Will the Smashing Pumpkins be remembered in 20 years?

[ShelleyLevene]

Have they made a lasting contribution in rock history?

Do you think new generations will discover and listen to their music?

[cungar]

Who?

[paulringodaman]

Man you beat me to it :)

[starseed1981]

I think they will be. For alot of people who grew up in the mid-90's their music is a part of their youth. Also, they were one of the groups that spearheaded the alternative movement. Will their last three albums be remembered, most likely not. But Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie And The Infinite Sadness definitley will be.

[Randy Miller III]

...and Gish! Don't forget Gish!

[Sierra Disc]

No. I'd say most teenagers have forgotten them already. They had some great songs, but didn't jump into the "legendary" category for me.

[Flynn]

I'll remember them. They were a big part of my college years, and I saw them on their farewell tour - a fantastic show. Their music will stand the test of time, because it's difficult to categorize.

[auto]

Yep. Of course. They'll still be playing all the hits from SD in twenty years. Will they be remembered in fifty years would be a better question.

[Hollowgen]

No. I'd say most teenagers have forgotten them already. They had some great songs, but didn't jump into the "legendary" category for me.

the teenagers of today aren't even familiar. for those of us who were teenagers, i don't think we'll ever forget them. at least those who were such in the mid 90's. their later stuff is totally forgettable.

[jonnyrocks]

I think they've made enough of an impact to leave a lasting impression on a generation of young bands.

Then, when that scene gets popular in 20 or so years, Virgin will be able to market the hell out of their back catalog...then the whole "retro is cool" thing will come into play.

See: The Strokes => The Velvet Underground, Television
Also see: Interpol => Joy Division, The Cure

[troystiffler]

I listened to them from around 12-16. Like Beck's Odelay, Siamese Dream and Melon Collie And The Infinite Sadness will be remembered for a long, long time. Especially Melon Collie.

Just like Modest Mouse in my late teens.

Just like Sage Francis in my early twenties.

This thread makes me get out Melon Collie cd and listen. Thanks.

[sherm42]

I always thought they were better than Nirvana and that Siamese Dream was way better than Nevermind.

So I will at least always remember them.

[clckworang]

I always thought they were better than Nirvana and that Siamese Dream was way better than Nevermind.

So I will at least always remember them.


I agree completely.

[Brain Stew]

The Smashing Pumpkins were derided by some in the early 90's because they were more influenced by pop (Cheap Trick, New Order) than the grunge bands who were influenced by punk.

But, after Cobain blew his brains out and Bullet With Butterfly Wings was the hard rock song-du-jour, MTV pinned all their hopes of the rock revival on them (in a way). Of course, Adore was commercial failure and got mixed reviews so the rock revival thing kind of died there.

In my opinion, Corgan is one of the best performers from the 90s. I never had the chance to see the Pumpkins live, but if it was anything like the ZWAN show I saw in 2003, they were FULL OF ENERGY. You wouldn't think it since a lot his songs are slow or soft, but he really rocks. He really is an entertainer for his audience and is definitely there to please them.

The Smashing Pumpkins is one of my favorite bands :).

[kdubby]

To answer the original question, I really don't think so. My nephew is 18. He knows all about Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, STP, Alice in Chains and even Hootie and the Blowfish (just to name another band from the same time frame), but I asked him about the Pumpkins and he said he had no clue. I know that 18 means he was only 13 at the end of the 90's, but I think knowing something about the other bands says something. For further research, I asked my mom. She is 52. She is not a fan of new music by any means, but she does listen to the radio. She knows all of the above mentioned bands as well, but again no Pumpkins. So I think that people that liked them in the 90's will listen to them in 20 years, but I really doubt that they would be on the classic rock station in 20 years.

I love Corgan and think he was a great artist. I though Iha was a good performer as well and was happy to see him touring with a Perfect Circle last year.

[db27]

I always thought they were better than Nirvana and that Siamese Dream was way better than Nevermind.

So I will at least always remember them.


strong agreement !

[woofman]

I think so. For me Siamese Dream will always be one of my all time favorites with Gish and a few others being memorable too. The band as whole, could also deliver the goods live, and then some, so I could care less if others remember them or not, in their prime the Smashing Pumpkins rocked hard-just ask anyone who saw them on the Siamese tour in a small club. It's not all that often you see that energy equalled in a live setting, and those bands that do are usually remembered for a long time. If others remember them too, then I'm glad they recognize good rock when they hear it, regardless of the era.

[gmal2003]

I hope they would be appreciated.Since Im only 20, I didnt have the experience to fully appreciate their earlier work (SD and Gish), but I always loved "Tonight Tonight" so bought MC around 1998. I actually liked their later stuff too (Adore, Machina) and will conitnue to check out all of their work. I wish they came out when I couldve experienced them more/better because they have made many of my all time favorite songs.

[Michael Corvin]

the teenagers of today aren't even familiar. for those of us who were teenagers, i don't think we'll ever forget them. at least those who were such in the mid 90's. their later stuff is totally forgettable.

I disagree. I was in high school 90-94. When I think of the great bands of the 90's I think

Nirvana
Pearl Jam
STP
Alice in Chains
Soundgarden

and to a lesser degree Weezer, only for the fact the blue album is brilliant. I ALWAYS forget about the Pumpkins.

[fliggil]

I listen to Mellon Collie all the time, it is one of my favorite albums of all time. I hope their music lives on, I think they were around long enough to impact people who will pass it on to younger friends, relatives, etc.

I also believe they'll live on because of their 'Tonight Tonight' video. I've asked a bunch of friends recently what their favorite music video was, and the majority all seemed to remember it as being one of the best. I even remember when I took a film class in high school, we watched it after watched George Melies 'A Trip to the Moon.' It's a classic.

[fryinpan1]

This thread reminded me to order the Smashing Pumpkins - Greatest Hits Video Collection DVD from Amazon.

[Jeraden]

In my opinion, Corgan is one of the best performers from the 90s. I never had the chance to see the Pumpkins live, but if it was anything like the ZWAN show I saw in 2003, they were FULL OF ENERGY. You wouldn't think it since a lot his songs are slow or soft, but he really rocks. He really is an entertainer for his audience and is definitely there to please them.


Well, be glad you didn't go to a Smashing Pumpkins concert then. I've seen them in concert twice, and both times they were extremely boring. In fact, I'd go as far as saying they had the worst entertainment value out of any major show I've ever been to. They all just stand on stage in one spot doing their thing and never really show any sign of life. I've read many similar reviews of their shows as well.

[FrozenMetalHead]

Well, be glad you didn't go to a Smashing Pumpkins concert then. I've seen them in concert twice, and both times they were extremely boring. In fact, I'd go as far as saying they had the worst entertainment value out of any major show I've ever been to. They all just stand on stage in one spot doing their thing and never really show any sign of life. I've read many similar reviews of their shows as well.

I saw them twice as well. The first show (Mellon Collie tour in Dallas) was incredible. Played a great set - very energetic - great song selection. On the final encore Corgan said they were done playing "songs" for the night so everyone was free to leave; however, if anyone wanted to just hang out and jam they were welcome to. They played about a 45 minutes jam session.

That said, I've seen some concert videos and heard other's accounts that match exactly what you're saying. I think it was all on what kind of mood you caught Billy in.

There was talk a few years ago of releasing their final concert on DVD. I haven't heard anything else about it, but would love to have that see the light of day.

[Sierra Disc]

I saw them in the shittiest concert I've ever experienced back in 1994, less than 40 minutes of music and then they walked off stage for no particular reason. Practically had a riot in the audience. Awful show.

[SpaceBoy]

strong agreement !

I'm also in agreement.

Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie are both amazing discs. H@ll I enjoy Machina even, and Ava Adore, all for different reasons.

Saw them over 15 times, and they were always solid, with my only complain being the second to last show they did at the UC, that sucked, the last one made up for it though ;)

They don't really get the credit they deserve I feel, but that's ok with me.

Even if the Pumpkins aren't remembered, I'm pretty sure it's safe to say billy Corgan will be, at least I feel he gets a ton of credit still, much of it deserved.

[SpaceBoy]

Well, be glad you didn't go to a Smashing Pumpkins concert then. I've seen them in concert twice, and both times they were extremely boring. In fact, I'd go as far as saying they had the worst entertainment value out of any major show I've ever been to. They all just stand on stage in one spot doing their thing and never really show any sign of life. I've read many similar reviews of their shows as well.

I never really get this, but I do hear it... I disagree completely, and say if you want to see a boring show go see like the Counting Crows or something, not only is the band boring, the music will put you to sleep even.

Maybe they saved their good shows for Chicago, since that is where Corgan is from.. I can say I saw them a lot of times, and they were always good, but then again I base most of that on simply the musical aspect, and not really looking at it as a performance or a show.. Who knows maybe it's the venues I saw them at, with prob half the shows I saw very tiny like the Aragon, Metro etc.. you're talking < a few thousand if that.

