is the canadian Passion of the Christ really full bit rate DTS?

[Rypro 525]

theres a rumor floating around on htf that the dvd thats in canada that was released by Warner/Equinox has a full bit rate DTS track. why can't fox do the same for the US?

[gbub]

I didn't think a full bit rate track could fit on one DVD as seen with Dances with Wolves.

[Green Jello]

Originally posted by gbub
I didn't think a full bit rate track could fit on one DVD as seen with Dances with Wolves.

Sure it will. It all depends on the length of the movie. DWW is only that way because the film is 181 minutes and they would have to compress the hell out of the video to make it fit.

Another good example of this is Apollo 13. The Dolby Digital version has a few extras, but the video is also at a higher bit rate.

[emhello]

Fox just wants to get your money twice. :D

[BlackBeauty92]

so.... is the 'rumor' true?? where's our fellow canadian, eh?

[eXcentris]

Well, I have the disc but my pre-amp only has DD5.1 :)

[Skyler]

Ouch!

[Eric F]

Stick it in your PC- if you have a DVD-Rom that is.

[eXcentris]

I just tried that but my audio card doesn't support DTS either.

[eXcentris]

I can ask folks on a Canadian forum I go to. How would one know if a DTS track has "full bit rate"?

[DonnachaOne]

Full bitrate is about 1500 kbps, I believe.

[eXcentris]

Ok I asked. There are a few people there with the disc so hopefully we'll get an answer.

[Chili Palmer]

According to a thread over at HTF, the Canadian release is indeed a full bit dts track along with some of the other regions over seas. The US R1 is the standard half rate 754.5Kbps. Full dts bit rate is at 1509Kbps

[zyzzle]

What's the point on having a 1509 kbps bitrate Audio track, if the picture quality is correspondingly degraded because of that high bitrate audio? 1509 kbps is a *huge* cost to pay, which is probably > 25% of the total bitrate of the movie itself!! Is the difference in 768 vs 1509 *really* worth it? I'm just trying to understand, that's all. For all that's worth, how is 768 really better than 448 kbps 5.1?

Thoughts on maximizing audio at the expense of picture quality?

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

So, the obvious follow-up question is... What's the best deal available to acquire the Canadian version?

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

Max DVD bit-rate is on the order of 9500kbps. So you are looking at 9500kbps - 448kbps(max AC3 track) - 1509(max DTS track) = 7543kbps available for video. That is still a substantial portion of the bits for video, a lot of DVDs are down in the 5000kbps range and still look pretty good.

[Dammit]

What's the total storage capacity of a dual sided dvd? Passion is using up 7,484MB's. The DTS track is only using 679MB's (full bit rate would be like 1300MB's or something). For the curious, the DD track is taking up 399MB's of space.

I thought storage potential was something like 8.5 gigs. If that's the case they could have gone full bit rate without sacrificing any video quality (I think, someone correct me if I'm wrong here).

[J.P.V.]

Originally posted by zyzzle
What's the point on having a 1509 kbps bitrate Audio track, if the picture quality is correspondingly degraded because of that high bitrate audio? 1509 kbps is a *huge* cost to pay, which is probably > 25% of the total bitrate of the movie itself!! Is the difference in 768 vs 1509 *really* worth it? I'm just trying to understand, that's all. For all that's worth, how is 768 really better than 448 kbps 5.1?

Thoughts on maximizing audio at the expense of picture quality?

Actually, the Canadian version also has a higher bit rate for the video as well.

Canada:
Video - 6,738 MB's

USA:
Video - 6,010 MB's

[Masamune]

I check this out at work tomorrow for you guys. I'll see if it says DTS or not.

[DonnachaOne]

Originally posted by Masamune
I check this out at work tomorrow for you guys. I'll see if it says DTS or not. Appreciated, but the question isn't whether or not it has dts, but does it have full bitrate dts.

[zyzzle]

Very interesting info posted on the space consumed by video for Canadian vs US version... Looks like the Canadian Release is the one to *definitely* get: a 12% increase in average video bitrate (6734 MB vs 6011 MB) and full-rate 1536 kbps DTS also?

Yes, the capacity of a DVD-9 is 8.5 GB. Infuriating is the fact that this full capacity is *very often* not utilized... Case in point is THE PASSION US release, as documented above! Most Superbits are not so "Super" when one discovers that the movie only takes 5 to 6 GB out of the 8.5 GB available. I know bitrate isn't everything, but, all else being equal, find me a case where more bits does not equate to better picture quality.

Can we assume the same master for THE PASSION was used for the US and Canadian Releases? Therefore, by default, we know that the Candian version will have better picture quality than the US version.

[cultshock]

I guess I'll be picking up the Canadian version. I saw it at Walmart for about $25.00 CDN. Anyone know if there is a cheaper price at other Canadian B&M stores (Futureshop, Best Buy, Costco?). Or hell, maybe I'll just wait for a PV copy at Blockbuster or Jumbo.

[Green Jello]

Originally posted by Jah-Wren Ryel
Max DVD bit-rate is on the order of 9500kbps. So you are looking at 9500kbps - 448kbps(max AC3 track) - 1509(max DTS track) = 7543kbps available for video. That is still a substantial portion of the bits for video, a lot of DVDs are down in the 5000kbps range and still look pretty good.

I'm not sure of the exact technical aspects involved in this, but that math just doesn't work out. There are plenty of discs out there that list:

Video = 9800
DD = 448
DTS = 754

That totals 10554 bps for DTS and 10248 for DD since only one audio track is being used at a time. Plus there has to be more room for subtitles if they are turned on (although that would be minor).

[Robert George]

...a 12% increase in average video bitrate (6734 MB vs 6011 MB) and full-rate 1536 kbps DTS also?

Not exactly correct. 12% increase in video file size, not average bit rate.

Also, the potential problem with a 1509 kb/s DTS track is not the total file size, but the amount of headroom consumed by audio that is taken away from video. DVD uses variable bit rate MPEG compression which means the bit rate varies based on what any particular frame needs at any particular time. It is quite common for difficult-to-compress material to require the maximum available data rate to avoid artifacts. If 20% or more of the available bandwidth is given over to audio, then it is possible the video will have to be compromised at some point.

Lastly, the maximum data rate for DVD of about 9.8 mb/s is for everything, and audio and subtitle tracks are part of that, even if not selected.

[actyper]

Originally posted by cultshock
I guess I'll be picking up the Canadian version. I saw it at Walmart for about $25.00 CDN. Anyone know if there is a cheaper price at other Canadian B&M stores (Futureshop, Best Buy, Costco?). Or hell, maybe I'll just wait for a PV copy at Blockbuster or Jumbo.

$23.99 at Shoppers Drug Mart.

[Masamune]

Anyone care to send me some $$$ and I'll get you all the Canadian versions you want? Just kidding.

LOL!

I will check out the back in detail and see what's up.

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

Not exactly correct. 12% increase in video file size, not average bit rate.

Since average bit rate is equal to file size divided by playing time, I don't see how one can grow by 12% if the other does not. Unless you want to use a different definition for average such as median or mode.

It is quite common for difficult-to-compress material to require the maximum available data rate to avoid artifacts. If 20% or more of the available bandwidth is given over to audio, then it is possible the video will have to be compromised at some point.

That is definitely a potential problem, although I thought variable-rate MPEG2 could "pre-load" bits for those peak requirements, making use of available bandwidth before the peaks. But, maybe that was MPEG4 since I can't find reference to it after a couple of minutes of work in google.

Lastly, the maximum data rate for DVD of about 9.8 mb/s is for everything, and audio and subtitle tracks are part of that, even if not selected.

Yes, all the tracks are interleaved together as one bit-stream (aka an MPEG2 program stream), otherwise the player would have to seek back and forth from the sound track to the video track to the subtitle track and since seeking involves physically moving the laser head assembly it is orders of magnitude too slow to maintain the required data throughput. At least with consumer grade, rather than heavy-duty == expensive, equipment.

[cultshock]

Originally posted by actyper
$23.99 at Shoppers Drug Mart.

Not bad. I've never bought a DVD at Shoppers before. :lol:

[Iron_Giant]

The USA version looks awesome, even HD at times. Since it only cost 15.99 at Target, I think I will be content with what I have.

[Grubert]

US$19.99 at dvdsoon.com.

[actyper]

Originally posted by cultshock
Not bad. I've never bought a DVD at Shoppers before. :lol:

Yeah me either, but I usually just take their flyer and bring it in to FutureShop for a pricematch.

[Damed]

was at futureshop last night and 23.99 is their in store price

[actyper]

Probably in the west coast where dvds are generally a couple dollars cheaper. In toronto its 25.99

[Masamune]

$21 Canadian here at Walmart in my area. That's what... $16 US?

Any takers? They've got like 500 copies literally. LOL.

[Giles]

Amazon.ca listing:

The Passion of the Christ (http://www.amazon.ca/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/dvd/B0002CTSW2/tech-info/701-3085824-6548363)

CDN$ 25.99

[zyzzle]

Are there any Canadian dealers that offer free shipping to the US?

Looking to pick up the Canadian version for under US $20 shipped. Anywhere?

[J.P.V.]

Originally posted by zyzzle
Are there any Canadian dealers that offer free shipping to the US?

Looking to pick up the Canadian version for under US $20 shipped. Anywhere?

Dvdsoon has free shipping to the U.S. It's $25.98 Canadian which is approx. $20 U.S. :)

http://www.dvdsoon.com/show-title-details.xml?uid=114846

[smirnoff]

Woohoo, thank goodness for being canadian. Thats been one or two dvds now, where I've lucked out with a good version.

Good luck y'all!

:P yes, dumb joke.

[eau]

Does the Canadian version have bilinqual cover? :yack:

[Defiant1]

Nope, it's in English. There is no difference between Fullscreen and Widescreen though other than the tiny diagram on the back so be careful!