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Old 12-09-04, 11:51 PM
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20/20 - 12/10/04: John Stossel Interviews Michael Crichton on New Environmental Novel

From John Stossel's weekly email (I am on his email list):

Friday on "20/20" I talk to Michael Crichton about his new book, "State of Fear," which made me laugh with delight, because the villains are ... well, I won't tell, because I don't want to give the plot away. But finally! A star Hollywood writer/producer is scientifically literate. The "Jurassic Park" author spent three years doing climate research and discovered what he'd heard about global warming made little sense. But he almost didn't write "State of Fear" because he knew it would anger his friends. I'm glad he wrote it, and OK, I'll give it away: the villains are environmental groups! What a switch! In my interview with Crichton, he says: "environmental organizations are fomenting false fears in order to promote agendas and raise money."
I'm reading this book right now and enjoying it thoroughly. I am very much looking forward to seeing this interview.

Edit: 9:00pm CST (10:00pm EST).

Last edited by movielib; 12-09-04 at 11:59 PM.
Old 12-10-04, 12:16 AM
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John Stossel is one of the few journalists left in network television who actually uses common sense as a tool in his reporting. It is a pleasure to listen to his stories.
Old 12-10-04, 10:45 AM
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Looking forward to it.

If I could force people to watch 2 things shown on television, it would be Stossel 'Give Me a Break' segments and Penn & Teller Bullshit.
Old 12-10-04, 12:14 PM
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"environmental organizations are fomenting false fears in order to promote agendas and raise money."
This is such a colossally ridiculous accusation, whenever I see it lodged against ANY group, I have to laugh. So they make up stuff, so they can raise money to promote their agenda of stopping the stuff they made up?
Old 12-10-04, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by ben12
So they make up stuff, so they can raise money to promote their agenda of stopping the stuff they made up?
Yes.

See also: The Rainbow Coilition
Old 12-10-04, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Needle
John Stossel is one of the few journalists left in network television who actually uses common sense as a tool in his reporting.
I'll be tuning in.
Old 12-10-04, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ben12
This is such a colossally ridiculous accusation, whenever I see it lodged against ANY group, I have to laugh. So they make up stuff, so they can raise money to promote their agenda of stopping the stuff they made up?
http://www.greeningearthsociety.org/.../wca_9bpf.html

In one of the most famous gaffes in the history of persistent exaggeration of global warming by scientists who know better, Stanford University’s Steven Schneider takes the prize. He told Discover in 1989 that scientists are “ethically bound to….tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but” with the caveat that they are “human beings as well.” That “translates into our working to reduce the risk of potentially disastrous climate change,” he said. In pursuit of that goal scientists “have to get some broad-based support, to capture the public’s imagination. That, of course, entails getting loads of media coverage. So we have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements.” Ethically, Schneider says, it is up to climate scientists to “decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest.”
Old 12-10-04, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Needle
John Stossel is one of the few journalists left in network television who actually uses common sense as a tool in his reporting. It is a pleasure to listen to his stories.
He's also one of the many journalists who presents the least scientific "scientific evidence" to support his claims.
Old 12-10-04, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by ben12
He's also one of the many journalists who presents the least scientific "scientific evidence" to support his claims.
You mean all those "scientific" reporters who just regurgitate back whatever the environmental movement feeds them?
Old 12-10-04, 03:01 PM
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This might be better than the actual show





Old 12-10-04, 03:08 PM
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I want to know how many journalists can present the least evidence of something.
Old 12-10-04, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by movielib
You mean all those "scientific" reporters who just regurgitate back whatever the environmental movement feeds them?
No, I mean unlike the science writers who report the results of empirical studies published in peer-reviewed journals.
Old 12-10-04, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by ben12
No, I mean unlike the science writers who report the results of empirical studies published in peer-reviewed journals.
Ah, like work by

Patrick Michaels

http://www.cato.org/people/michaels.html

Robert Balling

http://geography.asu.edu/balling/

Richard Lindzen

http://www-eaps.mit.edu/faculty/lindzen.htm

and Fred Singer

http://www.sepp.org/bios/singer/cvsfs.html

Oh wait, they are all global warming skeptics (and there are a lot more). But your "scientific" reporters keep telling us things such as "no serious scientist in the fields of climatology, meteorology or physics doesn't believe in the reality of global warming [most do believe there is warming but on a much milder level], that humans are the main or a large component and we're all gonna die when the glaciers on Greenland and Antarctica melt" (Note: typical type of statement, not direct quote.) So I guess these people don't exist.

