DVD Talk
George Lucas interview on Star Wars [Archive] - DVD Talk Forum

PDA

View Full Version : George Lucas interview on Star Wars


Iron_Giant
09-15-04, 10:55 PM
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=529&ncid=529&e=4&u=/ap/20040915/ap_en_mo/film_q_a_george_lucas

SAN RAFAEL, Calif. - George Lucas never figured on a 30-year career as a space pilot. Once "Star Wars" shot into hyperspace, though, he found it hard to come back down to Earth.


Making its DVD debut Tuesday, Lucas' original sci-fi trilogy "Star Wars," "The Empire Strikes Back" and "Return of the Jedi" began as an experimental foray into old-time studio moviemaking for Lucas, whose first two films had been far removed from usual Hollywood sensibilities.


Lucas' sci-fi satire "THX 1138" had been a commercial dud, but the energetic "American Graffiti" with its driving soundtrack and multi-character point of view scored with audiences, giving the director clout to try something bigger that had been on his mind.


"I'd already started this other idea, which was to do a kind of a classic action adventure film using sets," Lucas said over lunch at his 2,600-acre Skywalker Ranch. "I'd never worked on a set, I'd never worked at a studio. Never made a traditional movie. So I said, `I'm going to do this once, just to see what it's like, what it's like to actually design everything, work on a soundstage, do an old-fashioned 1930s movie.


"And I'll do it in that mode from the 1930s Saturday matinee serials, using kind of 1930s and '40s sensibilities, and I'll base it on sort of mythological motifs and icons. I'll just put it together in a modern form, and I'll have fun. That's how I got into that. I did it because it was an interesting move into an area that I thought I'd never go into."


Three decades later, Lucas is preparing to launch the last of his six "Star Wars" films. Next summer brings "Star Wars: Episode III Revenge of the Sith," completing the prequel trilogy that tells the story of young Anakin Skywalker's metamorphosis into the villainous Darth Vader of the original three films.


Fans have eagerly awaited the first three "Star Wars" films on DVD, a release Lucas initially intended to delay until he finished "Episode III."


Some will be miffed that the original theatrical versions are not included in the "Star Wars" boxed set, which features only the special-edition versions Lucas issued in the late 1990s, with added effects and footage, including a scene between Harrison Ford (news)'s Han Solo and crime lord Jabba the Hutt in the first "Star Wars."


AP: Why did you change your mind and decide to put the original three movies out on DVD now?


Lucas: Just because the market has shifted so dramatically. A lot of people are getting very worried about piracy. That has really eaten dramatically into the sales. It really just came down to, there may not be a market when I wanted to bring it out, which was like, three years from now. So rather than just sit by and watch the whole thing fall apart, better to bring it out early and get it over with.


AP: Why did you rework the original trilogy into the special-edition versions in the late 1990s?


Lucas: To me, the special edition ones are the films I wanted to make. Anybody that makes films knows the film is never finished. It's abandoned or it's ripped out of your hands, and it's thrown into the marketplace, never finished. It's a very rare experience where you find a filmmaker who says, "That's exactly what I wanted. I got everything I needed. I made it just perfect. I'm going to put it out there." And even most artists, most painters, even composers would want to come back and redo their work now. They've got a new perspective on it, they've got more resources, they have better technology, and they can fix or finish the things that were never done. ... I wanted to actually finish the film the way it was meant to be when I was originally doing it. At the beginning, people went, "Don't you like it?" I said, "Well, the film only came out to be 25 or 30 percent of what I wanted it to be." They said, "What are you talking about?" So finally, I stopped saying that, but if you read any interviews for about an eight- or nine-year period there, it was all about how disappointed I was and how unhappy I was and what a dismal experience it was. You know, it's too bad you need to get kind of half a job done and never get to finish it. So this was my chance to finish it.


AP: Why not release both the originals and special editions on DVD?


Lucas: The special edition, that's the one I wanted out there. The other movie, it's on VHS, if anybody wants it. ... I'm not going to spend the, we're talking millions of dollars here, the money and the time to refurbish that, because to me, it doesn't really exist anymore. It's like this is the movie I wanted it to be, and I'm sorry you saw half a completed film and fell in love with it. But I want it to be the way I want it to be. I'm the one who has to take responsibility for it. I'm the one who has to have everybody throw rocks at me all the time, so at least if they're going to throw rocks at me, they're going to throw rocks at me for something I love rather than something I think is not very good, or at least something I think is not finished.


AP: Do you pay much attention to fan reactions to your choices?


Lucas: Not really. The movies are what the movies are. ... The thing about science-fiction fans and "Star Wars" fans is they're very independent-thinking people. They all think outside the box, but they all have very strong ideas about what should happen, and they think it should be their way. Which is fine, except I'm making the movies, so I should have it my way.

AP: After "Episode III," will you ever revisit "Star Wars"?

Lucas: Ultimately, I'm going to probably move it into television and let other people take it. I'm sort of preserving the feature film part for what has happened and never go there again, but I can go off into various offshoots and things. You know, I've got offshoot novels, I've got offshoot comics. So it's very easy to say, "Well, OK, that's that genre, and I'll find a really talented person to take it and create it." Just like the comic books and the novels are somebody else's way of doing it. I don't mind that. Some of it might turn out to be pretty good. If I get the right people involved, it could be interesting.

Jackskeleton
09-15-04, 11:11 PM
AP: Do you pay much attention to fan reactions to your choices?


Lucas: Not really. The movies are what the movies are. ... The thing about science-fiction fans and "Star Wars" fans is they're very independent-thinking people. They all think outside the box, but they all have very strong ideas about what should happen, and they think it should be their way. Which is fine, except I'm making the movies, so I should have it my way.

status = ownage.

Interesting that he says that after III, he will look into television and let others touch the material. that should be very interesting. Most interesting indeed.

Dazed
09-15-04, 11:17 PM
At least he admits he doesnt pay any attention to the fans :D

caiman
09-15-04, 11:18 PM
"AP: Why not release both the originals and special editions on DVD?


Lucas: The special edition, that's the one I wanted out there. The other movie, it's on VHS, if anybody wants it. ... I'm not going to spend the, we're talking millions of dollars here, the money and the time to refurbish that, because to me, it doesn't really exist anymore. It's like this is the movie I wanted it to be, and I'm sorry you saw half a completed film and fell in love with it. But I want it to be the way I want it to be. I'm the one who has to take responsibility for it. I'm the one who has to have everybody throw rocks at me all the time, so at least if they're going to throw rocks at me, they're going to throw rocks at me for something I love rather than something I think is not very good, or at least something I think is not finished. "



I must say, that's quite a respectable answer. And I'm one of the SE haters.

MJG87
09-15-04, 11:20 PM
Originally posted by Iron_Giant
AP: Why not release both the originals and special editions on DVD?


Lucas: The special edition, that's the one I wanted out there. The other movie, it's on VHS, if anybody wants it. ... I'm not going to spend the, we're talking millions of dollars here, the money and the time to refurbish that, because to me, it doesn't really exist anymore.
There it is! Now can we please stop having every Star Wars post turn into "We want the Originals" "Kill George Lucas" etc. comments =( But Yeah I completely understand and respect what he's saying in this interview

Iron_Giant
09-15-04, 11:21 PM
Originally posted by Jackskeleton
status = ownage.

Interesting that he says that after III, he will look into television and let others touch the material. that should be very interesting. Most interesting indeed.
I thought that was the most interesting point of the story. Done right, it could be great "Cliffhanger" serial TV show - just like shows Lucas patterned his Star War movies after.

ResIpsa
09-15-04, 11:21 PM
So he basically admits that he is releasing these now in order to cash in before he anticipates the market will drop (maybe as a result of the next wave of HD-DVD, who knows). An honest response but fuel for the Luca$ bashers.... :johnwoo:

I don't care either way but Lucas comes across as a little bit arrogant in the interview. I mean, sure it's his movie and all but if I had made millions (or was it billions?) from these movies, I would be inclined to be a little nicer to the fans who made me rich. Bitching that it would cost millions to put the original versions out seems kinda callous, and how would it cost millions anyway?

PixyJunket
09-15-04, 11:21 PM
Nice. :lol:

:up: Lucas!

dgc
09-15-04, 11:21 PM
Not Really

Take that you fan boys... rotfl

dgc
09-15-04, 11:25 PM
Originally posted by ResIpsa
Bitching that it would cost millions to put the original versions out seems kinda callous, and how would it cost millions anyway?

Agreed, instead of "cost" I think he meant to say "make".

darkside
09-15-04, 11:25 PM
To his credit he did say they would never be released again on home video way back in the 90's and stood by it. I'll give him that and I've got my originals on Laserdisc and backed up on DVD-R so its not a big issue with me.

His finished version is inferior to the originals though. Too bad he will never understand what made that imperfect original trilogy so great.

That TV series could kick ass though.

dgc
09-15-04, 11:28 PM
Originally posted by darkside
His finished version is inferior to the originals though. Too bad he will never understand that.

Inferior in what way? Artistic? From what I've read so far, certainly not the audio and video presentation of it.

Get Me Coffee
09-15-04, 11:29 PM
It does seem like the Ultimate Star Wars edit is out of the question.


Anyway, never say never....I could see later down the road the originals being released. Lucas isn't going to live forever....the rights will go to someone else...who might understand the fans and $$$.

darkside
09-15-04, 11:31 PM
Originally posted by dgc
Inferior in what way? Artistic? From what I've read so far, certainly not the audio and video presentation of it.

If you watch movies just for the image and sound quality you are really missing the point.

Inferior in the changes made to make it mesh with a prequel that isn't even a fraction as enjoyable as the original trilogy.

PopcornTreeCt
09-15-04, 11:31 PM
I have to disagree about filmmakers wanting to go back and change their own work. I think every filmmaker puts out a film, sees how it is received, and then goes and makes another one. They don't keep changing and changing their old films.

Jackskeleton
09-15-04, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by darkside
If you watch movies just for the image and sound quality you are really missing the point.

Inferior in the changes made to make it mesh with a prequel that isn't even a fraction as enjoyable as the original trilogy.


well if left by itself and those glaring errors were kept as is, I would argue that the flaws would make the original seem silly.

whatever. I'm not saying the SE is better, but to say inferior is silly. Especially if you have seen the quality. the whites are perfect.

djtoell
09-15-04, 11:40 PM
Originally posted by PopcornTreeCt
I have to disagree about filmmakers wanting to go back and change their own work. I think every filmmaker puts out a film, sees how it is received, and then goes and makes another one. They don't keep changing and changing their old films.

Who is the "they" to whom you refer? Surely not Charlie Chaplin, Michael Mann, Steven Spielberg, D.W. Griffith, Milos Forman, Ridley Scott, Michael Bay, Oliver Stone, Wolfgang Petersen, Luc Besson, James Cameron...

DJ

darkside
09-15-04, 11:42 PM
Originally posted by PopcornTreeCt
I have to disagree about filmmakers wanting to go back and change their own work. I think every filmmaker puts out a film, sees how it is received, and then goes and makes another one. They don't keep changing and changing their old films.

Terry Gilliam said it best.

If its not the film you want to release you should have never put your name on it in the first place.

History shows this is not true though. Chaplin never stopped changing his films.

Honestly, I really have no problem with him changing it every year if he wants to, but the original should be made as easily available. Imagine if you bought a painting and the guy showed up at your house every sixth months to touch up things he didn't like, but that you had grown to love about the picture.

Once the film is released to the public it kind of belongs to us all in a way and should be preserved.

However, this is a dead issue. The originals are not going to be revisited and thats that. They will have to live on in bootlegs. He has made it clear and given his reasons for it. I credit him for that.

PopcornTreeCt
09-15-04, 11:42 PM
Originally posted by djtoell
Who is the "they" to whom you refer? Surely not Charlie Chaplin, Michael Mann, Steven Spielberg, D.W. Griffith, Milos Forman, Ridley Scott, Michael Bay, Oliver Stone, Wolfgang Petersen, Luc Besson, James Cameron...

DJ

I was actually thinking of Scorsese when I was writing it. And a director's cut is not the same as what Lucas does. Its simply different editing not re-shooting.

djtoell
09-15-04, 11:46 PM
Originally posted by PopcornTreeCt
I was actually thinking of Scorsese when I was writing it.

You were thinking of only Scorsese when you said "every filmmaker"?

And a director's cut is not the same as what Lucas does. Its simply different editing not re-shooting.

You didn't say anything like that. You said that "every filmmaker" makes new films and "they," which must mean "every filmmaker" in order for you sentences to have any coherence, don't keep changing and changing their old films. No sort of distinction about the special ways in which Lucas changes his films.

DJ

dgc
09-15-04, 11:50 PM
Originally posted by darkside
If you watch movies just for the image and sound quality you are really missing the point.

Inferior in the changes made to make it mesh with a prequel that isn't even a fraction as enjoyable as the original trilogy.

No, I don't watch just for image and sound quality but the improved audio & video will be quite an enjoyable experience. Certainly no where near the original experience/impression the films left on me as a child during their theatrical release but enjoyable non the less.

I honestly think for the majority of fans that it's only knowing that the changes are there that bothers them. Had these changes been present during their original release, there would be no disappointment or everlasting debate.


BTW, I did enjoy the prequels about 5/6 ths as much as the originals but that's just my minority opinion. Had i seen the prequels as a child, I probably would have liked them just as much as the original trilogy.

djtoell
09-15-04, 11:50 PM
Originally posted by darkside
Terry Gilliam said it best.

If its not the film you want to release you should have never put your name on it in the first place.

Weird then that Gilliam personally prepared three different cuts of Brazil with his name on them.

Imagine if you bought a painting and the guy showed up at your house every sixth months to touch up things he didn't like, but that you had grown to love about the picture.

Imagine your example was so unlike the situation being discussed in this thread that it didn't work at all.

DJ

darmok
09-15-04, 11:59 PM
imagine every classic film being re-visited every ten, twenty,forty years, and each time tweaked and updated to the point that it loses its original charm. Lucas is just being mule-headed here. he can do whatever he wants to his movies, but how about giving his "fans" (the ones who made him a billionaire) a choice? bah, enough bantering, this is beating a dead horse. sorry!

darkside
09-16-04, 12:01 AM
Originally posted by djtoell
Weird then that Gilliam personally prepared three different cuts of Brazil with his name on them.



Wow, you really have your facts straight on that situation. :rolleyes:

Imagine your example was so unlike the situation being discussed in this thread that it didn't work at all.

DJ

An artist going back after the fact and changing his work. Yeah thats nothing like this at all. I would never want to suggest that Lucas is an artist.

johnbook
09-16-04, 12:08 AM
I know this is all about star wars and i along with the millions of others can't wait til next tuesday, but i wish there could have been a question about when we will see a "howard the duck" dvd.

djtoell
09-16-04, 12:18 AM
Originally posted by darkside
Wow, you really have your facts straight on that situation. :rolleyes:

Please point out which fact isn't straight:

-Gilliam personally prepared the European theatrical cut and put his name on it.

-Gilliam personally prepared the US theatrical cut and put his name on it.

-Gilliam prepared a final cut for Criterion's LD box and put his name on it.

I'll wait.

Or do you simply just roll your eyes when you know you don't have enough expertise to back yourself up?

An artist going back after the fact and changing his work. Yeah thats nothing like this at all. I would never want to suggest that Lucas is an artist.

Gosh, you're right. It's exactly the same thing. Everytime Lucas changes Star Wars, he actually walks into my house and modifies each copy I own. I forgot all about it!

Please.

Is it ever possible to discuss this topic without people acting like Lucas breaks into their homes and steals their childhoods?

DJ

darkside
09-16-04, 12:30 AM
Originally posted by djtoell

Is it ever possible to discuss this topic without people acting like Lucas breaks into their homes and steals their childhoods?

DJ

Who is acting like that? I think most everyone in the thread has said its not that big of a deal. Lucas certainly hasn't hurt me in any way with this. Doesn't mean I have to agree he is right about his decision though.

Gilliam's fight over Brazil is well documented. He didn't just give up and release a version he didn't feel was good as apparently was the case with Star Wars. I just wish the credits on the original Star Wars had said "under construction" so we wouldn't have made the mistake of liking it.

As far as releasing Director's Cuts or longer cuts later. I don't think anyone has a problem with that. However, with a classic film like Star Wars there will always be a desire for the original to be around. In this case it won't be, but so be it.

djtoell
09-16-04, 12:35 AM
Originally posted by darkside
Who is acting like that?

You. You compared what Lucas has done to someone coming into your house and modifying your personal property that you love.

Gilliam's fight over Brazil is well documented.

Yes, it is. And after the fight was over, Gilliam put his name on three different versions of the film over a period of time. Yet when I said that, you rolled your eyes and me and implied that I didn't have my facts straight. Are you planning on backing this up or are you just going to avoid having to stand behind for what you say when you insult the credibility of another DVDTalker? Don't waste my time by drawing irrelevant comparisons to Lucas. You insulted me. Stand behind it with proof or admit you were wrong.

DJ

PopcornTreeCt
09-16-04, 12:39 AM
Originally posted by djtoell
You were thinking of only Scorsese when you said "every filmmaker"?

[b]

You didn't say anything like that. You said that "every filmmaker" makes new films and "they," which must mean "every filmmaker" in order for you sentences to have any coherence, don't keep changing and changing their old films. No sort of distinction about the special ways in which Lucas changes his films.

DJ

Dammit, I didn't come on here to have my words dissected. :) Anyway, I don't agree with what Lucas does, I wish he would just move on and make movies that weren't Star Wars related but oh well.

darkside
09-16-04, 12:46 AM
Originally posted by djtoell
You. You compared what Lucas has done to someone coming into your house and modifying your personal property that you love.

Yes, it is. And after the fight was over, Gilliam put his name on three different versions of the film over a period of time. Yet when I said that, you rolled your eyes and me and implied that I didn't have my facts straight. Are you planning on backing this up or are you just going to avoid having to stand behind for what you say when you insult the credibility of another DVDTalker? Don't waste

DJ

You have been doing all the insulting in this discussion. I already backed up what I said. Gilliam stood behind his movie and only put his name on it when the studio let him release the version he wanted.

So he added in more footage for Europe and put it in the home video versions. There was a desire by the fans of the film to see that version and I have heard no outcry for the shorter version.

Is this the same situation as Lucas creating all new CGI scenes and reediting existing scenes to alter the story? No.

Sorry your honor was so insulted, but you really shouldn't take forums discusions so seriously. Especially when they involve Star Wars.

djtoell
09-16-04, 12:50 AM
Originally posted by darkside You have been doing all the insulting in this discussion.

Really? Who was it that rolled their eyes at the other and sarcastically attacked their credibility?

I already backed up what I said. Gilliam stood behind his movie and only put his name on it when the studio let him release the version he wanted.

That isn't backing up what you said. I said Gilliam prepared 3 cuts and put his name on them. You rolled your eyes and implied I was misinformed. Telling me about Gilliam standing behind his movie is irrelevant. I stated a fact. You rolled your eyes and sarcastically implied that I was misinformed. Either I had my facts straight when I said Gilliam prepared 3 cuts or I didn't. Which is it? It's a simple question. Let's see if you have the courage to answer it without avoiding the issue by trying to tie it into Lucas.

Did I have my facts straight or not? If not, specify which things in my statement were wrong and provide me with the correct information. It's a very simple task. Either Gilliam prepared 3 versions and put his name on them, or he didn't. Which is it?

Any other response to this question is a waste of time and proof that you had no clue what you were talking about when you tried to attack my credibility.

Sorry your honor was so insulted, but you really shouldn't take forums discusions so seriously. Especially when they involve Star Wars.

I take them even less seriously when populated by people whose egos outsize their knowledge of the subjects on which they speak by many times.

DJ

darkside
09-16-04, 01:01 AM
Originally posted by djtoell


I take them even less seriously when populated by people whose egos outsize their knowledge of the subjects on which they speak by many times.

DJ

rotfl

Greatest Star Wars Thread Ever

BTW, there are four versions of the film with Gilliam's name on them not three. The scene with Sam and Jill in bed is not in all the European versions. So get your facts straight and get your ego under control.

And honestly stop taking this stuff so seriously.

Kal-El
09-16-04, 01:06 AM
I thought this was about George Lucas and Star Wars...not Terry Gilliam? Maybe someone should start another thread? :D

On topic, :up: for Lucas. Like Jack said, ownage.

djtoell
09-16-04, 01:08 AM
Originally posted by darkside
Greatest Star Wars Thread Ever

...Says the one who brought up Terry Gilliam.

BTW, there are four versions of the film with Gilliam's name on them not three. So get your facts straight and get your ego under control.

Good job. You finally did a Google search and realized you were wrong. Anyhow, while 4 have his name on them, I've never read any confirmation that he was actually personally involved in the preparation of the Euro/Japanese video release, as opposed to the other 3. Still, assuming there really are 4 such releases, if the difference between 3 and 4 leads you to roll your eyes at another DVDTalker and sarcastically insult them, it says a heck of a lot more about you than it does about them.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. You had no clue what you were talking about and you don't have the guts to step up to the plate and admit it. How could I have expected anything else?

And honestly stop taking this stuff so seriously.

Honestly check your information before you try attacking other members. I'm taking this about as seriously as its worth, which is very little indeed. How seriously could one take it when someone who has no clue what they're talking about starts insulting others who do?

DJ

darkside
09-16-04, 01:09 AM
Originally posted by djtoell
than it does about them.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. You had no clue what you were talking about and you don't have the guts to step up to the plate and admit it. How could I have expected anything else?

DJ

You need a hug. :lol:

Jackskeleton
09-16-04, 01:31 AM
He does have a point. if Gilliam didn't approve of the other cuts then he shouldn't have signed his name on them, as you stated about lucas doing such action.

Blade
09-16-04, 01:37 AM
Originally posted by djtoell
Yes, it is. And after the fight was over, Gilliam put his name on three different versions of the film over a period of time. [/B] I thought that Gilliam theatrically released the film he wanted and that the others were released as a way for him to show how the studio tried to change things. If I'm remembering correctly, then that doesn't contradict the quote attributed to Gilliam about not putting your name on a film unless you're satisfied with it.

Regardless, that doesn't mean Lucas (or any other filmmaker) doesn't have the right to go back and modify their work. I actually like some of the changes he made to the original trilogy. I just think it's kind of off putting for him to completely disregard the feelings of a good number of the fans of his films. There's no reason to not put out both. He'll have the version he wants out, and those who want the original versions would have them too.

I've decided to just let this go already. If I can still enjoy Alec Baldwin's performances regardless of what I think of his politics, I can ignore how little Lucas seems to think of his fans.

djtoell
09-16-04, 01:55 AM
Originally posted by Blade
I thought that Gilliam theatrically released the film he wanted and that the others were released as a way for him to show how the studio tried to change things.

The European and US theatrical versions and the Criterion version were each different cuts that Gilliam prepared. The version released to prove a point about the studio situation, pretty much a piece of curiosity offered for completeness and education's sake on the Criterion set, is something else entirely, and not one of the versions which Gilliam has approved.

I think Gilliam is like many other filmmakers, but he has been lucky enough to get the opportunity with Brazil to revisit it to tweak it to his liking. This is a sort of opportunity that was probably well-earned in light of his struggles with the film. So was each previous version the best that Gilliam thought he could do at those times, and therefore worthy of his name? Perhaps. Gilliam surely wasn't completely happy with the final product on Twelve Monkeys, either, going by the documentary on the DVD. Again, perhaps he felt it was the best he could do in the situation and was worthy of his name (despite signing a sketch as "Alan Smithee" during production, as shown in the doc). And perhaps Lucas felt the original versions of his films were also worthy of his name at those times, as well. Like Gilliam sometimes has, he has the opportunity to try and make things even better in his eyes. Why Gilliam's position on this would be used to refute Lucas is strange to me; Gilliam is a prime example of a filmmaker using opportunities afforded to him in order to further get at what he wants.

DJ

Blade
09-16-04, 02:09 AM
Interesting...in that case, I agree, Gilliam seems to have done pretty much the same thing Lucas has to a point.

But isn't most of the outrage over Lucas' unwillingness to release the original versions on DVD and not the changes themselves? While many are obviously upset over the changes, I think they go on about it so much because the originals are unavailable on DVD. My point being that it's not a question of his right to make the changes, but more a question of his apparent lack of concern for his fans.

Twiggystar
09-16-04, 02:36 AM
Since when, a filmaker makes a movie, for his fans, for the fans?

Boy, I'm I glad that George, let all that shit out of his system.

George : 1
Fanboys : 0

Barry Woodward
09-16-04, 02:40 AM
Since Lucas is already prepping the trilogy for HD-DVD and is supposedly restoring deleted scenes to be included in the release, what would you say if he were to include the original versions of altered scenes in the deleted scenes section? That way fans get what they want and George Lucas doesn't get his version of the films undermined by the existence of alternative cuts. Everybody wins. Lucasfilm lackies, are you listening? Pass this idea on to Lucas as a compromise.

shaggy
09-16-04, 02:45 AM
[i]


BTW, I did enjoy the prequels about 5/6 ths as much as the originals but that's just my minority opinion. Had i seen the prequels as a child, I probably would have liked them just as much as the original trilogy. [/B]

Well said, I feel the prequels are excellent films and fit very well with the originals. I have always felt most of the backlash about the prequels comes from 20 years of anticipation. If Episode 1 was the first Star Wars the world had seen, it would have thrilled us the same way.

DVD007
09-16-04, 03:47 AM
I don't have a problem in general with his MASTER films, but there's NO WAY he can tell me he Originally had Greedo shooting First in his vision, but just couldn't get the effect right...I mean Come On!!!

Bruce

jarofclay73
09-16-04, 03:56 AM
After watching the documentary on the "THX 1138: Collector's Edition," I think I understand how Lucas feels about a third party coming in and telling him how his film should be. I don't think Lucas necessarily wanted popularity but he always wanted artistic freedom. The studios apparently had forced Lucas to make changes on both "THX 1138" and "American Graffiti." So, I think to Lucas, whether it's the studio or the fans (and both are suppliers of income), anyone who forces him to do his movie in their way he probably views as oppressive.

By the way, "THX 1138: Director's Cut" is a great example of how CG really adds to an older movie. Especially an older sci-fi movie.

QuiGonJosh
09-16-04, 04:56 AM
:thumbsup:

GuessWho
09-16-04, 08:44 AM
Originally posted by Dazed
At least he admits he doesnt pay any attention to the fans :D

That's fine. Filmmaking is not a democracy.

Joseph B
09-16-04, 09:17 AM
I still say that we'll get the original Star Wars movie in 2007 as a bonus feature component of the 30th Anniversary box. It might not be cleaned up all that well, but who cares?

I don't think we'll see ESB and/or ROTJ in their original forms ever again, though.

Anyway, I'm just very pleased to finally have the opportunity to purchase Star Wars on DVD in any form. The fact that these films now look and sound better than they ever have is a tremendous bonus. The included commentary tracks for each film, combined with the reportedly outstanding documentaries on the Bonus Disc, place this release just short of the LOTR as the best DVD release ever in my opinion!

I'm happy!!! (But still waiting for 2007 ...)

Get Me Coffee
09-16-04, 09:22 AM
Nothing will beat the LOTR documentaries...those are so detailed.

However, you're right the Empire of Dreams does come close. It was very enjoyable doc.

RockStrongo
09-16-04, 09:25 AM
I love the SE editions. I do not see why so many people complain. Both the SEs and the OTs have their issues.

My 2 main issues with the SEs/Prequels are...

1. Anakin storyline being focused on in the prequels. This will ruin the "I am your father" line for any new viewers who start with Episode 1. So, one day, when I show my kids these movies, they will know Darth is Luke's pappa before the line is uttered in ESB.

2. Han/Greedo shooting change. This was a terrible piece of crap added to the movies.

Overall, I like the changes and realize that they are Lucas's movies and he can do whatever the hell he wants.

So you want the originals? Keep your VHS copies.

Get Me Coffee
09-16-04, 09:30 AM
Originally posted by RockStrongo

1. Anakin storyline being focused on in the prequels. This will ruin the "I am your father" line for any new viewers who start with Episode 1. So, one day, when I show my kids these movies, they will know Darth is Luke's pappa before the line is uttered in ESB.


It's still up in the air whether or not we'll KNOW who Darth Vader is....for the first time viewers. We'll have to see what happens in EP3

RockStrongo
09-16-04, 09:40 AM
Originally posted by Get Me Coffee
It's still up in the air whether or not we'll KNOW who Darth Vader is....for the first time viewers. We'll have to see what happens in EP3

True....for MY benefit. I would like to see the transformation, but for viewers who have not seen the OT, he should keep it questionable.

But, the prequels DO make it alot easier to figure out that Darth is Anakin.

I wonder how Lucas will approach this? I guess we will see in May.

Iron_Giant
09-16-04, 09:44 AM
Originally posted by RockStrongo
I love the SE editions. I do not see why so many people complain. Both the SEs and the OTs have their issues.

My 2 main issues with the SEs/Prequels are...

1. Anakin storyline being focused on in the prequels. This will ruin the "I am your father" line for any new viewers who start with Episode 1. So, one day, when I show my kids these movies, they will know Darth is Luke's pappa before the line is uttered in ESB.

2. Han/Greedo shooting change. This was a terrible piece of crap added to the movies.

Overall, I like the changes and realize that they are Lucas's movies and he can do whatever the hell he wants.

So you want the originals? Keep your VHS copies.
I have the last version of the OT on VHS and I will be keeping them as collector items. But, when I watch Star Wars I will be using the DVDs. The only problem I have with the DVD set is that Greedo shots 1st. Other than that I love all the changes that have been added to the DVD set.

4 thumbs up to Lucas for putting out such a beautiful DVD set.

ThatGuamGuy
09-16-04, 09:54 AM
Originally posted by djtoell
I think Gilliam is like many other filmmakers, but he has been lucky enough to get the opportunity with Brazil to revisit it to tweak it to his liking.

Yeah, I agree. He was very lucky the American studio forced him to cut down his film or they'd cut it for him (and he would've taken his name off it).

Incidentally, you know that, by speaking publicly about the fight, he lost the right to Alan Smithee it, right?

The quote Gilliam said doesn't apply to 'Brazil', since Gilliam has always said he was satisfied with the American cut, it was just that the European cut was proper. When time came to release the Criterion, he used the American opening credits and a slightly modified closing credits. I don't think these changes really compare. Lucas, on the other hand, apparently publicly bad-mouthed 'Star Wars' for a decade. Obviously, you can see the difference between the two, I don't need to point it out (Gilliam only bad-mouthed Universal and Sheinberg, never 'Brazil').

Originally posted by PopcornTreeCt
I was actually thinking of Scorsese when I was writing it.

Somebody cue up the theme to 'New York, New York'. Edit-wise, that's Scorsese's 'Close Encounters'.

majorjoe23
09-16-04, 10:10 AM
The solution to not spoiling the "I am your father" line for your kids is to show them the films in the same order the rest of us watched them. You can add a 16 year gap between the trilogies as well, just for effect.

ThatGuamGuy
09-16-04, 11:29 AM
Originally posted by majorjoe23
The solution to not spoiling the "I am your father" line for your kids is to show them the films in the same order the rest of us watched them.

Didn't they spoil that line in these new special editions anyway? I was told (possibly wrongly, but I'm not buying the set either way) that: they've modified dialogue in the Emporer scene in 'Empire' so that Vader is told, on screen, by the Emporer, that he has a son he never knew about, to bring it in line with the upcoming release in which, assumably, he doesn't know he has kids.

Can somebody with the new 'Empire' disc confirm/deny that? I'd like to believe Lucas isn't *that* crazy ... but he seems to be determined to shatter that belief.

bboisvert
09-16-04, 11:33 AM
No, the new dialog mentions that Luke is the son of Anakin Skywalker. At that point, you are still unaware that Darth/Anakin are one and the same.

The Valeyard
09-16-04, 11:51 AM
***

darqleo
09-16-04, 12:28 PM
AP: Do you pay much attention to fan reactions to your choices?

Lucas: Not really. The movies are what the movies are. ... The thing about science-fiction fans and "Star Wars" fans is they're very independent-thinking people. They all think outside the box, but they all have very strong ideas about what should happen, and they think it should be their way. Which is fine, except I'm making the movies, so I should have it my way.

So..... the lessening of Jar Jar Binks' role and having Boba Fett, a character Lucas didn't understand what all the fanboy hubbub was about as he was basically a minor/throwaway character, wasn't due to paying attention to the fans? Some how I doubt that.

ThatGuamGuy
09-16-04, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by bboisvert
No, the new dialog mentions that Luke is the son of Anakin Skywalker. At that point, you are still unaware that Darth/Anakin are one and the same.

Oh, okay, that's not nearly as bad then. Thanks, bbo.

whaaat
09-16-04, 05:05 PM
Originally posted by majorjoe23
You can add a 16 year gap between the trilogies as well, just for effect.
:lol: Nice :up:

Mike Lowrey
09-16-04, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by Dazed
At least he admits he doesnt pay any attention to the fans :D

Sorry about this off-shoot comment, but I think it plays well here for this topic.

Kinda like Bush. But that's a good thing. During the pummeling Bush took during the Primaries and the early summer, Bush sat quiet and continued to lead the country. The second Kerry finally gets challenged (via the Swifties), Kerry becomes unhinged, and his poll numbers are falling because of it. This is testament to how he would act in office if elected. This is why Howard Dean wasn't nominated. I can't imagine what Kerry would do if confronted by someone like, say Putin, who wouldn't follow Kerry's lead.

George Lucas is like Bush. He doesn't care what people say about him. He makes his decisions on what and how he wants to make his movies and he does it. Some people love him for it, others hate him for it. But you can't go around through-out life always worrying about what others think of you. You do what you want to improve yourself or your work (of art) so you can be happy with yourself, or you listen to what a select few people say and continue to feel miserable about yourself.

Here's an example of what I mean by that in the political arena. During the build-up to the war in Iraq in early 2003, there were anti-war protests around the country. Sometimes pulling in a million participants. But more often just around 250,000 or so. This is a country of nearly 295 million people. Taking even the liberal number of a million anti-war protestors, that only amounts to 1/3 of 1% of the people of this country. Would you base your decision or opinion based on what less than 1% of the population thought? No. I sure wouldn't.

Well this is what Lucas is facing. Yes, there are people who hate the Special-Special Editions and won't buy the DVD set, but do you think Lucas cares about the few people who won't? Nope. He'll still get sales out the ying-yang from those who are just happy to finally have the OT on DVD, so he doesn't care about what a select few people thing about him or his "finishing job".

Mike Lowrey
09-16-04, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by bboisvert
No, the new dialog mentions that Luke is the son of Anakin Skywalker. At that point, you are still unaware that Darth/Anakin are one and the same.

In what year? 1980 or 2004?

DavidH
09-16-04, 07:20 PM
2004

Mike Lowrey
09-16-04, 08:29 PM
Originally posted by DavidH
2004

OK then, are you saying the PT doesn't exist?

darkside
09-16-04, 09:19 PM
Originally posted by Mike Lowrey
.

Well this is what Lucas is facing. Yes, there are people who hate the Special-Special Editions and won't buy the DVD set, but do you think Lucas cares about the few people who won't? Nope. He'll still get sales out the ying-yang from those who are just happy to finally have the OT on DVD, so he doesn't care about what a select few people thing about him or his "finishing job".

I agree. There may be a few people that refuse to buy the SEs, but they are too small to have any impact. I think even among the people that want the originals on DVD most would also want the SEs. Its a lot more about people wanting both than people only wanting the originals. Lets face it we love director's cuts and expanded editions on DVD.

Believe me if he had gone the other direction and decided not to alter the originals there would have been an outcry from many Star Wars fans wanting tie ins with the new trilogy and improved special effects. It works both ways.

I for one can't wait to pick up this new set and watch it. It would be nice to have the originals also on the set so the serious fans could sit and check out the different versions of the various scenes. Heck, I wouldn't have minded an uber set with all three versions on DVD to sit and see how the film had evolved. Its not an option though (other than laserdisc and bootlegs) so thats really the end of it.

The fact is the number of people that care about the originals is a small fraction. Most people are either too young or not big enough fans to remember them anyway. When Lucas says its not worth the costs involved to restore the originals he is probably right. Sales of the set would probably not be impacted that greatly by the originals being on it. Doesn't mean I agree 100%, but the reality is there.

bboisvert
09-16-04, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by Mike Lowrey
In what year? 1980 or 2004?

Either, I suppose. If you're watching in 1980, you don't know the connection. If you're watching in 2004, even watching in order -- I, II, IV, V, VI... you still don't know about Anakin/Vader until ESB.

The only question is what things will be like in 2005 and beyond. Does Episode III 'spoil' the issue? Or does he leave the transformation vague and not make it clear until ESB?

Fok
09-16-04, 09:55 PM
If he's worried about bootlegs now, he's a few years too late. Its funny because I'm sure there will be bootlegs of the originals....that means less $$ for Lucas. But hey, its his movies and he can do what he wants.

Cartload
09-16-04, 10:11 PM
I think Lucas might make the Anakin/Vader connection an instance of Alfred Hitchcock's classic "bomb under the table" scenario. This scenario states that it is more suspenseful for the audience to know about the bomb before it explodes (while the characters are oblivious to its presence) than using a shocking explosion to reveal its presence.

Future generations will know the connection between Anakin and Vader, and the suspense will lie in when Luke finds out rather than its revelation to us.

Josh-da-man
09-16-04, 11:02 PM
And a key difference between "Brazil" and "Star Wars" is that all three versions of "Brazil" are readily available to this day. So any comparisons to the "Star Wars" situation are pointless.

And I think this is worth repeating. Fans are not upset because George Lucas is changing his movies, they're upset because he's replacing the originals with the modified versions. It's as simple as that.

Yes, he has every right to do whatever he wants to with his movies. He can decide to stick them up his ass and never let them see the light of day again. He can release any version he wants to. He can change them as much as he wants to. With Disney's permission, he can change Luke Skywalker to Mickey fucking Mouse if he wants to, and no fanboy in the world can do shit about it.

But even though he owns the movies and can do with as he pleases, everyone still has the right to disagree with his decisions. It works both ways. He has the right to change them, but likewise, every consumer also has the right to not support his decision with their hard-earned dollars.

George Lucas might think having Greedo shoot first by awkwardly tweaking a movie shot twenty-five years ago is a vast improvement. It's his right. But nobody can be forced to respect his opinion. It is likewise their right to disagree.

And since when can the viewer not disagree with the decisions made by filmmakers? Where would film criticism be? Does that mean I have to enjoy or respect "Catwoman" or "Gigli" because they represent the complete creative visions of their respective directors?

darkside
09-16-04, 11:19 PM
Originally posted by Josh-da-man
And a key difference between "Brazil" and "Star Wars" is that all three versions of "Brazil" are readily available to this day. So any comparisons to the "Star Wars" situation are pointless.


Another thing is there is no interest in the shorter cut of Brazil. If it was lost forever no one would care. When the original Star Trek film was altered for its DVD release very few people if anyone cared about the loss of the original version. Mainly because it sucked, but more importanly because its just not a very important film in film history.

Star Wars falls in with the classics and people want the original theatrical cuts of those to live on. Its not always possible though. Look at the situation with the Chaplin films. He never stopped tinkering with those during his life.

Terrell
09-16-04, 11:22 PM
George Lucas might think having Greedo shoot first by awkwardly tweaking a movie shot twenty-five years ago is a vast improvement.

Well, I'll tell you why I believe Lucas changed that scene, and it has nothing to do with being politically correct. I believe Lucas took an honest look at that scene. Han was not a bad guy. He was a pirate and a rogue, who cared only for himself. But he was not a cold-blooded murderer, and that's exactly how that scene portrays him. You can argue whether he thought Greedo was going to kill him first, but Greedo didn't. That's all semantics. Han shot first and that made him a murderer. That scene makes him no better than Vader, because a muderer is a murderer. Only in degrees do they differ.

Now, Lucas' explanation for why he changed that scene is not true. But I believe that's why he changed it because Han was not supposed to be a murderer. Lucas realized he made a mistake, at least in his mind, by having Han shoot Greedo first. Whether you agree or not with this assessment, but that's why I believe he changed it.

That's my belief, and I prefer the original Han shoots first scene. But it makes sense to me. At least the new scene is quite an improvement over the '97 SE edit.

DRG
09-16-04, 11:59 PM
I certainly respect his views on this, and he's being honest. But I do take exception to one thing he said...

It's like this is the movie I wanted it to be, and I'm sorry you saw half a completed film and fell in love with it.

That's fine and dandy, but the problem with this logic is that we were never told the films were half completed at the time. We never got a "Don't get too attached to these, because these are just rough drafts!" warning before the opening scrawl.

jaeufraser
09-17-04, 12:29 AM
Originally posted by Cartload
I think Lucas might make the Anakin/Vader connection an instance of Alfred Hitchcock's classic "bomb under the table" scenario. This scenario states that it is more suspenseful for the audience to know about the bomb before it explodes (while the characters are oblivious to its presence) than using a shocking explosion to reveal its presence.

Future generations will know the connection between Anakin and Vader, and the suspense will lie in when Luke finds out rather than its revelation to us.

I honestly hope Lucas ignores the revelation arc that would exist if taking the films in order, and perceive them as they were released. Regardless of the numbering, the last three should be watched first if possible.

And hopefully Episode 3 shows Anakin become Darth Vadar. I know that's what I'd like to see. We'll see, but this is the last Star Wars film. I doubt he'll leave it vague.

Terrell
09-17-04, 12:35 AM
And hopefully Episode 3 shows Anakin become Darth Vadar. I know that's what I'd like to see.

Agreed!

That's fine and dandy, but the problem with this logic is that we were never told the films were half completed at the time.

Well, I think what Lucas is referring to is not being able to do some things in his mind, because of technology limitations. I also see him as not being happy with a number of flawed effects from the originals. I think when he sees these things in the originals, he just can't help himself. He wants to fix it as best he can.

cactusoly
09-17-04, 01:44 AM
Originally posted by DRG
I certainly respect his views on this, and he's being honest. But I do take exception to one thing he said...



That's fine and dandy, but the problem with this logic is that we were never told the films were half completed at the time. We never got a "Don't get too attached to these, because these are just rough drafts!" warning before the opening scrawl.

although it isn't stated in the movie itself, Lucas has said that the film was never finished in various interviews as far back as 1977.

Twiggystar
09-17-04, 02:30 AM
Originally posted by Get Me Coffee
Nothing will beat the LOTR documentaries...those are so detailed.

However, you're right the Empire of Dreams does come close. It was very enjoyable doc.

I'm gonna tell you why Empire of Dreams, beats all of the lotr docs combined.

There was almost nobody covering the making of Star Wars back on 1976. It cost only 8 millions to make, and Fox didn't really care for it, until went over-budget and over-schedule.

Compared that to when lotr was made,which was barely a few years ago, with more than 300 millions, do you really think that New Line, wouldn't have this films very well documented, to show people the making, of the most risky movies ever made?

JTH182
09-17-04, 03:22 AM
Originally posted by RockStrongo
I love the SE editions. I do not see why so many people complain. Both the SEs and the OTs have their issues.

My 2 main issues with the SEs/Prequels are...

1. Anakin storyline being focused on in the prequels. This will ruin the "I am your father" line for any new viewers who start with Episode 1. So, one day, when I show my kids these movies, they will know Darth is Luke's pappa before the line is uttered in ESB.



So show your kids the originals first... Prequels are just that: Sequels that take place before the original. They are meant to be watched after seeing the original, for back-story.

darkside
09-17-04, 03:46 AM
Originally posted by JTH182
So show your kids the originals first... Prequels are just that: Sequels that take place before the original. They are meant to be watched after seeing the original, for back-story.

Half the fun of watching a prequel is picking out all the things that lead to something you know happened in the later series. That is kind of the way they are designed.

So, I agree with watching the prequels last, but the series will work fine either way.

LuisL
09-17-04, 03:57 AM
i don't mind the SE's as i'm not old enough to remember the originals, nor when i last saw them. i agree with him that they are his films and he can do as he wishes with them. he's explained why he went back and fixed them up, money, technology, etc...

Qui Gon Jim
09-17-04, 08:12 AM
Originally posted by Josh-da-man
And I think this is worth repeating.

I disagree.

TylerDurden_73
09-17-04, 08:49 AM
Lucas is an artist, and Iam the buyer.

Toad
09-17-04, 09:01 AM
I'm probably alone here. As much as I want to see how Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader for coolness and interest, I don't think he should show it.

There are ways to do it, though, that can satisfy both groups of people: those who want to see the transformation and those who don't and/or are unaware at this point that Anakin becomes Darth Vader.

For instance, we're going to see Anakin go bad, that's no question. But we could see him 'rescued' or whatever and operated on; the last scene of the movie could be Darth Vader coming to the Emperor saying something like "What is thy bidding, my master." Those who know will be like "sweet, there's Vader!" Those who don't know will be like, "whoa who's that scary dude?!" Yeah that was cheesy, I know.

Point is, there are ways to do it so that when Vader reveals himself to Luke SOME people are surprised. Obviously everyone born before 2005 will know - even the little kids who have seen the OT. Whether or not Lucas is such a visionary as to ponder future audiences, that's up in the air.

I think since he's so keen on showing connections between all minor people in this major universe, he'll certainly show it.

Qui Gon Jim
09-17-04, 12:22 PM
I agree, Toad. Another thing that would be cool is if Sidious never uses any force, and that is all saved for the climax of ROTJ. I wish that Dooku hadn't used sith lightning in AOTC.

jough
09-18-04, 02:36 PM
The real problem with young kids seeing any of the Star Wars films for the first time (in any order) is that the "I am your father!" thing is such a cliché now that they could see something similar in another film and find it cheesy when they see it in Star Wars, not knowing what a shocking revelation it was when ESB was in theatres.

mikewendt
09-18-04, 06:09 PM
I honestly never read through entire Star Wars threads 'cause they're so damn long... But I couldn't stop reading this one. The bitching and one-upping that has gone on in this thread has me f//king rolling.

Terry Gilliam, How many versions of Brazil are there really & is Gilliam's name on them by force or choice, Scorsese & New York New York, Close Encounters, Lord of the Rings, Lucas supporters & haters, scenes changed, lines changed, Special Editions, Original Trilogy, he doesn't pay attention to us, or does he, there's a painter breaking into house and updating his work for free, and of course no Star Wars bitchfest is complete without the ever popular "Greedo Shooting First" comment...

Damn, my head is spinning... I'm gonna go get an asprin and watch The George Lucas Director's Cut of THX 1138...

Oh shit, now I've really opened up the box. Or since I like Star Wars & "think outside the box..." There was never really a box to open... OH MY GOD I'VE CONFUSED MYSELF! AAAAHHHHHH!!!!


Ah, I'm just f//king with ya... Everyone need to just chill and except the fact that we are all sheep in the same heard and when Hearder Lucas says round up and spend... We will. Over and over again.

djtoell
09-19-04, 12:47 AM
Originally posted by Josh-da-man
And a key difference between "Brazil" and "Star Wars" is that all three versions of "Brazil" are readily available to this day. So any comparisons to the "Star Wars" situation are pointless.

Really? Please tell me where I can purchase the US theatrical cut. (Hint: the barebones Universal R1 disc features the Criterion cut, not the US theatrical cut - the US theatrical cut isn't on DVD anywhere). It's about as readily available as the original versions of the Original Trilogy. And while the European cut is the version out on DVD in various parts of the world, it isn't exactly "readily available" down at the local video store in the US.

Originally posted by darkside
Another thing is there is no interest in the shorter cut of Brazil. If it was lost forever no one would care.

Please do not attribute your personal thoughts to the world at large. I would absolutely love to have the US theatrical cut on DVD, as it features a key joke that was excised from the Criterion cut.

DJ

The Valeyard
09-19-04, 01:13 AM
Originally posted by mikewendt
Ah, I'm just f//king with ya... Everyone need to just chill and except the fact that we are all sheep in the same heard and when Hearder Lucas says round up and spend... We will. Over and over again.


Sorry. You're wrong about that.

Andrew

Edited because I didn't want to get suspended for being a jerk!

darkside
09-19-04, 01:19 AM
Finally the thread gets back to the real important topic Terry Gilliam's Brazil. About time. :lol:

djtoell
09-19-04, 01:34 AM
Originally posted by darkside
Finally the thread gets back to the real important topic Terry Gilliam's Brazil. About time. :lol:

Deflective sarcasm about the subject being off-topic rings just a bit hollow, given that you're the one who brought up Gilliam in this thread in the first place. It's apparently on-topic enough whenever you want to post about it; whenever something you say is challeneged, however, you instantly feign complaints of it being off-topic. But I guess it beats having to actually put together constructive replies, huh?

DJ

Countdown to unresponsive one-liner reply from from darkside featuring either :lol: or :rolleyes: in 5, 4, 3...

darkside
09-19-04, 01:46 AM
Originally posted by djtoell


Countdown to unresponsive one-liner reply from from darkside featuring either :lol: or :rolleyes: in 5, 4, 3...

Wrong again. Its this one.

rotfl

My statement about the Brazil movie was clear to understand. I'm pretty sure everyone on this forum understands we each speak our opinions and do not speak for the entire world. I'll try to get my lawyer to read over my responses in the future though to keep from upseting you.

The point about there being very little interest in the shorter cuts of Brazil and Star Trek compared to Star Wars was clear enough for anyone not trying to nitpick. You are just going out of your way to insult me at every opportunity and by all means enjoy yourself. I'm actually enjoying the hell out of it. I really didn't mean to piss you off with the rolleyes and misread your meaning of three films at the time. However, if something like a rolleye disrupts your world this badly then vent away. Because its obvious you are not going to get over it.

I await you carefully worded insult.

BTW, this does need to stay film related. I happily give you the last word and won't bring it up again.

djtoell
09-19-04, 02:08 AM
Originally posted by darkside

My statement about the Brazil movie was clear to understand. I'm pretty sure everyone on this forum understands we each speak our opinions and do not speak for the entire world.

Your statement was quite clear: you claimed to be speaking for everyone. If you were only speaking for yourself, why bother couching your statements in terms of everyone? Does it make you feel more secure to hide your own thoughts within what you believe to be popular opinion?

I'll try to get my lawyer to read over my responses in the future though to keep from upseting you.

It doesn't upset me when you make yourself look silly. It should upset you, though.

The point about there being very little interest in the shorter cuts of Brazil and Star Trek compared to Star Wars was clear enough for anyone not trying to nitpick.

It was clear, and, even being generous enough to assume that by "no one" you meant something other than the obvious, probably wrong. Those films, especially Brazil, have less interest in them in general than Star Wars; your point that significantly less people want something Brazil-related than Star Wars-related is obvious at best and pointless at worst. The interesting query would instead be what percentage of die-hard fans are interested in the various versions. Brazil fans, I've seen over the years, have strong intersts in acquiring all of the versions; as a percentage of total fans of the film, it may well be quite a significant number. Is the percentage of die-hard Brazil fans who want, among other things, the punchline only available in the US theatrical cut as large as the percentage of die-hard Star Wars fans who want the original versions? Could be. Dismissing it out of hand just because you're apparently not interested in it, however, is a smug error.

Because its obvious you are not going to get over it.

I'm quite over it. I even moved on enough to make a post that dealt with just film-related content, remember? You ruined this experiment in actual discussion with a typical deflective and sarcastic non-response that failed to contribute anything, off-topic or otherwise. You keep derailing attempts at discussion, not me. If you want me to move on, then let me do it: shut up and discuss films already. I realize this would force you to stop talking about yourself, which would obviously be very difficult for you, but let's see if it can happen. I have my fingers crossed, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

DJ

abaez
09-20-04, 01:11 AM
I'm trying to understand George's answer. From what I've read they went through the original negatives and cleaned them up frame by frame.. now how would it cost millions to restore the originals if the original negatives (or whatever was restored) were the ones cleaned up. I mean he ADDED the shots and edits.. he can just as easily take them away and have what we've had all this time. It's not like he has to restore his computer effects edited in the past few years.

chrismcg
09-20-04, 01:19 AM
Originally posted by ResIpsa
So he basically admits that he is releasing these now in order to cash in before he anticipates the market will drop (maybe as a result of the next wave of HD-DVD, who knows). An honest response but fuel for the Luca$ bashers.... :johnwoo:

I don't care either way but Lucas comes across as a little bit arrogant in the interview. I mean, sure it's his movie and all but if I had made millions (or was it billions?) from these movies, I would be inclined to be a little nicer to the fans who made me rich. Bitching that it would cost millions to put the original versions out seems kinda callous, and how would it cost millions anyway?

Well said... and to quote the man himself...

"I am very concerned about our national heritage, and I am very concerned that the films that I watched when I was young and the films that I watched throughout my life are preserved, so that my children can see them."
--George Lucas on colorization of B&W films (originaltrilogy.com)...

Duder
09-20-04, 03:53 AM
Originally posted by djtoell
Really? Please tell me where I can purchase the US theatrical cut. (Hint: the barebones Universal R1 disc features the Criterion cut, not the US theatrical cut - the US theatrical cut isn't on DVD anywhere).

I own both the Universal DVD and the Criterion DVD, and the cuts are considerably different. Considering the Criterion DVD collection also contains the craptastic studio edit version, I own 3 different cuts of Brazil on DVD.

On topic, George can do whatever the hell he wants. It's his right and his product, after all. However, as fans and consumers, we can also express our desire to have the original works of cinema which made such a huge impact on recent popular culture. George has the right to ignore those of us who want the original versions, and we have the right to not buy them and to say so.

In the end, it's not worth fighting over the internet over, because it all comes down to personal choice. George has made his choice, and now we make ours, and we all get on with our lives.

Jackskeleton
09-20-04, 04:57 AM
Originally posted by chrismcg
Well said... and to quote the man himself...

"I am very concerned about our national heritage, and I am very concerned that the films that I watched when I was young and the films that I watched throughout my life are preserved, so that my children can see them."
--George Lucas on colorization of B&W films (originaltrilogy.com)...


a little out of context since he was speaking about something different.

Static Cling
09-20-04, 05:15 AM
Play nice, djtoell & darkside.

Class316
09-20-04, 12:52 PM
Q: Why not release both the originals and special editions on DVD?

LUCAS: The special edition, that's the one I wanted out there. The other movie, it's on VHS, if anybody wants it. ...

I'm not going to spend the, we're talking millions of dollars here, the money and the time to refurbish that, because to me, it doesn't really exist anymore. It's like this is the movie I wanted it to be, and I'm sorry you saw half a completed film and fell in love with it. But I want it to be the way I want it to be.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/Movies/09/20/film.qa.george.lucas.ap/index.html

The thing is he talks about how he wasn't able to do it "as he wanted" yet I don't see why he couldn't have had Greedo shoot first in 1977 if he really wanted to.

And I don't think why he couldn't have *at the very very least* restored the original non-CGI Han/Greedo scene.

Get Me Coffee
09-20-04, 01:05 PM
Nerf-Herders!

flyboy
09-20-04, 01:20 PM
I compare him to Jerry Jones the Dallas Cowboys owner. He built Rome and then started burning it himself....

George is doing the same..he had three films that were perfect as they were..full of magic and wonder and were held in the highest regards...then he decides 15 years later to do prequels and in doing so fucks up the original films forever just to try and fit them to these inferior prequels...

...and then has the balls to slam the very people that grew up and supported his "half finished" films (although he never told us they were half finished!)

PatrickMcCart
09-20-04, 01:38 PM
Leonardo DaVinci revised the Mona Lisa time after time over the course of a few decades. Now, who's going to say that Leo should have left well enough alone?

:)

NaturalMystic79
09-20-04, 04:02 PM
Is it true that the SEs will have the original theatrical version as easter eggs?

darkside
09-20-04, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by Class316
[url]
The thing is he talks about how he wasn't able to do it "as he wanted" yet I don't see why he couldn't have had Greedo shoot first in 1977 if he really wanted to.


That has come up earlier, but like some of the changes Speilburg made in ET I think it was something that bothered him later and is not part of the "original vision" at least in '77. I don't believe his vision of the film in '77 is exactly the same as it ended up being when the '97 edition was done. Most probably was, but his vision of the film is going to get changed slighty from 1977 by things he did in the other films later on. The new version has evolved even further than the '97 version by his experience with the new trilogy.

djtoell
09-20-04, 09:12 PM
Originally posted by Duder
I own both the Universal DVD and the Criterion DVD, and the cuts are considerably different.

Unless you've got some special disc that never made it to public market, I would double-check that before betting any money on it, if I were you. As the review at The Digital Bits (http://www.thedigitalbits.com/reviews/brazilcriterion.html) describes:

"I'd like to also give a brief review for the Universal DVD edition of Brazil, because it has some importance in all this. You see, the Universal edition is the Criterion edition -- just at a lesser quality. I have no idea how or why, but the time listed on the back spec chart lists the Universal edition at the original American length of 2 hours 11 minutes. But it is, in fact, the full director's cut of 2 hours and 23 minutes."

Similar descriptions (http://www.dvdtown.com/review/Brazil/178/35/) are to be found (http://www.yanman.com/HomeTheater/Reviews/BrazilReview.htm) in other reviews (http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/dvdcompare/brazil.htm).

DJ

Class316
09-20-04, 09:33 PM
Look at the poll: http://www.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/Movies/09/20/star.changes/index.html

Jackskeleton
09-20-04, 09:44 PM
and look at lucas' response to what the fans want at the beginning of the thread. He doesn't care what they want.

duff beer
09-20-04, 09:47 PM
Lucas: To me, the special edition ones are the films I wanted to make. Anybody that makes films knows the film is never finished. It's abandoned or it's ripped out of your hands, and it's thrown into the marketplace, never finished. It's a very rare experience where you find a filmmaker who says, "That's exactly what I wanted. I got everything I needed. I made it just perfect. I'm going to put it out there." And even most artists, most painters, even composers would want to come back and redo their work now. They've got a new perspective on it, they've got more resources, they have better technology, and they can fix or finish the things that were never done. ... I wanted to actually finish the film the way it was meant to be when I was originally doing it. At the beginning, people went, "Don't you like it?" I said, "Well, the film only came out to be 25 or 30 percent of what I wanted it to be." They said, "What are you talking about?" So finally, I stopped saying that, but if you read any interviews for about an eight- or nine-year period there, it was all about how disappointed I was and how unhappy I was and what a dismal experience it was. You know, it's too bad you need to get kind of half a job done and never get to finish it. So this was my chance to finish it.

Perfection can never be achieved in art by humans. Humans will never be "perfect" until the end of time if that ever comes. It was too bad he couldn't finish it the way he wanted to, but apparently adding some new effects (CGI) which turned out much worse when next to the old costumes and sets. The man fails to see at all that you have your time to complete your work before presenting it to the masses on such a wide scale, then 30 years later you decide to change it around because you feel you can make it a tad more perfect. That's not how we are, to be perfect, is to be like God, and that is not a good thing. The Star Wars trilogy remains the greatest trilogy ever, yes even better than the Godfather trilogy or any other that comes to mind so to us it is perfection. What if the Greek mythologies were changed around to be more "perfect" what then?

darkside
09-20-04, 09:58 PM
The first thing my art teacher taught me was never to erase. Live with your mistakes and make them part of the artwork. Screw my art teacher, I'm putting that shit into photoshop and fixing it.

Thanks George Lucas for showing me the right way to do things. :up:

Seriously though I think the flaws in a movie can be part of the charm. Improved CGI didn't make it a better movie to me. However, George disagrees and he owns the negatives so those of us that want both versions on DVD are screwed.

Crocker Jarmen
09-21-04, 01:34 AM
Originally posted by PatrickMcCart
Leonardo DaVinci revised the Mona Lisa time after time over the course of a few decades. Now, who's going to say that Leo should have left well enough alone?

:)

I will, I preffered the original painting that I and my good friend Saint Germaine fell in love with. It had more cleavage, kangaroos and a trampoline act.

Duder
09-21-04, 02:49 AM
Originally posted by djtoell
Unless you've got some special disc that never made it to public market, I would double-check that before betting any money on it, if I were you.

Okay, I did double-check, and you're right. That's very weird. My memory of watching the movie on VHS over and over must have blended with my Universal DVD, cause I could've sworn that it was the theatrical cut on that disc, and I first saw the additional scenes on the Criterion. I guess I'm getting old. :P

Class316
09-21-04, 09:38 AM
Mark Hamill answers questions about 'Star Wars' DVD

Well, it's hard for me because I am a purist. I say I want to see not the colorized version of "King Kong," I want to see the black-and-white one as it was released in the theaters.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/Movies/09/20/sidebar.hamill/index.html

Prancetron2000
09-21-04, 02:47 PM
I've thought about this for a while and I've decided that if I ever have kids, I will show them the Star Wars movies in order, starting with Episode I. It's true that ESB's revelation won't have as much impact on them if they start with the prequels, but I believe it will make the entire saga far more interesting to watch if you do not know that Anakin becomes evil. Think about it for a minute. In Episode I you see Anakin as a young, innocent boy who's a slave, and has potential to be the greatest Jedi ever. Kids will really look up to him. Then in Episode II you'll see how cocky and overconfident he has become, though he's still mostly good but lets his emotions get the better of him. You'll become shocked and saddened by the death of his mother and sympathize with Anakin and understand his thirst for revenge. Then in Episode III you see his final turn to the dark side, become shocked at its darkness and think about what led to his downfall. And most likely, you will hate him for what he does (and yes, you do see him become Vader in Ep 3).

Following that you will watch Episode IV, and the title "A New Hope" with have that much more significance after the depressing and pessimistic Episode III. You'll see Luke's life parallel his father's in many ways and see how his choices affected his character and how different and similar he is to Anakin. And then of course, in Episode VI when Luke is about to die and Vader turns good for that final moment, the emotional impact will be far greater than if you started watching with Episode IV. That's basically how I feel about all of this.

Prancetron2000
09-21-04, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by PatrickMcCart
Leonardo DaVinci revised the Mona Lisa time after time over the course of a few decades. Now, who's going to say that Leo should have left well enough alone?

:)

Is that true?

duff beer
09-21-04, 02:56 PM
No he's just screwing around

Terrell
09-21-04, 03:01 PM
but apparently adding some new effects (CGI) which turned out much worse when next to the old costumes and sets.

That's not how I see it.

Crocker Jarmen
09-21-04, 03:47 PM
Originally posted by Prancetron2000
Is that true?

Yes. I have read that when DaVinci would periodicly return to Florence he would continue to work on the portrait.

Prancetron2000
09-21-04, 03:49 PM
Do you know of any articles that could prove that?

tacomantt
09-21-04, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by Crocker Jarmen
Yes. I have read that when DaVinci would periodicly return to Florence he would continue to work on the portrait.

Yeah, but early on he had only watercolors, but later in life technology brought him oil pants.

duff beer
09-21-04, 07:29 PM
I don't think they had oil pants back then, but Da Vinci did use oil paints.

jaeufraser
09-21-04, 10:03 PM
Originally posted by duff beer
I don't think they had oil pants back then, but Da Vinci did use oil paints.

Not to mention...Mona Lisa didn't shoot first in the orignal painting.

Mike Lowrey
09-21-04, 10:21 PM
Originally posted by darkside
The first thing my art teacher taught me was never to erase. Live with your mistakes and make them part of the artwork. Screw my art teacher, I'm putting that shit into photoshop and fixing it.

Thanks for the sig.

duff beer
09-21-04, 11:04 PM
That's nice that in our modernized world we can do everything with computers in this "computer age" But throughout the ages folks did have to live with their mistakes.

darqleo
09-21-04, 11:11 PM
Originally posted by duff beer
That's nice that in our modernized world we can do everything with computers in this "computer age" But throughout the ages folks did have to live with their mistakes.

"Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should." - Dr. Ian Malcolm, JURASSIC PARK

darqleo
09-23-04, 02:26 PM
Another Lucas interview :

http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/starwars/lucas.html

Kube
09-23-04, 09:56 PM
Did they ever air the George Lucas interview with Charlie Rose?


Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0