So Fox TV Has Hit A New Low! :furious: ;)
11-30-04, 10:18 AM
#1
Guest
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Glendale, next to L.A.
Posts: 18,484
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
So Fox TV Has Hit A New Low! :furious: ;)
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...on_comedies_dc
Stymied by Sitcom Flops, Networks Vow Shakeup
Mon Nov 29, 6:45 AM ET Entertainment - Reuters TV
By Andrew Wallenstein
NEW YORK (Hollywood Reporter) - It was while watching his network's Thanksgiving-night tribute to "Seinfeld" that NBC Entertainment president Kevin Reilly recalled why today's primetime comedies don't measure up.
What struck Reilly about the sitcom's creators, Jerry Seinfeld and Larry David, was not their intuitive grasp of the format. It was what they didn't understand about it when they embarked on their storied sitcom.
"They just had no idea what they were doing," he said. "They knew what made them laugh, but they knew none of the rules. As a result, 'Seinfeld' ended up not looking like any show that has come before it or, frankly, come after it."
Of his own programing strategy, Reilly said: "I'm just trying to find what rules can we break. And then let's try to break them."
The same anarchic spirit is infiltrating all the broadcast networks as the traditional buying period for comedy development for the coming 2005-06 TV season winds down. As yet another fall crop of new and returning comedies underperform -- with the notable exception of CBS' "Two and a Half Men" -- network development slates are filling up with off-kilter formats and themes. NBC and Fox seem the most adventurous, but even ABC and CBS -- networks with their own distinctive brand of family and blue-collar comedies -- may be ready to take some creative chances, too.
"There's a real willingness to experiment," said Jamie Erlicht, senior vp development and network programing at Sony Pictures Television. "Each network is a little bit different, but all of them are trying to shake up the half-hour form."
Interviews with more than 20 executives at the broadcast networks, studios and talent agencies affirm that desperation is encouraging more experimentation than ever. But tempering that sentiment is a deeply ingrained skepticism shared by many over whether networks will walk the talk next fall.
"I would be surprised if we didn't end up with more of the same," one studio chief lamented.
Traditional family-oriented sitcoms are still quite well represented on development slates. But there are plenty of others that stray from the living-room couch or coffee shop, where many sitcoms are centered; NBC is considering one set in a retirement community and another in a trailer park. And the usual cavalcade of stand-up comics are seeing some of their spots taken by more marketable pop stars such as the rock band Barenaked Ladies (news - web sites) (Fox) and Melissa Etheridge (news) (ABC).
And then there's a few real howlers: Fox brass are said to be particularly high on a project that one could dub "That '70s B.C. Show": It imagines Jesus as a slacker teen under pressure from his parents -- God and Mary -- to enter the family carpentry business. NBC has one about a newly single woman who loses 300 pounds -- after dumping her 300-pound husband. Another project making the rounds depicts the friendship between a divorcee and a gay ghost.
All this quirkiness bears the influence of cable, where such innovative programing as Comedy Central's "Chappelle's Show" and HBO's "Curb Your Enthusiasm" has spawned renewed interest in sketch and improvisational formats. Given the gradual parity the cable audience is reaching with that of broadcast, concepts once deemed too niche now seem viable, executives say.
Comedy programing on broadcast television may have had its obituary written prematurely before, as CBS' "Men" has demonstrated, but the genre is certainly on its sickbed. All of the new sitcoms that premiered this fall are sinking or at least treading water, while many of the returning half-hours that have managed to make a splash -- from NBC's "Scrubs" to Fox's "Arrested Development" -- are fading. The holes left by "Friends" and "Frasier" last year will only seem more glaring when "Everybody Loves Raymond" joins them in retirement.
But Fox executive vp programing Craig Erwich spots a silver lining in the dark cloud hovering over the genre. "The good thing is, it forces you to be open about what can be developed," he said. "It challenges notions of what can and can't work."
Industry veterans are finding that the old genre descriptions of comedy -- family, workplace, urban, rural -- are slowly being replaced by a new set of buzzwords, including "form-breakers" and "promote-ability." One holdover, however, still reigns stronger than ever: "distinctive point of view." "It's the most important thing, no matter what the form," Sony's Erlicht said.
To find those points of view, broadcasters are casting a wider net than usual. Several agents said that their greater inclination is to hear ideas from film writers, playwrights, novelists and ad copywriters -- even lower-rung industry folks are getting a shot. "It used to be, if you wanted to bring a co-producer or producer for a pitch, (networks) didn't want to hear it," one senior agent said. "Now they want to hear just about anything."
