Cameron

Has anyone compared the 100th Ann. Great Train Robbery to Kino's Edison Box. Just wondering if they are taken from the same print...and any other reason to have the 100th anniversary dvd.

Dan Average

Both prints were provided by the Library of Congress, so I'd expect them to be identical. Transfer quality is a separate question but based on what I've seen from VCI it's unlikely the Kino/MoMA release would be worse.

John Sinnott

I wanted to compare these for my column on the Edison box, (http://www.dvdtalk.com/silentdvd/003763.html - shamless plug), but I couldn't locate a copy for rent. The VCI does have some extra movies on it, which aren't included in the Edison set: "The Heart of Texas Ryan" (1916), "Tumbleweeds" (1925) and "The Battle of Elderbush Gulch" (1913).

Cameron

thanks for the updates...where else are those movies found on dvd? I read your column...good stuff, keep up the good work. I bought a sealed copy, and just wondering if i should unload it since i have the set now.

rasalas

They aren't identical. Kino's Edison set includes color scenes for the first time. That would be quite a difference between the two.

"This is the first time that the hand-colored 'The Great Train Robbery' has been put on DVD," said Steven Higgens, the film curator of the Museum of Modern Art who compiled the Kino DVD. "That was a wonderful discovery when that turned up, and we were able to make a copy of that."

Cameron

^^^thats what i thought but the VCI release states on the back of the box...

"This special 100th Anniversary Special Edition version contains two versions of this historically signifigant western, the original silent archival version provided by the Library of Congress and a digitally enhanced version with a new music and effects track and color tinted sequences"

rasalas

Cameron, I think the difference is as stated on the VCI box and as clarified by the Edison set's curator: VCI's tinting was done digitally (and recently) in post-production using a B&W print, while the Edison set used an original hand-colored print from the era that was recently discovered.

That's my understanding, anyway. I'd be interested to see if anyone has further info.

If I can find my copy of the VCI disc, I'll compare and post screen grabs. I have a feeling the VCI disc will have whole-screen tinting, while the Kino disc will have individual items, such as clothing, hand-colored in different hues.

Cameron

i would love to see some side by side shots...That makes sense though...Can't wait to see those pics...thanks again rasalas

unclehulot

Well, they can say that, but hasn't it been available in this hand tinted color version in Kino's "The Movies Begin" set?

The Monkees

Sorry to get off topic, but that just looks weird, never in my life would I have thought I would have seen a 100th aniversary movie. WOW!

Steve

wasn't the hand tinted version already released by Image in their history of film series a while ago?

Cameron

i think what rasalas is saying is that this is the first time a master print with the tinting has been used, any other release (Image, Kino, VCI) has always been color corrected with a computer, and covers the entire frame, not just the certain elements. I am hoping the screen grabs will clear some of this up.

and the monkees...its a good one to say wow...100 years, and we have come a long way.

for the sake of the search engine, and in case anyone is ever searching for edison conversations I am posting this link Edison: the invention of the movies...whose getting it so they can read more on the Kino set.

thanks again

rasalas

OK, I found my copy of the VCI DVD and did a comparison tonight. As the screen captures below show, my assumptions about the differences between the coloring of the two discs were correct. The VCI disc has whole-screen tinting, which was done recently by computer over the B&W print. Kino's Edison set uses an original hand-colored print. The latter also is of much higher quality, as shown below.

Please note: I have tried as much as possible to capture the exact frame. This was not always doable, because there was not always a corresponding frame between the two discs--a clear indication of different prints being used for each release.

I hope you find the results as enlightening as I did.


"THE GREAT TRAIN ROBBERY"
Comparison between VCI'S "100th Anniversary Special Edition" and Kino's "Edison: The Invention of the Movies"


Scene 1

VCI


KINO




Scene 2

VCI


KINO





Scene 3

VCI


KINO





Scene 4

VCI


KINO





Scene 5

VCI


KINO

Cameron

great pics...that clears it all up.

PatrickMcCart

The Library of Congress holds the original camera negative to The Great Train Robbery, by the way.

It would be neat if someday, the LoC could do a digital restoration using the negative and that hand-colored print. Perhaps they could somehow overlay the color over the flawless photographic quality of the negative.

Digital Groove

Yup, I've never seen this movie before, heard a lot about it but looks like I'd pick up the Kino verson.

rasalas

I should add that I did captures of all but one of the hand-colored scenes from the film. I believe I left out only a scene in which there's tinted gunfire exchanged among galloping horse riders, the one just before the shootout in Scene 4.

My point is that the entire film doesn't look like the sample scenes. They are pretty much it. I'd guess those scenes total less than 3 minutes of the film's 12-minute duration. Scene 1, for example, doesn't appear until 3 minutes into the film. Then it's about a 5-minute gap before Scene 2 appears. Then they come in quick succession, but not usually back to back. The rest of the film is black and white--or maybe sepia, more accurately.

I just don't want anyone to think from my examples that the entire film looks like that.