The fact is that many scientists, including those in the most relevant fields, do not buy much, most or nearly all of this stuff and they have the evidence to back up their positions. You might try looking beyond "what everybody knows."
Old 12-10-04, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by movielib
Ah, like work by

Patrick Michaels

http://www.cato.org/people/michaels.html

Robert Balling

http://geography.asu.edu/balling/

Richard Lindzen

http://www-eaps.mit.edu/faculty/lindzen.htm

and Fred Singer

http://www.sepp.org/bios/singer/cvsfs.html

Oh wait, they are all global warming skeptics (and there are a lot more). But your "scientific" reporters keep telling us things such as "no serious scientist in the fields of climatology, meteorology or physics doesn't believe in the reality of global warming [most do believe there is warming but on a much milder level], that humans are the main or a large component and we're all gonna die when the glaciers on Greenland and Antarctica melt" (Note: typical type of statement, not direct quote.) So I guess these people don't exist.

The fact is that many scientists, including those in the most relevant fields, do not buy much, most or nearly all of this stuff and they have the evidence to back up their positions. You might try looking beyond "what everybody knows."
Interesting because I know and work with scientists who would disagree that human-caused global warming is an illusion or is made up.
Old 12-10-04, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by ben12
Interesting because I know and work with scientists who would disagree that human-caused global warming is an illusion or is made up.
And who said there aren't?

And even most of the skeptics think there is a component of human contribution but it's so small that anything we did would have virtually no effect but would cost trillions, harming economies all over the world.

What is sickening to me is that almost all the mainstream press pushes the big lie that there is near unanimity on global warming. Also, check those reports you think are so great. Many of them just repeat, often word for word, a press release they got from some environmental group. Stossel, whether or not you agree with him, doesn't do that.
Old 12-10-04, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ben12
Interesting because I know and work with scientists who would disagree that human-caused global warming is an illusion or is made up.
Since when does being a "scientist" qualify a person in anyway to be an expert on climatology?! Are you going to let a archaeologist give you open heart surgery? People should know they are being treated like 3rd graders and lied to the second they say "All scientists agree"....but people aren't that smart really.
Old 12-10-04, 08:42 PM
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Was last weeks episode the one where they were naming names about who was taking steroids? If so, who was named? Is there a link anywhere on it?
Old 12-10-04, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by movieking
Was last weeks episode the one where they were naming names about who was taking steroids? If so, who was named? Is there a link anywhere on it?
Conte specifically named Marion Jones and Tim Montgomery, going so far as to insist that he sat next to Jones as she injected herself. Kelli White was also on to detail her experiences with BALCO's doping processes.
Old 12-10-04, 09:48 PM
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Thanks. I totally forgot about it.

After watching the piece on the Amish, I started to wonder about what happened to all of the Amish kids on Amish in the City. I watched a few of these episodes, but gave up on it since it really wasn't that good.

Anyone know what happened to them? Who went back to the Amish and who didn't? If I had to guess, I would say that they all went back.
Old 12-10-04, 10:01 PM
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the tipping thing had me laughing my ass off
Old 12-10-04, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by kvrdave
This might be better than the actual show
Or better than a Michael Crichton novel, at any rate.
Old 12-10-04, 10:50 PM
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There wasn't much to the interview. It was less than ten minutes with much of that being Stossel's narration. Not really much talk about the book. You'll just have to read it. I'm about ¾ of the way through it and while it's more or less a standard thriller, not great, not bad, the global warming stuff is a real education.

Crichton has guts, that's for sure. 9/10 of Hollywood is going to hate what he's done. What do you all think the chances are of State of Fear being made into a movie as almost all Crichton books are?