More open minds at the networks also are a reflection of a lesson learned -- re-learned, really -- from the ABC hit "Desperate Housewives." Absent the breakout new series that typically drives droves of copycats in development, the most influential comedy on the air is actually a drama (one ABC has submitted as a comedy for the Golden Globes to capitalize on the category's weak competition).
That "Housewives" creator/executive producer Marc Cherry -- a veteran comedy writer who struck out with his last few projects, including the short-lived 2001 CBS comedy "Some of My Best Friends" -- succeeded with a serialized soap opera amid a sea of procedural dramas from top-shelf producers is now cited as inspiration for countering conventional wisdom when there's little left to lose.
Cherry's breakthrough has served the comedy world a timely reminder: The best scripts are almost always conceived by a fresh voice. That held true for the breakout comedies of recent years, including "Malcolm in the Middle" (Linwood Boomer) "Will & Grace" (David Kohan and Max Mutchnick) and, of course, "Seinfeld" (David and Seinfeld).
Still, the traditional sitcom is in no danger of extinction; even HBO has signaled its intent to invade this territory. Lee Dinstman, executive vp at Agency for the Performing Arts, says their syndication value is too rich to ignore.
That's abundantly clear at CBS, where "Men" is shaping up to be the next syndication bonanza, with ratings rivaling lead-in "Raymond." The network played it safe this season by installing more family comedies that imitate "Raymond's" bumbling-dad conceit, including "Listen Up" and "Center of the Universe," both of which were recently picked up for additional episodes.
However, sources say CBS might shake up its comedy offerings next season. Development executives there are expected to focus on workplace comedies and female-driven fare -- Jenna Elfman (news), Holly Robinson Peete, Aisha Tyler and Susie Essman are among the actresses being considered for their own vehicles. All those close-knit families currently on CBS' schedule might also soon rub up against a little turbulence; the network has at least six projects in development that deal with divorce.
ABC might also get antsy: Despite riding high with "Housewives" and "Lost," the network's Tuesday and Friday comedy blocks will likely need fresh blood next season. Family fare may step aside for potential form-breakers like a vehicle for "Saturday Night Live" alum Chris Kattan with touches of "Curb"-like improvisation and broad physical comedy as well as an Elton John (news)-produced chronicle of an aging rock star.
Nevertheless, pessimism runs high that all these unorthodox projects will be around in September. "Development season represents what the networks want to be," one literary agent said. "Their schedule in the fall is what they are."
Reuters/Hollywood Reporter
Now let me get this out of the way by saying, yes I am a Christian, but I think even if I were not a Christian this is just a pathetic attempt at bad humor. Soon they will be pitching a 'Pretty Woman' sitcom with a 'young' Mother Teresa.
Chris
Stymied by Sitcom Flops, Networks Vow Shakeup
Mon Nov 29, 6:45 AM ET Entertainment - Reuters TV
By Andrew Wallenstein
NEW YORK (Hollywood Reporter) - It was while watching his network's Thanksgiving-night tribute to "Seinfeld" that NBC Entertainment president Kevin Reilly recalled why today's primetime comedies don't measure up.
What struck Reilly about the sitcom's creators, Jerry Seinfeld and Larry David, was not their intuitive grasp of the format. It was what they didn't understand about it when they embarked on their storied sitcom.
"They just had no idea what they were doing," he said. "They knew what made them laugh, but they knew none of the rules. As a result, 'Seinfeld' ended up not looking like any show that has come before it or, frankly, come after it."
Of his own programing strategy, Reilly said: "I'm just trying to find what rules can we break. And then let's try to break them."
The same anarchic spirit is infiltrating all the broadcast networks as the traditional buying period for comedy development for the coming 2005-06 TV season winds down. As yet another fall crop of new and returning comedies underperform -- with the notable exception of CBS' "Two and a Half Men" -- network development slates are filling up with off-kilter formats and themes. NBC and Fox seem the most adventurous, but even ABC and CBS -- networks with their own distinctive brand of family and blue-collar comedies -- may be ready to take some creative chances, too.
"There's a real willingness to experiment," said Jamie Erlicht, senior vp development and network programing at Sony Pictures Television. "Each network is a little bit different, but all of them are trying to shake up the half-hour form."
