I am fucking PISSED off. I knew as I started reading it that Ted wasn't going to make it out alive. Add to that fact that EVERY. F'N. HERO. in that book PISSED ME OFF ['cept Wonder Woman. Who, by the way, should be played by Monica Bellucci]. It's weird. Usually when I get my stack of new books, i'll flip through and glance at stuff. Not this time. I knew it was going to happen, dammit. And it's not like i'm a MEGA Charleston character fan, but I did collect his DC series and I was there when they relaunched the JL with him and Booster. I'm pissed.
Oh, and this wasn't the only book that pissed me off. So did Batman.
Jackskeleton
03-31-05, 04:19 PM
I felt like a beaten lover. I'm digging Geoff Johns work. All of it, I didn't give a shit about JSA, and I'm guessing no one under 30 did either till he started writing it. But I loved DC COUNTDOWN. This was the event I was excited and sad about all at the same time.
I thought that it showed what it's like to be a B-lister in the DC Universe and it set up the events for all the miniseries and the lead up to Infinite Crisis. I really am amazed they pulled it off so well written. So much info and so much behind the scenes feeling in the book and all for a Buck! :p
I'm a big blue beetle fan. I loved the old JLA/JLI days when Booster and Beetle were the comedy relief and while this comic on the exterior seems to shit on all those Giffen years, it really doesn't. It make Identity Crisis make a lot of sense. I'm guessing that Max used his power of control on Jean to kick the hero's down a peg since Sue is part of that whole past. There was some continuity flubs, but over all it worked out so well.
The death of Blue was something that I felt was one of the greatest hero deaths ever. He didn't go out like a punk bitch. He went out telling Max off and they did leave some possibilities for him to come back with the scarab
Booster knew what was going down. Notice when ted shows him the scarab he starts the 20 questions and has that look on his face. That's why he jumped on the computer. With the interview I posted below, it shows that Booster Gold will be taking this personally and taking center stage on the events. Maybe he takes down Max himself. I'm hoping that they do bring back Blue as this story really showed how good Blue Beetle could be if he has a decent writer on him. Even more like the everyday man than Batman. Since folks choose Batman over Superman half the time simply because Batman is a human.
Here's what was written down in Wizard, which does contain a lot of info about Countdown aswell as the lead up with Batman
I'm very excited about the upcoming year at DC. I ran into Dan DiDo at the Wizard Con in LA two weekends ago and told him how much I enjoyed what DC has done in the past year. He said "Really? Because we're only getting started. It's going to be a LOT of fun this year."
It's a good year to read comics with DC building towards their Infinite Crisis and Morrison's Seven Soldiers. I'm even (half) excited about Marvel's House of M....but the jury's still out on that one.
Andrew
Josh-da-man
03-31-05, 09:03 PM
Not particularly interested in this, but I did get a decent laugh out of this review (http://www.comicscommunity.com/boards/pop/?read=28386) of the book.
boredsilly
03-31-05, 10:15 PM
So I read it and enjoyed it for what it was. I like giant conspiracies and all that jazz so this book is right up my alley. However I don't think the hero's rang true in this book. Like the reviewer over at thefourthrail.com said, I doubt the entire hero community would turn there back on Blue Beetle after attempts on his life were made. After all wasn't Identity Crisis whole point to show how close knit the dc hero's are? How they look out for their own? Every one except for Diana came off reeeeeeeeeeeeeally cold. Also there needs to be a Booster Gold/Blue Beetle ongoing team up book. Maybe that will happen when he comes back from the dead.
I'm looking forward the the mini's that are coming out of this (save for the Rann/Than was...cause whatever). On a side note: over the last 2 years Deathstroke has become one of my favorite characters so I'm UBER jazzed for the mini with him and the other baddies.
Jackskeleton
04-01-05, 04:19 AM
After all wasn't Identity Crisis whole point to show how close knit the dc hero's are? How they look out for their own?
Yeah, that's why batman had a mind wipe...
IC showed that the heros can get knocked down a peg and that there biggest weakness is the secret life they lead and how it can get comprimised. The closeness has been an issue for them for a long time. Hell, even Virtue Vice had the heros get together and eat thanksgiving diner together. But this is just showing that the B-listers do get the shaft.
Countdown did highlight something, that everyone is busy on some aspect. where are the magic users? The war in space also takes the attention of a lot of folks. Batman is dealing with his own team members mindwiping him. This is countdown to Infinite crisis because there will be a crisis on all fronts.
boredsilly
04-01-05, 03:22 PM
Yeah, that's why batman had a mind wipe...
IC showed that the heros can get knocked down a peg and that there biggest weakness is the secret life they lead and how it can get comprimised. The closeness has been an issue for them for a long time. Hell, even Virtue Vice had the heros get together and eat thanksgiving diner together. But this is just showing that the B-listers do get the shaft.
Countdown did highlight something, that everyone is busy on some aspect. where are the magic users? The war in space also takes the attention of a lot of folks. Batman is dealing with his own team members mindwiping him. This is countdown to Infinite crisis because there will be a crisis on all fronts.
Stupid Jack shooting holes in my argument ::pelts you with stones::. Nah, you've got a point...it's just the way Blue was treated seemed very wrong. I'm not terribly familiar with him (actually my first exposure to him was Formerly known as the Justice League) but I always got the sense that when someone was in trouble in DC and went for help, they got it. That part is just going to bother me. The book was cool though and Blue showed a lot of potential to head up his own book.
Jackskeleton
04-01-05, 04:27 PM
showed a lot of potential to head up his own book
Now that was a bad pun. :p Man, I really wish there was a decently written Booster and Beetle title. Formerly Known as Justice League and I can't believe it's not Justice league are both creepy as all hell to read now. Even more creepier than CBINJL was after IC.
slop101
04-01-05, 06:25 PM
I'm really bummed about Beetle. I'm more of a Marvel fan than DC, but I like DC's characters better (if that makes any sense), and BB was one of my favorites. But at least he's sorta still around in JLA Classified.
Superboy
04-01-05, 10:49 PM
I read reviews (notably The Fourth Rail's) that convinced me not to read it. But hey, it was only a buck, and to tell you the truth, I want it back because I didn't enjoy a single minute of it.
Most of the internal monologue is almost completely contradictory to the way that Blue Beetle has been characterized in the past as well as the way his interactions with the DCU has gone. FIRST of all, the whole "Blue Beetle and Booster Gold are total jokes" storyline is about as old as "J'onn the Traitor" storylines. Second, Superman would NEVER brush someone off like that, especially Blue Beetle. Go back and read some late 80s early 90s JLA and you'll be amazed at how, gee, Superman and Blue Beetle treat each other like Professionals. Sure he's a comic - but when the going gets rough, he's not afraid to throw himself in front of the fray. Third, every scene with Booster Gold is way off. Booster sneaking money behind Beetle's back? he wouldn't even need to ask for it. I'm so sick of the "heroes not trusting each other" theme that's been running through DC for the past decade, and it doesn't work here at all given the history of these characters. "Take care of your self Han - I mean Booster, it's what you're best at". Obviously the writers have absolutely no respect for continuity. Costume change? whatever. New powers out of nowhere and then quickly forgotten? fine. But don't change friendships over night. Fourth, i'm really getting tired of writers trying to be like all the cool kids on the block and making Batman a Frank-Miller-esque (although they completely missed the point of DKR) badass. It's old, it's tiresome, and the whole OMEC storyline has a pretty obvious direction that's been done way too many times in recent memory for it to have any real impact or value I mean c'mon, it's obvious that Batman has his own personal spy satellite/super-weapon in case he ever thought that the DCU heroes (or villains, for that matter) would get out of hand. You know what would be cool though? if a trusted member of the JLA made countermeasures against hereos and, to everyone's shock, had the weapon turned against the heroes! and then he is the only one that can save them. Yeah, and in the aftermath, everyone is trusting each other a little less, and maybe they vote him out of the League, creating discord and strife. Holy shit, this is gold! What about "FULL DISCLOSURE AT ALL TIMES" according to what happened in JLA? oh yeah, they all lied. They're all backstabbing bastards who can't trust each other. Man the DCU is getting to be a dark place. What next, Hal Jordan going crazy and killing off the entire Green Lantern Corps?
