The criticisms at Bush are quite unfair.

Not to open this can of worms again, but I'm not so sure about that. This is worst world tragedy I can remember, and we haven't heard a peep from him. Would it have killed him to make a short public statement?

No, I'm not blaming him. No, I'm not bashing the U.S. But is it really too much to ask for the face of our nation to get on television and express our sympathies and desire to help when thousands of people die in a natural disaster?

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/12/29/bush.quake/index.html Bush announces tsunami aid coalition
Disaster is 'beyond our comprehension'

CRAWFORD, Texas (CNN) -- President Bush said Wednesday that he has formed an international aid group with other nations to respond to the massive tsunami disaster along coastlines of the Indian Ocean.

The president interrupted his vacation at his Texas ranch to speak with reporters for the first time since Sunday's earthquake-triggered waves killed tens of thousands of people.

"It's just beyond our comprehension to think about how many lives have been lost," Bush said.

He announced that the United States has "established a regional core group with India, Japan and Australia to help coordinate relief efforts. I'm confident more nations will join this core group in short order."

Bush said the tsunamis that hit parts of Indonesia, India, Sri Lanka, Thailand and other coastal areas represented "one of the major natural disasters in world history."

"Clearly there wasn't a proper warning system in place for that part of the world," Bush said. "And it seems like to me it makes sense for the world to come together to develop a warning system that will help all nations."

Some of the tsunamis reached as far as 1,000 miles (1,600 kilometers) from the epicenter of the 9.0-magnitude quake, which was located about 100 miles (160 kilometers) off the coast of Indonesia's Sumatra Island at a depth of about 6 miles (10 kilometers).

Offering condolences, Bush said, "our prayers go out to the people who've lost so much to this series of disasters."

"Our embassies are working with host governments to locate American citizens who are still missing and to assist those who have been injured or displaced," Bush said.

Bush also announced that the Pentagon is "dispatching a Marine expeditionary unit, the aircraft carrier [USS] Abraham Lincoln and the maritime preposition squadron from Guam to the area to help with relief efforts."

"Our government is focused and will continue to respond to help those who suffer," Bush said.

On Monday, Jan Egeland, U.N. undersecretary-general for humanitarian affairs and emergency relief, criticized the world's "rich countries," saying, in general, that the amount of foreign aid they gave was "stingy."

In response, Bush said he "felt like the person who made that statement was very misguided and ill-informed."

Mentioning the $35 million in already-pledged U.S. aid, Bush said the United States is a "very generous, kind-hearted nation, and, you know, what you're beginning to see is a typical response from America."

On Tuesday, Egeland said his comments had been misunderstood. "I have been misinterpreted when I yesterday said that my belief that rich countries in general can be more generous," Egeland said. "This has nothing to do with any particular country or the response to this emergency. We're in early days and the response has so far been overwhelmingly positive."

Not to open this can of worms again, but I'm not so sure about that. This is worst world tragedy I can remember, and we haven't heard a peep from him. Would it have killed him to make a short public statement?

No, I'm not blaming him. No, I'm not bashing the U.S. But is it really too much to ask for the face of our nation to get on television and express our sympathies and desire to help when thousands of people die in a natural disaster?

:up:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/12/29/bush.quake/index.html

:up:

Sad thing is that he's pretty much right, we could (and by we, i mean the industrialized Western "1st world") and should do far more. And the initial $15 million offer was pathetic. Hell, the counties around me spend that much on snow removal every year. This is going to assume ungodly proportions very quickly, and we should be doing everything we can to help. The epidemics that are likely to ensue will be worse than the actual tsunami. But that is preventable with action.

Well, the US has forked out major aid to tragic incidents around the globe for years. And every damn year, it gets written off because it won't get paid. It's the same here. Yes, we should help, but goddamn, let's have India and Asia contribute 75% of what's needed. How much foreign help did we get when we had the hurricanes in Florida this year, or the massive flooding in California a year or so back. None. Not even a gester. Not only does the US have to take care of itself, but the US is also apparently responsible for the rest of the world? If this is the case, then we should have territorial rights to the world as well. Hah, fat chance.

If we were paid back the money, hek, let's give'em $500 million, but you darn well we will never see the money we give to them again. A few years from now Asia will be condeming the US and its terrorism tactics and so forth, easily forgetting the help we gave them. So, while I think we should help, we should not have a deep pocket.

The US is like a grandparent who has several co-dependent grandchildren, where, if anything happens, "Let's call grandma and grandpa because they have the money!"

The US is involved with dozens of crisis situations around the world, UNLIKE any of these countries and organizations who accuse us of being a scrooge. The UN needs to STFU, as well as France and a few other countries.

How much foreign help did we get when we had the hurricanes in Florida this year, or the massive flooding in California a year or so back. None. Not even a gester.

To be fair, I think the French sent a jester.

http://www.caribbeanluck.com/Images/mardigras/jester.jpg

:lol:

You made me spill my double-shot hot cocao. :mad:

To be fair, I think the French sent a jester.

http://www.caribbeanluck.com/Images/mardigras/jester.jpg


rotfl

Sri Lanka, India and Indonesia have the biggest number of death (in order). But the order could change to Indonesia, Sri Lanka and India, since in the local tv news tonight, it's been reported 32,000+ death in Aceh and North Sumatera, and it is still raising. No news can give accurate numbers so far.

The tsunami hit only in seconds after the earthquake in Aceh, sweeping thousand of unaware villagers who were still in shock because of the quake.

I've heard an on-line report from one of the female TV reporter who came to Aceh yesterday morning. She reported everything she saw .. and she was crying. She almost couldn't get in to the affected area, cause the situation over there was so chaotic. Bodies were everywhere. Marines arrived by trucks, brought nothing but themselves, just to help evacuating the bodies as fast as it could be. She raised a desperate call (almost in panic) to the TV station, asking for help. And I felt depressed only by hearing her voice :(.

There is a photo of a child died in a bucket, stranded on the street. My god.

There is a heartbreaking footage of a mother who did not want to let go of her child's dead body from her arms, histerically rejecting all the people who wanted to comfort her. It is playing over and over again on TV.

After the hit, transportation and communication line in Aceh and North Sumatera was totally cut off. So the news about the disaster was spread very-very late. Practically, Aceh and North Sumatera were facing this disaster alone for around two days. Even some areas in Aceh are still isolated up to now. Volunteers or helpers are having difficulties in reaching them. Not to mention the lack of fuel for the machinery that could help evacuating.

The smell of the dead bodies by now is getting worse. Helpers are tired of evacuating since the last four days, day and night. They give their hands out while they are facing they're own family losses. They are racing with time. After they evacuate the bodies, they have to disinfect the area as it is already been contaminated by the rotten corpses.

Since today's afternoon, the television has been broadcasting a 30-minute amateur video recording the situation in Banda Aceh a day before the hit (it was Christmas holiday, for goodness sake!). The video was taken by a girl, whose father is missing until now. The beach was calm, the sea water was blue .. children were swimming .. a man was recorded singing on the beach, illustrating the beautiful day. And then it jumped to the seconds before the tidal waves hit on Sunday morning. The girl and her family stayed and recorded it from the second floor of their house. It was a terrifying moment. They prayed and continuously called God's name, they cried, they hugged each other while seeing the waves swept everything off underneath and around them. They were worried about the head of the family whose right at that moment had just left, and possibly was trapped in his car right on the street in front of the house. When the tides went low, the video camera captures some people were sitting on the roof of houses. When they tried to go downstairs, they saw the first floor was completely damaged. A cry for help was heard and they found a man was trapped under the junks, but they didn't dare to go further. They just asked the man to hang on for a little bit longer as the waves were heading back to the sea. The family finally had courage to get out of the house at around 12noon. Have no idea how was the man under the junks. Dead? Alive?

People are at the point of despair in searching for the missing relatives .. they assume all the missing ones are dead, they won't look for them any longer. The ones that still have a little hope, walking down the street and turning over every single dead body they found just to look for familiar faces.

