas holiday rather than speak in person about the tragedy -- showed scant appreciation for the magnitude of suffering and for the rescue and rebuilding work facing such nations as Sri Lanka, India, Thailand and Indonesia.
After a day of repeated inquiries from reporters about his public absence, Bush late yesterday afternoon announced plans to hold a National Security Council meeting by teleconference to discuss several issues, including the tsunami, followed by a short public statement.
Bush's deepened public involvement puts him more in line with other world figures. In Germany, Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder cut short his vacation and returned to work in Berlin because of the Indian Ocean crisis, which began with a gigantic underwater earthquake. In Britain, the predominant U.S. voice speaking about the disaster was not Bush but former president Bill Clinton (news - web sites), who in an interview with the BBC said the suffering was like something in a "horror movie," and urged a coordinated international response.
There was an international outpouring of support after the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, and even some administration officials familiar with relief efforts said they were surprised that Bush had not appeared personally to comment on the tsunami tragedy. "It's kind of freaky," a senior career official said.
U.S. officials denied that the overnight aid increase was a response to the U.N. complaint Monday that some countries were "stingy" with aid. Usually only about 10 percent of the final aid tally is given in the initial response to a natural disaster, with the bulk of aid provided after an assessment of long-term needs, according to the State Department.
Gelb said what appears to be a grudging increase in effort sends the wrong message, at a time when dollar totals matter less than a clear statement about U.S. intentions. Noting that the disaster occurred at a time when large numbers of people in many nations -- especially Muslim ones such as Indonesia -- object to U.S. policies in Iraq, he said Bush was missing an opportunity to demonstrate American benevolence.
"People do watch and see what we do," he said. "Here's an opportunity to remind people of the good we do, and he [Bush] can do it without changing his policy on Iraq or terrorism."
nevermind
12-29-04, 10:37 AM
:eek: Criticism of Bush? Get the fuck out of here!! :eek:
Shocking.
Bandoman
12-29-04, 10:39 AM
The US should use the money earmarked for paying the UN dues and send it for disaster relief.
Brilliant. :up:
Minor Threat
12-29-04, 10:40 AM
:eek: Criticism of Bush? Get the fuck out of here!! :eek:
The criticisms at Bush are quite unfair, but the accounts about how slow and disorganised the US embassy has been at setting up relief seems to be true. Most pointed at how quick the British were at setting up emergency hotlines and providing for their injured and/or lost citizens wihin the affected area.
Tommy Ceez
12-29-04, 10:45 AM
:eek: Criticism of Bush? Get the fuck out of here!! :eek:
The criticisms at Bush are quite unfair, but the accounts about how slow and disorganised the US embassy has been at setting up relief seems to be true. Most pointed at how quick the British were at setting up emergency hotlines and providing for their injured and/or lost citizens wihin the affected area.
It might have to do with the level of American tourist presence in these countries...the cream of the crop american diplomats would probably be in Mexico and Canada, while Austrialian and European diplomats would be more capable in South Asia and Africa. Kinda like a budget thing.
suziq999
12-29-04, 10:49 AM
CNN now has a total of 80,000!!! Holy shit.
On a strange note I was searching for a picture and found an early news release that said something like "up to 300 may be dead from tsunamis"... :( Too bad that didn't stick.
Myster X
12-29-04, 10:55 AM
It might be Bush's fault afterall. -rolleyes-
Grimfarrow
12-29-04, 10:55 AM
It might have to do with the level of American tourist presence in these countries...the cream of the crop american diplomats would probably be in Mexico and Canada, while Austrialian and European diplomats would be more capable in South Asia and Africa. Kinda like a budget thing.
Well, 12 Americans have died, with hundreds missing. That's easily comparable to most European countries, so I don't think that's a valid excuse.
The death toll in the tsunami disaster soared past 100,000 today - and is set to climb higher.
A total of 50 Britons are now confirmed dead and at least 100 are unaccounted for after tidal waves swept away resorts in Thailand, Sri Lanka, India and around the Indian Ocean.
Officials in every country today warned the final number of dead will be even higher as rescue teams reach remote areas.
The UN said there were now strong grounds to believe that the toll in the Sumatran province of Aceh, the worst affected area, would be as high as 80,000. The number dead has now climbed in every country affected, including:
Thailand: 1,700 confirmed dead, including 43 British tourists.
Indonesia: more than 42,000 confirmed dead.
India: nearly 7,000 dead, and many coastal areas including parts of Kerala still to be searched.
Sri Lanka: 22,500 are confirmed dead and there are fears for hundreds of independent British travellers on the east coast.
Aid agencies today warned disease will also cause massive casualties among the survivors as the biggest relief effort in history began.
The British toll climbed as a new alert was sounded over the number missing. Abta, the tours operators' association, said there were 100 Britons unaccounted for. There are no confirmed numbers for missing backpackers.
Today more dramatic accounts emerged as hundreds of Britons flew back to Heathrow from Thailand.
Businessman Neil Tennant, from Woodbridge, Suffolk, told how he and his family had to flee to the roof of their hotel in Khao Lak as a giant wave swamped the building.
He said: "We ran up to the roof from our room just a few seconds before the water swamped it. I have no doubt we would have been killed if we had stayed where we were."
Amy Davies, from Camden, who was staying at Ko Phi Phi in Thailand, arrived home still in her swimming costume. She said: "I saw a drowned child in the water below me."
First Choice said six of its 248 customers in Phuket were still unaccounted after Sunday's tsunami.
An official at the British embassy in the Sri Lankan capital, Colombo, today said the confirmed British death toll there stood at three.
First Choice had 584 holidaymakers in the Maldives. One died and all the others have been accounted for.
MyTravel said it had between 850 and 900 clients in the affected area. Most had been accounted for.
The vast majority of the 3,500 foreigners still unaccounted for in the disaster region are from Scandinavia. The missing include at least 1,500 Swedes, 800 Norwegians, 214 Danes and 200 Finns.
Families across Britain were today in mourning and hundreds waited helplessly for news of their loved ones. Film director Lord Attenborough was among those grieving after it was confirmed his granddaughter, Lucy, 14, was dead and his daughter, Jane Holland, 49, was missing, feared dead. Jane's mother-in-law, also called Jane Holland, was also missing in Phuket. The family, who live in London, have asked for privacy "at this terrible time".
The south-east Asian communities of London watched in horror as the tsunami destroyed the lives of their relatives. Moulana Mazahir, from Harrow, lost 50 close relatives when a wall of water destroyed his home town of Hambantotain southern Sri Lanka. The 45-year-old chef 's only solace is that his wife and three sons, who had been on holiday in the resort, escaped with their lives after leaving just three hours before disaster struck.
"My life will never be the same. It was a miracle my wife and sons are still alive - but they are terrified."
Mohammed Samsudena and his wife Nirusha, 29, also from Harrow, say they have lost 40 family members and are desperately trying to contact other relatives in Hambantota. The 36-year-old petrol station sales assistant said: "Yesterday morning we heard that the body of my sister-in-law, Fatima, had been found. She was only 18."
Relatives of London newlyweds Christopher and Gaynor Mullen, from Richmond, now fear the worst - last hearing from the couple on Christmas Day, when they simply said they were "on the beach" in Thailand.
Fashion photographer Simon Atlee, 33, from London, most famous for his photograph of Rugby World Cup hero Jonny Wilkinson in the Hackett advertisements, was also swept away in the tidal wave as his holiday bungalow in Khao Lak near Phuket was destroyed. His girlfriend, Czech model Petra Nemcova, 25, survived by clinging onto a palm tree.
Louise Willgrass, 43, from Colney, near Norwich, was washed away after she had got out of the rented car her family was travelling in to buy suncream at a Phuket supermarket.
The car, being driven by her husband Nigel and containing their four children, Emily, 16, Ben, 14, Michael, nine and Katie, six was overwhelmed by the tidal wave. Mr Willgrass managed to pull the children free and they survived by clinging to floating debris.
Conservation volunteer Lisa Jones, 31, is feared dead on the tiny Thai island of Koh Phra Thong, where she had been helping research sea turtles.
From that thread:
We could learn something from "W" and clear a Lil BrUSH of our own....God, I try so hard not to hate, but this war criminal resident in thief makes it damn hard!
Arrrrghhhh......Bu$h=Nero, fiddling while Rome Burns
brizz
12-29-04, 11:19 AM
You know, I saw Egeland's original comments, and listened to him on Larry King and elsewhere last night and have to say that much of this uproar is being generated out of thin air by the people supposedly outraged by it. He NEVER once named the US or Bush, but was talking about how ALL western nations could do more, in general, to help poorer nations. HE DOES NOT SAY "STINGY US" AT ANY TIME IN HIS REMARKS. They were completely misrepresented by the US Press (*GASP*) It was ill-timed, sure, but at no point was it directed at America, let alone Bush. It seems Bush supporters, however, can only see invective against their boy in everything coming from the UN or something. Talk about blinders.
Sad thing is that he's pretty much right, we could (and by we, i mean the industrialized Western "1st world") and should do far more. And the initial $15 million offer was pathetic. Hell, the counties around me spend that much on snow removal every year. This is going to assume ungodly proportions very quickly, and we should be doing everything we can to help. The epidemics that are likely to ensue will be worse than the actual tsunami. But that is preventable with action.
heimerSWT
12-29-04, 11:19 AM
It might have to do with the level of American tourist presence in these countries...the cream of the crop american diplomats would probably be in Mexico and Canada, while Austrialian and European diplomats would be more capable in South Asia and Africa. Kinda like a budget thing.Well, 12 Americans have died, with hundreds missing. That's easily comparable to most European countries, so I don't think that's a valid excuse.I have never been to Asia, so I am definitely not an expert, but two of my closest friends visited Thailand in June, and said the amount of European tourists were significantly higher than the American tourists. If this is true, does it make sense for European countries to have a reason to respond quicker?
nevermind
12-29-04, 11:23 AM
rotfl
From that thread:
tries so hard not to hate :lol: yeahhhh...
Tommy Ceez
12-29-04, 11:27 AM
I tend to think that France not the US should be the most insulted of all at those comments...maybe its just that Americans are used to being beated up by the UN and get defensive.
I have never been to Asia, so I am definitely not an expert, but two of my closest friends visited Thailand in June, and said the amount of European tourists were significantly higher than the American tourists. If this is true, does it make sense for European countries to have a reason to respond quicker?
Not just a reason, but an established infrastructure to respond better.
nevermind
12-29-04, 11:33 AM
I tend to think that France not the US should be the most insulted of all at those comments...maybe its just that Americans are used to being beated up by the UN and get defensive.
Buy: