Very quietly, Randy Johnson has told the Arizona Diamondbacks that he would waive his no-trade clause in order to pitch out his final years for a contender, most preferably the Yankees, the Daily News has learned.
And apparently, it is becoming a similar case with another 40-year-old future Hall of Famer - Roger Clemens - in Houston.
"When Randy got his 4,000th strikeout the other night and still came up a 3-2 loser, it was a very frustrating experience for him, and that's what convinced him that maybe he should look toward going to a contender," a source familiar with Johnson's thinking told the Daily News last night. "It's the same thing with Clemens, who's pitching for a team that's going nowhere. Why do you think these two guys are pitching? Neither of them has anything to prove. They're going to the Hall of Fame. They don't need the money. At this point in their careers, all they want to do is to win, and in the case of both of them, the Yankees are their team of preference because they represent the best chance of going to the World Series for them."
This is the good news for the Yankees. The bad news is neither Arizona general partner Jerry Colangelo nor Astros owner Drayton McLane has revealed a willingness to trade his marquee pitcher, and neither of them has any great affection for George Steinbrenner.
Perhaps further thwarting the Yankees' efforts to land either Johnson or Clemens is the fact that other potential big-market suitors - the Angels, Cubs and Dodgers - have considerably more quality prospects for trade purposes than the Yankees do.
Johnson, who is 10-6 with a 2.90 ERA, is owed another $24million for the remainder of this year and next, which is one advantage for the Yankees, who have unlimited financial resources when it comes to these sorts of trading-deadline deals.
According to a report in the Providence Journal quoting unnamed sources, Johnson has said that he would be willing to go to an East Coast team, but that the Yankees would be far more preferable to him than the Red Sox. The quiet, introverted Johnson and outspoken Red Sox righthander Curt Schilling were never especially close during their time together as the twin aces of the Diamondbacks rotation that was largely responsible for beating the Yankees in the 2001 World Series.
"There's been a lot of speculation that Randy wouldn't want to leave his home and pitch for an East Coast team that trains in Florida (in the spring)," another source told The News last night. "That's not true. At this point, his sole purpose for pitching is to be with a team with a chance to win. And even though the Diamondbacks are his home, they can't provide that."
The Yankees, who are already under scrutiny from commissioner Bud Selig over potential tampering charges regarding Johnson after Steinbrenner talked openly about him last week, were seemingly caught off-guard by this latest development.
"This is the first we've heard of anything like this," a high-ranking Yankee official said. "We don't know anything about it."
Both Johnson and Clemens thought they were going to happily end their careers pitching at home. But both the Diamondbacks and Astros have become non-contenders, even before the All-Star break. Johnson's Diamondbacks are in last place in the NL West, while Clemens' Astros are fifth in the Central, even after their much-ballyhooed acquisition of superstar center fielder Carlos Beltran last month.
The Yankees have made no secret of their interest in Johnson. Their recent rotation woes would indicate their need to acquire a quality frontline starter, and Clemens - who is likely to start the All-Star Game - would certainly fit that bill as well. Furthermore, his decision to unretire and pitch for his hometown Astros, along with fellow ex-Yankee Andy Pettitte, did not cause any ill will with Steinbrenner.
One potential factor in the Yankees' favor is the fact that the Diamondbacks, who are strapped with considerable financial problems from long-term contracts, need to trade Johnson despite Colangelo's statements to the contrary.
chrisih8u
07-09-04, 03:15 AM
I realize that these are only rumors, but I felt it deserved its own thread because there has been alot of talk about Randy Johnson being traded, wether Deftones wants to admit it or not. :p
Aphex Twin
07-09-04, 03:22 AM
Who exactly do the Yankees have to offer for these foggies?
chrisih8u
07-09-04, 03:31 AM
Originally posted by Aphex Twin
Who exactly do the Yankees have to offer for these foggies?
$$$
chrisih8u
07-09-04, 04:07 AM
Interesting tidbit from today's Boston Globe
And yesterday, Major League Baseball fielded a request -- relayed indirectly from Shonda Schilling, Curt's wife -- that her seats for Tuesday's All-Star Game be placed next to Lisa Johnson, Randy's wife.
A neighborly thing, to be sure, but also a convenient opportunity for Mrs. Schilling to bend Mrs. Johnson's ear about the virtues of their husbands being reunited in Boston for a shot at a World Series in the Fens. Even the prospects of such a conversation would invite a lingering look -- and rampant speculation -- from the Fox TV people, one reason folks in Arizona probably wouldn't take kindly to such a seating arrangement.
Word last night was that the MLB folks had yet to make up their minds about whether to accede to Shonda's request. Historically, one team official said yesterday, tickets are divvied up by league, with the friends and family of the American League stars sitting separately from their counterparts in the National League. It remains to be seen whether they make an exception for Shonda Schilling, even if in just a few short months she has established herself as the First Lady of Red Sox baseball, nearly as omnipresent as her husband, who embodies the term "pitchman" in every sense of the word.
chrisih8u
07-09-04, 07:11 AM
Heres another article. This is from the Providence Journal, which is usually reliable.
BOSTON -- Despite widespread speculation that Arizona Diamondbacks pitcher Randy Johnson would refuse to waive his no-trade clause and accept a deal to an East Coast-based team, several baseball sources familiar with Johnson's thinking say the All-Star's "clear preference" is to be dealt to the New York Yankees.
In recent weeks, Johnson has given no public indication that he wishes to be traded by the Diamondbacks, for whom he's pitched since 1999, winning four Cy Young Awards and one world championship. Johnson has both "10-5 rights" -- 10 years in the big leagues, the last five with the same team -- and a no-trade clause in his contract which give him veto power over any trade.
But privately, Johnson has grown increasingly frustrated
with the direction of the ballclub. Going into last night's action, the Diamondbacks had lost 17 of their last 21 games, owned the second-worst record in baseball at 30-55 and occupied the basement of the National League West. A franchise-record 11-game losing streak helped contribute to the firing of manager Bob Brenly last week.
Johnson and Curt Schilling combined to pitch the Diamondbacks to a World Series title in 2001, but Johnson has told some that he doesn't relish the prospect of finishing his career playing for a non-contender.
The Yankees, who have been to the World Series every year except one since 1998, offer Johnson the best chance at another championship.
The Yankees' possible acquisition of Johnson would be a potentially crippling blow to the Red Sox, who entered last night six games in back of New York in the A.L. East. The Red Sox, seeking to bolster their own rotation and keep Johnson out of New York, have called the Diamondbacks to express their interest in the left-hander, who recently passed the 4,000 strikeout plateau. They were told there are no current plans to move Johnson.
Also, Johnson believes that the Yankees' status as perennial contenders would help him to reach the 300-victory level. Johnson is currently at 240 career wins.
Such a goal would require Johnson to pitch past next season, when his current contract expires. It may be that Johnson, like Schilling, will insist on a contract extension as a condition to approving a trade.
Johnson will be 42 when the 2005 season and his current contract are over, and few teams other than the Yankees might be willing to chance signing a pitcher of the advanced age to what undoubtedly would be a lucrative extension.
"They're probably the only ones who would do that," one major league executive said of the Yankees.
As it is, Johnson's addition to the Yankees roster this season would push their payroll close to $200 million. As part of a two-year extension negotiated with the Diamondbacks before the 2003 season, Johnson stands to earn $16 million this season and next, with some $6 million annually deferred.
The Diamondbacks are reluctant to move Johnson, who remains an icon in Phoenix and helps swell attendance at Bank One Ballpark. It's believed, however, that they would grant Johnson's wish to be dealt if he asked.
Johnson's willingness to accept a trade to the Yankees does not guarantee the deal will take place. The Yankees will first have to satisfy the Diamondbacks with a package of young players in return. New York's minor league system is thin, particularly at the upper levels, and the Diamondbacks would insist upon players who are close to contributing in the big leagues.
It had been widely assumed that Johnson would only accept a trade to the Anaheim Angels. Johnson attended the Univesity of Southern California and owns a home in Newport Beach, Calif., some 15 miles from Angel Stadium.
Playing for the Angels would also give Johnson the ability to be close to home for spring training since the Angels also train in Arizona. A trade to the Yankees would require him to spend six weeks in Florida.
The Angels also have a far better stock of prospects to offer the Angels, including highly-regarded catcher Jeff Mathis and third baseman Dallas McPherson.
But despite the proximity of Anaheim and his southern California roots, Johnson is said to be skeptical of the Angels' ability to win another title and favors joining a more talented and playoff-tested roster in New York where he would be viewed as the final piece to the Yankees' puzzle, and not a franchise savior.
Schilling, Johnson's one-time teammate, had also expressed an interest in going to New York. But the Yankees were unable to satisfy the Diamondbacks' demands and Schilling landed with the Red Sox, the beneficiary of a two-year contract extension.
Tommy_Harn
07-09-04, 07:13 AM
Originally posted by chrisih8u
$$$
But you can't trade a star player for money, according to Selig. When the A-Rod deal went through, he made a point to say that he only let the trade go through because the Rangers were getting something of value in return.
Don't these players hate the Yankees as much as we do? Why wouldn't they say "Screw that, send me to a team that can beat these chumps!"
The Clemens deal makes no sense at all. He left NY and signed with Houston of his own free will, just six months ago. Why would he go back now?
chrisih8u
07-09-04, 07:20 AM
Originally posted by Tommy_Harn
But you can't trade a star player for money, according to Selig. When the A-Rod deal went through, he made a point to say that he only let the trade go through because the Rangers were getting something of value in return.
Don't these players hate the Yankees as much as we do? Why wouldn't they say "Screw that, send me to a team that can beat these chumps!"
The Clemens deal makes no sense at all. He left NY and signed with Houston of his own free will, just six months ago. Why would he go back now?
Yes, the Diamondbacks would get "value", but it would be mostly a money situation. The Yankees can pick up bad contracts and give money, in addition to giving prospects. If Randy Johnson wants to go to NY, then he's going to NY.
From the 1st article, it appears that Clemens wants to win another championship.
Tommy_Harn
07-09-04, 07:23 AM
Originally posted by chrisih8u
Yes, the Diamondbacks would get "value", but it would be mostly a money situation. Not literally, but the Yankees can pick up bad contracts and give money, in addition to giving prospects. If Randy Johnson wants to go to NY, then he's going to NY.
So Colangelo, a multi-multi-millionaire gets cash back for his star player? I hope that's not what Selig meant by "equal value."
If this happens, and the Spank-mees don't have to give up anybody from their already depleted prospect pool, I'll be really pissed.
chrisih8u
07-09-04, 07:30 AM
Originally posted by Tommy_Harn
So Colangelo, a multi-multi-millionaire gets cash back for his star player? I hope that's not what Selig meant by "equal value."
If this happens, and the Spank-mees don't have to give up anybody from their already depleted prospect pool, I'll be really pissed.
It doesnt have to be "equal value". Trading deadline deals are never equal. All the Yankees have to do is convince Randy Johnson to play in NY and give him some sort of extension, which wont be a problem. Then the Yankees would give up 1 or 2 prospects (including Navorro probably) and some cash. Im not sure if Arizona has shitty contracts they need to dump, but that could get thrown in, too. So the deal would look like this:
Yankees get Randy Johnson and possible some overpaid shitty guy.
Arizona gets Navarro, another prospect, and cash.
Quake1028
07-09-04, 08:09 AM
Dpes everyone agree that RJ in a Yankee uniform = death for the Red Sox? RJ, Vazquez, Mussina, Brown, Lieber/Contreras/El Duque :drool:.
AndyCapps
07-09-04, 08:24 AM
Originally posted by Aphex Twin
Who exactly do the Yankees have to offer for the two best pitchers in the NL?
Fixed.
I agree with what others have said. In this situation, why give the Yankees what they want? If you're going to trade them, trade them to a team that actually has prospects that might help you in the future. If the Astros trade Clemens back to the Yankees, I hope they burn in hell.
Quake1028
07-09-04, 08:33 AM
For one, the DBacks cannot trade Johnson where he does not want to go.
chrisih8u
07-09-04, 09:03 AM
The Randy Johnson talks have been big news around here for the last couple of days, but the Clemens news is a bit surprising. (If its even true)
It would be great to see Clemens come back to Boston to help win a World Series.
Mordred
07-09-04, 09:15 AM
Originally posted by Tommy_Harn
The Clemens deal makes no sense at all. He left NY and signed with Houston of his own free will, just six months ago. Why would he go back now? This just sounds like silly speculation to me. Doesn't make any sense at all. He retires... goes to Houston to be at home most of the week and play with his friend Petitte, then desserts everybody to go back to NY? Doesn't seem likely.
chrisih8u
07-09-04, 09:23 AM
And there are also plenty of reasons Johnson wont be going to NY.
He is a big draw for Arizona. The prospects that they would receive wont do anything to bring attendance up.
Colangelo may still hate Steinbrenner and wont deal with him.
Randy Johnson wouldnt trust Jeter and A-Rod in the shower.
Arizona feels they will be able to compete next year and need Johnson on their team.
Bushdog
07-09-04, 09:28 AM
Originally posted by Tommy_Harn
...
Don't these players hate the Yankees as much as we do? Why wouldn't they say "Screw that, send me to a team that can beat these chumps!"
Why would they hate the Yankees? What makes you hate them? Seriously answer and avoid the childish 'they're evil' response. I think when you spell out what you hate it will be come clear why players generally love the Yankees.
The Clemens deal makes no sense at all. He left NY and signed with Houston of his own free will, just six months ago. Why would he go back now? He also was retired for godd, earlier on. I know it pisses you off, but Clemens left the Yankees because he was done with baseball yet had a great relationship with them. Houston, his hometown team, made an offer which he couldn't refuse. He came back and got up in the whole hometown thing. Now he's on a team that's a loser and he's got half a season to go. Sounds like he'd like to spend half a season with a team he has an excellent relationship with which also is leading the run to the World Series.
nickdawgy
07-09-04, 09:50 AM
The Angels had better not give up some good young prospects for RJ's old ass. What good is a couple years of his services when you have to give up the future 3B in Dallas MacPherson?
nickdawgy
07-09-04, 09:55 AM
Originally posted by chrisih8u
The Yankees, who have been to the World Series every year except one since 1998, offer Johnson the best chance at another championship.
Not understanding this...the Yankees didn't make the series in 1997 (Cleveland) and 2002 (Anaheim).
chrisih8u
07-09-04, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by nickdawgy
Not understanding this...the Yankees didn't make the series in 1997 (Cleveland) and 2002 (Anaheim).
Since 1998 wouldnt include 1997.
Mordred
07-09-04, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by Bushdog
He also was retired for godd, earlier on. I know it pisses you off, but Clemens left the Yankees because he was done with baseball yet had a great relationship with them. Houston, his hometown team, made an offer which he couldn't refuse. He came back and got up in the whole hometown thing. Now he's on a team that's a loser and he's got half a season to go. Sounds like he'd like to spend half a season with a team he has an excellent relationship with which also is leading the run to the World Series. :lol: It doesn't piss me off, it makes me laugh. I just think it's someone who needs something to talk about passing it off as a "rumor". You think there's a reason there's nothing else in this thread from a news source about Clemens going back to the Yankees? Possibly because there's no fire under the initial smoke.
Tommy_Harn
07-09-04, 10:39 AM
Originally posted by Bushdog
Why would they hate the Yankees? What makes you hate them? Seriously answer and avoid the childish 'they're evil' response. I think when you spell out what you hate it will be come clear why players generally love the Yankees.
He also was retired for godd, earlier on. I know it pisses you off, but Clemens left the Yankees because he was done with baseball yet had a great relationship with them. Houston, his hometown team, made an offer which he couldn't refuse. He came back and got up in the whole hometown thing. Now he's on a team that's a loser and he's got half a season to go. Sounds like he'd like to spend half a season with a team he has an excellent relationship with which also is leading the run to the World Series.
Obviously, the Yankees offer players a chance to make more money than any other team. But if its possible, lets take money out of the equation for a moment. Say you're on the A's, and you play the Yankees three years in a row during the playoffs. Its bad enough that you lose to them each year. To add to that, every year, they show up with one or two new high priced stars. Thus, your job of beating them becomes even more difficult. Not to mention them swooping in and grabbing your MVP first baseman.
Now, imagine you're on the Reds. Its mid-July, and you've just played yourself out of the playoff hunt. The Yankees, always in the market to improve (yet many times having little in actual personel to offer in return), take your best infielder. Your team is worse off than it was before. While it is really your team's owner that is at fault, why would you aspire to play for the front-runners? Why wouldn't you rather go to another contender, and try and knock them out?
As far as Clemens goes, I'm not pissed off at all. I'm just saying it doesn't make sense, and it doesn't. Why go to Houston in the first place? He opted for a situation where he was playing for a potential contender, and he could play near his home and family. I'm not saying he should necessarily have to rot on a non-contender. But its not like the Astros haven't made deals to improve their team. And why is it that these days, nine games is all of a sudden an insurmountable defecit on July 8th?
RoyalTea
07-09-04, 10:47 AM
Originally posted by chrisih8u
Randy Johnson wouldnt trust Jeter and A-Rod in the shower. rotfl
never heard anything like this before.
must take a comedic mastermind to imply that derek jeter and alex rodriguez are in love with each other.
OMG!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!
wildcatlh
07-09-04, 10:47 AM
Of course, we're basing this all off speculation from a NYC paper (and a piss-poor one at that). I'll wait til some national journalists say anything before I believeit.
Especially Clemens. Hadn't heard that outside of this and I don't buy it for a second.
Bushdog
07-09-04, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by Mordred
:lol: It doesn't piss me off, it makes me laugh. I just think it's someone who needs something to talk about passing it off as a "rumor". You think there's a reason there's nothing else in this thread from a news source about Clemens going back to the Yankees? Possibly because there's no fire under the initial smoke. Don't doubt you're right. I was just showing that it is easy to tell a story that makes this one seem plausible.
And the pissed off comment was because the OP clearly seethes with hatred for the Yankees. So anyone who likes them probably annoys him. :)
Bushdog
07-09-04, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by Tommy_Harn
Obviously, the Yankees offer players a chance to make more money than any other team. But if its possible, lets take money out of the equation for a moment. I understand the rest of your post, so I'm not dismissing it. I just think the above is impossible to do. People care a lot about making money. The Yankees have been an engine for players' saleries. I've almost never heard a free agent say anything negative about the Yankees. :)
Deftones
07-09-04, 10:54 AM
For the thousandth time, this trade is not happening. Johnson is staying put in Arizona. He'll retire here. He doesn't care as much about winning a ring as he did in the past. He's got everything he's ever needed by playing on the D-backs.
Tommy_Harn
07-09-04, 10:59 AM
Originally posted by Bushdog
I understand the rest of your post, so I'm not dismissing it. I just think the above is impossible to do. People care a lot about making money. The Yankees have been an engine for players' saleries. I've almost never heard a free agent say anything negative about the Yankees. :)
Not to say that your average Free Agent would have something negative to say about the Yankees . . . but if they did, they would be dumb to say anything about it. To get top dollar, it pays to have the Yankees involved to drive up the price.
Mordred
07-09-04, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by Bushdog
And the pissed off comment was because the OP clearly seethes with hatred for the Yankees. So anyone who likes them probably annoys him. :) Just so we're clear, I also seethe with hatred for the Yankees and their stupid pinstripes and winning tradition and all that other bunk. It probably doesn't help that the only 3 times the Texas Rangers made the playoffs they got beat in the first round by the Yankees.
That said... I try and be as objective as I can :)
Mordred
raven56706
07-09-04, 11:27 AM
Dont be jealous....and that statement is irrelevant because the Yankees havent won a title since 3 years ago..... so stop crying because your teams drop the ball....
its not like the yankees are invincible
sn9ke_eyes
07-09-04, 11:30 AM
I call bs on the Clemens thing as well. Why would the Astros trade him ? Even if their team underachieves, he's a bigtime ticket draw.
As for RJ to the angels, is that really a franchise in need of a "saviour" as the author said ? They just won the world series in '02 and still have a salty team. Poor choice of terms IMO.
raven56706
07-09-04, 11:48 AM
imo...... we dont need them..... we have the best record in baseball and we still have orlando hernandez in the minors and we have gotten by with the pitchers we have...
adding the other pitchers will just solidify the team to greatness
DaveNinja
07-09-04, 12:12 PM
All the old good players who want a ring should go to the A's. Since the A's have 'almost' made it the last 3 or 4 years with hardly any 'star power' the added 'old but good' players could take them to the top. If they got Clemens and Johnson their rotation would be killer, Mulder, Hudson and 5th man being Zito or Redman. They'd just need Craig Counsell for the clutch hitting since Chavez and Durazo always choke. Chance of this happening = zero.
wabio
07-09-04, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by raven56706
imo...... we dont need them..... we have the best record in baseball and we still have orlando hernandez in the minors and we have gotten by with the pitchers we have...
adding the other pitchers will just solidify the team to greatness
The return of Steve Karsay will make a bigger impact than El Duque IMO.
wabio
07-09-04, 12:35 PM
http://img50.exs.cx/img50/551/yankees.jpg
C'mon RJ! That will make it 2 out of 5! :thumbsup: :D
Copenhagen
07-09-04, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by wabio
The return of Steve Karsay will make a bigger impact than El Duque IMO.
I would agree with that.
El Scorcho
07-09-04, 01:32 PM
Yankees = Lakers
Tommy_Harn
07-09-04, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by El Scorcho
Yankees = Lakers
Yup. Neither can beat Detroit.
twikoff
07-09-04, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by Tommy_Harn
Yup. Neither can beat Detroit.
:lol: rotfl
Bushdog
07-09-04, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by Tommy_Harn
Yup. Neither can beat Detroit. What team are you a fan of?
Tommy_Harn
07-09-04, 01:51 PM
The New York Mets, who swept the Tigers last month.
BTW, it was a joke. Don't bite my head off.
kantonburg
07-09-04, 01:54 PM
There is no way Clemens is going to the Yankees. The ONLY reason he's playing is the fact he can be close to his family. For gods sake he doesn't even practice at the ballpark on his days off. It's a stipulation in his contract. Besides I'm sure there is a no trade clause. He would retire before he was traded anywhere.
El Scorcho
07-09-04, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by Tommy_Harn
The New York Mets, who swept the Tigers last month.
BTW, it was a joke. Don't bite my head off.
It's easy for Yankee fans and their unlimited payroll to sit on their perch and snap at people who make jokes at the Yankees expense.
;)
Bushdog
07-09-04, 02:36 PM
Hey, I was asking a question, not snapping. :p
I want to know what digs to get in.
El Scorcho, your constant Yankees jokes coupled with this comment does make one wonder if your parent's house is 100% glass. ;)
Aphex Twin
07-09-04, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by Bushdog
El Scorcho, your constant Yankees jokes coupled with this comment does make one wonder if your parent's house is 100% glass. ;)
This is true. I have watched many times with extraordinary penial excitement as El Scorcho has changed.
El Scorcho
07-09-04, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by Bushdog
Hey, I was asking a question, not snapping. :p
I want to know what digs to get in.
El Scorcho, your constant Yankees jokes coupled with this comment does make one wonder if your parent's house is 100% glass. ;)
apples to oranges, buddy!
I can make jokes at the yankees expense all day because my two teams are peons compared to the Yankees' payroll. Meanwhile your team is in its own stratosphere.
Plus your starting shortstop is a pole chugger.
Bushdog
07-09-04, 02:52 PM
Oh come now. So you have a right to make jokes because the Yankees pay with monopoly money? While I agree they do, I don't think it makes jokes any more right or wrong.
What if I claim that I have a right to make jokes about all other teams because the Yankees are such a focus of abject hatred and derision by so many people. It is a fact that they are subject to hatred and derision, but the joke rulebook doesn't say that is a reason I have a right and others don't. :p
El Scorcho
07-09-04, 02:53 PM
If you claimed that, I'd call you a moran. :)
MJKTool
07-09-04, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by El Scorcho
Yankees = Lakers
not even close
dgmayor
07-09-04, 03:29 PM
Originally posted by El Scorcho
Plus your starting shortstop is a pole chugger.
Not that there's anything wrong with that! :lol:
wabio
07-09-04, 03:32 PM
Originally posted by MJKTool
not even close
Exactly. The Lakers got their players for free. -ohbfrank-
MJKTool
07-09-04, 03:36 PM
One of them anyway. If the Lakers had unlimited funds to dick with like the Yankees then I could see a parallel.
Mad Dawg
07-09-04, 10:17 PM
FYI, Gerry Hunsicker said today that the Astros would have to be far, far out of the Wild Card race (which they are still in) to even begin to consider trading away Beltran (and Clemens). The Astros are not a very good team, but I would expect that they will not be 10 games out of the Wild Card by the trade deadline, and if so, Beltran will go before Clemens. I think everyone can focus on the Yankees attempting to get Johnson for the only two prospects of value that they have left, and not a scenario that has Clemens leaving this season.
Mad Dawg
07-09-04, 10:46 PM
Here is a Jayson Stark article that makes the Clemens disucssion seem far too premature, and very unlikely:
Cancel that Carlos Beltran Rumorfest II. And while we're at it, can we pull the plug now on those rumblings about Roger Clemens heading back to the Yankees?
Roger Clemens back to AL East this season? The Astros say the Rocket will stay in Houston.
For the Astros to fire Beltran back onto the market, or even to contemplate trading Clemens, they would have to announce to the world -- and their massive ticket-buying public -- that they're blowing up the season.
And for that to happen, says GM Gerry Hunsicker, "things would really have to get desperate."
Granted, if you just peruse those NL Central standings, things might look desperate. But look again. True, the Astros were 9½ games out in the division heading into Thursday. But there's this modern contraption called the wild card to fall back on. And they were just 3½ games back in that nine-team free-for-all.
So unless their always-unpredictable owner, Drayton McLane, wakes up one morning and decides to unload, Hunsicker is inclined to hang onto his stars and play it out.
"We've put so much into this year," the GM says, "that trading guys like that only makes sense if A) we think we're out of the wild card, and B) we can get something back that makes sense."
But despite the Beltran rumor frenzy before the Royals traded him, K.C. GM Allard Baird didn't appear too enthused about anything he was offered other than the deal he eventually made. So why would a better offer show up on Houston's doorstep, even if the Astros did decide to dangle Beltran?
And when it comes to Clemens, the No. 1 local icon in the Houston metropolitan area, ask yourself this: The Astros are averaging nearly 40,000 customers a game when Clemens pitches -- vs. just over 37,000 when anyone else pitches. So how nuts would they be to trade him -- for anything or anybody?
"Roger has been such a story, such a draw," Hunsicker says, "that just from an attendance standpoint, I don't know how you could make a case for trading him."
So if you study the big picture at all, you should understand why Hunsicker says this Beltran-Clemens talk is "absurd." After all, the Astros based many of their hopes for this year on assumptions they might have the best rotation in baseball. And they've been able to run that rotation out there together for only a half-dozen turns all season. So they'd love to see what might happen if they got that whole group healthy.
And their list of eight prospective free agents includes Clemens, Beltran, Craig Biggio and Jeff Kent. So how can the Astros not go out of their way to give this team a full shot in what almost certainly will be its last roundup in this form?
"This group deserves the opportunity to win," Hunsicker says. "And our intention is to give them that opportunity."
The truth is, Beltran aside, trading Clemens would cost them more than keeping him. Take it from someone who has see the sports fans of Houston operate. Piss them off, and they don't buy tickets. And they will hold one hell of a grudge. Given the fact that Clemens draws unbelievably, the Astros would be idiots as they would not only lose ticket revenues from this season, but next as well. Because, while Clemens probably won't be back next year, the ill-will over the team having traded him would stick around for a while.
ctyankee
07-09-04, 11:56 PM
And when it comes to Clemens, the No. 1 local icon in the Houston metropolitan area, ask yourself this: The Astros are averaging nearly 40,000 customers a game when Clemens pitches -- vs. just over 37,000 when anyone else pitches. So how nuts would they be to trade him -- for anything or anybody?
At home, Clemens is only drawing a little less than 3,000 customers than when he's not pitching? That's surprising ...
LurkerDan
07-10-04, 12:24 AM
Originally posted by ctyankee
At home, Clemens is only drawing a little less than 3,000 customers than when he's not pitching? That's surprising ... Only? 3000 extra seats, at even $10 per, means an extra gross of $30k/game. 15 starts at home and that's an extra $450K in ticket revenue alone (not counting extra season tix sold because of him). Almost 10% extra? That doesn't sound like an "only".
El Scorcho
07-10-04, 12:36 AM
Don't forget concessions, merchandise, and parking fees that are paid by those 3,000 extra fans!
wabio
07-10-04, 12:38 AM
Apparently Gonzo and the Unit got into a scuffle in the clubhouse after the bases loaded implosion from Gonzos dropped ball. :eek:
wabio
07-10-04, 12:44 AM
Strong rumors now that RJ may end up in Anaheim for Kotchman and some other player.
fumanstan
07-10-04, 01:32 AM
I want to see RJ get traded just so Deftones eats a lil crow :)
Deftones
07-10-04, 04:01 AM
Originally posted by wabio
Apparently Gonzo and the Unit got into a scuffle in the clubhouse after the bases loaded implosion from Gonzos dropped ball. :eek:
Like that's a fair fight. Gonzo's got a ****ing girly arm.
Originally posted by fumanstan
I want to see RJ get traded just so Deftones eats a lil crow :)
Highly unlikely. Here's the main reason why. RJ is an icon here in Phoenix. Back in the 90's Charles Barkley was a freaking god here in Phoenix. He could do no wrong. Then the team traded him away. Attendance fell sharply and hasn't even come close to regaining the fans that were lost due to that trade. Only now with some young guys like Amare and Marion are the Suns recapturing their fan base.
Colangelo is a smart guy. He sees that it will happen with the D-backs if they trade RJ. They can't afford to do that.
chrisih8u
07-10-04, 04:27 AM
Originally posted by Deftones, Esq
Highly unlikely. Here's the main reason why. RJ is an icon here in Phoenix. Back in the 90's Charles Barkley was a freaking god here in Phoenix. He could do no wrong. Then the team traded him away. Attendance fell sharply and hasn't even come close to regaining the fans that were lost due to that trade. Only now with some young guys like Amare and Marion are the Suns recapturing their fan base.
Colangelo is a smart guy. He sees that it will happen with the D-backs if they trade RJ. They can't afford to do that.
So whats the media saying over there? In Boston and NY, it appears that the Dbacks are going to listen to offers. The latest I've heard is that Johnson hasnt been approached by a trade offer yet, but Colangelo is going to try to move him. Is anone in the Arizona media saying different? Any reports that its all bunk?
Deftones
07-10-04, 10:15 AM
Originally posted by chrisih8u
So whats the media saying over there? In Boston and NY, it appears that the Dbacks are going to listen to offers. The latest I've heard is that Johnson hasnt been approached by a trade offer yet, but Colangelo is going to try to move him. Is anone in the Arizona media saying different? Any reports that its all bunk?
Much of what I've heard is that Johnson hasn't been approached, and won't be. Like I said, he's an icon here. If they trade RJ away, they will lose far more revenue than if they keep him.
I've heard all the rumors that everyone is posting here, but it's all pure speculation at this point.
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