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View Full Version : Question on Motion blur and New TV's...and some other questions


KillerQ
03-27-05, 08:53 PM
Hey all,

I am thinking about purchasing an HDTV this week. I am particularly fond of this one from bestbuy.com "Mitsubishi - 65" Widescreen HD-Ready Rear-Projection TV WS-65315"

Anyhow -- I am worried the most about motion blur. Now I believe that LCD suffers the most, and DLP has some for m of motion blur at imes -- but there's really no motion blur issue with crt tv's is there?

My main question is what dvd's should I take to bestbuy to test on the tv's to check for major problems right off the bat (blur, etc). You can pick from the list I have at the "My DVDs" link in my signature below

I am doing research on my own as well -- but i thought that you may know of a few scenes in DVD's that will show me the pros/faults of the tv's i play the dvd on....

Also, i thought i remember reading somewhere that tv's with 1080i resolution do not support pregressive scan dvd players, and in turn, you get a worse dvd picture with blurring. And that a TV with 720P will utilize the progressive scan better....

Thank you so much,

Matt

Spiky
03-27-05, 09:43 PM
The stuff about 1080i not supporting progressive is crap. Most of those TVs (generally CRTs) do both 1080i and 480p natively, so they support progressive DVD directly. Meanwhile, the 720p TVs generally ONLY do 720p, so they have to convert the signal again to get it onscreen. Kinda the opposite of what you've heard.

Your link did not work. But I've noticed the first generation LCDs were bad for motion blur, especially the Grand Wegas and Aquos models. They are all getting better as they've raised the refresh rate, I believe.

If you think you can figure it out on the BB floor, I'm impressed. No offense, but that isn't really the place to scan for video quality. If you want to go totally nuts, bring Avia or similar, calibrate each set and see them for real. Bring a Pixar film or Moulin Rouge or Fifth Element for the vivid colors to see how they do. And something like Dark City for black level, but that's an inherent problem for LCD, so don't expect too much. A bit over the top, I know, but simply comparing with whatever settings BB has or has not set on the floor is really no way to compare.

KillerQ
03-27-05, 11:07 PM
Hello...

Thanks for the info -- if you look at my orig post -- you'll see i fixed the links by simply giving the model number of the TV to plug into the best buy.com site, and my dvd collection is linked to in my signature below. Yea, i know the video settings are sketchy -- especially when they are on the floor at best buy. I just wasn't sure if there is a DVD i could have played that will clearly say "nope, see how this looks, all blurry and stuff, this tv won't cut it...". Let the hunt begin...

Thanks,

Matt!

Spiky
03-28-05, 02:39 AM
Mits makes great CRT RPTVs. But to get the most out of one of these, you really need to tweak it. The best would be an ISF calibration from one of the best guys you can find. If I were going to buy a set like this, I'd just factor in $500 more for the ISF calibration and consider that part of the purchase price for comparison to other technologies. But that's me.

You definitely won't get much from comparing CRTs at BB. The calibration needed for them is just not going to happen, and they are never good at greyscale out of the box. LCD and DLP tend to be a bit better, although any set really needs the greyscale calibration (major part of ISF) to really look its best. And the ambient light will throw off the pic, anyway. All these Mits sets have 1080i and 480p as native resolutions. Some other brands of CRTs, like Toshiba, have 1080i/540p instead, which means the TV always has to convert your DVD output.

The Home Theater Spot is huge for CRT-RPTV info. I'd go there, you could probably even find info on this exact model in their Mits forum.

chipmac
03-28-05, 02:42 AM
The stuff about 1080i not supporting progressive is crap. Most of those TVs (generally CRTs) do both 1080i and 480p natively, so they support progressive DVD directly. Meanwhile, the 720p TVs generally ONLY do 720p, so they have to convert the signal again to get it onscreen. Kinda the opposite of what you've heard.

Your link did not work. But I've noticed the first generation LCDs were bad for motion blur, especially the Grand Wegas and Aquos models. They are all getting better as they've raised the refresh rate, I believe.

If you think you can figure it out on the BB floor, I'm impressed. No offense, but that isn't really the place to scan for video quality. If you want to go totally nuts, bring Avia or similar, calibrate each set and see them for real. Bring a Pixar film or Moulin Rouge or Fifth Element for the vivid colors to see how they do. And something like Dark City for black level, but that's an inherent problem for LCD, so don't expect too much. A bit over the top, I know, but simply comparing with whatever settings BB has or has not set on the floor is really no way to compare.

Not all HDTVs display both 1080i and 480p natively. I believe Mitsubishi is that last to offer a CRT based RPTV that displays 480p natively. Pioneer also did until they stopped making CRT based RPTVs. Hitachi, Toshiba, Sony, Panasonic and all of the rest take a 480p signal and convert it to 540p or 1080i for display. So while they will accept a 480p signal it will be converted which can create artifacts in the image. In some cases these owners felt that feeding the TV a 480i signal created less artifacts than a 480p signal that was fed to it.

LCD, DLP, LCOS and plasma are all fixed pixel displays that can be made to either display 480p, 720p or 1080p depending on which model you buy. Each will accept all of these signal types including 480i but will only display the one scan rate they were built for.

You are correct though that judging PQ on the showroom floor is pretty much pointless. Unless they are a high end shop that has calibrated their demo models or if they let you adjust them with Avia or DVE but that's only good for DVDs you really can't judge how it will look in your home. Honestly though any brand can be made to look great but some are better out of the box. Shop on price, reliability, features and support and then get it calibrated and you'll be happy with any of them really.

And Killer that model is one you won't be disappointed in so if you can get it at around $2000 you're in. There's no motion blur except any that is introduced by the DVD player you have. If you haven't already done so head over to HomeTheaterSpot.com where they have a pretty large Mits forum and you'll see plenty of happy owners of this model.

Spiky
03-28-05, 02:46 AM
LCD, DLP, LCOS and plasma are all fixed pixel displays that can be made to either display 480p, 720p or 1080p depending on which model you buy. Each will accept all of these signal types including 480i but will only display the one scan rate they were built for.

Just to clarify, this confused me for a minute. They do NOT display ANY of these resolutions, just their native. (at least all the ones I've seen) Just like the 540p CRTs, they will do a conversion to anything but their native res. Different models have different native res so you need to read carefully, I think that's what Chip is saying, here.

Some are oddball resolutions, too. These are generally front projection, though, and best mated to an HTPC.

chipmac
03-28-05, 03:15 AM
You're right Spiky but I didn't want to cloud the issue any further. Fixed pixel displays are built to display only one resolution. That can be 480p, 720p or 1080p or some models will use an odd variation of these for their native scan rate and scale any signal it receives to what it was built to display. Most people ignore these slight variations though and just say that a TV that has a native scan rate of 748p is 720p since that is the closest standard resolution to it's native scan rate.