boredsilly

So I was reading something the other day where someone was commenting on how much of a genius Kanya West is. I dig Kanye's stuff, I really do, but genius? C'mon now. He's good at what he does and has a true talent but that's about it. I also here a lot of people comment and say Jay-Z is a genuis. Again I really love Hova's music, but genius?

From dictionary.com
A.
1. Extraordinary intellectual and creative power.
2. A person of extraordinary intellect and talent: “One is not born a genius, one becomes a genius” (Simone de Beauvoir).
3. A person who has an exceptionally high intelligence quotient, typically above 140.
B.
1. A strong natural talent, aptitude, or inclination: has a genius for choosing the right words.
2. One who has such a talent or inclination: a genius at diplomacy.

I imagine B.1. could fit as far as his talent is concerned, but it seems like the term genius has been watered down. When I think of musical genius I automatically think Beethoven (and other classical composers) or Jazz greats (i.e. Miles & Duke), but my question to you is who do you think are musical geniuses (they don't have to be popular artists, they're just the ones that interest me most) from say about 1950 on up? When you give an example please give a bit of reasoning as well.

The only person that came to my mind was Prince. Just on his musicianship alone (how many instruments does dude not only play but play well? a gabazillion).

Also can a person be considered genius on voice and what they do with that voice alone? Like say Aretha Franklin, or is her voice just considered a "gift" or "talent" with genius being something that you have to work for and aren't born with?

Mike Lowrey

Well, if it's that low, then I guess I would qualify as a genius. I think my I.Q. has been tested to be just at or slightly above that 140 mark. I did one of those on-line I.Q. tests about a year ago and I tested at about 131, if I remember correctly.

But anyway, as far as musical geniuses go, I wouldn't slap that label on hardly any modern-day musicians. If it were a requirement for all of today's artists to go through what the contestants on shows like American Idol go through, a fraction would make it. Because I hear a lot of today's "talent" and I just shake my head and say, "Who told this person that they could sing?"

I look at musical geniuses in a different way. Is their music powerful, does it (and the lyrics) have a message, does it have staying power (ie. timeless)? And quite frankly, there ain't a whole lot of modern musicians that come close to that mark.

I have recently discovered two bands that could possibly fit into that category however. About a year ago, I discovered the band, Iced Earth. It's a power progressive metal band that does a lot of concept albums, and has extremely powerful messages in their songs. Their recent studio album The Glorious Burden is a album of patriotic songs which takes into account most of the battles that the US has been in since its birth almost 230 years ago. From the War of Independence, with the songs "Declaration Day" and "Valley Forge, to the Civil War with an epic 32 minute 3-part song about Gettysburg, a song about the US Marines called "Greenface", to a ballad about 9/11 called "When Eagles Cry". Their other albums also have great messages as well. One whole album is about the Todd McFairlane's SPAWN, called "The Dark Saga". Their first three albums all have a theme with the second two ending in a long epic song. The album before their latest, called "Horror Show" has songs about classic movie monsters. And the album before that called "Something Wicked This Way Comes" has another 3-part song at the end of it that runs 21 minutes total.


The other band that I have very recently discovered is Trans-Siberian Orchestra. It's actually a 60-piece group including about a 45-piece orchrestra, along with a mix-mash of heavy metal musicians, some of which from the band Savatagge. The formed in 1996 and released a, believe it or not, a Christmas album, infusing classical Christmas music and metal guitar work to form a very unique sound that has brought excitement back into tired old Christmas carrols. Their signature song is called "Christmas Eve in Sarejevo (12/24)" Listen to that I can assure you that you'll be hooked if you like metal in any capacity. The switch between classical Christmas tunes and metal guitar backing is hauntingly powerful. Just when you think that the song has calmed down, they hit you over the head with another heart-pounding guitar riff or solo.

Sessa17

You are SO correct for saying Prince. First off Kanye West is a joke & a dime a dozen, sorry all you fans of his.

Second, Prince is beyond brilliant as a musian. I forgot the exact age but he was able to play Beethoven I think by the age of 7-8, & there is video of him as a little kid playing stuff that grown men would need years of classical training to play. He is also an un-F'n-believable guitar playing. The stuff he can do is unreal & he makes it look uneasy.

I really think you need to be a musician though or know a lot about music to fairly declare who a genius is. I mean, just b.c you like someone, does not mean they are genius. You may like Dave Mathews for instance, but the guy is a far cry from musical genius.

I think someone that definitely is one, & I don't even care for the guy's music is Billy Joel. Extremely diverse, knows the art like few do.

I think another group of people & this may piss some people off, but musically Phish, especially Trey are genius. Their structure of their songs are incredible. The speed at which they can switch from different tempos in different scales is amazing. Trey is one of those few guitarist that could perform any genre of music he wishes & do it all at the highest level.

El Talon Del Monstruo

Stevie Wonder

ok you can lock the thread now

foofighters7

Tom Waits. Brillant original music, great actor, hilarious. what else do you need.

But Yeah Prince too, has always been one of my favs.

PopcornTreeCt

John Lennon -don't know of too many that are still alive.

wendersfan

As much as I hate his music, I'd say Tom Scholz of Boston is a very bright man - M.I.T.-trained engineer, invented the Rockman, recorded the first Boston album in his home studio in his spare time. Clearly a highly intelligent, creative, and motivated individual.

But as I said, I really hate his music... Irony, eh?

Oh, and Ruben Blades is probably pretty smart, as is Peter Garrett, from Midnight Oil. Both are lawyers and I think each held elective office at one point as well.

tommyp007

Strong Agreement on Prince, Billy Joel and Stevie. Can'r really think of any one else in their league at the moment.

astrochimp

Jack White

wendersfan

You think Jack White is a genius? As in, he's exceptionally bright? Sorry, but , and I like The White Stripes' music a lot.

Gdrlv

I was going to say Trey actually...for most of the reasons you mention. In addition to what you wrote, he's actually composing orchestral pieces now (and they're good!). Listen to "Guyute (Orchestral)" for the best example.

In addition to being a fantastic guitarist, he's also very good at drums and keyboards...particularly drums.

Prince is another fantastic example...so underrated as a guitarist.

astrochimp

I'm sorry,i meant Meg White.

Aphex Twin

James Brown
Brian Wilson
Richard D. James
Phil Spector
Stevie Wonder
Bob Dylan

bdrules

Jeff Tweedy
Ray Charles
Miles Davis
George Harrison
etc...etc...

But yeah, a lot of these guys have died....
To me a musical genius has to break new ground, do something new. I'm a musician, and just being able to play an instrument well doesn't really make you a genious. That's just talent. Genius has to do with the creation of something. I know people that think it's heresy to say that Dave Matthews isn't a genius, but hey...

Brian

Tscott

I'll second Richard D. James.

And add Van Morrison- Astral Weeks is a masterpiece. John Linnell and John Flansburg of They Might Be Giants, for their brilliant songwriting. Also Lucinda Williams for her songwriting. And Bjork for just being Bjork.

Aghama

Primo.

auto

Frank Zappa

milo bloom

I think Jack White needs more "time in rank", but I do see a lot of potential in the White Stripes music. Maybe not the lyrics or music individually, but the way they come together seems bigger than the sum of the parts to my ears.

I agree with Prince and several others and also have to throw a bone towards Trey Parker and Matt Stone of South Park. Maybe it's just the contrast to the themes of the show, but the way they can write stuff that slices so deep, and can show so many influences, esp seeing how (if I read right) they make each episode in two weeks or less. The part in BLU where the parents, La Resistance and Satan's songs all blend together is pretty impressive to me.

DRG

To me, to be classified a musical genius you have to stand some test of time. You also have to either a) break new ground musically/be a pioneer, b) have a wealth of great material (that you wrote/produced) under your belt, or c) exhibit a skill with your instrument that blows everyone else away.

As for Kanye, he is possibly the best hip hop writer/producer currently out there, and he's not a bad performer either. But he's still got a LONG way to go...

P.E.

I can't believe only one other person has mentioned Brian Wilson.

Gil Jawetz

And to the idea of bringing up the Trans Siberian Whatever in a thread about musical geniuses...

And for my own list, Tom Waits is a terrific choice. Also, Frank Black/Charles Thompson/Black Francis.

As far as hip-hop is concerned, I don't get the whole Jay Z thing. His lyrics are nothing but cliches and his delivery stinks: He sounds like he's out of breath all the time. He was no genius but Biggie's delivery was way more interesting and unique. A musical genius in hip hop is more like a behind the scenes guy: Rick Rubin, Dr. Dre or the Bomb Squad.

Calculon

Bill Monroe

Lee Scratch Perry

Curtis Mayfield

Hank Williams

SlingshotBandit

I agree with some of the other suggestions, but allow me to add a hidden gem -- Jon Brion. A genius, musically speaking.

Tarantino

Eminem.

auto