There's another GLARING oversight that the writers obviously haven't considered. Geoff Johns is the biggest hypocrite in the entire world. The man that brings sensible modern writing to silver-age themes in Flash, JSA, and Teen Titans is taking a totally wrong direction here. I thought the return of Green Lantern (and running with that as well, the return of Green Arrow, the "rebirth" of Superman, reformation of the top-heavy JLA, and reorganization of the Teen Titans) was supposed to make the DCU a brighter place, and put an end to the tiresome "heroes going crazy for no explainable reason whatsoever other than shock value". But here we are, seeing someone that only long-time readers will really be familiar with, acting completely contrary to the way that long-time readers will be familiar with.
Lastly, the death scene...I have to say, that in a world where someone like Blue Beetle can stand up to Doomsday and survive, he shouldn't have gone down as easy as he did.
Sierra Disc
04-02-05, 09:22 PM
Didn't like it at all. Not sure why DC thinks superhero snuff comics are the way to go these days, I didn't like the "grim and gritty" phase of the 1990s much and don't like this much now. I won't be picking up the zillion miniseries DC is planning to follow this up with.
Giantrobo
04-03-05, 12:26 PM
I almost picked this up last week. I guess I'll go ahead and try to keep up.
Say, I read "Identity Crisis" and I'm aware of Bat's Mind wipe. However, I'm confused about when he learned about it. I got the impression he figured it out not long after it happened and has been quiet on the issue. But then again I'm hearing people say things that imply he didn't figure it out until "Identity C".
Which is it?
And when did all the criminals figure it out? I remember Dr Light figuring it out...did he get pissed and go tell the others? I can't remember....
Giantrobo
04-03-05, 12:39 PM
Didn't like it at all. Not sure why DC thinks superhero snuff comics are the way to go these days, I didn't like the "grim and gritty" phase of the 1990s much and don't like this much now. I won't be picking up the zillion miniseries DC is planning to follow this up with.
I think part of it has to do with how people perceive DC Heroes. I’ve heard many say that the reason they tend to like Marvel over DC is because DC heroes are <i>too</i> powerful and “Godlike” where Marvel heroes are more “down to earth” and relatable.
So I wonder if this thinking doesn’t get into the minds of writers. Do they feel the need to knock ‘em down a peg by killing them every few years?
Jackskeleton
04-03-05, 10:55 PM
well, they aren't killing the top names.... yet. But they are knocking them down and making them more human by attacking those near them. Sue, Beetle, targeting clarks closest relations and so forth. Now their secret identity is no longer secret. It does make them more human to face these sorts of problems.
Superboy
04-04-05, 04:55 AM
well, they aren't killing the top names.... yet. But they are knocking them down and making them more human by attacking those near them. Sue, Beetle, targeting clarks closest relations and so forth. Now their secret identity is no longer secret. It does make them more human to face these sorts of problems.
It's interesting that they're making the DCU more "human" by killing off heroes and twisting an era that really defines the human side of DC. Just MHO.
JasonF
04-04-05, 10:32 AM
Not particularly interested in this, but I did get a decent laugh out of this review (http://www.comicscommunity.com/boards/pop/?read=28386) of the book.
I liked this one (http://gutterninja.com/archives/2005/04/01/fair-use/).
It's become increasingly clear that Marvel and DC aren't, for the most part, interested in selling comic books to me. I still buy some of their stuff -- Fabien Nicieza's Thunderbolts is old-school superhero fun, and DC is publishing a Giffen/DeMateis <s>JLI</s> Super Buddies story even as they shit all over those characters. But more and more of their output -- from Identity Crisis to Avengers Disassembled to Infinite Crisis -- seem to be about taking established and cherished characters and torturing them. Thanks anyway, but I don't really want to see someone raped and mutilitaed (figuratively or literally), particularly not someone I've been "sharing adventures" with for most of my life.
areacode212
04-04-05, 03:48 PM
I still have no intention of picking this up, especially after reading Paul O'Brien's review (http://thexaxis.com/misc/dccountdown1.htm) of it. I've generally given up on most superhero comics, so stuff like this makes me glad I'm not spending any more money on them.
But they are knocking them down and making them more human by attacking those near them. Sue, Beetle, targeting clarks closest relations and so forth. Now their secret identity is no longer secret. It does make them more human to face these sorts of problems.