Some said, 50% of Aceh and North Sumatera residents had gone missing or dead. I hope the information is not true, please ..

The most needed: water, ready-to-eat food .. plastic bags for the dead bodies and the volunteers to evacuate them .. and lots, lots of prayer as Aceh is still experiencing quakes tonight.

These are bits and pieces from Indonesia's TV and newspapers. And I believe it's still far from how it actually is in the doomed areas.

Indonesia is crying. Asia is crying. May the deads be rested properly, and may the survivors be given strength to go through this catastrophe.

<b>https://secure3.salvationarmy.org/donations.nsf/donate?openform&projectid=IHQ-Asia_Fund&t=US_USC*USE*USS*USW


Surely, we can spare at least $50. Most of us probably spent more than that on entertainment this month.</b>

Haven't caught up in this thread, but I just saw on CNN that the death toll is now up to 80,000.

I just read here: http://www.tamilnet.com/art.html?catid=13&artid=13771 , in a particular Sri Lanka area, that we now have local communities preventing relief trucks from going through their areas, and instead, are taking all the food and supplies for themselves.

Btw, a few reports are already at 100,000...and rising. We may top 200,000+ dead in two-weeks to a month due to disease-related deaths. It appears as if chaos and help are now turning into mobs and violent attempts to get food for their own families or communities.

After reading other articles on this site, I count over 25,000 still missing in parts of Sri Lanka alone.

<b>https://secure3.salvationarmy.org/donations.nsf/donate?openform&projectid=IHQ-Asia_Fund&t=US_USC*USE*USS*USW


Surely, we can spare at least $50. Most of us probably spent more than that on entertainment this month.</b>





What percentage of my donation would actually go to help the victims?

What percentage of my donation would actually go to help the victims?

I would also like to know.

There's no guarantee of any percentage from ANY organization. If you want 100% certainty, you will have to fly to the affected areas, and personally give the victims the money/aid.

Here is something interesting, looks like animals have a sixth sense and made their way to safety before the waves struck

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=516&u=/ap/20041229/ap_on_re_as/quake_sri_lanka_animals_1&printer=1


YALA NATIONAL PARK, Sri Lanka - Wildlife officials in Sri Lanka expressed surprise Wednesday that they found no evidence of large-scale animal deaths from the weekend's massive tsunami — indicating that animals may have sensed the wave coming and fled to higher ground.



An Associated Press photographer who flew over Sri Lanka's Yala National Park in an air force helicopter saw abundant wildlife, including elephants, buffalo, deer, and not a single animal corpse.

Floodwaters from the tsunami swept into the park, uprooting trees and toppling cars onto their roofs — one red car even ended up on top of a huge tree — but the animals apparently were not harmed and may have sought out high ground, said Gehan de Silva Wijeyeratne, whose Jetwing Eco Holidays ran a hotel in the park.

"This is very interesting. I am finding bodies of humans, but I have yet to see a dead animal," said Wijeyeratne, whose hotel in the park was totally destroyed in Sunday's tidal surge.

"Maybe what we think is true, that animals have a sixth sense," Wijeyeratne said.

Yala, Sri Lanka's largest wildlife reserve, is home to 200 Asian Elephants, crocodile, wild boar, water buffalo and gray langur monkeys. The park also has Asia's highest concentration of leopards. The Yala reserve covers an area of 391 square miles, but only 56 square miles are open to tourists.

The human death toll in Sri Lanka surpassed 21,000. Forty foreigners were among 200 people in Yala who were killed.

Not to open this can of worms again, but I'm not so sure about that. This is worst world tragedy I can remember, and we haven't heard a peep from him. Would it have killed him to make a short public statement?

No, I'm not blaming him. No, I'm not bashing the U.S. But is it really too much to ask for the face of our nation to get on television and express our sympathies and desire to help when thousands of people die in a natural disaster?


My god man chill out. America is doing something and no doubt as the cry...bitching and moaning if you ask me but no one did, goes out from people like you and others who seem to think America can do nothing right the financial commitment will grow eventhough America is going through tough financial times of its own depending on who you talk too. Every time, I mean every fuckin' time some other nations gets its "dick knocked in" all eyes turn to the U.S. and suddenly we're the "World's Saviour".

But I know one thing, unlike the rest of the World on 9/11 and many other tragedies that nailed the U.S., you will NOT SEE any American cheering about the tragedy in those countries. Because inspite of what people like you think America IS a GIVING country full of people who DO give a fuck what happens around the world.

You're NOT the only one who gives a shit ok?

There's no guarantee of any percentage from ANY organization. If you want 100% certainty, you will have to fly to the affected areas, and personally give the victims the money/aid.


I know, but I vaguely remember stories some time ago that one of the major relief organizations (Red Cross, or Salvation Army, or something similar) kept a large percentage (over 20%) for "administrative" costs. I would like to give to an organization that keeps this to a minimum. I'm just not informed enough to know which one.

Maybe now I'll stop having all those dreams about water.

The freaky thing is the night before this happened I had this really scary dream that my husband, baby, and I were being flooded out of our home. We had to quickly seek higher ground and it was a terrifying dream. It was only the next day I heard about this and eerily made the connection.

Every time, I mean every fuckin' time some other nations gets its "dick knocked in" all eyes turn to the U.S. and suddenly we're the "World's Saviour".

I'd like to know where the fuck was Indonesia or their half-brain fuck prime minister at the time during 9/11? I'll bet some of them were dancing on the streets.

donations through Amazon.com as of 10:00AM PST
Total Collected: $1,872,668.00

My god man chill out. America is doing something and no doubt as the cry...bitching and moaning if you ask me but no one did, goes out from people like you and others who seem to think America can do nothing right the financial commitment will grow eventhough America is going through tough financial times of its own depending on who you talk too. Every time, I mean every fuckin' time some other nations gets its "dick knocked in" all eyes turn to the U.S. and suddenly we're the "World's Saviour".

I have no idea what you're trying to say, but the fact that I would have liked my President to make a few remarks noting the tragedy and promising aid a little sooner than he did does not mean I need to chill out or I think America can do nothing right. We do plenty of things right.

When something of this magnitude occurs, and the President says nothing while on vacation, it just seems rude to me. All he had to do was call the press, tell him to meet him in Texas, give 5 minutes of remarks, and be done with it. This is not challenging, nor is it time consuming. Hell, he could have done it by phone, if need be. I'm very glad he did it today, although I wish it had been sooner.


But I know one thing, unlike the rest of the World on 9/11 and many other tragedies that nailed the U.S., you will NOT SEE any American cheering about the tragedy in those countries. Because inspite of what people like you think America IS a GIVING country full of people who DO give a fuck what happens around the world.

You're NOT the only one who gives a shit ok?

People love to read things into posts here - they're just waiting for something to jump on. No where did I say anyone was cheering this disaster, nor did I imply that America was not providing appropriate aid. All of my comments have been that I think our government has been far too slow to publically address the seriousness of this tragedy.

Americans care. That's obvious just by taking a look at how many people have donated to Amazon. But the fact that our government's response (until today) has been somewhat muted makes it look like the people of this nation care more than our President does. I don't like that.

And I would appreciate it if you would save the profanity-laced and borderline incomprehensible tirades for someone else.

I have no idea what you're trying to say, but the fact that I would have liked my President to make a few remarks noting the tragedy and promising aid a little sooner than he did does not mean I need to chill out or I think America can do nothing right. We do plenty of things right.

When something of this magnitude occurs, and the President says nothing while on vacation, it just seems rude to me. All he had to do was call the press, tell him to meet him in Texas, give 5 minutes of remarks, and be done with it. This is not challenging, nor is it time consuming. Hell, he could have done it by phone, if need be. I'm very glad he did it today, although I wish it had been sooner.



People love to read things into posts here - they're just waiting for something to jump on. No where did I say anyone was cheering this disaster, nor did I imply that America was not providing appropriate aid. All of my comments have been that I think our government has been far too slow to publically address the seriousness of this tragedy.

