Backlash of the Schiavo case

[LurkerDan]

Just wondering what people feel about this. Seems to me like Bush and the Republican party are hurting themselves here. Maybe it's because they're a party that can unite when not fully in control, but will have deep divisions once in control and the different factions try to exert their agenda, I don't know.

I know some people don't like to be classified as "Republican" or "Democrat", so I put some additional labels in there.

[Red Dog]

I mentioned this in the other thread. I think the true backlash will come when the SCt reviews the Oregon assisted suicide case later this term. Seeing the public reaction to federal intervention will certainly influence O'Connor and Kennedy to rule in favor of Oregon and create a majority. Not sure that would have happened without this circus taking place now.

BTW, this should probably go in Politics.

[Toad]

Deep divisions? Only like 9 Republicans didn't vote for the bill in Congress last Sunday night/Monday morning. Not anywhere near as divided as the Democratic congressmen...

[Red Dog]

Deep divisions? Only like 9 Republicans didn't vote for the bill in Congress last Sunday night/Monday morning. Not anywhere near as divided as the Democratic congressmen...


I agree.

The hope I have is that this will motivate non-religious minded Republicans to finally step up and take control of their party. They let the religious nut minority have too much control (relative to their numbers) of the party.

[LurkerDan]

Deep divisions? Only like 9 Republicans didn't vote for the bill in Congress last Sunday night/Monday morning. Not anywhere near as divided as the Democratic congressmen...
Fair enough, but many conservatives were (and are) very troubled by it, even if they voted for it. Or so I have read.

[LurkerDan]

BTW, this should probably go in Politics.
Well, I guess someone agreed with you. Which is too bad, because not only will this poll see much less action, but I am curious what all of Otter thinks, not what the much smaller political segment thinks. But oh well, I don't get to make such decisions. :(

[Red Dog]

Fair enough, but many conservatives were (and are) very troubled by it, even if they voted for it. Or so I have read.


One of my Senators, John Warner (kind of a moderate-conservative), was against it from a state's right perspective: "this is a principle of federalism which, I believe, is not being followed by Congress in enacting this legislation. . . . I believe it unwise for the Congress to take from the state of Florida its constitutional responsibility to resolve the issues in this case."

The question I have is where are the Democrats on this. Barney Frank as the lead voice in the actual House debate? Are you kidding me. They have been strangely silent when you consider the poll numbers. Wasting an opportunity if you ask me.

[General Zod]

I don't have a problem with what the republicans have done because all they have done so far is ASK the federal courts to look at the case.. they haven't "forced" them to review the case or put the feeding tube back in. So, while I agree they shouldn't have meddled in this at all, I don't think what they have done is this horrible terrible thing. Now.. if they push a little harder and try and force something.. then i'll have some major issues with it. Jeb, in my opinion, is very close to crossing the line.

[Pharoh]

Unchanged.

[dick_grayson]

I am wondering what it would take, then, for a Republican/conservative to look less favorably on Bush/Republicans.

[wildcatlh]

I also look less favourably upon the democrats here, because they've been woefully complicit in all of this.

[Pharoh]

I am wondering what it would take, then, for a Republican/conservative to look less favorably on Bush/Republicans.



An issue that was truly meaningful to me would be a prerequisite.

It's happened before.

[Toad]

Oh yeah, re: vote:

I'm Republican/Conservative, and I look less favorably on Bush/Republicans now

[Red Dog]

An issue that was truly meaningful to me would be a prerequisite.

It's happened before.


This is consistent my long held notion that Republicans don't give a rat's ass about federalism/state's rights (which is a very important issue IMO) even though they claim they do at election time.

[classicman2]

I'm a Centrist Democrat, and what the Bush administration does or does not do concerning this case is immaterial to me.

I'm far more concerned about what the Republicans do about major issues that affect millions of Americans.

[JasonF]

I agree.

The hope I have is that this will motivate non-religious minded Republicans to finally step up and take control of their party. They let the religious nut minority have too much control (relative to their numbers) of the party.

My more realistic hope is that it will prompt some of the "Go-along-to-get-along, my taxes are low and Congress would never really ban abortion anyway" Libertarians to start voting Democratic. ;)

[Red Dog]

My more realistic hope is that it will prompt some of the "Go-along-to-get-along, my taxes are low and Congress would never really ban abortion anyway" Libertarians to start voting Democratic. ;)


Who says I haven't? I've voted for more Democrats (2) than Republicans (0) since 2000. From 1990-1999, I voted for 0 Democrats.