But this doesn't necessarily make them more "human" or down-to-earth, the way Marvel's characters were. Characters like Spider-Man or the FF all had problems that people could relate to (unpopularity, not being able to pay the rent, family problems, etc.). In IC, these are still basically "superhero" problems. I can't remember the last time my wife/girlfriend was killed by my co-worker's (insane) wife, who then framed & paid off a bunch of other guys in a big conspiracy. To me, Elongated Man was more "human" when he was bantering & trading barbs with his wife than when he was sobbing and talking to himself.
All that said, I'm curious as to how this will tie into Crisis on Infinite Earths. I think I'll read all this in the store, just to keep up.
Jackskeleton
04-04-05, 09:22 PM
It's only a buck.
JasonF
04-05-05, 12:31 AM
It's only a buck.
A buck's worth of shit is still shit. I don't need to pay a dollar to see all the A-list superheroes tell Blue Beetle that he's not cool enough to hang out with them -- have your people call my people when you get your own miniseries and maybe we'll arrange a guest appearance -- only to watch him be shot in the head by a thoroughly out-of-character villain in the service of a complete revamp of a concept that wasn't broken to begin with.
Rogue588
04-05-05, 01:02 AM
I think part of it has to do with how people perceive DC Heroes. I’ve heard many say that the reason they tend to like Marvel over DC is because DC heroes are <i>too</i> powerful and “Godlike” where Marvel heroes are more “down to earth” and relatable.
So I wonder if this thinking doesn’t get into the minds of writers. Do they feel the need to knock ‘em down a peg by killing them every few years?OOOOO yes. DC, PLEASE make your heroes more like Marvel. Better yet, hire Bendis to write every. single. title. Or even BETTER, come up with an ULTIMATE universe where you could create characters that are the....wait for it...COMPLETE OPPOSITE of the Original MU. Gwen Stacy's a goody goody in the OMU? Make her a punky slut in the UU! Nick Fury's White in the OMU? Make him Black in the UU! That'd be SO KOOOOOOOL!!11!!!111.
Not being sarcastic with you 'robo, i've heard the "inaccessable" comments about DC before..
Personally, I like Johns. Winick, OTOH, is spotty at best. And Rucka, well, i've enjoyed what Batwork i've come across, but out of the three, i'd pick Johns. His Teen Titans is great, his JSA is just as good and the Flash has been excellent.
I truly don't understand the problems people have with this book. I'd love to be as witty and snarky as the writer of the "review" that Josh linked us to, but since I can't, I won't bother.
Beetle was never, ever taken seriously. Teaming up with Booster really didn't help either. There's a difference between being a "second-stringer" and being a "second-stringer" that acts the fool. Beetle [and Booster] were obviously the latter. But I guess the critic in Josh's review was too busy fantasizing about a Hal Jordan blowjob. Perhaps I should end my comments by throwing out some obscure Independent title that no one's heard about in an effort to add another layer of "coolness".
Jackskeleton
04-05-05, 06:17 AM
Hey, atleast Booster will be stepping up out of all this. :p I love Giffen's run, I still enjoy it even after all this.
Chew
04-05-05, 07:32 AM
I hate what they're doing to all the "fun" characters. The Giffen Beetle/Booster JLA stories are a great read, filled with light moments and laughs. It makes reading future issues of the current run of JLA Classified a whole different experience. :(
Jackskeleton
04-06-05, 06:08 AM
I think reading Classified as it is with the discussion about Sue being preggo is bad enough as it is.
Chew
04-06-05, 07:11 AM
Monday night I read Countdown, last night was JLA Classified #5. Any laughs were muted. Much moreso than I was dreading in the above post. :( Especially any scene with Max.
JasonF
04-06-05, 12:45 PM
Beetle was never, ever taken seriously. Teaming up with Booster really didn't help either. There's a difference between being a "second-stringer" and being a "second-stringer" that acts the fool. Beetle [and Booster] were obviously the latter.
Beetle and Booster were most certainly taken seriously in a variety of books -- in their mid-80s solo serieses; in Crisis on Infinite Earths; in crossovers with Superman; in the Justice League post-Giffen/DeMatteis. If you're only familiar with the Giffen/DeMatteis series, then you might think they are fools, but then again, if you are only familiar with Casino Royale, you might think James Bond was a fool.
Oh, the Irony!!!
http://img197.exs.cx/img197/8798/jla35pg5xx.jpg
Sierra Disc
04-09-05, 07:26 PM
Ewww, creepy.
