I've been a UFC and Pride fan for several years now and I'm really curious as to why the popularity of Mixed Martial Arts isn't much, much higher. IMO, the fights are far superior and more exciting than Boxing matches.
It's a shame UFC got such a bad rep a few years ago and that uniformed opinion on it (people thinking no rules, etc) still seems to dominate.
I was thinking about this after hearing the De La Hoya/ Hopkins fight hit 1,000,000 PPV buys, whereas lots of UFCs are in the 60,000-80,000 range. I wonder why there's such small crossover.
Any thoughts?
-Paul Jacobi-
MahatmaPetey
10-11-04, 02:38 PM
people are ignorant.
Manco
10-11-04, 06:15 PM
It gets alot less exposure. You don't see ESPN giving round by round reports or Sports Illustrated talking about it.People aren't that interested in learning about a new sport.
I've never been a big fan of boxing it's too one dimensional for me. In MMA you need to be be a well rounded fighter if you want to successful.
People need to check out Pride,UFC,Pancrase and Shooto.
Leechboy
10-12-04, 12:15 AM
I love MMA and buy almost every dvd I can find. On the other hand I cannot stand boxing.
KnightLerxst
10-13-04, 07:39 AM
I think it is just a question of exposure. Like Manco said, you can't flip on ESPN and catch any MMA fights or results on SportsCenter.
MMA needs a regular weekly show on cable or network tv...that is the only way I see it going full mainstream.
Maybe UFC or Pride could start up a weekly show consisting of some of their greatest matches: Shamrock vs Ortiz, Herring vs Nog, maybe even a history of the sport showing that it is not the bar room brawl simulation that it used to be.
uli2000
10-14-04, 03:29 AM
I watched ultimate fighting a few years ago. I never could get into it because it was too violent for me. Maybe some people (networks) feel the same way because it is so real. We all know that when Arnie shoots someone, its fake. The same goes for wrestling (wait, isnt it 'sports entertainment' now?). It just wont go mainstream.
scottall
10-14-04, 04:52 AM
Originally posted by KnightLerxst
MMA needs a regular weekly show on cable or network tv...that is the only way I see it going full mainstream.
Maybe UFC or Pride could start up a weekly show consisting of some of their greatest matches: Shamrock vs Ortiz, Herring vs Nog, maybe even a history of the sport showing that it is not the bar room brawl simulation that it used to be.
There is a UFC show on Empire Sports, but I haven't seen any major fights like you mentioned the few times I have watched it.
Manco
10-14-04, 05:36 AM
Another problem for MMA is that when the media does talk about it its in a negative light.. A lot of sports writer and commentators won't admit that they don't really have a clue about the sport.
I remember on "Around the Horn" when they talked about Mike Tyson going to K-1. They didn't know jack about K-1 but that didn't stop them from talking about it. They said biting and eye gouging was legal and you could break peoples arms.
I remember a little while back someone died in a toughman competition and the national media likened it to MMA. WTF is that? Toughman competitions are basically BOXING matches between unskilled people. Theres no takedowns,kicking or submissions in Toughman. So why compare to MMA?
KnightLerxst
10-14-04, 06:13 AM
Originally posted by uli2000
I watched ultimate fighting a few years ago. I never could get into it because it was too violent for me. Maybe some people (networks) feel the same way because it is so real. We all know that when Arnie shoots someone, its fake. The same goes for wrestling (wait, isnt it 'sports entertainment' now?). It just wont go mainstream.
I really don't see it as any more or less violent than boxing. In MMA you don't get a standing 8 count...if you are down and out the ref calls the fight. MMA fighters are less likely to get their brains scrambled over the years.
I would rather see a slick submission than a knockout anyway...but I digress.
I think it has the potential to go mainstream, it will take time, but I think the sport has the potential.
I mean before I watched UFC I had the same mentality...that it was this ultra brutal blood bath. In the beginning that may have been the case...but MMA has evolved more into a human chess match.
KnightLerxst
10-14-04, 06:15 AM
Originally posted by scottall
There is a UFC show on Empire Sports, but I haven't seen any major fights like you mentioned the few times I have watched it.
Part of the problem right there. They need to showcase some of the great fights to hook people on the sport. It is hard to get into a sport that you can only catch highlights of on dvd or on pay per view.
scottall
10-14-04, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by Manco
Another problem for MMA is that when the media does talk about it its in a negative light.. A lot of sports writer and commentators won't admit that they don't really have a clue about the sport.
I remember on "Around the Horn" when they talked about Mike Tyson going to K-1. They didn't know jack about K-1 but that didn't stop them from talking about it. They said biting and eye gouging was legal and you could break peoples arms.
I remember a little while back someone died in a toughman competition and the national media likened it to MMA. WTF is that? Toughman competitions are basically BOXING matches between unskilled people. Theres no takedowns,kicking or submissions in Toughman. So why compare to MMA?
Boxing is talked about negatively also, but it is mainly about the judging. MMA is definitely headed toward the mainstream. It is a good sign when there are celebrities at the PPVs. Shaq was at UFC 48 with a few others. I don't remember seeing Shamrock on any talk shows 10 years ago, but Ortiz was on the Tonight Show after he beat Shamrock.
The national media isn't the brightest so of course some sportswriter or commentator is going to spout off some stupid comparisons. The more it is talked about the better. At least it raises awareness, even if it is negatively.
KnightLerxst
10-14-04, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by scottall
Boxing is talked about negatively also, but it is mainly about the judging. MMA is definitely headed toward the mainstream. It is a good sign when there are celebrities at the PPVs. Shaq was at UFC 48 with a few others. I don't remember seeing Shamrock on any talk shows 10 years ago, but Ortiz was on the Tonight Show after he beat Shamrock.
The national media isn't the brightest so of course some sportswriter or commentator is going to spout off some stupid comparisons. The more it is talked about the better. At least it raises awareness, even if it is negatively.
One sign of the growth of the sport is the fanatics at www.sherdog.com
I had no idea there were that many MMA fans!
MahatmaPetey
10-14-04, 06:10 PM
don't bother with the sherdog forums if you want to have intelligent discussions on MMA. though the site is pretty good otherwise (despite the fact that the Bushido 5 preview listed Carlos Newton as beating Dan Henderson).
scottall
10-15-04, 02:54 AM
Originally posted by KnightLerxst
One sign of the growth of the sport is the fanatics at www.sherdog.com
I had no idea there were that many MMA fans!
That's pretty cool. I have seen some of the videos with Sherdog.com on P2P, but had never checked it out.
I've never been a fan of intelligent discussion. ;)
KnightLerxst
10-15-04, 05:25 AM
Originally posted by MahatmaPetey
don't bother with the sherdog forums if you want to have intelligent discussions on MMA. though the site is pretty good otherwise (despite the fact that the Bushido 5 preview listed Carlos Newton as beating Dan Henderson).
Yeah there are one too many flamewars over there...I was just citing it as an example of MMA's growing popularity...even if the people over there tend to have less brains than a single celled organism. :)
MrBob
10-16-04, 02:18 AM
The thing that has bothered me is how people have condemed this sport, which has only had 1 death (which happened in russia, and was caused by a preexisting condition, not the fight), and NASCAR gets a free pass where death is commonplace.
The problem with the ufc is that they are trying so hard to become mainstream that they are alienating their hardcore base. They are doing this by watering down the sport, turing it into unskilled kickboxing matches, opting to show promos and pispoor interviews, instead of showing all of the fights. Also they continue to focus to much on bringing back washed up names instead of young talent. Come on Ortiz-Metzger is a joke of a main event. I'm not ordering the next UFC.
"In MMA you don't get a standing 8 count...if you are down and out the ref calls the fight. " Usless factoid, In shooto they actually have 8 counts and a 3 knock down rule. Great stuff to watch if you ever get the chance to.
ams
10-16-04, 02:40 AM
I am sure I am not alone when I say that I get frustrated by the amount of grappling and ground fighting involved in the mixed martial arts tournaments. When they stand and fight, that is damn exciting, but then they tackle, and it is another 5 minutes of yawnfest.
MahatmaPetey
10-16-04, 12:51 PM
even more of a joke is that Guy Mezger is injured and Patrick "Who-the-fuck-are-you?" Cote is his replacement to fight Tito in the main event.
Manco
10-16-04, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by ams
I am sure I am not alone when I say that I get frustrated by the amount of grappling and ground fighting involved in the mixed martial arts tournaments. When they stand and fight, that is damn exciting, but then they tackle, and it is another 5 minutes of yawnfest.
I agree fights can get boring on the ground if you have people with the "lay and pray attitude" but ground fighting can be quite good good if you have people can flow on the ground like Carlos Newton,Kazushi Sakuraba,Antonio Noguiera,Caol Uno,Genki Sudo or the old Rumina Sato.
Fighters for Pancrase,Pride and Shooto are generally more advanced on the ground than UFC fighters in my opinion.
matrixrok9
10-17-04, 03:39 AM
Originally posted by uli2000
I watched ultimate fighting a few years ago. I never could get into it because it was too violent for me. Maybe some people (networks) feel the same way because it is so real. We all know that when Arnie shoots someone, its fake. The same goes for wrestling (wait, isnt it 'sports entertainment' now?). It just wont go mainstream.
I would agree that the first 8 UFC's or so were very brutal and violent. Most of the fighters in these events were unskilled and there were basically no rules. John McCarthy (referee) didn't know what to do when fights should have been stopped. He let it go for too long. The promoters also picked so called martial artists who didn't really have a clue what to do when it came to fighting full contact. It was heavily promoted as a no holds barred event and it got plenty of bad press and rightfully so. Look at how Pride is promoted, it's promoted as a "family entertainment". Even though fighters get knocked out by Crocop and Silva, it doesn't look violent like the early UFC's. The reason for this is that fighters have evolved and it doesn't look like a human cockfight. If you look at the ppv's, parents bring their kids to the events. How many kids do you see at UFC events?
Most of my friends aren't interested in it because they think the ground game is boring. They don't appreciate fights between Fedor and Nog because they think Fedor is just sitting on his ass. They don't see that he's countering Nog's submission attempts and it takes a lot of skill to pound on Nog when he's on his back.
Go to Sherdog's messageboards and go under Multimedia and pictures. They have some cool links to street fights and highlight vids.
P.S. I saw Joe Son (asian dude with Kimo in the early UFC's, he also fought and got his balls beaten by Keith Hackney, Austin Powers 1 henchman) at the theater I worked at. He was on a bike and asked me if I could get him in for free. I told him I couldn't and he left. I thought this guy would have more money since he has fought several times in Japan wearing a thong (search sherdog if you're brave enough).
KnightLerxst
10-17-04, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by ams
I am sure I am not alone when I say that I get frustrated by the amount of grappling and ground fighting involved in the mixed martial arts tournaments. When they stand and fight, that is damn exciting, but then they tackle, and it is another 5 minutes of yawnfest.
I really mean no offense by this and I am not trying to start a flamewar...but that mentality is really what hurts MMA in the US. A lot of UFC fans tend to find the ground game boring. At first I didn't get the ground game and it was a yawn fest to me as well...but after I learned it...damn...that is the best part of the sport. I don't even want to see stand up...I want to watch them go to the ground and watch the fighters try to set up and excape submissions. I mean Matt Hughes at UFC 48 escaping a seated triangle choke...Jesus.
Anyway Pride seems to focus more on the ground game...and the UFC is more focused on stand up...and I think if people took the time to learn and appreciate the ground game the sport could really take off.
Originally posted by MahatmaPetey
people are ignorant. Uhmmmm? :confused:
You consider it ignorance if people prefer one thing to another?
Yesh, that's sensible and well considered.
MrBob
10-17-04, 05:24 PM
"I would agree that the first 8 UFC's or so were very brutal and violent. Most of the fighters in these events were unskilled and there were basically no rules. John McCarthy (referee) didn't know what to do when fights should have been stopped. He let it go for too long. "
Just another couple of usless tidbits, the most common injury by far in the early UFC's was broken hands. And UFC2, McCarthy's first UFC and by far the Most brutal of all UFCS, was that way because McCarthy had no power to stop fights. The fight could only end via Tap out, or the Corner, hence the brutal KO's.
Another show that did this format was Superbrawl 2, which was probably most violent show I've seen. There were some brutal KO's on that card, including Vitor Belfort's 1st fight which was a quick and brutal destruction of SAFTA front man John Hess.
"Go to Sherdog's messageboards and go under Multimedia and pictures. They have some cool links to street fights and highlight vids."
I don't know if they are doing it anymore, but there was a big scandal on the underground with sherdog admitting to installing spyware, with the DL's. It was funny he was actually pissed and complaining that people were angry with him doing it.
Original Desmond
10-18-04, 04:05 AM
i love both MMA , K1 and boxing.
Fighters make the fights, not the rules
you can get some real snoozefests in MMA, you can get some real snoozefests in boxing
you can get some corkers in MMA, you can get some corkers in boxing (e.g. Trinidad v Mayorca)
Original Desmond
10-18-04, 04:08 AM
BTW Cote v Ortiz has a real Rocky v Apollo Creed feel to it.
Tito CANNOT afford to lose ! Cote has everything to gain
Luddy
10-19-04, 01:55 AM
Anyone who follows UFC? Of the 7-8 matches on the 22nd (UFC 50) will more fights result in a KO/TKO/DQ or Submission/Decision? Leans to KO side.
Original Desmond
10-19-04, 02:19 AM
I rewatched UFC 2 recently, lucky no one got killed ! The refs just stood by until a towel was thrown in. Fighters who had no place in the Octagon were in it and yeah could have been dangerous
KnightLerxst
10-19-04, 06:35 AM
There was a match in one of the early UFCs...Pat Smith vs some guy...I can't remember...anyway I remember Smith got the mount and just unleashed elbows and pretty much shattered the guys eye socket. That was fucking brutal.
DeltaSigChi4
10-19-04, 10:29 PM
I agree that boxing gets more exposure (Espn - SI - and the countless sites/mags devoted to it) but I believe the true reason behind the huge gap between the two is tradition. Boxing, was introduced to me by my family (dad, uncles, cousins) while MMA I had to discover for myself by renting the VHSs way back when. I believe that boxing's long illustrious history gives it a big advantage over MMA.
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