CPA-ESQ.

Ok - you are Luke in ROTJ

You enter the Emperor’s chambers – you find out that the Death Star is working, your friends are being ambushed, and you are cornered by 2 sith.

Your options:
1) Kill the Emperor – you turn to the Dark Side and he becomes more powerful (no good).
2) Fight Vader and kill him – you turn to the Dark Side, and if you don’t the Emperor will kill you. (no good)
3) Stand there Defend yourself against 2 Sith, get your ass kicked and watch your friends die – you stay on the Light Side (only option)

Not for nothing but for over 25yrs I have wondered – How could Luke have won without Vader helping him destroy the Emperor? If Luke killed the Emperor – he would go over to the dark side.

The Jedi Code in the original Trilogy seems to be – Defend yourself only – and hope that someone else does the dirty work for you in a “Face to Face” confrontation (i.e Vader destroying Emperor),,,, or it is ok to kill – as long as it is not “Face to Face” (i.e. blow up the death star)

So is Luke’s only option to run like a little bitch, jump in an x-wing, and blow up the death star while Vader and the Emperor were still in it? Thus justifing that Vader's and Palp's death are Casualties of War – Thus the rules of the Force do not apply

I just don’t understand what the right thing for Luke to do was?

Josh H

Luke could have killed the emperor without going to the darkside. Just not in the beginning when he was defenseless.

A jedi attacks only out of defense. Thus at the end, when the emperor is attacking him, he could have theoretically fought him, and killed him and remained on the light side. He could have still told him he had failed, that he'd never turn, etc. and kept his saber, deflected the lightining ala Obi Wan against Dooku in AOTC and killed him in a fair fight defending himself.

Groucho

I do two chicks at the same time (one of them Leia). This, obviously, before finding out she's my sister.

Then again, maybe not. Jabba bikini =

CPA-ESQ.

Ok good point - but in theroy all a sith has to do is put up a fight until it looks like they are loosing... fall to the ground and say "I'm defenseless" .... and then when they have gained their breath. start fighting again?

So what if the emperor was sleeping in his chambers and Luke blew up the deathstar?

bboisvert

I'm no expert, but in that scenario, it sounds like the good guys win.

The Cow

WTF?

DigIt

Luke's problem isn't that he can't kill the Emperor, it's that he can't hate the emperor and want to kill him. The emperor and Vader are teasing him into cultivating that hatred by not allowing him to strike either of them down, trying to get him to lose his cool.

Hatred, anger, fear = bad.
Killing the emperor out of necessity without malice = priceless.

Josh H

Really it would still be ok if he didn't kill him out of hate. He would know it was just a ruse, that he was saving the galaxy etc. He just couldn't give into his hate and strike him down in anger.

It's a fine line.

Fok

Luke did the right thing, he took it like a bitch and his dad helped him out.

resinrats

Well Luke could have taken advantage of the Emperor's loop-hole. According to the Emperor, Luke would turn to the dark side if he 'took his weapon and struck him down'. So.. if Luke just punched Palpatine in the face, bodyslammed him and then strangled him to death with his bear hands, Luke would not join the dark side since he didn't use the weapon.



I would also kill Vader. I never understood this whole 'I've got to save my daddy crap' Face it, Vader was a bad father and deserved to die.

What Vader did bad to Luke himself and his immediate friends (not counting the rest of the galaxy):
Killed Luke's friends (Obi-Wan, Biggs)
Blew up Leia's planet
Lando lost his city.
Tortured Leia (later revealed he tortured his own daughter)
Froze Luke's buddy Han.
Shot R2-D2 in the head
CUT OFF HIS HAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tried to make him turn evil.
Made Luke leave his stuff behind when Luke had to leave Hoth in a hurry.


Things Vader did nice to Luke:
Didn't kill him in Cloud City (but tried to make him evil instead.)


Sure looks like Vader really isn't worth saving to me. Luke should have just jammed his lightsaber into his chest (when Empy & Vader were expecting Luke to take out Palpy) and be done with it.

bboisvert

The point is that Luke was not powerful enough to kill Palpy. Only Vader could do it.

Luke's victory is in finding Anakin's humanity and bringing it back to the surface. That alone was what ultimately defeated the Sith. If Luke had "jammed his lightsaber into Vader's chest" early on, Vader might be toast... but then Luke would either be turned or would be toast at the hands of Palpy.

resinrats

I'm betting that if Luke offed Vader, Palpatine would have sat there shocked for a couple of seconds, giving Luke plenty of time to punch him in the face. This throwns Palpy more into shock of the pain, giving Luke time to bodyslam him. Palpy looks like a frail little guy. A bodyslam at that age will break bones. Again Palpy is distracted by broken bones and will not be able to concentrate on lightning, giving Luke the time to crush his neck.

Luke wins!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bboisvert

Shocked? Palpatine *wanted and expected* Luke to kill Vader. To 'strike him down and take his father's place' at his side.


Luke doesn't win!!!!!!!

Pistol Pete

Ignore him. Utah will do strange things to a man.

nodeerforamonth

It doesn't matter what you do.

In the Star Wars universe, if you go to the Dark side, all you have to do is recant on your death bed and you'll be ok in the afterlife.

BizRodian

Exactly.

whaaat

milo bloom

I've never understood why so many people have a problem with this. There are many religions right here on our planet that have that same belief. If you go thru life being bad thinking "I'll just recant on my deathbed" it won't count. But if you truly accept the salvation and "lightside" then it counts.



And I think Luke could have made a break for it and hit the big red "DO NOT PUSH" self-destruct button and taken out the whole lot.

harpo787

Shoot the hostage?

Masamune

Kill the Emperor, and use the Death Star to blow up all the Imperial ships. Send Vader down to Endor to solo all the remaining Imp troops, then blow up Endor.

Most...powerful...and ONLY Jedi....EVER!!

Pure pwn.

nodeerforamonth

Well the problem I have with it is that you can do whatever you want (kill random people, rape, etc... in the SW world, choke people to death, blowing up peaceful planets, etc...) to hurt other people but there seem to be no consequences! (by the way, I believe salvation is based on the sum of your life's work, not what you say/believe right before you die)

Spiky

This was always the problem with SW, the religion wasn't well thought out. Not that most actual religions are well thought out. The only place I've ever liked the religion (dark vs light) side of the Jedi is how they dealt with it in the latest series of books, specifically those dealing with Jacen Solo's maturation as a Jedi. They really made it possible to fit in all the seeming inconsistencies throughout the movies and other books. (except midiclorians, WTF?)

Birrman54

I read masturbation , I guess I have a dirty mind.

birrman54

milo bloom

That's an ancient argument, salvation by faith vs salvation by works. Salvation by faith believes that even if you go thru life a good person never harming a hair on anyone, cheating your taxes, nothing bad whatsoever, if you never accept Jesus as your savior you're going to burn. But if on your deathbed, you honestly, truly, repent, then you go to heaven. I don't want to get into a religious argument, it just seems to me so many people in Hollywood subscribe to the "works" belief, that anything different than that comes across as crazytalk to most people.

If I'm not mistaken, Lucas is Methodist, and I believe that's Protestant which believes in salvation by faith. That's the allegory he would use.

masetodd

The Emporer said, "Strike me down" only as a ploy to get Luke to fight Vader.

According to the Emperor's scheme, he would get Luke angry enough to lash out at him, then get him and Vader to fight. Luke was then supposed to use his rage to kill Vader and turn to the dark side, and then he would be the Emperor's pet from then on.

Of course this plan went to sh!t when Luke saw that Daddy had a mechanical hand just like him!