Chew
04-11-05, 07:31 AM
Where's that panel from?
JasonF
04-11-05, 01:39 PM
Where's that panel from?
Looks like Adam Hughes art from Justice League America, during the Kooey Kooey Kooey storyline (Booster and Beetle try to set up a resort called "Club JLI," but it turns out the island they've picked for their resort is alive). My guess is JLA #35.
Giantrobo
04-13-05, 02:07 AM
I'm also reading JL Classified, which btw has a storyline that's friggin hilarious, and the after reading Countdown seeing Max being funny is weird. I think someone mentioned this same feeling earlier.
majorjoe23
04-13-05, 01:16 PM
My review of Countdown:
It was like Watchmen and Kingdom Come rolled into one, then everything that was wonderful about those comics was hacked out and the whole thing was filtered through the pen of a retarded monkey.
I had been waiting for a collected edition of Identity Crisis, but I don't think I'll bother now. I'll stick with Grant Morisson's Seven Soldiers series, a few other titles and stay clear of most DC stuff.
Jackskeleton
04-13-05, 11:17 PM
Well, Countdown actually adds a twist to the outcome of Identity Crisis that many people said was lacking or missing. The whole reasoning behind why Jean did it. Now that we see that the Giffen run of JLA/JLI is a major device here. Sue, another big player in Giffen's run was the victim of Jean, who may very well end up being mind controlled by Max to kill sue. If that comes to past, it will really put more into the reason behind IC and put it as a small piece in a large puzzle.
Flynn
04-13-05, 11:38 PM
I actually enjoyed this comic immensely. I've also always love Blue Beetle. Much in the same way I always loved Hawkeye from the Avengers (whom has been dealt a death blow recently). It's hard to see all these heroes bite it, but if the storyline is advanced in a positive way, why not?
Jackskeleton
04-14-05, 12:26 AM
I agree. Not to mention that this death actually brings up all the b-listers. In IC, you had the focus only on those b listers the whole way through, you just got to see batman or superman in there in minor roles besides the obvious mindwipe for bats.
In this, the outcome will be a big push for Booster Gold and I'm glad for it.
JasonF
04-14-05, 10:05 AM
Well, Countdown actually adds a twist to the outcome of Identity Crisis that many people said was lacking or missing. The whole reasoning behind why Jean did it. Now that we see that the Giffen run of JLA/JLI is a major device here. Sue, another big player in Giffen's run was the victim of Jean, who may very well end up being mind controlled by Max to kill sue. If that comes to past, it will really put more into the reason behind IC and put it as a small piece in a large puzzle.
Wasn't Identity Crisis sold as a self-contained murder mystery that readers could solve if they picked up on the right clues?
majorjoe23
04-14-05, 10:53 AM
Nothing in comics is self-contained if there is money to be made off it.
Jackskeleton
04-15-05, 02:14 AM
Also, IC was part of the three part puzzle, well now they are saying that, that was planned out two years ago according to that article on the first page of the thread. So I would say if that's true, they can easily fit it in.
Though if you look back at IC, you can see that it is self contained enough that readers could solve it because the clues were there. Jean's hands are the ones that ties her own mouth piece.
Countdown or Crisis, tossing in how Max was behind that also would just be a twist in the already smaller piece of a puzzle in the DCU.
Giantrobo
04-15-05, 02:32 AM
Nothing in comics is self-contained if there is money to be made off it.
I know and for the casual reader this crossover shit gets to be a pain.
Jackskeleton
04-15-05, 03:09 AM
I dunno how bad this one will be. Yeah, you can pick up all the Johns titles (which you should already, he's my favorite dc writer) and pick up the quick hints and winks towards the other issues, but each title is pretty self contained.
The Rann/Thanagar war is going to be its own mini, villians united will be self contained and day of vengence will also be self contained into their own mini's. Some other titles will cross over, but compared to what Marvel does with House of M or other big huge cross overs, you need to buy all the titles to even get some what of an idea of what is going on.
Giantrobo
04-15-05, 06:46 AM
That's encouraging. :up:
MrPink
04-19-05, 02:08 PM
So did I miss something in the regular issues that dealt with Beetle and Booster being outed by the league? I am not a regular reader of comics but I did read Identity Crisis.
Buy: