atlantamoi

I just watched Shrek 2. It was strange seeing one of the most impressive looking animated movies I've ever seen and being kind of ticked off at the same time with the constant barrage of pop culture references. Some of it was very funny, but it starts to seem lazy to me. I am weary of seeing other Hollywood animated movies for this very reason.

Ever bothered by this?

FinkPish

Yeah, I made this same complaint in a few other animated film threads. By the time these films are finally finished and out in theaters, the jokes are already 2 years old. I thought Shrek 2 was the worst I've seen recently in falling back on cheap pop culture jokes instead of working on actual comedy. Though I didn't see it, I heard A Shark Tale was also guilty of this. And now after seeing The Incredibles, it makes these other films look that much worse.

jaeufraser

Eh, we're talking about a very small handful of films, and many of the animated features don't have this, like the Pixar ones or Polar Express. If the movie sucks, then that's one thing, but it doesn't seem to dominate the animated films. I'd prefer the larger amount of animated films coming out now compared to say 10 years ago, when feature animation pretty much was isolated to Disney.

Somebody could take another stab at 2D animation though, I wouldn't mind that.

Seeker

I'd agree the Shrek series suffers from this syndrome, but as the other posters said, "The Incredibles" and "Polar Express" don't fall into this category.

So, we should just pick on particular movies, vs. "animated flix".

RyoHazuki

This pretty much only applies to Dreamworks (Shrek, Shrek 2, Shark Tale).

harosa

Shrek 2 pales in comparison to SHark's Tale, Hammer jokes? thick, gold chains and gold teeth, graffitti? On top of it resembling a SteppinFetchitt skit it was dated by 10 years.

fumanstan

I wouldn't say if "suffers." It's no different then spoof comedies, many of which are still funny years later. It's just another type of comedy, and i think its silly of people to attack the movie for using them. I haven't seen Shark Tale, but in Shrek's case i think the majority of references will hold up decently.

Brain Stew

Eh...

It seemed to me that Shark's Tale was a cheap grab at the money anyhow. Finding Nemo was a huge hit, so the marketting guys cooked up a similar idea, but tried to give it an "urban" edge to play up demographics .

Shrek 2 I think suffers from Mike Myers. From Austin Powers 2 and on I think he has gotten incredibly lazy in his comic writing.

jaeufraser

Well, he's just a voice actor. I don't think he's really writing much of this, save for maybe a few ad libs here and there.

Anyway, again it's just which films we're talking about. I think the Shrek films work and are incredibly entertaining. But not all animated films are made the same way, so I'm not too concerned about it.

FinkPish

I disagree. I watched Shrek and Shrek 2 recently, and while Shrek seemed to hold up better, both were already quite dated. I think Shrek seemed a bit fresher because they had an original story to work from, but Shrek 2 just seemed like a by the numbers, lets-make-more-money sequel.

It is possible to spoof other movies and still be funny, such as the Airplane movies and Wet Hot American Summer. But there are plenty that are already showing their age, because they relied too much on the success and recognizability of other movies to create their humor, i.e. Scary Movie series.

Kerborus

I wholeheartedly agree, specifically with Disney movies - formulaic beyond belief - pop culture references, celebrity voices, same archetype characters with different ethnicity or theme...

It all adds up to BORING TRIPE.

I think the standouts have been Iron Giant, Incredibles, and the last two Miyazaki films.

Sessa17

I've ranted about this here, & pretty much everywhere b/c from what I've seen & everyone I know I'm the only person that absolutely hates Shrek & all these new-age computer animated movies & the main reason I hate them is b/c of all the pop-culture references.

Now I'm not old (unless you consider 23 to be old), & I really feel all this pop-culture crap they put in these movies is a dumbing down effect to get a cheap laugh by spoofing or referencing another movie or commercial or something. Rather than rely on clever writing that might go over someone's head or people may not find funny, it's a cheap easy way to get a laugh where the audience feels they are "in" on the joke b/c they are overloaded with useless pop-culture watching.

PopcornTreeCt

This is what separates from Pixar from the crap.

PopcornTreeCt

While I agree, what instances are there of Disney doing this?

jaeufraser

Eh, perhaps those jokes are there because many people find them funny. I don't see how it is dumbing down. It's a comedy, and this is the type of humor they went for. What did you expect, black comedy? Or are we claiming the humor of Looney Tunes was somehow smarter? Perhaps they don't have quite the resonance of the best animated films, but to outright hate the Shrek films baffles me really. They're fun fluffy entertainment with likable characters, nice visuals and funny jokes. I don't really see the need to claim the movie is made for stupid people...it's not stupid, it's a comedy adventure and quite frankly was quite succesful in making people laugh.

Matthew Chmiel

Yes, yes. We know. DreamWorks' CGI department, with the exception of Antz, puts out a lot of shit that will predate itself in a few months. Yes, Mike Myers needs to get a new friggin' shtick. Yes, Eddie Murphy is an annoying jackass. Yes, nobody liked Shark Tale. Yes, we all know that Robert DeNiro's career has already hit the shitter. And so on and so on...

BigDan

I especially liked the really up-to-date Mr. Microphone reference in Shrek 2.

I expect some Inside the Egg Shell Egg Scrambler humor in Shrek 3.

FinkPish

I didn't mind the characters or visuals or some of the jokes, but for me, the tendency to fall back on pop culture references as a way to get a quick laugh is the problem. For me, those types of jokes only work once; I see a Matrix reference, I laugh because I recognize what they are doing, but there is no replay value. There isn't any real humor in a joke like that, it is just the recognizability factor that makes me smile.

Its like watching a comedian whose only jokes revolve around imitating other funny or immediately recognizable people. They are funny because you know what or who they are imitating, but they aren't really being funny, they are just mirroring what is funny. To me, that's why loading a film up with pop culture references makes the movie seem cheap and simplistic.

jaeufraser

Eh, I'm just saying for many that's not the same, and this is a family comedy, in general the humor in these types of movies is fairly simple. I'm a big fan of The Emperor's New Groove, and a lot of the humor in there is just physical humor of people falling over, turning into kitty cats, whatever else. They're different brands of humor, and certainly both of these films also sport the occasional witty line, and of course there are jokes that fell flat for me (justin timberlake for example). But in general, I dont' consider it cheap (simple I can give you, but I see no inherent problem in that). Why don't I see it as cheap? Cause it works really, at least for a lot of us. The same way lots of comedy classics do. For some reason the Three Stooges are renowned and loved, but their humor is the epitome of simple. Now, granted everyone might not enjoy it, and for sure some of it falls a little flat, but nonetheless give Shrek its credit...many thought it was very funny, and I'd venture to say the elements of character worked, as these characters go way beyond being comedic props and are quite adored and fairly endearing I'd say. not to mention, while Shrek sports pop culture jokes, that hardly represents all the humor in the film, as many other types exist whether it be word play, physical humor, funny faces, or more. I can tell you I got my biggest laugh from the movie when they pulled out Puss' catnip and he says that's not mine. Reference to Cops? Sure, but they didn't just copy it, they came through with a clever way, put some jokes into it, and it of course pertains to the plot. Might others have not found it funny? Sure, but what can I say that sort of thing I found enitrely enjoyable.

Nonetheless, I will put it this way...many of my favorite comedies rely on fairly basic humor. I'd say my favorite comedy is Airplane! which relies on many stupid, silly, inane jokes, and also stuff based on pop culture. So of course different strokes for different folks, but in the end I see no reason to deride the film for appealing to a certain segment of the audience (an obviously large portion of the audience at that).

FinkPish

I think we are misunderstanding each other. I have no problems at all with physical humor or referential jokes. And I also enjoy so-called basic humor (pies in the face, pratfalls, etc). My problem isn't with this brand of humor in the least. There were plenty of these types of jokes in The Incredibles that I really laughed at.

My problem with movies like the Shreks and Shark's Tale is the reliance of the storytellers to insert popular songs and references to popular movies rather than create their own humor using the characters they have. I thought all the characters in Shrek and the new ones in Shrek 2 were great, a lot of possibilities for humor. But it seemed like instead they tended to force humor by throwing a reference in here and there when they couldn't find something naturally funny about the characters or in their interactions. I'm not saying the movie is all bad, there are some great bits, but if they stuck to the more natural humor that comes from good comedic writing, I think the movies could be a lot better.

FinkPish

I also don't think all pop culture references are bad necessarily, but it seems like the writers tended to use it as a crutch rather than being ironic or suggestive by finding referencing something else. They end up acting like the kid who saw the new movie over the weekend and comes into school spouting off every funny line in the movie and making everyone laugh. He isn't being funny per se, he's just reminding everyone how funny the movie was.

FinkPish

Incidentally, I'm watching Toy Story 2 while I'm sitting here tonight and I counted at least 7 different references to 4 different movies in the opening sequence with Buzz. For some reason these references don't grate on me like the ones in Shrek, et al. I don't know what it is, maybe it's because they are referencing movies that are almost timeless or they are just being a bit more clever about it, but for some reason they are still funnier.

jaeufraser

But a part of the reason it's funny is because the original joke was funny to begin with. Quoting a line doesn't make me laugh...I don't think it makes most people laugh. Quoting a line in a funny way can be, but the jokes in Shrek aren't just quotes. I found the Farbucks jokes where all the people run across the street to another Farbucks quite funny. Is it the first time I've ever heard this joke? No, but it was done well and I laughed. Quoting pop culture would mean they just stuck a Farbucks in the background. But that wasn't the whole joke. The truth of the matter is, much like the Simpsons (which also sported a similar Starbucks joke) this type of humor works for a lot of people. The joke there wasn't just referencing pop culture but mocking the proliferation of Starbucks. Perhaps not the most original. I don't consider Quentin Tarantino cheap for his pop culture references either, as he does a lot more with them then purely referencing.

Now there are films out there that thinkg they're funny simply by referencing things. Your point I completely agree with in some cases, but Shrek, I have to disagree with you, is not a good example of it.

FinkPish

I think you've hit upon what bothers me with some of these jokes. They aren't original, in fact some of them have been completely played out and are more like references to references at this point. I smiled at the Farbucks joke, but it has been referenced so many times in countless standup routines and Simpsons episodes and shitty sitcoms, in essentially the same way, that it just isn't that funny anymore.

I think the key to choosing what jokes to make about popular culture is picking out ones that haven't already been talked about endlessly and/or picking ones that have been overused and finding a new way to present them.

I think this all comes down to personal taste in the end, different people are going to have different senses of humor, based mostly on what they have and haven't been exposed to. I try not look down on someone who laughs hysterically at something I find mildly funny, and I would hope they don't mock me for finding some vague reference to a barely known movie a riot.

Giantrobo

Much of Shrek's success was due to "pop-culture" gags and a cute storyline so how are these references lazy?

Perhaps your real problem isn't the fact that they use Pop-culture references, but that most of the pop culture is crap and not deserving a rehash?