Americans care. That's obvious just by taking a look at how many people have donated to Amazon. But the fact that our government's response (until today) has been somewhat muted makes it look like the people of this nation care more than our President does. I don't like that.

And I would appreciate it if you would save the profanity-laced and borderline incomprehensible tirades for someone else.


I would appreciate it if you would stop your moaning about "we could've done more". It's silly. More WILL be done in time. When more info comes in more will be done. That's how it usually works.

Did I stutter? You did understand that right?

You know, I remember how much money was diverted for personal gain during 9/11 and sure hope we don't see this again.

Bandoman,

http://www.mercycorps.org/home/

They say 91% and more go to the actual people.

I really don't care if the President had anything to say or not. The fact remains that aid is being given. Why do I, or the world, need to hear G-dub say, "We're devastated about the losses, but hey lookit, we're giving you guys aid. Please like me."

:eek:

"This week's deadly Asian Quake and Tsunami may have been so powerful, that it changed the rate of Earth's rotation. In a Reuters article, a NASA geophysicist theorizes that the quake compacted the Earth enough to speed up the planet's rotation by 3 microseconds. A second article says the quake moved undersea tectonic plates by up to 98 feet, shifting islands near Sumatra out to sea an unknown distance. Also, a USGS team wants images from commercial satellite operators to help pinpoint coastline damage. Lastly, an interesting article from the Australian Spaceguard Survey about the need for a Tsunami warning system in the Indian Ocean. The author comments that tsunami warnings may not help much, as people often flock to the coastline to see the giant waves."
(copied from Slashdot; many links in article available from original post over there)

- David Stein

You know, I remember how much money was diverted for personal gain during 9/11 and sure hope we don't see this again.

Bandoman,

http://www.mercycorps.org/home/

They say 91% and more go to the actual people.

Thanks for the info. :up:

They even post a financial statement (http://www.mercycorps.org/items/180)

http://www.thesalarmy.com/ab/annualreport2003.pdf

Amazing human-interest story:
American diver underwater during catastrophe

(CNN) -- <b>An American woman who was scuba diving with her husband in Thailand as one of Sunday's tsunamis roared overhead said she was oblivious to the disaster until after they surfaced,</b> her mother told CNN on Tuesday.

Faye Wachs, 34, was diving with her husband, Eugene Kim, Sunday morning off Ko Phi Phi Island in Thailand when they noticed the water visibility worsened and felt as though they were being sucked downward, Helen Wachs said.

Their dive master signaled to them to surface, "but we still didn't know what happened," Faye wrote in an e-mail to her mother Tuesday.

The enormity of what was happening while they were scuba diving was not immediately apparent after they surfaced, Helen Wachs said her daughter told her.

"She said she saw a lot of trash in the water. The dive master said it was really rude for people to throw trash. Then they saw large bits of debris and thought there might have been a boat crash," Helen Wachs said.

She said her daughter didn't know what had happened until the dive master got a text message from his wife telling him about the catastrophe.

Soon they saw bodies floating past them, Wachs' mother said in an interview from Oakland, California, where she lives.

Once they returned to shore, the couple did what they could to help, Helen Wachs said.

"I can't describe carrying a moaning person who just saw his girlfriend killed down a hill in the middle of the night," the e-mail said. "I saw more bodies than I care to report. The hotel where we were staying is mostly gone. We lost everything, but our lives."

Faye Wachs said she was impressed by the efforts of the Thai government and the International Committee for the Red Cross, but "she was appalled at the treatment they got" from the U.S. government, her mother said.

At the airport in Bangkok, other governments had set up booths to greet nationals who had been affected and to help repatriate them, she said.

That was not the case with the U.S. government, Wachs told her mother. It took the couple three hours, she said, to find the officials from the American consulate, who were in the VIP lounge.

Because they had lost all their possessions, including their documentation, they had to have new passports issued.

But the U.S. officials demanded payment to take the passport pictures, Helen Wachs said.

The couple had managed to hold on to their ATM card, so they paid for the photos and helped other Americans who did not have any money get their pictures taken and buy food, Helen Wachs said.

"She was really very surprised" that the government did so little to ease their ordeal, she said.

In an e-mailed response from the State Department, the chief of American Citizen Services said the embassy usually meets and greets every flight personally, but acknowledged there had been confusion the first night in setting up the operation.

Still, "anyone needing assistance is guided to our office in the VIP hall, which is the space allocated to us by the airport authority," the e-mail said.

Typically, anyone needing a passport is directed to go to the embassy, it added.

"If people have no funds to get to the embassy, they are offered a $100 emergency loan on the spot," the e-mail said.

Because of the emergency, the embassy has been issuing no-fee emergency passports since the tsunami hit, it said.

But the photo printer was working only sporadically on the day in question, so its use was reserved for those truly in need; others were asked to walk a building away to get their pictures taken, it said.

"Basically, if you had a decent supply of cash, you were asked to go get photos made so we could try to save the camera for desperate cases."

Helen Wachs said her daughter told her they would need "some serious counseling" upon their return to Los Angeles.

Once aboard the plane, Wachs told her mother, the biggest thing they noticed was the absence of the stench of raw sewage that had permeated the air.

"She said the clean smell was amazing."

Wachs, who described herself as "shell-shocked but happy to be coming home," is scheduled to arrive Wednesday morning in Los Angeles, her mother said.

She returns acutely aware that many thousands of others don't have that option.

"The tourists are able to get out, but those there are left with utter destruction," Helen Wachs said.
- David Stein

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20041229/capt.sge.slr42.291204172231.photo02.photo.default-267x383.jpghttp://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20041229/lthumb.xda11512291629.indonesia_quake_vanished_village_xda115.jpg


http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20041229/capt.jak21212291612.indonesia_quake_vanished_village_jak212.jpghttp://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20041229/mdf805959.jpg

Yeah David, that was a page or two back - talk about your close calls :eek:

I would appreciate it if you would stop your moaning about "we could've done more". It's silly. More WILL be done in time. When more info comes in more will be done. That's how it usually works.

Did I stutter? You did understand that right?

I'm not moaning that "we could've done more". Stop reading into my posts. The only time I came close to saying anything like that was my first post, when the only information to come from our government was a White House statement saying we "stand ready." That, quite frankly, was weak. I don't doubt the generousity of this country, nor do I doubt we are always the leader in humanitarian aid when events like this occur.

I don't think it's "silly" to want my leader to lead. My point is that I would like my President to say something when a disaster like this strikes. That's not too much to ask, and I expect it of the person selected to lead this country. I want to know that my President recognizes the seriousness and tragedy of the situation, and I want him to personally assure me and the world that we're going to be doing something about it. That's part of what makes me proud to be an American, and what makes our country the best in the world. What's so difficult to understand about that?

<b>https://secure3.salvationarmy.org/donations.nsf/donate?openform&projectid=IHQ-Asia_Fund&t=US_USC*USE*USS*USW


Surely, we can spare at least $50. Most of us probably spent more than that on entertainment this month.</b>

Sure, I could spare $50, but I'm not going to.

Remember the fiasco over Red Cross donations following 9/11? And what the heck is the Salvation Army doing in Asia anyway? I thought they were supposed to help people here? There is such a thing as having too many charities vying for donations, thus diluting the charities that are really doing something.

This can help you evaluate non-religous charities. Religious charities don't file the tax/business paperwork used to evaluate.

http://www.charitynavigator.org

The freaky thing is the night before this happened I had this really scary dream that my husband, baby, and I were being flooded out of our home. We had to quickly seek higher ground and it was a terrifying dream. It was only the next day I heard about this and eerily made the connection.

I used to have a recurring nightmare about being on a beach and watching the ocean recede way way back, almost to the continental shelf. I would notice the lack of birds or any other sound. The air would feel heavy and hot. And then an enormous wall of water would wash over me as I tried to climb up a cliff to the house at the top.

I've had this dream since I was four years old.

I then found out a friend of mine had the exact same dream, including the house.

We figured we both died in the same tsunami in a previous life.

I've always been a little wary of beaches because of that dream.

I'm not moaning that "we could've done more". Stop reading into my posts. The only time I came close to saying anything like that was my first post, when the only information to come from our government was a White House statement saying we "stand ready." That, quite frankly, was weak. I don't doubt the generousity of this country, nor do I doubt we are always the leader in humanitarian aid when events like this occur.

I don't think it's "silly" to want my leader to lead. My point is that I would like my President to say something when a disaster like this strikes. That's not too much to ask, and I expect it of the person selected to lead this country. I want to know that my President recognizes the seriousness and tragedy of the situation, and I want him to personally assure me and the world that we're going to be doing something about it. That's part of what makes me proud to be an American, and what makes our country the best in the world. What's so difficult to understand about that?


I knew you were picking on Bush but I was trying to stay away from accusing you of that. That's why posted in terms of America as a whole including the Prez.

I guess we disagree on the importance of words. I don't care what Bush has to say about the tragedy. The truth is anything he says will be the typical political bullshit that any Prez would say in his place. What I DO care about is <b>action and getting shit..oops sorry,things done</b> as far as getting the right aid to the right people.

That to me is far more important than some stupid press conference at "The Ranch".


I hope you could follow the above semi- or even fully ignorant post with much understanding....

Sure, I could spare $50, but I'm not going to.

Feel better?


Remember the fiasco over Red Cross donations following 9/11?

Yep. I do. Comparing rotten apples to oranges.



And what the heck is the Salvation Army doing in Asia anyway?

http://www.salvationarmyusa.org/usn/www_usn.nsf/vw-news/9583AFF69D62343680256F780073750D?opendocument




I thought they were supposed to help people here?

They do. See http://www.thesalarmy.com/ab/annualreport2003.pdf



There is such a thing as having too many charities vying for donations, thus diluting the charities that are really doing something.


I was not solicited. I happen to know that this <b>is</b> one of the "charities that are really doing something" and has low overhead. I went looking for the link to donate.


It seemed that there were many people on this thread that expressed the desire to help. This is an opportunity to do something other than cast blame or wring your hands. It doesn't have to be the Salvation Army. There are many similar organization with low overhead.

This can help you evaluate non-religous charities. Religious charities don't file the tax/business paperwork used to evaluate.

http://www.charitynavigator.org

That's a great site, thanks logrus9.

That to me is far more important than some stupid press conference at "The Ranch".Unfortunately to many people it has become more important to hear a leader say "I feel your pain" rather than actually doing something about it.

I knew you were picking on Bush but I was trying to stay away from accusing you of that. That's why posted in terms of America as a whole including the Prez.

I guess we disagree on the importance of words. I don't care what Bush has to say about the tragedy. The truth is anything he says will be the typical political bullshit that any Prez would say in his place. What I DO care about is <b>action and getting shit..oops sorry,things done</b> as far as getting the right aid to the right people.

That to me is far more important than some stupid press conference at "The Ranch".


I hope you could follow the above semi- or even fully ignorant post with much understanding....

I'm not picking on Bush because he's Bush. It's no secret that I don't care for him, but that has nothing to do with my opinions on this issue. I don't care who the President is. I want him to lead. Yes, the actual aid is very important - but don't discount the leadership factor. If Bush had gone on TV and asked the American public to donate funds, do you think that would have had an effect?

Could we divert this thread back to the issue of the tsunami, instead of arguing over the response of the single largest donor of humanitarian aid on earth?

http://www.digitalglobe.com/images/tsunami/srilanka_kalutara_beforeflood_jan1_2004_dg.jpg

http://www.digitalglobe.com/images/tsunami/srilanka_kalutara_flood_dec26_2004_dg.jpg

Sheesh, talk about bikering. Some people can never move on.

Could we divert this thread back to the issue of the tsunami, instead of arguing over the response of the single largest donor of humanitarian aid on earth?


Well you took care of all the dial-up arguers, that's for sure :D

Heard on the radio that the death toll is now over 100,000.

Well, the biggest single-person donation so far seems to be Li Ka-Shing, Hong Kong's (and Asia's) richest man. He's given around US$3.5 million from his own pocket, which is more than many Western countries already.

BTW, how come those satellites "Just happen" to be on that area? Did they belong to those countires? Was somone spying?

That proves it! Someone's government KNEW the Earthquake and the tsunami were gonna happen. Where's Matt Drudge's email addy....:mad:

Well, the biggest single-person donation so far seems to be Li Ka-Shing, Hong Kong's (and Asia's) richest man. He's given around US$3.5 million from his own pocket, which is more than many Western countries already.

So what is that suppose mean? US citizens are stingy?
Calling Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Larry Ellison, or George Soros

Where are all the Dead Animals? (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=573&ncid=757&e=5&u=/nm/20041229/od_nm/wildlife_dc)
Weird story

Giant waves washed floodwaters up to 2 miles inland at Yala National Park in the ravaged southeast, Sri Lanka's biggest wildlife reserve and home to hundreds of wild elephants and several leopards.

"The strange thing is we haven't recorded any dead animals," H.D. Ratnayake, deputy director of the national Wildlife Department, told Reuters on Wednesday.

I thought it was said the animals knew it was coming and got the hell out of there.

sheeeesshh...... talk about stingy

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20041228/wl_mideast_afp/asiaquakeaidsaudi_041228233542

I'm not picking on Bush because he's Bush. It's no secret that I don't care for him, but that has nothing to do with my opinions on this issue. I don't care who the President is. I want him to lead. Yes, the actual aid is very important - but don't discount the leadership factor. If Bush had gone on TV and asked the American public to donate funds, do you think that would have had an effect?

And since the Pres actually did make a statement from Crawford, the only grip left is should it have been sooner. IMHO, I like the fact that the statement was well thought out and he had enough information to answer some questions. To me it rings more true then simply popping out the minute it happens and reading of some meaningless generic statement.

sheeeesshh...... talk about stingy

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20041228/wl_mideast_afp/asiaquakeaidsaudi_041228233542

You know, it is interesting how you measure how much to give. Evidently the whole UN thing got started as the UN compares how much you give to the GNP of the country doing the giving. It seems to me a more accurate and fair way to measure would be the percentage given by a coutry to the total amount given (or needed) by all countries.

One item from a newspaper article said that "hundreds" of fishermen were missing off of the coast of, I believe, India. What I don't understand is that out at see the tidal wave was only a foot or two high, though traveling at a high rate of speed (500 mph?). I wouldn't think that a 1 or 2 foot high wave would knock over a boat, but I'm apparently wrong since so many are missing.

Are there any reports from survivors of fishing boats or other boats that were hit by these small, but fast, waves on the ocean?

One item from a newspaper article said that "hundreds" of fishermen were missing off of the coast of, I believe, India. What I don't understand is that out at see the tidal wave was only a foot or two high, though traveling at a high rate of speed (500 mph?). I wouldn't think that a 1 or 2 foot high wave would knock over a boat, but I'm apparently wrong since so many are missing.

Are there any reports from survivors of fishing boats or other boats that were hit by these small, but fast, waves on the ocean?

I would think if they were small fishing boats they were probably not far off shore and thus they would be effected. I'm not sure how far off shore you would have to be, but based on how bad this is, I'm guess you had to be pretty far out to really "ride it out". How deep the water is would also play a role, as the wave get high as the ocean floor rises up to the land.

Well you took care of all the dial-up arguers, that's for sure :D:lol: :up:

Would a strategically placed nuclear device detonated deep off shore cause a catastrophe like this? Would anyone even know for sure if an attack was made this way?

Do you think any governments are concerned about how to cause/prevent such an attack in the future?

I thought it was said the animals knew it was coming and got the hell out of there.
That was the speculation because nobody can come up with a better idea. I just thought it was pretty amazing that they haven't found any animals, sixth sense or not.

Would a strategically placed nuclear device detonated deep off shore cause a catastrophe like this? Would anyone even know for sure if an attack was made this way?

Do you think any governments are concerned about how to cause/prevent such an attack in the future?

That would be a major waste of a nuclear weapon when it could do a whole lot more damage on land. Though I think you just laid out the plot for this season of 24!

I thought it was said the animals knew it was coming and got the hell out of there.
Well, you'd think the fish would know.

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20041227/capt.xkl10912271236.malaysia_quake_tidal_wave_xkl109.jpg

Would a strategically placed nuclear device detonated deep off shore cause a catastrophe like this?
No, no nukes that big exist. It's questionable whether existing nuclear bomb designs could be made big enough to produce that kind of energy release.

This quake was of 9.0 magnitude on the Richter scale (source: USGS). The amount of energy it released is roughly equivalent to converting 220 pounds of mass into pure energy (e=mc^2 and all that).

That's way, way, way the hell more than any existing nuke can do. It's roughly the amount of energy consumed by the US in a month. It's enough to boil 1300 gallons of water for every man, woman, and child on the planet. The Earth's moment of inertia is thought to have actually been decreased a bit by this blast.

This thing is tied for the 4th largest quake since 1900. It was a monster.

That would be a major waste of a nuclear weapon when it could do a whole lot more damage on land. Though I think you just laid out the plot for this season of 24!

Well if it was done by some sub out in the deep ocean, a government could do this to another country without declaring open war. Say one of those fancy new Chinese subs doing this to New York.

The only man made way this could happen would be to launch a bunch of metal/garbage in to space and then crash it into the ocean.

I thought it was said the animals knew it was coming and got the hell out of there.

Someone forgot to tell this cow.


http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20041228/i/r1192536195.jpg

Duran/Giantrobo, other members would like for the two of you to each take deep breath and just ignore each other for a while.

Would a strategically placed nuclear device detonated deep off shore cause a catastrophe like this? Would anyone even know for sure if an attack was made this way?

Do you think any governments are concerned about how to cause/prevent such an attack in the future?

I would think there would be residual radiation if some one did that.

I vaguely remember a movie or a book with the plot of someone trying place nuclear device in the San Andreas fault in California to trigger a catastrophic earthquake.

I would think there would be residual radiation if some one did that.

I vaguely remember a movie or a book with the plot of someone trying place nuclear device in the San Andreas fault in California to trigger a catastrophic earthquake.


I think that was Superman.

Would a strategically placed nuclear device detonated deep off shore cause a catastrophe like this? Would anyone even know for sure if an attack was made this way?

Do you think any governments are concerned about how to cause/prevent such an attack in the future?

Here we go again with the conspiracy theories someone has been listening to the Art Bell/George Nouri radio show again there are some real wacko's who call into that show and point the finger of blame at Bush for this mess but then again that comes as no suprise to me.

I think that was Superman.
I thought he used his powers for truth, justice, and the American way. :(

as of 5:20PM PST Total Collected: $3,011,242.89

Amazon.com

I think that was Superman.

james bond I think

some of the people on the island said the waves might have been as a high as 60 feet.............

Hate that it is to late for this time, but at least "they" are getting right on it (this is only part of the article).

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/science/12/29/quake.alert.system.reut/index.html

U.N.: Asia tsunami alert system by end 2005

GENEVA, Switzerland (Reuters) -- A tsunami early alert system, which could have saved thousands of lives around the Indian Ocean this week, should be in place in South and Southeast Asia within a year, a U.N. official said on Wednesday.

The technology to detect undersea earthquakes, such as the one off Indonesia that unleashed Sunday's devastating waves, is used elsewhere and could be shared with vulnerable coastal communities in the region, said Salvano Briceno, head of a United Nations' disaster agency.

"I want to see that every coastal country around South Asia and Southeast Asia has at least a basic but effective tsunami warning system in place by this time next year," the director of the U.N.'s International Strategy for Disaster Reduction said in a statement.

Check with your employers -- many of them do employee matching.

I'm going to donate some money that will be matched dollar for dollar to a charity.

Hate that it is to late for this time, but at least "they" are getting right on it (this is only part of the article).

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/science/12/29/quake.alert.system.reut/index.html

U.N.: Asia tsunami alert system by end 2005

GENEVA, Switzerland (Reuters) -- A tsunami early alert system, which could have saved thousands of lives around the Indian Ocean this week, should be in place in South and Southeast Asia within a year, a U.N. official said on Wednesday.

The technology to detect undersea earthquakes, such as the one off Indonesia that unleashed Sunday's devastating waves, is used elsewhere and could be shared with vulnerable coastal communities in the region, said Salvano Briceno, head of a United Nations' disaster agency.

"I want to see that every coastal country around South Asia and Southeast Asia has at least a basic but effective tsunami warning system in place by this time next year," the director of the U.N.'s International Strategy for Disaster Reduction said in a statement.

Question where is the money going to come from? To build and maintain this system? Since tsunami's are not very comon in South and Southeast Asia.

Question where is the money going to come from? To build and maintain this system? Since tsunami's are not very comon in South and Southeast Asia.

Yea, I noticed there was no mention of where the money would come from. However, I would think it would be reasonable to earmark some of the money other countries are sending over for this. In fact I would think a country like Japan who evidently has a great system, might agree to build this system for them rather then donate money for food or whatever. I would think it would be sort of like insurance in that if they have this system in place then countries around the world would not have to pay again or at least as much should this happen again.

james bond I think


A View to a Kill

Some freaky stories are coming out of this. I heard on Good Morning America that there were reports from small children who survived that they were somehow able to breathe underwater. The children couldn't explain it, it was just something they were able to do that helped them survive.
...
I can't wait for Snopes to tackle this one.

http://cache.gettyimages.com/comp/51896117.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=BE815FD6B606093BB0E0F082B9C86ADDA9C30E9B9B114CE8

Where can I get an osama bin laden shirt like that guy is wearing?

I think that was Superman.

yup. the first one. lex bought all this worthless land inland from the fault as his plan was to hit it with a nuclear missile and his land would then become coastal property
but then superman went around the earth and turned back time

Where can I get an osama bin laden shirt like that guy is wearing?

at Terrorist Supporters R Us

Where can I get an osama bin laden shirt like that guy is wearing?

Ebay Indonesia?

Yeah, when I was in Bali, it was disturbing to see so many stores selling those t-shirts. On the flip side, I didn't see any at all in Bangkok. The inhabitant of both places are Buddhists.

http://cache.gettyimages.com/comp/51896117.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=BE815FD6B606093BB0E0F082B9C86ADDA9C30E9B9B114CE8

Isn't that nice - in those locations, people can proudly wear bin laden t-shirts? Aren't you glad we're giving those countries money?

Isn't that nice - in those locations, people can proudly wear bin laden t-shirts? Aren't you glad we're giving those countries money?According to the U.N. the problem is we haven't given them enough money.

According to the U.N. the problem is we haven't given them enough money.

Yeah, I've just finishing reading one of their naggings.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/30/opinion/30thu2.html

This idiot Jan Egeland used to attend UC Berkeley. Pretty much tells the whole story.

Yeah, I've just finishing reading one of their naggings.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/30/opinion/30thu2.htmlThe NY Times?

Ok, let's take all the money that hasn't been spent from what New York got after their "natural" disaster and send it over there. In fact, let's take the total of all the money that we got from every other country for that disaster and send it over to Asia for this latest disaster and call it even.

a another new tsunami warning in india's south coast tonight, thats what my local news is saying, some of the after shocks might have set new tsunami off

The NY Times?

I usually read it with a grain of salt though.

Isn't that nice - in those locations, people can proudly wear bin laden t-shirts? Aren't you glad we're giving those countries money?

You can wear them here too, if you want. It's called freedom of expression.

Not everyone in those countries has one, I'm sure.

You can wear them here too, if you want. It's called freedom of expression.Thank you. It's so ironic when people imply that such rights shouldn't exist, yet those very rights are what they claim to be defending.

I don't see Al Qaeda outpouring their love and money, so hopefully this will maybe show who really cares to Osama sympathizers.

And yes, I've been wondering about more earthquakes. You just don't have a 9.0 and everything goes away.

Thank you. It's so ironic when people imply that such rights shouldn't exist, yet those very rights are what they claim to be defending.

Puh-lease. :lol:

I think you and MoviePage simply missed my point.

Let me give you an example. Not long after 9-11, thousands of Palestinians rushed out to celebrate, burn the Ameircan flag, etc yet we give their government money. Now, I wouldn't dare stand in their way to express their hatred of us - the cost of freedom, but I do think it is clear that we should not be giving them money.

It's just one example. There are a LOT of countries we shouldn't give money (especially taxpayers' money) to.

Yeah, when I was in Bali, it was disturbing to see so many stores selling those t-shirts. On the flip side, I didn't see any at all in Bangkok. The inhabitant of both places are Buddhists.

i don't think Bali has buddhist majority.

anyone on this board signed up to go over for relief work

anyone on this board signed up to go over for relief work
what does it pay... if anything? Not to be a greedy grit-grabber, but I simply can't afford to get there or take the time off work - but I'd really like to help out.

I thought it was said the animals knew it was coming and got the hell out of there.
Perhaps they could use the animals as a rudimentary form of early warning system in the future.

I don't suppose anyone's read/heard anything about East Timor? It's a couple hundred miles north of Australia, so I assume it's too far east to be hit hard, but still -- I got a friend working for the Peace Corps there and I'd like to remove as much doubt as possible. I didn't see East Timor on here:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/12/28/tsunami.deaths/index.html

Would a strategically placed nuclear device detonated deep off shore cause a catastrophe like this? Would anyone even know for sure if an attack was made this way?

Do you think any governments are concerned about how to cause/prevent such an attack in the future?
US conducted some sub-surface nuclear tests (Operation Crossroads, 1946)

http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Usa/Tests/Baker2.jpg
http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Usa/Tests/Baker8.jpg

i don't think Bali has buddhist majority.

Uhmmm...hello - YES THEY DO. Try going there first before you refute someone.

Just watching CNN Headline news this AM and they just reported the death toll is up to 115,100.

No link yet.

Puh-lease. :lol:

I think you and MoviePage simply missed my point.

Let me give you an example. Not long after 9-11, thousands of Palestinians rushed out to celebrate, burn the Ameircan flag, etc yet we give their government money. Now, I wouldn't dare stand in their way to express their hatred of us - the cost of freedom, but I do think it is clear that we should not be giving them money.

It's just one example. There are a LOT of countries we shouldn't give money (especially taxpayers' money) to.

I agree with your point about the Palestinians. I don't concerning this tragedy. This is a special case - thousands die, and thousands more could if they don't get help. Regardless of how some individuals there may feel, I don't think it's wrong to assist them with humanitarian aid.

Just watching CNN Headline news this AM and they just reported the death toll is up to 115,100.

No link yet.

Yeah, I was just talking about this last night with a friend of mine. Last night I took a look at a satellite image of NE Sri Lanka and Aceh, Indonesia, and what I saw, were no roads. There are huge areas which have no roads (some were washed away by the tidal wave, but modern roads were not common in these areas anyway), and rescue teams are just now getting to them, which makes me think we are going to get some pretty dramatic numbers.

This idiot Jan Egeland used to attend UC Berkeley. Pretty much tells the whole story.

-ohbfrank- -rolleyes-

I feel so bad for all of those people........ horrible stuff...... please donate if you can

Apparently people are giving in record numbers. Online donations have been coming in so fast some servers had trouble keeping up. :up:

link to Newsweek story (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6767210/site/newsweek/)

I don't suppose anyone's read/heard anything about East Timor? It's a couple hundred miles north of Australia, so I assume it's too far east to be hit hard, but still -- I got a friend working for the Peace Corps there and I'd like to remove as much doubt as possible. I didn't see East Timor on here:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/12/28/tsunami.deaths/index.html

East Timor was not effected by the quake nor the tsunami. In fact, as dirt poor as the country is, they are donating $50,000 to the relief effort to help Indonesia, which is an incredible show of sympathy considering Indonesia brutally occupied and oppresed East Timor for a quarter century.

http://asia.news.yahoo.com/041230/ap/d879t2r00.html

There's speculation that the administration may include a request for tsunami aid in its next request for money for the Iraq War. Estimates of the amount to be requested for the Iraq War range from $75 to $100 billion. The UN has estimated the relief needed to be about $1 billion. Wouldn't it be an incredible display of the kindness and generosity of the United States if we took just $1 billion of that $100 billion and diverted it to tsunami victims? Is this feasible? Would it improve our image and reputation and make us less hated in this part of the world?

Uhmmm...hello - YES THEY DO. Try going there first before you refute someone.Uhmmm...hello - NO THEY DON'T. The unique Balinese version of Hinduism is predominant. Try Google before you refute someone:
http://www.balivision.com/Article_Resources/ReligionIntroduction.asp

Would it improve our image and reputation and make us less hated in this part of the world?


improve image - probably only to Americans.

improve reputation/less hated - doubtful.

Whoops, you're right. It's an animist form of Hinduism. I just went there 6 months ago, but I stayed in the North, where it's predominantly Buddhist. That's where I got confused. Sorry.

improve image - probably only to Americans.

improve reputation/less hated - doubtful.


I saw tape on FOX 11 news here in LA where this one man in Indonesia was crying and begging for America to come help. I hope he knows we're going to do the best we can. :(

I saw tape of this one man in Indonesia crying and begging for America to com help. I hope he knows we're going to do the best we can.

I'm not saying we shouldn't do anything - I think giving a billion out of the Iraq funding is a good idea.

Best case scenario, IMO: a billion dollars will not improve our image or reputation, but it might keep it from getting worse. Of course a billion dollars won't make some people (including some in the US) happy, when more is going to the war, but you know what they say - damned if you do, damned if you don't (which George should be used to).

I'm not saying we shouldn't do anything - I think giving a billion out of the Iraq funding is a good idea.

Best case scenario, IMO: a billion dollars will not improve our image or reputation, but it might keep it from getting worse. Of course a billion dollars won't make some people (including some in the US) happy, when more is going to the war, but you know what they say - damned if you do, damned if you don't (which George should be used to).


I see your point. My post wasn't directed at you but your post did remind me of that video.

Whoops, you're right. It's an animist form of Hinduism. I just went there 6 months ago, but I stayed in the North, where it's predominantly Buddhist. That's where I got confused. Sorry....sorry, forgot to include the ;)

It's all good, my man.

Just watching CNN Headline news this AM and they just reported the death toll is up to 115,100.

No link yet.

reuters says they are at 120,000 now
http://reuters.myway.com/article/20041230/2004-12-30T135659Z_01_N30180903_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-QUAKE-DC.html

My god, remember how horrific it sounded when 3,800 was first reported?

Wow, this thing is hitting closer & closer.

I just talked to my buddy, and he found out today that a colleague of his drowned during a vacation in Sri Lanka.

And a teacher at my old German high school is reported missing in Phuket. The chance of him surviving is very low.

Needless to say, it's going to be one gloomy New Year.

time for thread title change

-ohbfrank- -rolleyes-

Hey, it's true!

Hey, it's true!

Even if you don't agree with Egeland, it makes no sense to generalize like that,

Even if you don't agree with Egeland, it makes no sense to generalize like that,

UC Berkley IS a generalization.

Even if you don't agree with Egeland, it makes no sense to generalize like that,

Don't mind Myster X....he's under the delusion that california is full of psychotic liberals - literally.

MSNBC just said that the toll in Indonesia alone is now near 100,000 - they just got to one town that was completely devastated, with 15-20,000 more dead there. Utterly and completely amazing.

nearly 80,000 in Indonesia alone.

For those stuck in this thread, I've started one for links to relief donation sites and for people to show their support: http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=402843

It would be great if DVDTalk members could get together and donate a lot of dough.

just donated $75 via Amazon

the average donation seems to be around $60 and so far only 77,264 have donated

just donated $75 via Amazon

the average donation seems to be around $60 and so far only 77,264 have donated

But thats just through Amazon...if it wasnt for DVDTalk or Instapundit, I wouldnt even know if Amazon took donations

I HATE to be the one, but I agree with the previous poster who thinks we'll be seeing MUCH higher numbers once the relief workers and head counters can reach the outlying areas.

I saw tape on FOX 11 news here in LA where this one man in Indonesia was crying and begging for America to come help. I hope he knows we're going to do the best we can. :(

Broke my heart when nbc aired the same man. There was no blame or anger in his voice, just genuine despair and a plea for any help. He mentioned something about how it was too late to save everyone, but they needed help to bury the dead. Just awful. I was hoping someone could tell him to hang in there, that the entire world was gearing up to help. :(

In Thailand they are preparing "Mass Cremations" to be completed in the next two days. They are trying to id as many people as they can, but the health concerns are too great and they need to get rid of the bodies asap. Horrific. I have a feeling these kinds of situations are going to result in many thousands of "missing" numbers in addition to the confirmed deaths.

can't they take pictures of the dead before they burn them? i know it may not lead to a positive id, but it's better than nothing

can't they take pictures of the dead before they burn them? i know it may not lead to a positive id, but it's better than nothing

Not after you've been rotting in the tropical heat for a few days. The heads and bodies are bloated, blackened, discolored and otherwise disfigured from decay. In some parts of Thailand they are taking DNA swabs from the bodies, but in most places, by this point, 4 days out, visual identification may not be so easy.

In Thailand they are preparing "Mass Cremations" to be completed in the next two days. They are trying to id as many people as they can, but the health concerns are too great and they need to get rid of the bodies asap. Horrific. I have a feeling these kinds of situations are going to result in many thousands of "missing" numbers in addition to the confirmed deaths.

Agreed. I wouldn't be surprised to see 10,000 or so die from cholera, etc. over the next month as well. Staggering.

I doubt most of these place can afford to identify each body through DNA.

UC Berkley IS a generalization.

hey, I resemble that remark! :mad:

I doubt most of these place can afford to identify each body through DNA.

The person I just saw speaking from Thailand said that there are teams of forensic pathologists at work there volunteering....still, you'd have to have dna to match the body with, so I'm not sure how that would work.

As a guy just said in regards to the decomposition in the tropical heat: "It's hard to tell caucasion from asian." Ugh.

I'd assume they'd match DNA to families

http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v3/news_lite.php?id=111574

<small>
KUALA LUMPUR, Dec 30 (Bernama) -- The death toll in Acheh, the region worst hit by last Sunday's tsunami, may exceed 400,000 as many affected areas could still not be reached for search and rescue operations, Indonesia's Ambassador to Malaysia Drs H. Rusdihardjo said Thursday.

He said the estimate was based on air surveillance by Indonesian authorities who found no signs of life in places like Meulaboh, Pulau Simeulue and Tapak Tuan while several islands off the west coast of Sumatera had "disappeared".

He said the latest death toll of more than 40,000 in Acheh and northern Sumatera did not take into account the figures from the other areas, especially in the west of the region.

"Aerial surveillance found the town of Meulaboh completely destroyed with only one buiding standing. The building, which belonged to the military, happens to be on a hill," he told reporters after receiving RM1 million in aid for Indonesia's Tsunami Disaster Relief Fund here Thursday.

Rusdihardjo said there were about 150,000 residents in Meulaboh, which was located 150km from the epicentre of the earthquake while Pulau Simeuleu had a population of 76,000.

The contributions were from several corporate giants.

Permodalan Nasional Berhad (PNB), represented by Chairman Tan Sri Ahmad Sarji Abdul Hamid, gave RM200,000; Guthrie, represented by Chief Executive Officer Datuk Abdul Wahab Maskan, gave RM200,000; Golden Hope Plantations Berhad, represented by Group Director for Corporate, Legal and Public Affairs Norlin Abdul Samad, gave RM200,000; Maybank, represented by Head of Public Affairs Wan Norhiyati Ibrahim, gave RM200,000 and Sime Darby Group's Motor Division, represented by Director Yip Jon Khiam, also gave RM200,000.

Ahmad Sarji also handed over a PNB contribution to Utusan's Tsunami Disaster Relief Fund, which was received by Utusan Melayu (Malaysia) Executive Chairman Tan Sri Hashim Makarudin to help Malaysian tsunami victims.

Ambassador Rusdihardjo said a combination of earthquake and tsunami had left 80 to 100 per cent of infrastructure in Acheh province, such as hospitals, health centres, transport and communication networks and homes, destroyed.

"Looking at the scale of destruction, it's difficult to say when the search and rescue operations can be mounted in all affected areas," he said.

He said rescue efforts were hampered by transportation difficulties and lack of fuel.

Rusdihardjo said that at this time international help, especially in the form of medicines, clean water, food and clothing, were desperately needed by Indonesia to aid survivors in Acheh.

"Now we are worried about the outbreak of diseases such as cholera, the work of disposing corpses and the absence of clean water following the contamination of water sources," he said.

It would take years before the situation returned to normal, he said, adding that the Indonesian government was not able to estimate losses caused by the tragedy as yet.

He expressed his gratitude to Malaysia's help although the country itself was hit with 66 lives lost so far and property to the tune of millions of ringgit destroyed.

"We are deeply touched," he said.

Rusdihardjo said Indonesia was also seeking Malaysia's cooperation to mount search and rescue operations from its shores because of the close proximity of the two countries.

-- BERNAMA
</small>

400,000???!?!

Don't mind Myster X....he's under the delusion that california is full of psychotic liberals - literally.

Perhaps you can tell me where I've said that?

I wouldn't be surprised if we see the death toll skyrocket past a half million. Unfortunately, I'm not taking into account the deaths from the aftermath, the disease outbreaks and fights for survival that will occur.

Perhaps you can tell me where I've said that?
http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=401010

http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=401010


key word: San Francisco
where's California?

Words cannot express the magnitude of this tragedy.

I was ashamed of myself when watching the news footage of the waves coming in thinking that it was reminiscent of the clips from Armageddon, Day After Tomorrow or other disaster movies.

key word: San Francisco
where's California?
Where's Berkely? (the origin of this stupid digression....for which I apologize to everyone....)

Wouldn't it be an incredible display of the kindness and generosity of the United States if <b>we</b> took just $1 billion of that $100 billion and diverted it to tsunami victims? Is this feasible?

If that bolded <b>we</b> in your statement refers to Congress, then that's fine. That money is American tax dollars you're talking about. If private individuals want to donate money to a cause they believe in, that's all well and good. But speaking as the devil's advocate, not everyone agrees that this money should be appropriated in that manner.

Would it improve our image and reputation and make us less hated in this part of the world?
Unfortunately, I wouldn't be so optimistic.

Unfortunately the thread title may need updating

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash5.htm

am I invisible or what?!?!?! :P

Unfortunately the thread title may need updating

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash5.htm
I just saw this too. Holy shit...

<small>
Annan: Nations Pledge $500M in Victim Aid

UNITED NATIONS - U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan (news - web sites) said Thursday world governments have pledged $500 million in aid to quake-tsunami disaster victims.

Annan told reporters he was "satisfied" with the response to the disaster after a U.N. relief official earlier called Western nations "stingy" in helping developing countries.

"Let me say that in this particular instance the response has been very good," Annan said in response to a question about the earlier criticisms by U.N. Undersecretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs Jan Egeland on Monday.

"Governments have donated and they have indicated to me that they will do more," Annan said. "I am satisfied with the response so far. The only thing I want to stress is that we are in this for the long term."

He said the disaster is "so huge that not one country or agency can deal with it alone."

On Monday, Egeland said the catastrophe in the Indian Ocean would require the biggest relief effort the world has seen. He added a criticism of what he called low levels of aid to the developing world by rich nations.

"We were more generous when we were less rich, many of the rich countries," he said. "And it is beyond me, why are we so stingy, really. ... Even Christmas time should remind many Western countries at least how rich we have become."