[sherm42]

This thread reminded me to order the Smashing Pumpkins - Greatest Hits Video Collection DVD from Amazon.

Damn, I just checked Amazon, it's 50% off for only $9.99. I just ordered one too. Thanks!

[clckworang]

I'm not saying that SP will be the most popular band 20 years from now, but I think they will still have a decent following. They don't play Velvet Underground or Yardbirds songs on the radio (at least not any of the places that I have lived). There are a lot of bands like that, ones that are very influential and will always be celebrated in music circles or among those really into music.

Look also at a band like the Pixies. They were critically praised when they were making music but were commercial failures. They break up in 1992 and their status and reputation has only grown until this year, where they were selling out shows. I know they weren't playing massive arenas or anything, but the point is that great music doesn't die. And even though Joe Schmo might not remember them 20 years from now, I guarantee you a lot of people will.

[DonnachaOne]

Their early stuff will be remembered.
Their (actually, weirdo Corgan's) later stuff will be forgotten.

I still hear "Today" and "Disarm" on rock radio. Find me a station that plays... um...


... I honestly can't remember the names of any of their latter-day stuff.

[darkessenz]

Remembered....they will have a niche of remembrance. Think jethro tull...except Corgan's talent and his unique voice will be the token instead of Anderson's flute. Overall Mellon Collie is a rock masterpiece, and it was evident that SP had talents that were wideranging and well organized. The slow songs make me want to cry, and their hard shit is crafted, loud and catchy.

Siamese Dream is obviously a landmark album, along with Nevermind. It will always be remembered as a key release, by both buffs and amateurs. Later stuff was more experimental, and so it won't be as important.

They are still my favorite band, and I am still pissed I never saw them in concert. Overall the answer to your question is yes, but to a lesser extent then the more mainstream recognition that Nirvana, Pearl Jam, STP, Radiohead and others will recieve.

[Gunshy]

Um, can a Pumpkins fan clue me in to what happened to them? One day they were everywhere and the next (it seemed) they were gone, replaced by The Next Big Band. Just curious.

-Gunshy

[Michael Corvin]

Corgan walked away to start his other band, while critically acclaimed, dismally failed. Last I heard. That was, what, 5 years ago?

[jpdude]

who indeed. i think the only song of theirs that got any decent amount of exposure via radio airplay was "1979."

[sherm42]

who indeed. i think the only song of theirs that got any decent amount of exposure via radio airplay was "1979."

Maybe in Kentucky. In LA, they were huge and played all the time on KROQ.

I remember heavy airplay for Today, Rocket, Disarm, Mayonaise, Tonight, Tonight, 1979, Zero, Bullet With Butterfly Wings.

[jpdude]

Maybe in Kentucky. In LA, they were huge and played all the time on KROQ.

I remember heavy airplay for Today, Rocket, Disarm, Mayonaise, Tonight, Tonight, 1979, Zero, Bullet With Butterfly Wings.I'm sure that the big difference is that i either listen to mainstream pop or country, and that "1979" was the only one of theirs that was such a huge crossover hit. Someone please correct me if they had another big crossover and i just wasn't paying attention to radio at that time.

[UAIOE]

Ugh..."1979" is one of my least favorite SP songs. :yack: But i do recall that it was the only one to really make it onto the pop station at the time. I didn't start hearing other Pumpkins stuff until i wised up and switched to the then alternative station. Oddly enough, from 1997 to about 2001 I hardly ever heard them play "Tonight Tonight" except for on "block weekends".


But to answer the question...yes. I'd like to think that in 10-20 years they will still be remembered...and hopefully for thier pre-Adore/Billy dressing like Uncle Fester years.

[rondo]

I think that Nirvana album stole some thunder from Gish.

[fliggil]

Um, can a Pumpkins fan clue me in to what happened to them? One day they were everywhere and the next (it seemed) they were gone, replaced by The Next Big Band. Just curious.

-Gunshy

If I remember correctly, the keyboardist who toured with them, Jon Melvoin, died from a heroin overdose while shooting up with drummer Jimmy Chamblerian. The Pumpkins tried to go on without them, I think they even used the drummer from the Foo Fighters for some of their tour while Chamberlain was kicked out or in rehab or something. I guess things kind of spiraled from there, read this quote

"we had reached the end of the road emotionally, spiritually, musically", and that he was tired of "fighting Britney"...Corgan also later attributes the band's breakup to James Iha...(the bassist if I remember correctly), so take what you want

[DamingR]

I would like to think that Siamese Dream will regain some popularity as the years pass. It's their timeless masterpiece, IMHO.

Mayonaise and Geek USA are their two best songs, and probably two of the most underrated songs from the 1990s.

You could make a two or three disc set of their catalog and make an unbelievable package. If they would focus a little less on the radio singles and bring in some of the unreleased songs, it could really rock.

[UAIOE]

I like "Geek USA" and as far as Mellon Collie songs, other than "Tonight Tonight" i skip the other songs released as singles.

"Zero" and "BWBW" are overplay and i never liked "1979"

However, the Pumpkins MC boxset has some other songs on the singles that are much better than the "main songs" Zero is a very good example of this, "God" and "Marque in Spades" are far better than "Zero".

But back to Siamese Dream:

I was really pissed that "Rocket" wasn't included on the greatest hits album though. :mad:

[Sernov]

If I remember correctly, the keyboardist who toured with them, Jon Melvoin, died from a heroin overdose while shooting up with drummer Jimmy Chamblerian. The Pumpkins tried to go on without them, I think they even used the drummer from the Foo Fighters for some of their tour while Chamberlain was kicked out or in rehab or something. I guess things kind of spiraled from there, read this quote

"we had reached the end of the road emotionally, spiritually, musically", and that he was tired of "fighting Britney"...Corgan also later attributes the band's breakup to James Iha...(the bassist if I remember correctly), so take what you want

This is how I remember the beginning of their descent. Some have short memories, but at one time, they were pegged as the band to take the alternative "torch" Nirvana had carried. Coming off the success of Gish, they followed that with the brilliant Siamese Dream, coincidentally right after Cobain passed. Rumors had it that Nirvana was going to headline Lollapalooza '94 and again the Pumpkins were chosen to fill that void.

All in all, Corgan had become his own worst enemy. He had tons and tons of material, but it just went in a different direction than what his fans expected out of him. The outtakes of Siamese, (which made up the Pisces Iscariot LP) were better than their latter material. Like alot of under-rated, under-appreciated bands, there radio friendly hits aren't enough to make them "remembered" by the masses, but everyone else that heard and lived through their experience will. BTW, James Iha was the lead guitarist, D'arcy, the blonde girl was the bassist.

[Osiris]

They will be forgotten fast.

[shaun3000]

Since I'm a Pumpkins fan, I'll throw in my two cents. With two MASTERPIECE albums under their belt, Mellon Collie... and Siamese Dream, I don't see how they could be forgotten. When I listen to oldies and classic rock stations and out of all the WONDERFUL songs from the 50s, 60s, and 70s they also play some of the crap songs, I think the Pumpkins will have no problem being remembered. (They still play the Monkees. That's the equivalent of them playing Backstreet Boys stuff in 40 years)

[Digweedrocks]

No way anyone on a starship is going to remember them if they don't come out with SACD Remasters soon

[mike1978]

This is how I remember the beginning of their descent. Some have short memories, but at one time, they were pegged as the band to take the alternative "torch" Nirvana had carried. Coming off the success of Gish, they followed that with the brilliant Siamese Dream, coincidentally right after Cobain passed.

Siamese Dream came out in the summer of '93, roughly 9 months before Cobain killed himself. Your comments are incorrect.

[lostatmidnight]

So, in retrospect, do the masses of Pumpkins fans still despise 'Adore' and blame it for not just their commercial, but artistic demise? I always liked it, actually it is still one of my favorite albums. Its intricate, poetic and beautiful, and I think---at the time---if the fans would have been a little more mature, and opened their ears, it would have done better critically. I think the real fall came with 'Machina', which is uneven and bloated, the height of Corgan's narcissism.

[thebunk]

I disagree. I was in high school 90-94. When I think of the great bands of the 90's I think

Nirvana
Pearl Jam
STP
Alice in Chains
Soundgarden

and to a lesser degree Weezer, only for the fact the blue album is brilliant. I ALWAYS forget about the Pumpkins.

I think you are wrong. When I think of the top tier 90's bands, there is SP, Nirvana and Pearl Jam. Second tier would be Weezer, Soundgarden, Alice in Chains, etc. I love all of these bands and do not beleive SP will be forgotten. They owned the rock music world from 95 to 97 for a joke. Look at the millions of copies of Mellon COllie sold. The numerous awards won (MTV mostly). 1979 was one of the biggest alternative rock crossover hits, if no THE biggest of that era. I cannot believe anyone that knows anything about music saying that SP will be forgotten.

[Brain Stew]

Siamese Dream came out in the summer of '93, roughly 9 months before Cobain killed himself. Your comments are incorrect.
Yeah. A more correct statement would be that after Cobain killed himself in 1994 and Mellon Collie was released in 1995, the Pumpkins were propelled into the spotlight.

[clckworang]

So, in retrospect, do the masses of Pumpkins fans still despise 'Adore' and blame it for not just their commercial, but artistic demise? I always liked it, actually it is still one of my favorite albums. Its intricate, poetic and beautiful, and I think---at the time---if the fans would have been a little more mature, and opened their ears, it would have done better critically. I think the real fall came with 'Machina', which is uneven and bloated, the height of Corgan's narcissism.


I kind of agree with you here. When Adore came out, I completely tuned it out. It really didn't interest me at all. But recently, a friend of mine let me borrow a copy of it, and I forced myself to listen to it. I was shocked at how much I liked it. I still don't think it holds a candle to Siamese Dream, but it was still very good. I think that Adore has aged real well. If it were to have come out today, I wouldn't be surprised if it did much better, critically and commercially.

[starseed1981]

I've always loved Adore. Loved it when it came out, love it now. I think the reason it was almost universally rejected upon it's reception was because of the expectations set after Mellon Collie was released. People were expecting another huge rock opus. Instead, they got Billy Corgan without his drummer after his mom passed away. The music was / is very arcane (written in 50 & 60's songstyles with 90's technological influences). Even Billy stated that they shouldn've jumped into recorded the album the way they did.

Now my personal feeling on Adore & Machina is that they could've both been hits if the albums weren't overloaded with unradio-friendly songs. Also, they could've had better single choices.

[SpaceBoy]

Corgan walked away to start his other band, while critically acclaimed, dismally failed. Last I heard. That was, what, 5 years ago?

Well Zwam ended about 2 years ago... Which was the group you were referring to that failed. They got pretty good press, but think in the end they failed because of 2 things, schedules, artists had their own bands, so I think they just never really committed, and secondly the music was always being confused or argued over being religious..

He just this summer published a book of original poetry (Corgan) and went on a book tour with that.

Corgan supposedly is set to release his first solo album basically sometime soon.. (not sure of exact dates)

I agree, as I said on page one I enjoy all ablums and really like adore as well, all for different reasons.

[shaun3000]

I read an interview with Corgan. When asked about Zwan, he said it was great but eventually everyone started turning to him; it wasn't a collaborative effort like he apparently had with the Pumpkins. That's why they "broke up."

[Sernov]

Siamese Dream came out in the summer of '93, roughly 9 months before Cobain killed himself. Your comments are incorrect.

I know when Siamese Dream came out. What I tried to get across was that they followed Gish up with SD, and after that, Cobain passed. My bad for the missing comma.

Yeah. A more correct statement would be that after Cobain killed himself in 1994 and Mellon Collie was released in 1995, the Pumpkins were propelled into the spotlight.

Sorry, but you are incorrect. Like I pointed out in my original post, the Pumpkins headlined Lollapalooza in 1994. Back then, that was as big a spotlight as there was. The Pumpkins / Corgan knew this and inspired them to try to create (in his word's) "this generation's Dark Side of the Moon" for '95.

[fumanstan]

I'm a fan of theirs, and Siamese Dream is one of the first CD's i ever bought. That said, i think they will be remembered, but not as an overwhelming success or as anything imensely memorable as other bands during the "generation"

[UAIOE]

So, in retrospect, do the masses of Pumpkins fans still despise 'Adore' and blame it for not just their commercial, but artistic demise? I always liked it, actually it is still one of my favorite albums. Its intricate, poetic and beautiful, and I think---at the time---if the fans would have been a little more mature, and opened their ears, it would have done better critically.

All i can say about the album is that i commend Corgan for going his own route...but i still don't like the album.

I just didn't like the music style used on the album.

I think the real fall came with 'Machina', which is uneven and bloated, the height of Corgan's narcissism.

"Machina" wow...what to say about that album....hmmm...other than Billy being his most whiney on this album (and in full on Uncle Fester mode) the album was to "polished" and overproduced. The music and overall sound on this album rubbed me the wrong way and i am glad i traded away this album. This album more than "Adore" made me want the "old" Pumpkins sound back.

Machina 2 however contained a few gems of songs and that has stopped me from tossing out those "albums".