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duff beer
10-18-04, 08:00 PM
We've seen and talked about the most realistically potrayed gun battles like D-Day in Saving Private Ryan, any of the battles in Band of Brothers, or the musket and cannon ball battles of the Patriot to give us a realistic potrayal of how it looked through the eyes of those that were there.

But the sword and shield has been around longer and has a greater effect on our world. Ofcourse by realism we must look at the recent movies from the last decades when the "audience in the movie" style of gritty shooting was created. I love the older movies more than the new, the 50's being my favorite decade by how many of my favorite movies were in that said decade but when it comes to most realistically depicted as if you were back in time to film them i would say the medieval epic Braveheart in its gory depiction of medieval battles and the swords and sandals recent Gladiator in the first battle in the woods in the roman legions vs. the barbarians. Each of the two battles were from the Ancient world and Medieval world respectively.

flashburn
10-18-04, 08:04 PM
Hmm, maybe the new Zatoichi?

Rivero
10-18-04, 08:49 PM
http://www.theargonath.cc/pictures/misctwotowers/misctwotowers7.jpg

Mr. Salty
10-18-04, 09:42 PM
The duel between Liam Neeson and Tim Roth at the end of "Rob Roy" gets my vote. I like how Neeson, who is suffering from a previous injury, gets winded swinging the heavy broadsword around. The fight also looks very natural and unchoreographed, with a very realistic ending.

Duder
10-18-04, 10:05 PM
<img src=http://www.tkovisual.com/Customers/The%20Last%20Samurai.jpg>

PopcornTreeCt
10-18-04, 10:18 PM
You guys are all amateurs........

http://eportal.guhsd.net/mjr742/sevensamurai2.jpg

Ky-Fi
10-18-04, 11:05 PM
Well, most movie swordfighting is never realistic, nor should it be, IMO----"realistic" wouldn't make for very compelling cinema. Real martial arts want to make all the movements as subtle, small and quick as possible, which would not read very well on film. That's partly why fencing and Kendo are not very popular TV sports---the casual viewer can't even tell what's happening. Screen choreography and real martial arts are two very different disciplines, and skill in one often doesn't translate to the other.

But yes, I also liked the choreography in Rob Roy, and I can't remember his name offhand, but I believe it's the same guy who choreographed THe Three Musketeers and the Four Musketeers. He tries to show the swordsmen getting tired, scared, sloppy, etc, and the swordplay styles reflect the values of the characters. Very good stuff.

For any fans of swashbucklers, I would also highly recommend "On Guard"(Le Bossu) the French movie from 1997. Nice movie, great swordfighting scenes. And "Scaramouche", from 1952, has some fantastic fencing scenes.

The Zatoichis are all fantastic swordplay movies as well----great movies on every level.

And for Chinese swordplay, I would have to recommend John Woo's old-school movie "Last Hurrah for Chivalry"----that's got some definite kick-ass swordfighting.

GreenMonkey
10-19-04, 12:18 AM
Give me Seven Samurai, or Braveheart to catch the gory, bloody part of battles. :D

Rivero
10-19-04, 01:50 AM
Originally posted by PopcornTreeCt
You guys are all amateurs........

We're looking for most realistic sword battles.....not "the best film with sword battles". In that regard I'll agree with Salty about Rob Roy and say that it's duels puts Kurosawa's film to shame.

CreatureX
10-19-04, 02:08 AM
Originally posted by Mr. Salty
The duel between Liam Neeson and Tim Roth at the end of "Rob Roy" gets my vote. I like how Neeson, who is suffering from a previous injury, gets winded swinging the heavy broadsword around. The fight also looks very natural and unchoreographed, with a very realistic ending.

I agree! :up: One of the best sword battles of all time...

karnblack
10-19-04, 02:35 AM
Has anyone seen The Duellists?

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00006JU7U.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

I saw a few minutes on TV once and it looked pretty realistic.

Superboy
10-19-04, 03:12 AM
Obi-wan vs. Darth Maul. Seriously one of the most intense sword battles ever. My pulse was racing like mad.

Terrell
10-19-04, 04:15 AM
Obi-wan vs. Darth Maul.

A brilliant and visually stunning battle to be sure. But I don't think we can call it gritty or realistic.

Mr. Salty
10-19-04, 04:24 AM
Originally posted by Superboy
Obi-wan vs. Darth Maul. Seriously one of the most intense sword battles ever. My pulse was racing like mad.
The question wasn't asking for intense. It was asking for realistic.

RocShemp
10-19-04, 06:46 AM
Say what you will about the movie, the swordplay in The 13th Warrior was very good. You could really sense the weight of the blades. Especially in the duel between Herger (Dennis Storhoi) and Angus.

raven56706
10-19-04, 07:57 AM
Robin hood- Men in tights

flixtime
10-19-04, 08:10 AM
:thumbsup: to the earlier answers specifically "On Guard", "Rob Roy", and "The Duellists".

While acknowledging the fact that I've neither participated in nor witnessed a to-the-death swordfight, I'd still like to nominate the last fight scene in Japan's The Twilight Samurai (2002) as a good representation of what it must really be like.

obscurelabel
10-19-04, 08:48 AM
The Three Musketeers (with Michael York) played on the Atlanta PBS station recently, I hadn't seen it before. I didn't watch much of it but was struck by the (intentional) crudeness of the sword fighting. Not a lot of fancy and precise thrusts and parries, but pushing, kicking, hitting with fists, missing the opponent, etc. I don't know if it was "realistic" but I think people fighting to the death with swords would look a lot more like that than some of the precise choreography seen in a lot of movies.

Giles
10-19-04, 09:30 AM
any of the sword fights in the 1966 Shaw Brother's production:

Come Drink With Me

silentbob007
10-19-04, 10:01 AM
Like others in this thread, my first thought was Rob Roy ....

dick_grayson
10-19-04, 10:06 AM
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00009VTYH.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

Duran
10-19-04, 10:14 AM
I seem to remember the fights in Excalibur to be realistic-looking, however I haven't seen it in a few years.

tofu
10-19-04, 10:20 AM
I'd have to go with the ones in Seven Samurai as the most realistic.

mike45
10-19-04, 10:48 AM
Richard Lester's 1973 "Three Musketeers". The sword play was hard, gritty and not very pretty. What I always imagined a real sword fight would be.

Also, the duel between Sean Connery and Robert Shaw in "Robin and Marion". I really liked the part when they showed them getting exhausted as the sword fight continued.

Numanoid
10-19-04, 11:01 AM
Originally posted by Duran
I seem to remember the fights in Excalibur to be realistic-looking, however I haven't seen it in a few years. That's my vote. In reality, swords were not used for fencing or swashbuckling, which is usually the way you see them being used in film. In reality, they are a hack and slash weapon. Unless fully armored, a person can't really absorb more than one or two blows from a sword.

Imagine a side of beef hanging in a meat locker, and then imagine laying into it with a swift sword blow. You'd penetrate it deeply and probably take a huge chunk out of it. It'd be the same way with a human body, folks. You don't last long against that kind of damage.

devilshalo
10-19-04, 11:47 AM
Originally posted by tofu
I'd have to go with the ones in Seven Samurai as the most realistic.

Same here. Nothing pretty or graceful. If I want pretty and graceful, I'll watch CTHD.

Hokeyboy
10-19-04, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by RocShemp
Say what you will about the movie, the swordplay in The 13th Warrior was very good. You could really sense the weight of the blades. Especially in the duel between Herger (Dennis Storhoi) and Angus.
Too bad you couldn't see any of it, since they so brilliantly decided to film 90% of the action in the dark using extreme close-ups. What a joke. :mad:

Wag
10-19-04, 02:02 PM
Princess Bride ;)

DVD Smurf
10-19-04, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by PopcornTreeCt
You guys are all amateurs........

http://eportal.guhsd.net/mjr742/sevensamurai2.jpg

Agree...

bhk
10-19-04, 02:18 PM
Monty Python and the Holy Grail

duff beer
10-19-04, 02:44 PM
Thank goodness only one person mentioned a LoTR film, i was sadly expecting more since fantasy films are really non-applicable in realism of historic battles.

While Kurosawa's films are unmatched in medieval Japanese story and actually one of the central reasons why i pick the 50s as my favorite cinema decade, the sword battles are fairly typical of the time albeit more gritty.

Fok
10-19-04, 03:01 PM
Seven Samurai :thumbsup:

tanman
10-19-04, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by Rivero
http://www.theargonath.cc/pictures/misctwotowers/misctwotowers7.jpg

As much as I love LotR, and I really do. It definately didn't have any realistic sword battles. You lose a lot of reality when it is a classic story of a small group of good guys against hords of bad guys. I'm sorry but Orcs just wouldn't die that easily. Same goes for stormtroopers.



As much as I like Kurosawa I don't think it had the most realistic sword play. But then again it is difficult to tell because honestly none of us really know the days were wars were fought with the blade and not the bullet so it is hard to tell what it really was like at that time.

Hokeyboy
10-19-04, 03:20 PM
The swordplay in Seven Samurai is pretty realistic, especially regards to the jumbled, messy, chaotic nature of sword battle. It is neither stylized nor balletic, but presented realistically.

Jeck goes into this during his audio commentary. Well worth a listen, as its the best commentary track ever recorded. EVER RECORDED. Don't believe me? I'll break you with my bare hands!!! :mad:

Ky-Fi
10-19-04, 03:50 PM
Originally posted by flixtime
:
While acknowledging the fact that I've neither participated in nor witnessed a to-the-death swordfight, I'd still like to nominate the last fight scene in Japan's The Twilight Samurai (2002) as a good representation of what it must really be like.

Agreed. You really got the sense that both were acutely aware of life and death gravity of the situation, and how dangerous it was even to get in range of your opponent.

Morf
10-19-04, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by Wag
Princess Bride ;)

That was going to be my choice as well. :)

duff beer
10-19-04, 04:24 PM
Keep in mind this is Sword battles not Sword duels, same as would be war battles and not gun duels.

Jazzbutcher
10-19-04, 08:27 PM
Originally posted by karnblack
Has anyone seen The Duellists?

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00006JU7U.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

I saw a few minutes on TV once and it looked pretty realistic.
:up: by a county mile.

fumanstan
10-19-04, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by Wag
Princess Bride ;)

:up:

mikeford
10-20-04, 03:15 AM
Duelists, plus many of the japanese films mentioned. Much of what happens depends on the type of sword, and how evenly matched the combatants are. With samurai as I understand it, it was not unusual for both to draw and strike a deathblow in the same instant. With one much more skilled or talented than the others, cutting a swath of death from single blows isn't unreasonable either. The sort of cut a katana makes is what shock is all about.

OTOH a modern sword like an epee offers much greater defense, so it was very practical for a fight to be to first blood. That first blood was very likely on your sword arm, and put the wounded person at a fairly great disadvantage where it would be ungentlemanly to continue.

My guess is that most real combat is like the latter, a contest until first blood, then the wounded person gives up or is completed disarmed and killed.

Realistic swordplay isn't a car chase, its a car crash. What gives it weight are the consequences, which few movies want to dwell on.

Max Bottomtime
10-20-04, 06:30 AM
Jason and the Argonauts.:-)

AGuyNamedMike
10-20-04, 06:44 AM
Many of the great combat sequences mentioned here were created by the swordmaster Bill Hobbs. He has been doing it since the sixties and most recently his work was seen in The Count of Monte Cristo.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0387643/

duff beer
10-20-04, 11:36 AM
Again i say this is Sword battles not sword duels.

fumanstan
10-20-04, 12:34 PM
Well if you really want to be specific, duff beer is right. The most 'realistic' sword battle wouldn't be a 5 or 10 minute duel between sword masters fighting to a stale mate. It would probably last about 45 seconds with one guy getting a serious slash across the gut.

Hokeyboy
10-20-04, 01:54 PM
Well argue semantics all you want; most people are chiming in with their favorite sword duels/battles, not the most realistic. So you might as well pop some kernels and amuse yourself with the general public's inability to follow directions.

Oh, and mine is the Schwartz battle from Spaceballs. :D

DealMan
10-20-04, 03:09 PM
I'd go with Seven Samurai, especially the ones towards the beginning. Slash, fall, done.

duff beer
10-20-04, 03:12 PM
Matt i specifically said twice that this is battles and not duels. Before the first gun, the harquebus invented in the late 15th century, armies actually fought with swords.

Hokeyboy
10-20-04, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by duff beer
Matt i specifically said twice that this is battles and not duels. Before the first gun, the harquebus invented in the late 15th century, armies actually fought with swords. I know you did.

You know you did.

And I know that you know that you did.

But nobody's paying attention. :( I mean honestly: Lord of the Rings? Someone mentioned Princess Bride with a sarcastic emoticon and a few people jumped in with :thumbsup:'s. So why fight a lost cause? Lie back and enjoy it.

That having been said, I'd also like to volunteer Blade as a continuance of ignorance.

whaaat
10-20-04, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by Mr. Salty
The duel between Liam Neeson and Tim Roth at the end of "Rob Roy" gets my vote. I like how Neeson, who is suffering from a previous injury, gets winded swinging the heavy broadsword around. The fight also looks very natural and unchoreographed, with a very realistic ending.
First one I thought of.

Most fun: Princess Bride.

duff beer
10-20-04, 05:16 PM
There's a real difference from Gun duels and WWII battles, which is why i was stressing military battles during the ancient and medieval world showing the grit and dirtiness of the battle of many frantic soldiers.

Blade
10-20-04, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by Matt Millheiser
That having been said, I'd also like to volunteer Blade as a continuance of ignorance. What did I do to you? :confused:

Blade
10-20-04, 05:55 PM
I assume by battles, you mean large groups of people fighting each other?

Braveheart seemed to be somewhat realistic. Seven Samurai was more guerrilla warfare, I'm not sure that would count as a battle cheifly fought with swords. Good battle scenes, but I thought most of the villagers were using spears, not swords.

duff beer
10-20-04, 07:04 PM
Actually Kurosawa's films do show some campaigns, the stories taking place amidst war, like Yojimbo. But they weren't realistic, not until did the style of audiences in the movies can we call it realistic.


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