One measure by the Paris-based Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development shows that none of the world's richest countries donated even 1 percent of its gross national income. The highest, as of April, was Norway, at 0.92 percent; the lowest was the United States, at 0.14 percent.
</small>

am I invisible or what?!?!?! :P
The words are too small and it ain't the Drudge Report, apparently. -ptth-

So France, Australia, and Greece are invading? Give me a break.

We all know france wouldn't invade, at the first sign of conflict they'd throw up the white flag. Come on people!

-pedagogue

ps. Thought we neededa tiny bit of comedic relief in this thread.

This is crazy

some of the resorts are already open again and people are acting as if nothing has happened


http://www.theadvertiser.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,11816699%255E911,00.html


IT seems almost impossible.

Just days after the tidal wave disaster, one of the devastated beaches was returning to normal yesterday.

On Sunday, Patong Beach was hit by a wall of water that swept into Phuket, claiming at least 120 lives.

Parasols, chairs, and other beach paraphernalia were swept to the top of the tree-lined beach, dragging helpless holidaymakers with them. It was at this beach that six-month-old Melina Heppell, of Perth, disappeared from her father's arms when the huge wave struck.

For some tourists yesterday, however, the tragedy was becoming a memory, albeit a vivid one, as they made the most of the weather and topped up their tans.

Many in bathers and bikinis, some lounged on sunbeds and others took a dip in the water that had claimed so many lives a few days earlier.

Their fun in the sun came despite warnings that aftershocks could follow the disaster that is likely to have killed as many as 100,000.

As many Westerners waited for news of missing loved ones others arrived to take holidays as usual.

Engineer Paul Cunliffe, from Manchester, arrived on an almost empty flight from Malaysia. Gin and tonic in hand, Mr Cunliffe said he and two friends were booked into a beach-front hotel that had escaped serious damage, and had been assured of a "wonderful holiday".

"Our friends think we're mad. The only risk we face I think is if there's another quake. We love the place that much and we thought we would take the risk," he said.

Further south at Surin Beach, where 10 died, tourists also were out in force.

I don't think it's that crazy. Those places makes money from tourist. How long do you expect them to stay shutdown?

how can people lounge in the sun, when a few miles away thousands may be dying because of this?

I haven't read this entire thread, but the numbers are going up so fast, and with the whining from some about our being stingy, I cannot help but wonder if these governments will drastically inflate or are already drastically inflating their body count in order to get more money from us and the rest of the donors.

how can people lounge in the sun, when a few miles away thousands may be dying because of this?

I couldn't do it and these particular tourists are obviously self-centered bastards, but I bet the resort owners and employees are happy to have any business and sense of normalcy, so for their sake I guess I support this.

I haven't read this entire thread, but the numbers are going up so fast, and with the whining from some about our being stingy, I cannot help but wonder if these governments will drastically inflate or are already drastically inflating their body count in order to get more money from us and the rest of the donors.

-ohbfrank-

you have got to be kidding. This is quickly becoming one of the most lethal disasters in recorded history - as in EVER. It is horrifically bad....

Once again, no one, not Egeland or anyone else, singled us out for being stingy. NO ONE. He made a single comment about the western world in general that was taken and run with by the media and construed into something it wasn't - mainly by people like yourself you love to bring up how jealous everyone is of us and how quick the world is to bash the U.S. because we're so awesome.

This is crazy

some of the resorts are already open again and people are acting as if nothing has happened


http://www.theadvertiser.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,11816699%255E911,00.html
Well, these are areas that were least affected after all. 120 dead is nothing compared to hundreds of thousands elsewhere. I don't suppose there's any reason they should stay closed if they weren't damaged.

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20041230/i/r2505504937.jpg
Aerial view of people sunbathing next to Patong beach, Thailand, four days after a tsunami hit the area, on December 30, 2004. One of the most powerful earthquakes in history hit Asia over the weekend, unleashing a series of tidal waves which devastated coastal areas of Sri Lanka, India, Indonesia and tourist isles in Thailand, killing thousands of people. REUTERS/Luis Enrique Ascui

Some before and after photos, courtesy of digitalglobe.com (http://www.digitalglobe.com/press/images_media.shtml), (large pics available at site):

Before:

http://img88.exs.cx/img88/5520/bandaacehdebrisbeforejune23200.jpg

After:

http://img88.exs.cx/img88/6150/bandaacehdebrisdec282004dg9nq.jpg


Before:

http://img88.exs.cx/img88/9878/bandaacehfloodbeforejune232004.jpg

After:

http://img88.exs.cx/img88/6003/bandaacehflooddec282004dg6ym.jpg


Before:

http://img88.exs.cx/img88/8762/bandaacehnorthernshorejune2320.jpg

After:

http://img88.exs.cx/img88/1975/bandaacehnorthernshoredec28200.jpg


Before:

http://img88.exs.cx/img88/4718/bandaacehshorelinebeforejune23.jpg

After:

http://img88.exs.cx/img88/6089/bandaacehshorelinemissingdec28.jpg

I guess it's true since the NY Slimes mentioned it. I sure miss the days of Jayson Blair working for the times. It was probably better written with him around.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/12/30/quake.usa.editorial.reut/index.html

NY Times calls U.S. aid for tsunami 'miserly'

NEW YORK (Reuters) -- The promised U.S. relief for South Asia's tsunami crisis is "miserly," and a U.N. official who criticized Western nations for not giving enough aid to the needy was "right on target," The New York Times said in an editorial Thursday.

The senior U.N. relief official who chided wealthy Western nations for being "stingy" with their aid was not "misguided and ill informed," as President Bush said on Wednesday, the newspaper wrote.

U.N. emergency relief coordinator Jan Egeland made the statement in reference to general aid supplied by the wealthy countries, but later praised the rapid international response to the tsunami that hit 12 countries Sunday.

The Times said: "We beg to differ [with Bush]. Mr. Egeland was right on target."

"But the $35 million remains a miserly drop in the bucket, and is in keeping with the pitiful amount of the United States budget that we allocate for nonmilitary foreign aid.

The Times chided Bush for waiting until Wednesday to express his sympathy to leaders of India, Sri Lanka, Thailand and Indonesia for Sunday's disaster that has left an estimated 120,000 people dead and millions homeless. The president announced the increase in U.S. aid to $35 million on Wednesday, saying it was "only the beginning."

The Times added that it hoped Secretary of State Colin Powell was embarrassed to announce "the initial measly aid offer" of $15 million. "That's less than half of what Republicans plan to spend on the Bush inaugural festivities" in January.

Although many Americans believe the United States spends a great deal on foreign aid, the amount is less than one quarter of 1 percent of its budget, the newspaper noted. U.S. spending on development aid in 2003 was $16.2 billion, less than the $37.1 billion from the European Union.

The newspaper also urged Bush to make good on U.S. relief pledges and noted that U.S. relief for the Bam, Iran earthquake a year ago still has not been delivered.

I couldn't do it and these particular tourists are obviously self-centered bastards, but I bet the resort owners and employees are happy to have any business and sense of normalcy, so for their sake I guess I support this.

It sickens me that these people can lounge in the sun and continue with their vacation when they could be volunteering with the aid effort.

Some before and after photos, courtesy of digitalglobe.com (http://www.digitalglobe.com/press/images_media.shtml), (large pics available at site):

Before:

http://img88.exs.cx/img88/5520/bandaacehdebrisbeforejune23200.jpg

After:

http://img88.exs.cx/img88/6150/bandaacehdebrisdec282004dg9nq.jpg


Before:

http://img88.exs.cx/img88/9878/bandaacehfloodbeforejune232004.jpg

After:

http://img88.exs.cx/img88/6003/bandaacehflooddec282004dg6ym.jpg


Before:

http://img88.exs.cx/img88/8762/bandaacehnorthernshorejune2320.jpg

After:

http://img88.exs.cx/img88/1975/bandaacehnorthernshoredec28200.jpg


Before: