Hd, Blu-ray Confuse Consumers
10-27-04, 06:27 PM
#1
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Hd, Blu-ray Confuse Consumers
HD, BLU-RAY CONFUSE CONSUMERS
And could harm future adoption of high-def
By Eliza Gallo 10/26/2004
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OCT. 26 | SANTA MONICA, Calif.--Further tussles between the competing HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc formats could damage a market primed for high-definition content, argued Bob Chapek, president of Buena Vista Home Entertainment and the Digital Entertainment Group at Tuesday's North American DVD Forum Conference here.
A total of 30 million homes are expected to be high-definition ready by 2006, said Chapek. The figure will rise to more than 55 million homes with high-definition TV sets by 2008, according to In-Stat/MDR senior analyst Michelle Abraham.
With HD creeping up at such a rapid pace, the industry must serve a consumer populace that is confused, "information-starved and hungry" to buy high-definition DVD players, Chapek said. Only a small portion of these people are tech-savvy early adopters who have the willingness to sift through information on the competing standards, and the rest may become discouraged and turn to other mediums like cable and satellite for their high-definition needs, he said.
"We can't have two groups screaming disparate messages to consumers--this could make for a disappointing launch where neither side dominates," Chapek said. "Maybe we should be asking ourselves not how big our piece of the pie will be, but how big the pie will be."
DVD consultant and former Warner Home Video chief Warren Lieberfarb, a supporter of the arguably more market-ready HD DVD format, stressed the urgency of a quick decision. "Time marches by very fast in the digital world," he said. "Companies are missing opportunities and creating disasters for themselves."
"Waiting to make a decision until 2005 means that product is not in the market at a mass price point until 2007," and by then the industry could be facing flat standard-definition DVD sales, widespread piracy with methods like file-swapping and houses full of big-screen HD TV sets that make standard DVDs look bad, Lieberfarb said. To head off such a scenario, he believes that mass market price points must be achieved by 2006.
Beyond the format war issue, consumer education was deemed essential to the success of high-definition DVD. "This is a battle that will be determined on the marketing front," said Chapek. He said that it is important to convince some consumers that any high-definition DVD format is something they want.
Jodi Sally, assistant VP at Toshiba, feels that communicating the benefits of high-definition DVDs is the top priority. She believes that richer user interfaces and interactivity will be major draws to a population that doesn't embrace new technologies as fast as the industry expects. The increased storage capacity of the new discs will make it possible for people to do more than just watch DVDs, Sally said.
If consumers aren't presented with an appealing, single-format high-definition DVD offering, they might decide to stick with standard-definition DVD, said Steve Weinstein, executive VP at Macrovision. He worried that they might just take their money and use it to buy another plasma TV.
I really hope there isn't a format war. All signs point to yes...
And could harm future adoption of high-def
By Eliza Gallo 10/26/2004
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OCT. 26 | SANTA MONICA, Calif.--Further tussles between the competing HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc formats could damage a market primed for high-definition content, argued Bob Chapek, president of Buena Vista Home Entertainment and the Digital Entertainment Group at Tuesday's North American DVD Forum Conference here.
A total of 30 million homes are expected to be high-definition ready by 2006, said Chapek. The figure will rise to more than 55 million homes with high-definition TV sets by 2008, according to In-Stat/MDR senior analyst Michelle Abraham.
With HD creeping up at such a rapid pace, the industry must serve a consumer populace that is confused, "information-starved and hungry" to buy high-definition DVD players, Chapek said. Only a small portion of these people are tech-savvy early adopters who have the willingness to sift through information on the competing standards, and the rest may become discouraged and turn to other mediums like cable and satellite for their high-definition needs, he said.
"We can't have two groups screaming disparate messages to consumers--this could make for a disappointing launch where neither side dominates," Chapek said. "Maybe we should be asking ourselves not how big our piece of the pie will be, but how big the pie will be."
DVD consultant and former Warner Home Video chief Warren Lieberfarb, a supporter of the arguably more market-ready HD DVD format, stressed the urgency of a quick decision. "Time marches by very fast in the digital world," he said. "Companies are missing opportunities and creating disasters for themselves."
"Waiting to make a decision until 2005 means that product is not in the market at a mass price point until 2007," and by then the industry could be facing flat standard-definition DVD sales, widespread piracy with methods like file-swapping and houses full of big-screen HD TV sets that make standard DVDs look bad, Lieberfarb said. To head off such a scenario, he believes that mass market price points must be achieved by 2006.
Beyond the format war issue, consumer education was deemed essential to the success of high-definition DVD. "This is a battle that will be determined on the marketing front," said Chapek. He said that it is important to convince some consumers that any high-definition DVD format is something they want.
Jodi Sally, assistant VP at Toshiba, feels that communicating the benefits of high-definition DVDs is the top priority. She believes that richer user interfaces and interactivity will be major draws to a population that doesn't embrace new technologies as fast as the industry expects. The increased storage capacity of the new discs will make it possible for people to do more than just watch DVDs, Sally said.
If consumers aren't presented with an appealing, single-format high-definition DVD offering, they might decide to stick with standard-definition DVD, said Steve Weinstein, executive VP at Macrovision. He worried that they might just take their money and use it to buy another plasma TV.
I really hope there isn't a format war. All signs point to yes...
10-27-04, 07:30 PM
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Originally posted by TomOpus
No surprise. I've always said that HD/Blur-ray will be a tough sell to the general public and having both out at the same time will make matters worse.
No surprise. I've always said that HD/Blur-ray will be a tough sell to the general public and having both out at the same time will make matters worse.
10-27-04, 09:30 PM
#4
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All signs point to Blu-Ray being the superior format, but I have my doubts that Sony can effectively market it.
The easiest solution is to make multi-format players that can handle both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD.
The easiest solution is to make multi-format players that can handle both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD.
10-28-04, 12:53 AM
#6
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Re: Hd, Blu-ray Confuse Consumers
Originally posted by TylerDurden_73
[I]Beyond the format war issue, consumer education was deemed essential to the success of high-definition DVD. "This is a battle that will be determined on the marketing front," said Chapek. He said that it is important to convince some consumers that any high-definition DVD format is something they want.
[I]Beyond the format war issue, consumer education was deemed essential to the success of high-definition DVD. "This is a battle that will be determined on the marketing front," said Chapek. He said that it is important to convince some consumers that any high-definition DVD format is something they want.
Widescreen DVD
Fullscreen DVD
Widescreen HD-DVD
Fullscreen HD-DVD
Widescreen Blu-Ray
Fullscreen Blu-Ray
10-28-04, 09:50 AM
#7
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What I think is strange is the comment that people will be watching standard DVDs and thinking they look "bad."
I have a 50-inch widescreen Toshiba HD-Ready set and my DVDs look amazing. I know that HDs will most likely look better, but we aren't talking night and day here. So I hardly think there is a tremendous need to rush these things out.
I have a 50-inch widescreen Toshiba HD-Ready set and my DVDs look amazing. I know that HDs will most likely look better, but we aren't talking night and day here. So I hardly think there is a tremendous need to rush these things out.
10-28-04, 10:27 AM
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Originally posted by Draven
What I think is strange is the comment that people will be watching standard DVDs and thinking they look "bad."
I have a 50-inch widescreen Toshiba HD-Ready set and my DVDs look amazing. I know that HDs will most likely look better, but we aren't talking night and day here. So I hardly think there is a tremendous need to rush these things out.
What I think is strange is the comment that people will be watching standard DVDs and thinking they look "bad."
I have a 50-inch widescreen Toshiba HD-Ready set and my DVDs look amazing. I know that HDs will most likely look better, but we aren't talking night and day here. So I hardly think there is a tremendous need to rush these things out.
A format war is in no one's best intrest.
10-28-04, 01:09 PM
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The Playstation 3 is Sony's ace in the hole. It's like a trojan horse, putting Blu-ray players in a huge amount of households, giving consumers a taste of what movies are like using Blu-ray. If rumors are correct that the PS3 will ship with the ability to play Blu-ray movies, and Sony uses their own film library to start releasing a large number of movies for their format, this whole "war" could be over before it begins. If a $300 PS3 can play Blu-ray disks, expect there to be plenty of sub $300 stand alone players on the shelves not long after the PS3 ships.
Many studios have said they will not support two formats, and will wait to see who wins the format war before releasing films for either. To me that says, only Blu-ray will have any studio support because they (Sony) have the intellectual properties to support it themselves and end up being the winner by default.
That's my prediction anyway. NEC and Toshiba have no way to support their format. They will have to rely on the movie studios for that and it doesn't look like it will be forthcoming. At least not in numbers great enough to compete with the 900lb gorilla.
Technological superiority will not decide the winner here. Sony has learned some valuable lessons over the past decade starting with the first playstation. SOFTWARE sells hardware. Not the other way around. A large, practically pre-installed userbase + a good size library of films = winner.
Many studios have said they will not support two formats, and will wait to see who wins the format war before releasing films for either. To me that says, only Blu-ray will have any studio support because they (Sony) have the intellectual properties to support it themselves and end up being the winner by default.
That's my prediction anyway. NEC and Toshiba have no way to support their format. They will have to rely on the movie studios for that and it doesn't look like it will be forthcoming. At least not in numbers great enough to compete with the 900lb gorilla.
Technological superiority will not decide the winner here. Sony has learned some valuable lessons over the past decade starting with the first playstation. SOFTWARE sells hardware. Not the other way around. A large, practically pre-installed userbase + a good size library of films = winner.
10-28-04, 01:48 PM
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Re: Hd, Blu-ray Confuse Consumers
[i]"Waiting to make a decision until 2005 means that product is not in the market at a mass price point until 2007," and by then the industry could be facing flat standard-definition DVD sales, widespread piracy with methods like file-swapping and houses full of big-screen HD TV sets that make standard DVDs look bad, Lieberfarb said. To head off such a scenario, he believes that mass market price points must be achieved by 2006.
So they'll be desperate to get us to buy all the titles we had on VHS, then DVD yet again on either HD or Blu-Ray. Regardless of the fact that many things will show no improvement (much TV material, for example, because it wasn't made in HD in the first place) and, of course, because you'll need to upgrade your viewing equipment as well.
From my European viewpoint I might add that this is a total non-runner, as HD simply isn't happening here...
For myself, I think that it will be a much tougher job selling HD/Blu-Ray over DVD than it was DVD over VHS. VHS was a very old format and looked it's age - DVD had a lot of advantages over it, not just the better picture and sound. I'm not so sure that people will be willing to jump again - and so soon. I suspect that Blu_ray will filter in more slowly, and people will be hanging on to their DVD collections.
10-28-04, 01:58 PM
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Re: Hd, Blu-ray Confuse Consumers
Originally posted by TylerDurden_73
DVD consultant and former Warner Home Video chief Warren Lieberfarb, a supporter of the arguably more market-ready HD DVD format, stressed the urgency of a quick decision. "Time marches by very fast in the digital world," he said. "Companies are missing opportunities and creating disasters for themselves."
DVD consultant and former Warner Home Video chief Warren Lieberfarb, a supporter of the arguably more market-ready HD DVD format, stressed the urgency of a quick decision. "Time marches by very fast in the digital world," he said. "Companies are missing opportunities and creating disasters for themselves."
10-28-04, 02:57 PM
#12
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Originally posted by Dammit
The Playstation 3 is Sony's ace in the hole. It's like a trojan horse, putting Blu-ray players in a huge amount of households, giving consumers a taste of what movies are like using Blu-ray. If rumors are correct that the PS3 will ship with the ability to play Blu-ray movies, and Sony uses their own film library to start releasing a large number of movies for their format, this whole "war" could be over before it begins. If a $300 PS3 can play Blu-ray disks, expect there to be plenty of sub $300 stand alone players on the shelves not long after the PS3 ships.
The Playstation 3 is Sony's ace in the hole. It's like a trojan horse, putting Blu-ray players in a huge amount of households, giving consumers a taste of what movies are like using Blu-ray. If rumors are correct that the PS3 will ship with the ability to play Blu-ray movies, and Sony uses their own film library to start releasing a large number of movies for their format, this whole "war" could be over before it begins. If a $300 PS3 can play Blu-ray disks, expect there to be plenty of sub $300 stand alone players on the shelves not long after the PS3 ships.
That will hurt Blu-Ray to some degree.
10-28-04, 03:58 PM
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Re: Re: Hd, Blu-ray Confuse Consumers
Originally posted by Nebiroth
Essentially this really means that the studios will be running short of new thingsto sell us on DVD: they'll be down to new films and dredging ever further down into the archives.
So they'll be desperate to get us to buy all the titles we had on VHS, then DVD yet again on either HD or Blu-Ray. Regardless of the fact that many things will show no improvement (much TV material, for example, because it wasn't made in HD in the first place) and, of course, because you'll need to upgrade your viewing equipment as well.
From my European viewpoint I might add that this is a total non-runner, as HD simply isn't happening here...
For myself, I think that it will be a much tougher job selling HD/Blu-Ray over DVD than it was DVD over VHS. VHS was a very old format and looked it's age - DVD had a lot of advantages over it, not just the better picture and sound. I'm not so sure that people will be willing to jump again - and so soon. I suspect that Blu_ray will filter in more slowly, and people will be hanging on to their DVD collections.
Essentially this really means that the studios will be running short of new thingsto sell us on DVD: they'll be down to new films and dredging ever further down into the archives.
So they'll be desperate to get us to buy all the titles we had on VHS, then DVD yet again on either HD or Blu-Ray. Regardless of the fact that many things will show no improvement (much TV material, for example, because it wasn't made in HD in the first place) and, of course, because you'll need to upgrade your viewing equipment as well.
From my European viewpoint I might add that this is a total non-runner, as HD simply isn't happening here...
For myself, I think that it will be a much tougher job selling HD/Blu-Ray over DVD than it was DVD over VHS. VHS was a very old format and looked it's age - DVD had a lot of advantages over it, not just the better picture and sound. I'm not so sure that people will be willing to jump again - and so soon. I suspect that Blu_ray will filter in more slowly, and people will be hanging on to their DVD collections.
Secondly, even an old movie can look better on HD than DVD if the source elements are in good shape. The resolution of many of these recordings is much higher than even HD. It is all about how the restoration and transfer is handled.
I agree that the PS3 is a HUGE trojan horse.
10-28-04, 04:09 PM
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Re: Re: Hd, Blu-ray Confuse Consumers
Originally posted by darkside
You can start by explaining widescreen to them. I can't wait until I walk in the store and there are like six versions of every new movie.
Widescreen DVD
Fullscreen DVD
Widescreen HD-DVD
Fullscreen HD-DVD
Widescreen Blu-Ray
Fullscreen Blu-Ray
You can start by explaining widescreen to them. I can't wait until I walk in the store and there are like six versions of every new movie.
Widescreen DVD
Fullscreen DVD
Widescreen HD-DVD
Fullscreen HD-DVD
Widescreen Blu-Ray
Fullscreen Blu-Ray
10-28-04, 04:27 PM
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Originally posted by Coral
XBOX2 will probably be including a HD-DVD drive, and it looks like it will have a 6 month head start to market over the PS3.
That will hurt Blu-Ray to some degree.
XBOX2 will probably be including a HD-DVD drive, and it looks like it will have a 6 month head start to market over the PS3.
That will hurt Blu-Ray to some degree.
If I was a Movie Studio, I would go with Sony - not with MicoSoft.
MicroSoft would have to pay the movie studios to release their movie in the XBox2 format. The Movie Studios owe MicroSoft nothing.
10-28-04, 04:32 PM
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The first thing I ever saw in HD was "Training Day" on HBO-HD. I was blown away. When the movie was over, I popped in my "Training Day" DVD to compare. I was so disappointed with how the DVD looked after having just seen the movie in HD that I haven't watched my TD DVD since. The difference IS night and day.
10-28-04, 05:42 PM
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Re: Re: Hd, Blu-ray Confuse Consumers
Originally posted by darkside
You can start by explaining widescreen to them. I can't wait until I walk in the store and there are like six versions of every new movie.
Widescreen DVD
Fullscreen DVD
Widescreen HD-DVD
Fullscreen HD-DVD
Widescreen Blu-Ray
Fullscreen Blu-Ray
You can start by explaining widescreen to them. I can't wait until I walk in the store and there are like six versions of every new movie.
Widescreen DVD
Fullscreen DVD
Widescreen HD-DVD
Fullscreen HD-DVD
Widescreen Blu-Ray
Fullscreen Blu-Ray
10-28-04, 05:44 PM
#18
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Originally posted by Iron_Giant
But, XBox2 may not have the Movie Studio backing that Sony will have. Sony has a huge amount of movies it can release on the 1st day of the release of the XBox2.
If I was a Movie Studio, I would go with Sony - not with MicoSoft.
MicroSoft would have to pay the movie studios to release their movie in the XBox2 format. The Movie Studios owe MicroSoft nothing.
But, XBox2 may not have the Movie Studio backing that Sony will have. Sony has a huge amount of movies it can release on the 1st day of the release of the XBox2.
If I was a Movie Studio, I would go with Sony - not with MicoSoft.
MicroSoft would have to pay the movie studios to release their movie in the XBox2 format. The Movie Studios owe MicroSoft nothing.
And there's talk that Warner, Universal and Paramount will be releasing on HD-DVD (and possibly Disney):
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/...5297_db002.htm
That's alot more support than Sony/MGM - with ALOT bigger titles (ie. LOTR, Matrix and Harry Trilogies - just from Warner alone). I don't have to mention the power of those Disney titles either.
Nothing is guarranteed, but don't count HD-DVD out.. especially since the players are slated for an early 2005 release - while BluRay is slated for late 2005.
10-28-04, 07:41 PM
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HD-DVD is the leader now and will launch faster than Blu Ray.Toshiba is realy good at this and if it gets Microsoft's approval then PC makers will join them also.
But Panasonic and Sony teaming up is a big problem for NEC and Toshiba.
But Panasonic and Sony teaming up is a big problem for NEC and Toshiba.
10-28-04, 09:05 PM
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Imo, HD/Blu Ray will go well for rich fok.
Try converting your every day tv watcher / sometimes movie buyer to upgrade to hd? give me a break i still see tons of people of all ages buying vhs.. and alot of my friends have only just moved to vhs.
Damn give dvd more time.
Anyway ill keep my dvds and will upgrade when everything is cheaper.
Try converting your every day tv watcher / sometimes movie buyer to upgrade to hd? give me a break i still see tons of people of all ages buying vhs.. and alot of my friends have only just moved to vhs.
Damn give dvd more time.
Anyway ill keep my dvds and will upgrade when everything is cheaper.
10-28-04, 09:20 PM
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Yeah, I still believe that for the near future, HD/Blu-ray will be to DVD what laserdisc was to VHS. In other words, a fairly niche market that early adopters and videophiles will embrace, but the general public will say "Hey, I just spent all this money and finally bought a DVD player. What's this new disc thingy that's more expensive and I need yet another new player to play it on? I'm confused and I ain't buying it"
10-28-04, 09:27 PM
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Originally posted by cultshock
Yeah, I still believe that for the near future, HD/Blu-ray will be to DVD what laserdisc was to VHS. In other words, a fairly niche market that early adopters and videophiles will embrace, but the general public will say "Hey, I just spent all this money and finally bought a DVD player. What's this new disc thingy that's more expensive and I need yet another new player to play it on? I'm confused and I ain't buying it"
Yeah, I still believe that for the near future, HD/Blu-ray will be to DVD what laserdisc was to VHS. In other words, a fairly niche market that early adopters and videophiles will embrace, but the general public will say "Hey, I just spent all this money and finally bought a DVD player. What's this new disc thingy that's more expensive and I need yet another new player to play it on? I'm confused and I ain't buying it"
The change over will be gradual. Just as it is cost-foolish to buy a CD-ROM drive or CD-Player in lieu of a DVD drive or player, one day the cost of a HD unit will be of negligible effect on the consumer.
Again, HD DVD is less a "new format" but more of an extension of the current format.
10-29-04, 08:35 AM
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There is no chance that the next gen releases will be 1080P right from the get go correct? Is that due to current technology limitations?
10-29-04, 11:13 AM
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Just my 2 Cents....
>Widescreen DVD
>Fullscreen DVD
>Widescreen HD-DVD
>Fullscreen HD-DVD
>Widescreen Blu-Ray
>Fullscreen Blu-Ray
I really can't see any of the studios putting out FULLSCREEN versions of Movies in HD. Seriously. The HD format is ALL ABOUT WIDESCREEN!
If you look on any NEW electronics website you'll find that 98% of all HD televisions that are being sold are 16x9 format. The HD standard for Television was agreed to be 16X9. So TRULY I cannot believe that people would still be complaining about fullscreen when the HD format is made for 16x9.
When they do indeed start selling HD-DVD or BLU-RAY they will ALL be widescreen only, unless the original film material was originally 1:33:1.
And there is NO POINT in purchasing Television programs that were not shot in HD on HD Discs.
I mean seriously, who in their right mind would buy a 4:3 HDTV????
Actually, I'm sure they're out there, and the studios will still cater to them, but they MUST be in the minority now! Still if the studios do indeed release Full Screen Movies in HD, I'll know the world is going to hell.
>Widescreen DVD
>Fullscreen DVD
>Widescreen HD-DVD
>Fullscreen HD-DVD
>Widescreen Blu-Ray
>Fullscreen Blu-Ray
I really can't see any of the studios putting out FULLSCREEN versions of Movies in HD. Seriously. The HD format is ALL ABOUT WIDESCREEN!
If you look on any NEW electronics website you'll find that 98% of all HD televisions that are being sold are 16x9 format. The HD standard for Television was agreed to be 16X9. So TRULY I cannot believe that people would still be complaining about fullscreen when the HD format is made for 16x9.
When they do indeed start selling HD-DVD or BLU-RAY they will ALL be widescreen only, unless the original film material was originally 1:33:1.
And there is NO POINT in purchasing Television programs that were not shot in HD on HD Discs.
I mean seriously, who in their right mind would buy a 4:3 HDTV????
Actually, I'm sure they're out there, and the studios will still cater to them, but they MUST be in the minority now! Still if the studios do indeed release Full Screen Movies in HD, I'll know the world is going to hell.
Last edited by excandide; 10-29-04 at 11:16 AM.