[Mutley Hyde]

I think less of both parties now.

I don't understand how the party of compassion is chomping at the bit to kill the woman, especially in light of all the allegations against the husband seeping out of the woodwork, yet I also think the Republicans (as well as Democrats) rushed mighty quickly to their partisan corner on this one.

[Mutley Hyde]

And where is the "I'm Republican/Conservative, and I look less favorably on ABB/Democrats now" option??

[Giantrobo]

I -hate- that Congress can't get their shit together to deal with illegal aliens, Al Queda, Taxes, Budgets, and other issues that affect MILLIONS but they can all end their vacations early to vote on one woman who may or may not be a lost cause......


PRIORITIES!!!!!!!!! :mad:

[dick_grayson]

I -hate- that Congress can't get their shit together to deal with illegal aliens, Al Queda, Taxes, Budgets, and other issues that affect MILLIONS but they can all end their vacations early to vote on one woman who may or may not be a lost cause......


PRIORITIES!!!!!!!!! :mad:


that bothers me more than anything, too

[JasonF]

Who says I haven't? I've voted for more Democrats (2) than Republicans (0) since 2000. From 1990-1999, I voted for 0 Democrats.

I wasn't referring to you -- I have a lot of respect for your politics, actually. But I've encountered a lot of Libertarians who vote for Republicans because they cut taxes and justify it by telling themselves that the Republicans won't really get their socially conservative agenda passed.

To me, the marginalization of "non-Christian" viewpoints over the past decade or so is a far bigger threat to my liberty than whether or not I get an extra $100 taken out of my paycheck in taxes. (I use "non-Christian" for want of a better term, and I realize there is not a one-to-one correspondence between Christianity and the social conservative movement).

[classicman2]

Dealing (whatever that means) with illegal aliens doesn't make my list of congressional priorities.

[JasonF]

I think less of both parties now.

I don't understand how the party of compassion is chomping at the bit to kill the woman, especially in light of all the allegations against the husband seeping out of the woodwork, yet I also think the Republicans (as well as Democrats) rushed mighty quickly to their partisan corner on this one.

How is it uncompassionate to let people have say over their own medical decisions? Do you really want to have to get Tom DeLay's sign-off next time you want to have a wart removed? This is the same thing, only on a different scale.

[sfsdfd]

I -hate- that Congress can't get their shit together to deal with illegal aliens, Al Queda, Taxes, Budgets, and other issues that affect MILLIONS but they can all end their vacations early to vote on one woman who may or may not be a lost cause......
Without a doubt, this will be the "My Pet Goat" of the 2008 election.

Now all we need is a Democratic candidate with a level head and a little bit of charisma. Uhhhh... hmmmm... yep, we're still screwed.

- David Stein

[Mutley Hyde]

How is it uncompassionate to let people have say over their own medical decisions? Do you really want to have to get Tom DeLay's sign-off next time you want to have a wart removed? This is the same thing, only on a different scale.

Uh-huh. :lol:

Dude, a number of nurses have testified that the guy was trying to kill his wife.

Another thing, the woman is not on life support. There is no 'plug' to pull. Feeding an invalid is not artificial life support. If it was, we'd just starve all institutionalized vegetables.

I guess you didn't understand me the first time either; where did I suggest I was behind the Republicans on this?

[LurkerDan]

And where is the "I'm Republican/Conservative, and I look less favorably on ABB/Democrats now" option??
Well, it's a fair poll question (but would have required 18 poll options!). The reason it isn't there is because the Republicans are driving this ship. I do think the Dems complicity/silence is disappointing and they don't look very good, but they aren't the ones making this thing "go".

[sfsdfd]

Dude, a number of nurses have testified that the guy was trying to kill his wife.
None have testified with any kind of plausibility. A parade of doctors has gone on record to state that the nurses have no fscking clue what they're talking about. The courts have further noted that if this were true, then there's a massive conspiracy afoot - including not only Terri's doctors and dozens of healthcare workers, but also the Schindlers.

- David Stein

[LurkerDan]

Uh-huh. :lol:

Dude, a number of nurses have testified that the guy was trying to kill his wife.

Nurses who have been found not credible by the courts. SO not credible, that the husband was able to meet a clear and convincing standard if I'm not mistaken.

ETA: what sfsdfd said! :lol:

[Mutley Hyde]

Eh, okay, so kill her. What do I care? I'm with Robo... I just want the illegals out.

[JasonF]

Uh-huh. :lol:

Dude, a number of nurses have testified that the guy was trying to kill his wife.

Another thing, the woman is not on life support. There is no 'plug' to pull. Feeding an invalid is not artificial life support. If it was, we'd just starve all institutionalized vegetables.

I guess you didn't understand me the first time either; where did I suggest I was behind the Republicans on this?

1) The testimony of the nurses has been considered by the courts and rejected as fanciful and likely untrue. At this point, they should have as much credence as crackpot theories that the moon landing was faked.

2) Every discussion of this case I have seen -- from the Courts to Congress to the media -- presumes that this is a discussion regarding whether to withdraw life support from Ms. Schiavo. If you do not define "life support" to include her feeding tube, then you are using an idiosyncratic definition of life support that is not shared by the overwhelming majority of participants in this national dialogue.

3) I didn't say you supported the Republicans; I just took issue with your assertion that people who support the removal of Ms. Schiavo's are acting uncompassionately.

[Mutley Hyde]

Wow, I seem to have hit upon something here.

[Mutley Hyde]

3) I didn't say you supported the Republicans; I just took issue with your assertion that people who support the removal of Ms. Schiavo's are acting uncompassionately.

Um, yes you did; you said I wanted Tom Delay to make my decisions for me.

And screw all this anyway, just kill her so we can all move on to more important things.

[sfsdfd]

Wow, I seem to have hit upon something here.
Yep. You hit upon our irritation that people have gone to shameful, and arguably illegal, lengths to sully his reputation in order to sway the issue. Much of this is malicious slander of the worst sort.

- David Stein

[Mutley Hyde]

Hey, haven't you been paying attention? I'm with you guys now; pull the tube!

[CaptainMarvel]

I have no idea whether I'm truly "conservative" or "liberal"... I pretty much associate with elements of both sides.

My stances:

Pro-abortion (would support a constitutional amendment allowing abortions or a legislative act allowing them)
Anti-Roe v. Wade (good result, bad method)
Very anti-gun control
Pro-capital punishment
Very pro-first amendment (including the interpretation of the Establishment Clause that c-man2 hates)
Fiscal conservative, but willing to overspend on defense and national security
Anti-affirmative action
Pro-state's rights

Looking at the list, I probably trend towards conservative. I look less favorably on Bush now, but then I've never agreed with his stance on "sanctity of life" issues.

I'm tremendously pissed at Congress (all of Congress) for letting this happen while we have better issues to worry about.

[sfsdfd]

Looking at the list, I probably trend towards conservative.
Eh, not necessarily. I agree with every position on your list except for capital punishment, and I'm a pretty ardent liberal. :shrug:

But I'm more of a "classic" liberal; I characterize myself based on my outlook - e.g., more concern about workers than corporations - than about talking-point issues. I recognize that things like anti-gun-control put me at odds with the current DNC, but I fault them for that.

- David Stein

[JasonF]

I have no idea whether I'm truly "conservative" or "liberal"... I pretty much associate with elements of both sides.

My stances:

Pro-abortion (would support a constitutional amendment allowing abortions or a legislative act allowing them)
Anti-Roe v. Wade (good result, bad method)
Very anti-gun control
Pro-capital punishment
Very pro-first amendment (including the interpretation of the Establishment Clause that c-man2 hates)
Fiscal conservative, but willing to overspend on defense and national security
Anti-affirmative action
Pro-state's rights

Looking at the list, I probably trend towards conservative. I look less favorably on Bush now, but then I've never agreed with his stance on "sanctity of life" issues.

I'm tremendously pissed at Congress (all of Congress) for letting this happen while we have better issues to worry about.

You sound like a (*shudder*) libertarian to me.

[Red Dog]

I have no idea whether I'm truly "conservative" or "liberal"... I pretty much associate with elements of both sides.

My stances:

Pro-abortion (would support a constitutional amendment allowing abortions or a legislative act allowing them)
Anti-Roe v. Wade (good result, bad method)
Very anti-gun control
Pro-capital punishment
Very pro-first amendment (including the interpretation of the Establishment Clause that c-man2 hates)
Fiscal conservative, but willing to overspend on defense and national security
Anti-affirmative action
Pro-state's rights

Looking at the list, I probably trend towards conservative. I look less favorably on Bush now, but then I've never agreed with his stance on "sanctity of life" issues.

I'm tremendously pissed at Congress (all of Congress) for letting this happen while we have better issues to worry about.


You sure sound like a libertarian (little 'l') to me.

[sfsdfd]

Eerie...

- David Stein

[CaptainMarvel]

You sound like a (*shudder*) libertarian to me.

Don't say that!

You sure sound like a libertarian (little 'l') to me..

Stop it!

(runs screaming from the thread)

[Pharoh]

This is consistent my long held notion that Republicans don't give a rat's ass about federalism/state's rights (which is a very important issue IMO) even though they claim they do at election time.



In my view this isn't consistent since I don't feel the action by Congress is that big of a deal as you and others do. Still, I am upset by their actions, but I also realise that it will not, in anyway, have a lasting effect upon me.

[dick_grayson]

In my view this isn't consistent since I don't feel the action by Congress is that big of a deal as you and others do. Still, I am upset by their actions, but I also realise that it will not, in anyway, have a lasting effect upon me.


well, the AIDS epidemic or homeless problem or adaquate/affordable health care for seniors or the many children that go hungry in this country doesn't affect you directly, but you should still care. since when is life all about "me"? what ever happened to "love thy neighbor?"

[Pharoh]

well, the AIDS epidemic or homeless problem or adaquate/affordable health care for seniors or the many children that go hungry in this country doesn't affect you directly, but you should still care. since when is life all about "me"? what ever happened to "love thy neighbor?"



Those things do affect me, my community, and my country. I do care about them because of that. In my opinion, this case affects none of those.

[Red Dog]

In my view this isn't consistent since I don't feel the action by Congress is that big of a deal as you and others do. Still, I am upset by their actions, but I also realise that it will not, in anyway, have a lasting effect upon me.


The abortion issue doesn't effect me whatsoever (and I call it the most overrated issue today), yet I am quite offended by federal involvement in the subject (for example, federal laws on partial birth abortion).

[dick_grayson]

Those things do affect me, my community, and my country. I do care about them because of that. In my opinion, this case affects none of those.


ok, I get it now. I thought you were saying "I only care about stuff that affects me." sorry for the confusion :)

[paulringodaman]

I am disgusted with Congress for this and steroids...I am very disillusioned with politics now

[Goldblum]

There's a misconception present in the poll that is a Republican vs. Democrat issue. I would think the recent vote in Congress would dispell much of this myth.

[Red Dog]

I am disgusted with Congress for this and steroids...I am very disillusioned with politics now


The events of last week certainly did nothing to restore my respect of Congress.

[Red Dog]

There's a misconception present in the poll that is a Republican vs. Democrat issue. I would think the recent vote in Congress would dispell much of this myth.


Maybe. OTOH, if there was a Democrat majority in Congress, do you think vacations would have been cut short and this law passed? I'm skeptical. I also don't see a Democratic governor making the moves that Governor Bush has.

[Goldblum]

Maybe. OTOH, if there was a Democrat majority in Congress, do you think vacations would have been cut short and this law passed? I'm skeptical. I also don't see a Democratic governor making the moves that Governor Bush has.
I do agree with you. I was just making the point that this honestly is not a strict Republican vs. Democrat ideological split. There are many Dems and Repubs on the other side of the coin. There's a definite split in opinion, but it's not a purely politically ideological one. But Sean Hannity and Jeb Bush have caught the headlines, and that's what people see most.

[LurkerDan]

I do agree with you. I was just making the point that this honestly is not a strict Republican vs. Democrat ideological split. There are many Dems and Repubs on the other side of the coin. There's a definite split in opinion, but it's not a purely politically ideological one. But Sean Hannity and Jeb Bush have caught the headlines, and that's what people see most.
As the poll starter, fair enough. I just think that it's being driven by Reps, and that it may backfire. That's why I set up the poll the way it is.

[classicman2]

The abortion issue doesn't effect me whatsoever (and I call it the most overrated issue today), yet I am quite offended by federal involvement in the subject (for example, federal laws on partial birth abortion).

It's merely an indication of how society values life.

Overrated issue? Hardly.

Point of clarification: The congress is not taking a vacation - it's the Easter recess. ;)

The subject of this thread is certainly not a Republican-Democratic issue. Many many Democrats support what the Congress did. A number of Republicans (inlcuding Red Dog's favorite - Ron Paul) opposed it.

[movielib]

My more realistic hope is that it will prompt some of the "Go-along-to-get-along, my taxes are low and Congress would never really ban abortion anyway" Libertarians to start voting Democratic. ;)
If I had voted in 2004 it would have been for Kerry simply because Bush is so odiously over the edge. However, I'm certainly not about to say "my taxes are low." :lol:

Any sympathy I might have had toward Bush and his cohorts (I admit there was precious little left before) is now totally gone. With this Schiavo debacle they are so far beyond the pale I don't see how they could ever recover in my eyes.

Obviously, in the poll I voted:

"I'm <strike>Independent/</strike> <strike>L</strike>libertarian, and I look less favorably on Bush/Republicans now

[Brain Stew]

The Republicans in congress are either the most liberal conservatives or the most conservative liberals ever. How is this not a case of the Federal government going beyond it's power just to get involved with people's personal lives and create a nanny state?

Oh, their actions are fulfilling the "sanctity" of life.

Two things.
1) Being brain-dead is not much of a life. But, I'll accept that technically she is still alive.
2) Regardless of the fact that the husband has a new girlfriend (BOOGA BOOGA!) he was is husband ands wants the feeding tube removed. Spouses supercede parents. CUT THE IMBILICAL CORD. If the major concern is over insurance money ( :rolleyes: ), let the insurance company deal with it.

[darkessenz]

I consider myself a democrat, and my views are unchanged. How can anyone be surprised by the Republicans/conservatives mobilized by this issue? Did you think that they were joking about their determination to eliminate choices WRT end of life issues? Culture of life means that Euthanasia and Assisted Suicide are unacceptable in our society.

Until the religious right accepts a more reasonable interpretation of what human life IS, you will see conservatives and Republicans follow their ideological fault lines.

[Brain Stew]

As a Democrat, I'd rather get beaten by a secular party than the current party.

[sfsdfd]

How can anyone be surprised by the Republicans/conservatives mobilized by this issue?
We certainly expected them to spend the next four years forcing religious conventions onto Americans. But we didn't expect them to trample the organization of the federal government in pursuit of this agenda.

- David Stein

[Pharoh]

Well look at the bright side, this will be such a great issue for anti-Republican/conservative forces that there is absolutely no way the GOP will win either the mid-term elections or the next Presidential election. No way.

[General Zod]

Well look at the bright side, this will be such a great issue for anti-Republican/conservative forces that there is absolutely no way the GOP will win either the mid-term elections or the next Presidential election. No way.
rotfl

Wow does that sound familiar. :lol:

[sfsdfd]

Well look at the bright side, this will be such a great issue for anti-Republican/conservative forces that there is absolutely no way the GOP will win either the mid-term elections or the next Presidential election. No way.
Without a doubt, this will be the "My Pet Goat" of the 2008 election.

Now all we need is a Democratic candidate with a level head and a little bit of charisma. Uhhhh... hmmmm... yep, we're still screwed.
- David Stein

[Tommy Ceez]

Well look at the bright side, this will be such a great issue for anti-Republican/conservative forces that there is absolutely no way the GOP will win either the mid-term elections or the next Presidential election. No way.

Besides political junkies, NO ONE has any idea what happened with the Schiavo legislation...or cares for that matter.

[Red Dog]

Besides political junkies, NO ONE has any idea what happened with the Schiavo legislation...or cares for that matter.


Are you saying the carbon blobs have no idea? C'mon. ;)

[nemein]

Well look at the bright side, this will be such a great issue for anti-Republican/conservative forces that there is absolutely no way the GOP will win either the mid-term elections or the next Presidential election. No way.

I kind of agree but I suspect not for the same reasons... IMHO the country has reached critical mass wrt the GOP running things so more likely than not there will be some losses in the next election. The Schiavo case may become the defacto lynchpin for the turn around but even if this didn't happen people would find another story/reason to point to and say that was the issue. Personally I just don't see this issue being big/important enough to get people to change their mind about the two parties (the Reps suddenly propping up Fed rights and the Dems espousing state rights)... unless of course they weren't already unhappy w/ their particular party and were just waiting for something to happen ;)

[Pharoh]

I kind of agree but I suspect not for the same reasons... IMHO the country has reached critical mass wrt the GOP running things so more likely than not there will be some losses in the next election. The Schiavo case may become the defacto lynchpin for the turn around but even if this didn't happen people would find another story/reason to point to and say that was the issue.



Do I really have to start using ;) in my posts?


;)

[nemein]

Do I really have to start using ;) in my posts?


;)


In print everything has to be taken at face value... so if there's no "face" there's no value -ptth-

[Tommy Ceez]

Do I really have to start using ;) in my posts?


;)

I knew you were too savy for your post to be real, but I opportunistically used it as a jumping off point for a point I wanted to make.

How does it feel to be used for political gain?

[classicman2]

Besides political junkies, NO ONE has any idea what happened with the Schiavo legislation...or cares for that matter.

Wrong!

[Ranger]

I voted "I'm Republican/Conservative, and my views are unchanged"

To speak as a moderate Rep - "This shall pass. Stand firm!" I know all about Bush and his religious base, but I don't regret voting Bush. Then again, I'd have voted for Satan over John Kerry. :) This week's events probably will push other Reps to show some restraint in appealing to the religious extreme, which is a good thing.

[wmansir]

Ditto what Ranger said. I'm disappointed, but because it was expected my views are unchanged. And I hope this does provide some backlash that will move the party away from the religious right, but I don't have much hope of that.

[Gallant Pig]

Wrong!

Agreed.

[Pharoh]

Agreed.


I don't know if it will only be remembered by political junkies, but it will not be a decisive issue in any upcoming elections.

Of course that is just my opinion, which may not count for much.

[Pharoh]

How does it feel to be used for political gain?


I would rather by used by Jessica Alba.

[classicman2]

I voted "I'm Republican/Conservative, and my views are unchanged"

To speak as a moderate Rep - "This shall pass. Stand firm!" I know all about Bush and his religious base, but I don't regret voting Bush. Then again, I'd have voted for Satan over John Kerry. :) This week's events probably will push other Reps to show some restraint in appealing to the religious extreme, which is a good thing.

Are you suggesting that only the religious extreme (as if one has to be extreme to believe that we should err on the side of life) has problems with what has transpired in the Schiavo matter?

[JasonF]

I agree with classicman that the average American knows about what's going on and cares about what's going on. I'm cynical enough to believe, however, that while America is incensed and outraged now, in a week, they'll be incensed and outraged by something new, and by Election Day 2006, they'll be incensed and outraged by something else entirely. Ask the average American who Terri Schiavo is 20 months from now and you'll likely get a blank stare.

[jaeufraser]

Wrong!

Eh. I think we overestimate the mainstream public. To quote a friend of mine, I asked him his opinion on the Terry Schiavo case yesterday. His response?

"Who?"

You'd be surprised. Lots of people don't really pay attention to this type of stuff. This issue I don't think will resonate in the long run, even though it certainly does seem to be fairly relevant in terms of government overstepping their boundries. But I suspect many people don't even know states have rights, let alone what Congress has been doing wrt to this case.

[classicman2]

Of course you can find people who don't pay any attention, but I have doubts that those folks pay attention to anything. In other words, they're not very likely to vote. For those that are likely to vote, I believe they're well aware of what's going on.

Some Republicans will peel away from the party because they perceive the party has followed the wrong course in this issue - injected politics in a family matter.

Some Democrats will peel away from the party because they perceive that this is simply another indication of the party's social liberalism - an extreme example.

Overall, I believe it's a very minor plus (politically) for the Republicans.

[Ranger]

Are you suggesting that only the religious extreme (as if one has to be extreme to believe that we should err on the side of life) has problems with what has transpired in the Schiavo matter?
It is clear Bush has a solid religious extreme base. Those who do not identify themselves as the religious extreme and not happy with the courts' rulings on the Schiavo case may very well be in the middle. But they don't really have the strong convictions, which is why they're just going to stay in the independent middle and watch for the next "big issue" as JasonF seemed to indicate.

[Ranger]

Of course you can find people who don't pay any attention, but I have doubts that those folks pay attention to anything. In other words, they're not very likely to vote. For those that are likely to vote, I believe they're well aware of what's going on.

Some Republicans will peel away from the party because they perceive the party has followed the wrong course in this issue - injected politics in a family matter.

Some Democrats will peel away from the party because they perceive that this is simply another indication of the party's social liberalism - an extreme example.

Overall, I believe it's a very minor plus (politically) for the Republicans.

The country's one-third Dem, one-third Rep, one-third independent. The peeling aways will likely just cancel each other out.

[movielib]

...
Ask the average American who Terri Schiavo is 20 months from now and you'll likely get a blank stare.
Bad choice of words? ;)

[JasonF]

Bad choice of words? ;)

D'oh! Now I look like an insensitive jerk. Which I am, but I try not to look like one.

[hahn]

There's a misconception present in the poll that is a Republican vs. Democrat issue. I would think the recent vote in Congress would dispell much of this myth.

They all voted for the Iraq war too, but we never consider it a misconception that the war was a Rep vs Dem issue.

[OldDude]

Are you suggesting that only the religious extreme (as if one has to be extreme to believe that we should err on the side of life) has problems with what has transpired in the Schiavo matter?

I think every person in America "has problems with what has transpired in the Schiavo matter;" just not the same problem.

[classicman2]

The country's one-third Dem, one-third Rep, one-third independent. The peeling aways will likely just cancel each other out.

No longer true - the Republican Party is now the majority party. More people call themselves Republicans than they do Democrats. Party registration doesn't mean too much - especially in certain parts of the country.

It's also not true on the issue of abortion.

For voters who decide on which candidate to vote for solely on the abortion issue - more vote for the Republicans than do the Democrats.

Despite what the media says - the abortion issue is a larger problem for the Democrats than it is for the Republicans. It's a plus for the Republicans.

I believe this issue will be also - although less a plus than the abortion issue is, because some voters tend to galvanize around these social issues - and this is a social issue to many Americans. Voters who might decide to stay at home might just change their mind over issues like this. They certainly have in the past.

[Bandoman]

I think it's time for Zel Miller to make a statement about how the Republican Party isn't the same Republican Party he joined way back in....wait. :hscratch:

[classicman2]

Elliot Mincberg of People for The American Way said Thursday he hoped fallout from the Schiavo case would hamper GOP efforts to change Senate rules and speed confirmation of controversial Bush court appointees.

Do you believe it hurts of helps the effort - an effort the Republican leadership in the Senate hasn't decided to undertake in the first place?

[Red Dog]

I don't think it effects the GOP efforts to change the rule. Heck, this was not judicial activism. This was a model of judicial restraint, the very thing conservatives demand from judges.

Then again, I keep forgetting that to many dolts in Congress, judicial activism = "decision that I don't agree with." ;)

[classicman2]

The principal thing that would deter Republicans in the Senate from this action would be the fear that someday they might just find themselves in the minority with a Democrat in the White House.

[Pharoh]

Do you believe it hurts of helps the effort - an effort the Republican leadership in the Senate hasn't decided to undertake in the first place?



Agreed. There isn't presently any effort underway. At last count Dr. Frist only had 49 solid votes.

[LurkerDan]

Overall, I believe it's a very minor plus (politically) for the Republicans.
That directly contradicts the results of this highly scientific poll. ;)

[Duran]

I have no idea whether I'm truly "conservative" or "liberal"... I pretty much associate with elements of both sides.

My stances:

Pro-abortion (would support a constitutional amendment allowing abortions or a legislative act allowing them)
Anti-Roe v. Wade (good result, bad method)
Very anti-gun control
Pro-capital punishment
Very pro-first amendment (including the interpretation of the Establishment Clause that c-man2 hates)
Fiscal conservative, but willing to overspend on defense and national security
Anti-affirmative action
Pro-state's rights

Looking at the list, I probably trend towards conservative. I look less favorably on Bush now, but then I've never agreed with his stance on "sanctity of life" issues.


Welcome to libertarianism! :)

[classicman2]

I agree - willing to overspend in defense is a trait that both conservatives and libertarians share. I wouldn't be proud of it.

[wendersfan]

Of course you can find people who don't pay any attention, but I have doubts that those folks pay attention to anything.I may be an anomaly, but I tend to pay a lot of attention to current events and events in the news, but everything I know about this case I've learned strictly in passing. I'm much more interested in, e.g., the Social Security debate or events in Kyrgyzistan.

[wendersfan]

Welcome to libertarianism! :)Are we giving out toasters or iPods this year?

[dick_grayson]

My stances:

Pro-abortion (would support a constitutional amendment allowing abortions or a legislative act allowing them)



do you mean you're "pro-choice"? :hscratch:


"pro-abortion" sounds like you're all for mandatory abortions or something.

[Red Dog]

I agree - willing to overspend in defense is a trait that both conservatives and libertarians share. I wouldn't be proud of it.


Don't lump us together. We don't believe in a strong offense and defense. ;)

[movielib]

Don't lump us together. We don't believe in a strong offense and defense. ;)
True. A good noninterventionist foreign policy coupled with a strong defense would cost much, much less.

[CaptainMarvel]

do you mean you're "pro-choice"? :hscratch:


"pro-abortion" sounds like you're all for mandatory abortions or something.

Sure, pro-choice.

Would "not anti-abortion" be better? :D

[Pharoh]

Are we giving out toasters or iPods this year?


Could I get the toaster?

[DVD Polizei]

Eh. I think we overestimate the mainstream public. To quote a friend of mine, I asked him his opinion on the Terry Schiavo case yesterday. His response?

"Who?"

You'd be surprised. Lots of people don't really pay attention to this type of stuff. This issue I don't think will resonate in the long run, even though it certainly does seem to be fairly relevant in terms of government overstepping their boundries. But I suspect many people don't even know states have rights, let alone what Congress has been doing wrt to this case.

And I bet your friend doesn't vote. :)

If you're only moderately involved with politics, Shiavo will be a household word.

[VinVega]

I'd have to say that I think less of the Republican Party now. What a shocker, and it really doesn't matter whether my opinion changed much as I would probably not vote for a Republican in this day and age unless there were extremely extenuating circumstances. The sad pandering to their fringe base just shows how out of whack politics are these days. If both the Democratic and Republican parties looked toward the middle and didn't bend over backwards to their far wings, some real meaningful legislation might get approved in this country.

[Gil Jawetz]

I have never had an ounce of respect for W and most of the members of congress but I still think less of them now.

And Jeb needs a swirly. Preferably one where he drowns in the process.

[Duran]

Are we giving out toasters or iPods this year?

No, we're sticking with the standard healthy dose of self-righteousness again this year. That's seemed to serve us well in the past. Plus, we don't want to give things away and get confused for socialists or something. ;)

[hahn]

The sad pandering to their fringe base just shows how out of whack politics are these days.
The thing is, I don't even think it's pandering. I think (and have thought this since the start of the Iraq war 2 years ago) that the current administration IS the fringe base. They are NOT moderates and I don't know where anyone ever got that idea from. Nothing they have done is moderate unless it was to win some votes. They pulled the wool over America's eyes and I find it highly ironic that it took one woman who's been vegetative since 1990 to wake the public up to the administration's true colors.

[wmansir]

I don't think this will have a major impact on elections, but I do think it will provide plenty of clout for the dems to gum up any Bush SC nominations. A lot of moderates will see what they tried to do here and thank God they didn't have the judiciary stacked with right wingers.

[nemein]

A lot of moderates will see what they tried to do here and thank God they didn't have the judiciary stacked with right wingers.

I could be wrong but weren't some of the judges who did rule on the case Bush appointees? Not that that would prevent people from spinning it the way you are talking about ;)

[wmansir]

I'm sure some of them were, but the primary federal judge, Whittemore, was a Clinton appointee, which is something the media reminded us of every 5 minutes.

Speaking of Whittemore, somebody mentioned in the other thread was how Fox News would show his picture, where the other channels generally didn't. I haven't been watching it on TV, but I watched a little bit of Cavuto last night and during the report for this story the on-location reporter very briefly mentioned him and then they put up his picture, full frame, for about 45 seconds while the report continued. I don't know if I would have noticed it if someone hadn't mentioned it here, but it did seem out of place.

[classicman2]

A lot of moderates will see what they tried to do here and thank God they didn't have the judiciary stacked with right wingers.

Bush's favorite judge is Scalia. How do you believe Scalia voted on this issue? I'll bet he voted not to hear the case. Do you consider Scalia a 'right winger?'

[Jason]

This situation has done more to erode my faith in the basic structure of our government than anything I've ever seen (even the impeachment circus).

[Tommy Ceez]

This situation has done more to erode my faith in the basic structure of our government than anything I've ever seen (even the impeachment circus).

This Schiavo situation has shown us one thing about ourselves as a country...


...we now know who the drama queens are.

[Aldarion]

I could be wrong but weren't some of the judges who did rule on the case Bush appointees? Not that that would prevent people from spinning it the way you are talking about ;)

Judge Greer is a Republican who has been described as a member of the "religious right" . That hasn't affected his rulings on this case.

I think that most judges would try to uphold the law, regardless of their political leanings (the Roy Moores excepted).

[VinVega]

This situation has done more to erode my faith in the basic structure of our government than anything I've ever seen (even the impeachment circus).
I feel the opposite. I think it showed that checks and balances work, no matter how over the top one part of a branch of government (or 2 parts in this case) gets. The Judicial branch of government had a clear head about itself in this case, both Demo and Rep judges and justices. The system worked and for that I'm thankful.

[classicman2]

I see where the Pope is being fed through a nasal tube.

It's a damn good thing he's not in Florida. :lol:

[movielib]

I see where the Pope is being fed through a nasal tube.

It's a damn good thing he's not in Florida. :lol:
Yes, the Pope's and Terri Schiavo's cases are indistiguishable.