Last edited by movielib; 12-10-04 at 10:59 PM.
Old 12-11-04, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Verbal Gorilla
Since when does being a "scientist" qualify a person in anyway to be an expert on climatology?! Are you going to let a archaeologist give you open heart surgery? People should know they are being treated like 3rd graders and lied to the second they say "All scientists agree"....but people aren't that smart really.
I never said they were archeologists. Sounds like you've got an agenda.
Old 12-11-04, 07:09 PM
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I found a list of some of the many scientists skeptical of the global warming hysteria. This quite obviously shows the "near unanimity" we always are told about is a big lie. These are not just any scientists but prominent in the relevant fields of climatolgy, meteorology, climate history, oceanography, solar activity, atmospheric science etc.

http://www.envirotruth.org/myth_experts.cfm

(To make better sense of the chart, click on the above link.)

Dr. Richard S. Lindzen Alfred P. Sloan Professor of Meteorology, Department of Earth, Atmospheric and Planetary Sciences, Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), Cambridge, MA 02139 [email protected] 617-253-2432 or 617-332-4342 www-eaps.mit.edu/faculty/lindzen.htm 1, 1a, 1b, 3
Dr. Tim Patterson Professor - Dept of Earth Sciences (Paleoclimatology) - Carleton University, Ottawa [email protected] 613-520-2600
ext. 4425 www.carleton.ca/~tpatters/index_flash.html and http://www.carleton.ca/Museum/scienc.../patterson.wav. 1, 1c, 3, 4, 6
Dr. Tim Ball Environmental Consultant - 32 years climatology Professor - University of Winnipeg [email protected] 250-380-7784 http://www.hamiltonspectator.com 1, 1a, 1b, 3, 4, 5, 6
Dr. Paul Copper, FRSC Professor of Geology, Department of Earth Sciences, Laurentian University, Sudbury, Canada [email protected] and [email protected] 705-675-1151 ext. 2267 http://laurentian.ca/geology/FACULTY/COPPER.HTML 1, 1c, 3
Dr. James O'Brien Robert 0. Lawton Distinguished Professor of Meteorology and Oceanography; Director, Center for Ocean-Atmospheric Prediction Studies, Florida State University, Tallahassee, FL [email protected] 850-644-4581 http://www.coaps.fsu.edu/bios/obrien.html 1, 5, 6
Dr. Madhav Khandekar Environmental Consultant - 25 years with Environment Canada in Meteorology [email protected] 905-940-0105 http://www.nationalpost.com 1, 1a, 3, 4, 5
William Kininmonth Managing Director, Australasian Climate Research, Kew, Australia [email protected] (03) 9853 9395; Mob. 0418 376 236 http://www.lavoisier.com.au/papers/a...matechange.pdf 1, 1b, 5
Dr. Ian Clark Professor, Isotope Hydrogeology and Paleoclimatology, Department of Earth Sciences (arctic specialist), University of Ottawa [email protected] 613-562-5838 http://www.science.uottawa.ca/est/en...ark/Clark.html 1, 6, 7
Dr. Tad Murty Climate researcher. Previously Senior Research Scientist for Fisheries and Oceans (DFO); conducted official DFO climate change/sea level review for the Pacific and Arctic coasts of Canada; Former Director of the National Tidal Facility of Australia; Current editor - "Natural Hazards" [email protected] 613-731-8900(W); 613-739-5445 (H) http://www.baird.com; http://www.kluweronline.com/issn/0921-030x 1, 2, 6, 7
Dr. Kenneth Green Director, Centre for Studies in Risk, Regulation, and Environment, The Fraser Institute, Vancouver, B.C. [email protected] 604-688-0221 http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/enviro...ex.asp?snav=en 1, 1a, 1b, 3, 4, 8, 9
Dr. Fred Michel Professor - Dept of Earth Sciences (Permafrost specialty) Carleton University, Ottawa [email protected] (613) 520 2600 ext. 4428 www.earthsci.carleton.ca/Personnel/Michel.html 1c, 6, 7
Dr. Sallie Baliunas Astrophysicist - Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics - specialist in understanding the Sun/climate connection. [email protected] 617-495-7415 http://www.hillsdale.edu/imprimis/20...ch/default.htm 1, 3
Dr. Willie Soon Astrophysicist - Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics - specialist in understanding the Sun/climate connection. [email protected] 617-495-7488 http://www.environment.harvard.edu/h..._WILLIE_H.html - see also www.oism.org/pproject/s33p36.htm 1, 3
Dr. Chris Essex Professor of Applied Mathematics, University of Western Ontario - focuses on underlying physics/math to complex climate systems. [email protected] www.takenbystorm.info 1,1a, 1b, 2
Dr. Ian Plimer Professor and Chair, Department of Geology, The University of Melbourne, Australia [email protected] 0061.421.089651 (mobile phone, +11 hours GMT in N. Hemisphere winter, +9 hrs GMT in N. Hemisphere summer) http://www.austehc.unimelb.edu.au/um...s/UMFS070b.htm and http://www.unimelb.edu.au/ExtRels/Me...a/02aug13.html 1, 1a, 1c, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7
Dr. Fred Singer President of The Science & Environmental Policy Project, Distinguished Research Professor at George Mason University, Professor Emeritus of environmental science at University of Virginia. [email protected] 703-920-2744 www.sepp.org 1, 1b, 2, 3, 4, 6
Dr. Pat Michaels Research Professor - Dept of Environmental Sciences - University of Virginia [email protected] 434-924-0549 http://www.evsc.virginia.edu/faculty...michaels.shtml 1, 1a, 1b, 2, 3
Dr. Roger Peilke Professor and Colorado State Climatologist; Current President of the American Association of State Climatologists [email protected] 970-491-8293 blue.atmos.colostate.edu 1, 1a, 1b, 2
Dr. Gary D. Sharp Scientific Director, Center for Climate/Ocean Resources Study, Salinas, California. [email protected] 831-449-9212 (9-5 PST only) http://sharpgary.org and http://sharpgary.org/FutureFish.zip 1, 1a, 1b, 2
Professor Dr. Zbigniew Jaworowski Professor at the Central Laboratory for Radiological Protection (CLOR), Warsaw, Poland; Chairman of the scientific council of CLOR [email protected] (+48-22) 754-4434 1, 2, 5
Dr. William M. Gray Professor of Atmospheric Science, Colorado State University [email protected] 970-491-8681 http://www.atmos.colostate.edu/dept/...bers/gray.html 1, 1b, 1c, 2, 3
Dr. Fred Seitz Past President, U.S. National Academy of Sciences, President Emeritus, Rockefeller University, New York, NY [email protected]; [email protected] 212-327-8423 www.rockefeller.edu/research/eme.htm andwww.oism.org/pproject/ 1, 1b, 1c, 2, 3
George Taylor Oregon State Meteorologist, Oregon Climate Service, Oregon State University and the Past President of the Association of State Meteorologists. [email protected] 541-737-5705 www.ocs.orst.edu/ and especially www.sitewave.net/news/s49p628.htm 1b, 1c, 2, 4, 5
Dr. Sonja Boehmer-Christiansen Reader, Department of Geography, University of Hull, Hull HU6 7RX, UK
Editor, Energy & Environment [email protected] (0)1482 465349/6341/5385 http://www.hull.ac.uk/geog/html/boehmer.html 1, 1a, 1b, 2
Dipl.-Ing. Peter Dietze energy and climate consultant, officialscientific IPCC TAR ReviewerFrankenstr. 9 D-91094 Langensendelbach, Germany [email protected] Phone & Fax
+49/9133-5371 www.john-daly.com/forcing/moderr.htm 1, 1a, 1b, 2
Dr. Sherwood Idso President of the Center for the Study of Carbon Dioxide and Global Change [email protected] 480-966-3719 www.CO2science.com/center.htm 1b, 3, 4
Dr. David Wojick, P.E. an independent journalist and policy analyst, specializing in Kyoto issues - science, technology, politics and policy [email protected] 540-858-3503 www.bydesign.com/powervision/resume.html 1, 1a, 1b, 4
Dr. Art Robinson of OISM Founder - Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine - focus on climate change and CO2 [email protected] 541-592-4142 www.oism.org/pproject/ 1b, 2, 3, 4
Dr. Robert Balling Director - Office of Climatology, Arizona State University [email protected] 480-965-6265 geography.asu.edu/balling/ 1, 1a, 1b, 2, 3, 5
Dr. Chris de Freitas Professor, School of Geography and Environmental Science, University of Auckland, New Zealand [email protected] or [email protected] http://www.geog.auckland.ac.nz 1, 1a, 1b, 2
Dr. Petr Chylek Professor of Physics and Atmospheric Science - Dalhousie University [email protected] 902-494-2337 www.physics.dal.ca/people/PChylek/PChylek.html 1, 1a, 3, 7
Hans Erren, MSc. Geophysical consultant, The Hague, The Netherlands. - focusses on data processing, climate sensitivity and the history of climate science. [email protected] http://members.lycos.nl/ErrenWijlens/cooling.html 1, 2, 3, 6
Dr. Ross McKitrick Professor of environmental economics at the University of Guelph - also expert in the science [email protected] 519-824-4120 ext 2532 www.uoguelph.ca/~rmckitri/cc.html 1, 1b
Cdr. M.R. (Dick) Morgan, PhD, RCN (Retd.) Climate Consultant to major government organizations - Dartmouth, Nova Scotia [email protected] 902-435-4234 1, 1a, 1b, 2, 6
Dr. Hugh W. Ellsaesser Atmospheric Consultant - previously with the Lawrence Livermore Laboratory, CA [email protected] 510-447-3834 1, 1a, 1b, 2, 3
Dr. Asmunn Moene Former head of the National ForecastingCenter,Meteorological Institute,Oslo,Norway [email protected] 472-252-3966 http://home.c2i.net/asmoene unspecified
Prof. Dr. Kirill Ya. Kondratyev Academician, Counsellor RAS, Research Centre for Ecological Safety, Russian Academy of Sciences and Nansen International Environmental and Remote Sensing Centre, St.-Petersburg, RUSSIA [email protected] +7 (812) 230-78-37 (office)+7 (812) 322-29-67 (home) 1, 1a, 1b, 1c, 2
Dr. Craig D. Idso Chairman, Center for the Study of Carbon Dioxide and Global Change; P.O. Box 25697Tempe, AZ 85285-5697 [email protected] 480-664-4921 www.co2science.org 1b, 3, 4
David Nowell, M.Sc. (Meteorology) Fellow of the Royal Meteorological Society, Canadian member and Past Chairman of the NATO Meteorological Group, Ottawa [email protected] 613-820-8676 1, 1a, 1b, 1c, 2
Paavo Siitam Agronomist (soil chemistry, fertility and microbiology) http://plantseatco2.blogspot.com/ 1, 1b, 3, 4
Dr. Paal Brekke Paal is a solar physicist at the European Space Agency, Norway - a vocal skeptic. [email protected] http://solarsystem.estec.esa.nl 1, 3
Dr. Lee C. Gerhard Principal Geologist, Kansas Geological Survey; Adjunct Professor, Colorado School of Mines; Noted author and geological expert on climate history. [email protected] 785-550-3988;
785-749-7440 1, 1c, 2, 3, 4
Dr. Roger Pocklington (deceased 2004) Researcher - Bedford Institute of Oceanography http://www.envirotruth.org/globalWar...ineMatters.cfm 1, 1a, 1b, 2, 6
Dr. Theodor Landscheidt (deceased 2004) Solar/climate researcher Schroeter Institute for Research in Cycles of Solar Activity Klammerfelsweg 5, 93449 Waldmuenchen, Germany http://www.john-daly.com/solar/solar.htm
Also, from the same page, links to statements signed by thousands of scientists opposed to Kyoto and skeptical of the global warming hypothesis:

1. See the Heidelberg Appeal at http://www.sepp.org/heidelberg_appeal.html where 3,000 scientists, including 72 Nobel Prize winners, from 106 countries, have now signed the appeal. They warn of the "irrational ideology" driving global-warming science.

2. See also the anti-Kyoto Leipzig Declaration (at http://www.sepp.org/leipzig.html, which has attracted the signatures of 1,500 scientists (see http://www.sepp.org/LDsigs.html).

3. Finally Dr. Robinson's OISM petition whose 17,000 signatories have endorsed the statement, "there is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gases is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth's atmosphere and disruption of the Earth's climate." - see http://www.oism.org/oism/s32p31.htm

Last edited by movielib; 12-11-04 at 07:29 PM.
Old 12-11-04, 09:07 PM
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I was very disappointed by the segment. Why did they mention hybrid cars and celebrity commercials about reducing dependence on foreign oil? Sort of missing the mark as far as exposing the truth about global warming science.


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