Interviews with more than 20 executives at the broadcast networks, studios and talent agencies affirm that desperation is encouraging more experimentation than ever. But tempering that sentiment is a deeply ingrained skepticism shared by many over whether networks will walk the talk next fall.
"I would be surprised if we didn't end up with more of the same," one studio chief lamented.
Traditional family-oriented sitcoms are still quite well represented on development slates. But there are plenty of others that stray from the living-room couch or coffee shop, where many sitcoms are centered; NBC is considering one set in a retirement community and another in a trailer park. And the usual cavalcade of stand-up comics are seeing some of their spots taken by more marketable pop stars such as the rock band Barenaked Ladies (news - web sites) (Fox) and Melissa Etheridge (news) (ABC).
And then there's a few real howlers: Fox brass are said to be particularly high on a project that one could dub "That '70s B.C. Show": It imagines Jesus as a slacker teen under pressure from his parents -- God and Mary -- to enter the family carpentry business. NBC has one about a newly single woman who loses 300 pounds -- after dumping her 300-pound husband. Another project making the rounds depicts the friendship between a divorcee and a gay ghost.
All this quirkiness bears the influence of cable, where such innovative programing as Comedy Central's "Chappelle's Show" and HBO's "Curb Your Enthusiasm" has spawned renewed interest in sketch and improvisational formats. Given the gradual parity the cable audience is reaching with that of broadcast, concepts once deemed too niche now seem viable, executives say.
Comedy programing on broadcast television may have had its obituary written prematurely before, as CBS' "Men" has demonstrated, but the genre is certainly on its sickbed. All of the new sitcoms that premiered this fall are sinking or at least treading water, while many of the returning half-hours that have managed to make a splash -- from NBC's "Scrubs" to Fox's "Arrested Development" -- are fading. The holes left by "Friends" and "Frasier" last year will only seem more glaring when "Everybody Loves Raymond" joins them in retirement.
But Fox executive vp programing Craig Erwich spots a silver lining in the dark cloud hovering over the genre. "The good thing is, it forces you to be open about what can be developed," he said. "It challenges notions of what can and can't work."
Industry veterans are finding that the old genre descriptions of comedy -- family, workplace, urban, rural -- are slowly being replaced by a new set of buzzwords, including "form-breakers" and "promote-ability." One holdover, however, still reigns stronger than ever: "distinctive point of view." "It's the most important thing, no matter what the form," Sony's Erlicht said.
To find those points of view, broadcasters are casting a wider net than usual. Several agents said that their greater inclination is to hear ideas from film writers, playwrights, novelists and ad copywriters -- even lower-rung industry folks are getting a shot. "It used to be, if you wanted to bring a co-producer or producer for a pitch, (networks) didn't want to hear it," one senior agent said. "Now they want to hear just about anything."
More open minds at the networks also are a reflection of a lesson learned -- re-learned, really -- from the ABC hit "Desperate Housewives." Absent the breakout new series that typically drives droves of copycats in development, the most influential comedy on the air is actually a drama (one ABC has submitted as a comedy for the Golden Globes to capitalize on the category's weak competition).
That "Housewives" creator/executive producer Marc Cherry -- a veteran comedy writer who struck out with his last few projects, including the short-lived 2001 CBS comedy "Some of My Best Friends" -- succeeded with a serialized soap opera amid a sea of procedural dramas from top-shelf producers is now cited as inspiration for countering conventional wisdom when there's little left to lose.
Cherry's breakthrough has served the comedy world a timely reminder: The best scripts are almost always conceived by a fresh voice. That held true for the breakout comedies of recent years, including "Malcolm in the Middle" (Linwood Boomer) "Will & Grace" (David Kohan and Max Mutchnick) and, of course, "Seinfeld" (David and Seinfeld).
Still, the traditional sitcom is in no danger of extinction; even HBO has signaled its intent to invade this territory. Lee Dinstman, executive vp at Agency for the Performing Arts, says their syndication value is too rich to ignore.
That's abundantly clear at CBS, where "Men" is shaping up to be the next syndication bonanza, with ratings rivaling lead-in "Raymond." The network played it safe this season by installing more family comedies that imitate "Raymond's" bumbling-dad conceit, including "Listen Up" and "Center of the Universe," both of which were recently picked up for additional episodes.
However, sources say CBS might shake up its comedy offerings next season. Development executives there are expected to focus on workplace comedies and female-driven fare -- Jenna Elfman (news), Holly Robinson Peete, Aisha Tyler and Susie Essman are among the actresses being considered for their own vehicles. All those close-knit families currently on CBS' schedule might also soon rub up against a little turbulence; the network has at least six projects in development that deal with divorce.
ABC might also get antsy: Despite riding high with "Housewives" and "Lost," the network's Tuesday and Friday comedy blocks will likely need fresh blood next season. Family fare may step aside for potential form-breakers like a vehicle for "Saturday Night Live" alum Chris Kattan with touches of "Curb"-like improvisation and broad physical comedy as well as an Elton John (news)-produced chronicle of an aging rock star.
Nevertheless, pessimism runs high that all these unorthodox projects will be around in September. "Development season represents what the networks want to be," one literary agent said. "Their schedule in the fall is what they are."
Reuters/Hollywood Reporter
Now let me get this out of the way by saying, yes I am a Christian, but I think even if I were not a Christian this is just a pathetic attempt at bad humor. Soon they will be pitching a 'Pretty Woman' sitcom with a 'young' Mother Teresa.
Chris
11-30-04, 10:26 AM
#2
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: So Fox TV Has Hit A New Low! :furious: ;)
Originally posted by mrpayroll
[url]And then there's a few real howlers: Fox brass are said to be particularly high on a project that one could dub "That '70s B.C. Show": It imagines Jesus as a slacker teen under pressure from his parents -- God and Mary -- to enter the family carpentry business.
[url]And then there's a few real howlers: Fox brass are said to be particularly high on a project that one could dub "That '70s B.C. Show": It imagines Jesus as a slacker teen under pressure from his parents -- God and Mary -- to enter the family carpentry business.
Off kilter, breaking the rules programming? Sounds like Andy Richter Controls the Universe, Greg the Bunny, Futurama or Family Guy to me... ALL WHICH FOX THEMSELVES CANCELLED.
11-30-04, 10:49 AM
#5
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: I was here but I disappear
Posts: 8,407
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
These executives are morans. You can't set out to break the rules a la Larry and Jerry. It just happens. You can't just will that into existance. Then you end up creating crap. And plundering comedy clubs looking for the "next" Seinfeld is stupid. These guys never learn.
11-30-04, 10:51 AM
#6
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: So Fox TV Has Hit A New Low! :furious: ;)
Originally posted by mrpayroll
And then there's a few real howlers: Fox brass are said to be particularly high on a project that one could dub "That '70s B.C. Show": It imagines Jesus as a slacker teen under pressure from his parents -- God and Mary -- to enter the family carpentry business. NBC has one about a newly single woman who loses 300 pounds -- after dumping her 300-pound husband. Another project making the rounds depicts the friendship between a divorcee and a gay ghost.
And then there's a few real howlers: Fox brass are said to be particularly high on a project that one could dub "That '70s B.C. Show": It imagines Jesus as a slacker teen under pressure from his parents -- God and Mary -- to enter the family carpentry business. NBC has one about a newly single woman who loses 300 pounds -- after dumping her 300-pound husband. Another project making the rounds depicts the friendship between a divorcee and a gay ghost.
11-30-04, 10:53 AM
#7
DVD Talk Legend
Almost all these shows sound like they could have been FOX sitcoms... in 1990. I'm talking the Herman's Head, Charlie Hoover, Woops era (and I actually liked Herman's Head).
Putting aside for a moment the question of whether any of these ideas could put out one good episode, would they have any longevity at all? They're all stunt ideas. Once the gimmick wore out, what would be left?
How is this fresh? Sitcoms based on a setting are not a new idea, even IF you come up with different settings. Not that these ideas are all that fresh. The trailer park one sounds like The Mullets.
Because it worked so well for Emeril.
All that would happen in the pilot. Afterward, what would differentiate this from every other 'single gal' show?
For God's sakes, these shows aren't popular because they're 'quirky'. They're popular because they have great writing and talented performers!!! Sheesh, people.
And then there's a few real howlers: Fox brass are said to be particularly high on a project that one could dub "That '70s B.C. Show": It imagines Jesus as a slacker teen under pressure from his parents -- God and Mary -- to enter the family carpentry business. Another project making the rounds depicts the friendship between a divorcee and a gay ghost.
NBC is considering one set in a retirement community and another in a trailer park.
And the usual cavalcade of stand-up comics are seeing some of their spots taken by more marketable pop stars such as the rock band Barenaked Ladies (news - web sites) (Fox) and Melissa Etheridge (news) (ABC).
NBC has one about a newly single woman who loses 300 pounds -- after dumping her 300-pound husband.
All this quirkiness bears the influence of cable, where such innovative programing as Comedy Central's "Chappelle's Show" and HBO's "Curb Your Enthusiasm" has spawned renewed interest in sketch and improvisational formats. Given the gradual parity the cable audience is reaching with that of broadcast, concepts once deemed too niche now seem viable, executives say.
11-30-04, 10:54 AM
#8
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Re: So Fox TV Has Hit A New Low! :furious: ;)
Originally posted by mrpayroll
And then there's a few real howlers: Fox brass are said to be particularly high on a project that one could dub "That '70s B.C. Show": It imagines Jesus as a slacker teen under pressure from his parents -- God and Mary -- to enter the family carpentry business.
And then there's a few real howlers: Fox brass are said to be particularly high on a project that one could dub "That '70s B.C. Show": It imagines Jesus as a slacker teen under pressure from his parents -- God and Mary -- to enter the family carpentry business.
11-30-04, 11:04 AM
#9
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Why do I get the feeling that the Fox network is deliberately feeding material to the talking heads on Fox news?
11-30-04, 11:08 AM
#11
DVD Talk Legend
Originally posted by tofu
The project about the divorcee and the gay ghost. Ummm . . ok. Sounds like the writer was stoned or something when they wrote that.
The project about the divorcee and the gay ghost. Ummm . . ok. Sounds like the writer was stoned or something when they wrote that.
11-30-04, 11:28 AM
#13
DVD Talk Legend
NBC is considering one set in a retirement community and another in a trailer park.
12-01-04, 08:25 AM
#17
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Originally posted by Booth
I'd like to see a show about a robot driving instructor from the future who travels back in time-- and his best friend is a talking pie!
I'd like to see a show about a robot driving instructor from the future who travels back in time-- and his best friend is a talking pie!
This idea is SOO much better than the ones mentioned in the article. Boatdrinks needs to switch to comedies, as it looks like 2 monkies typing on 2 typewriter for 20 minutes are getting pilot deals. Oh wait he has some talent and would be scoffed out of the building for a decent story idea.
Does this remind anyone else of Sean Connery's comments about why he did LXG? He said that he got the script for X-Men, did not understand it so he passed. He then got the script of LotR and did not understand the script so he passed, then when he got the script for LXG again he did not understand the script but he said he would be damned if he would let this one get away from him.
12-01-04, 10:08 AM
#19
DVD Talk Legend
Originally posted by Booth
I'd like to see a show about a robot driving instructor from the future who travels back in time-- and his best friend is a talking pie!
I'd like to see a show about a robot driving instructor from the future who travels back in time-- and his best friend is a talking pie!
12-01-04, 12:11 PM
#22
DVD Talk Special Edition
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,214
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Another thing they need to learn is that not every show can get huge ratings overnight. They need to give some of the shows that are well received by critics a chance to build an audience. They need to let the creators do the show and stop letting executives with no grasp of quality tv interfere. Im mainly thinking about how bad Fox screwed Firefly with these examples.
12-01-04, 12:30 PM
#23
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Originally posted by rfduncan
I think Booth was embelishing on a Simpsons quote...
I think Booth was embelishing on a Simpsons quote...
I know, and it still sounds better then those listed in the article.
12-01-04, 12:51 PM
#24
DVD Talk Legend
Originally posted by Snowmaker
Unless you're a Jesus freak, I think this show might be interesting, to say the least.
Unless you're a Jesus freak, I think this show might be interesting, to say the least.
it's gold Jerry....GOLD!!
12-01-04, 12:53 PM
#25
DVD Talk Legend
Originally posted by Puzznic
Another thing they need to learn is that not every show can get huge ratings overnight. They need to give some of the shows that are well received by critics a chance to build an audience. They need to let the creators do the show and stop letting executives with no grasp of quality tv interfere. Im mainly thinking about how bad Fox screwed Firefly with these examples.
Another thing they need to learn is that not every show can get huge ratings overnight. They need to give some of the shows that are well received by critics a chance to build an audience. They need to let the creators do the show and stop letting executives with no grasp of quality tv interfere. Im mainly thinking about how bad Fox screwed Firefly with these examples.