Free agency began at midnight.

Biggest news so far is that the Suns are offering Kobe $100 million+ over 6 years.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1832381

They should up the offer to $100M/6 yr + criminal immunity

As long as he doesn't go to Chicago or San Antonio, I don't care where he ends up.

Bulls don't have the cap room for him so you don't have to worry about that.

All this money waived at Kobe and his trial hasnt even started yet. I guess everyone assumes he's innocent or are having faith that famous people dont goto jail.

Originally posted by MrX
Bulls don't have the cap room for him so you don't have to worry about that. I really wasn't too worried about Paxson going after him, I just wanted to say that. :)

Originally posted by MJKTool
All this money waived at Kobe and his trial hasnt even started yet. I guess everyone assumes he's innocent or are having faith that famous people dont goto jail.

Its not that famous people don't go to jail, its that African-American famous people don't go to jail.

I'm sure the Suns can add something to the contract that if Kobe goes to jail the Suns don't get screwed.

Originally posted by PopcornTreeCt
Its not that famous people don't go to jail, its that African-American famous people don't go to jail.

I'm sure the Suns can add something to the contract that if Kobe goes to jail the Suns don't get screwed.

As far as I had heard earlier in the season... standard player contract. If Kobe goes to jail the contract is voided and he's off the cap.

Now, the fact that they get screwed because they probably won't be able to sign a replacement is another fact entirely. But they won't get screwed cap-wise.

Originally posted by WildcatLH
As far as I had heard earlier in the season... standard player contract. If Kobe goes to jail the contract is voided and he's off the cap.

Now, the fact that they get screwed because they probably won't be able to sign a replacement is another fact entirely. But they won't get screwed cap-wise.

I heard Chad Ford say the same thing this morning, the only risk to the franchise is (1) being known as the team that signed a rapist and (2) missing out on the other FAs.

ESPN.com is reporting that the Suns have reached a verbal comittment w/Steve Nash (5 years for $65 million). They are also saying that this has pretty much taken them out of the Kobe sweepstakes.

Suns verbally agree to deal w/Nash (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1833028)

Also ESPN.com is reporting that VC is asking to be traded from the Raptors, although it looks like they are not honoring his request for the time being.

VC wants out (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1832996)

Sonics shopping Ray Allen (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1833036)

They're also reporting that the Sonics are calling teams for offers for Ray Allen.

Originally posted by nchhabra


VC wants out (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1832996)

damn
vince sure does alot of whining
between vince and kobe.. there is going to be ALOT of whining and crying on the FA market this offseason.. some teams are going to bring these cancers aboard :down:


<small>hey vince! hey kobe! come to altanta!!!</small>

I don't think Kobe will be whining or crying about anything this offseason :)

Originally posted by twikoff
damn
vince sure does alot of whining
between vince and kobe.. there is going to be ALOT of whining and crying on the FA market this offseason.. some teams are going to bring these cancers aboard :down:


<small>hey vince! hey kobe! come to altanta!!!</small>

The main thing is that VC still has 3 years left on his contract. And he can pretty much shut up, he can whine when he plays a full season.

The Cavs also made Carlos Boozer a restricted free agent by not picking up his option. Not very big news though.

Originally posted by nchhabra
Also ESPN.com is reporting that VC is asking to be traded from the Raptors, although it looks like they are not honoring his request for the time being.

VC wants out (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1832996)

Now what's RaptorsFan gonna do? :eek:

Originally posted by fumanstan
I don't think Kobe will be whining or crying about anything this offseason :)

Perhaps after the trial?

Originally posted by devilshalo
Now what's RaptorsFan gonna do? :eek: [Raptors Fan] CHRIS BOSH WILL LEAD THE WAY, I STILL LOVE VC HE'S SO GOOD. WHAT A HUNK OF A MAN [/Raptors Fan]

Originally posted by devilshalo
Now what's RaptorsFan gonna do? :eek:

Find someone else's jock to ride?

Marquis Daniels just re-upped with the Mavs.

Originally posted by devilshalo
Now what's RaptorsFan gonna do? :eek:


Goto Nelly concert's to see Vince perform? :)

Originally posted by devilshalo
Now what's RaptorsFan gonna do? :eek:

Actually I'm going to take the high road and say that ESPN is full of shit. :)

Originally posted by cdollaz
Find someone else's jock to ride?

Nice, btw where is T-Mac now????? And you know I called that 2 years ago.

Originally posted by RaptorsFan
Nice, btw where is T-Mac now????? And you know I called that 2 years ago.

I do not know what the hell you are talking about or what it has to do with this thread.

Originally posted by cdollaz
I do not know what the hell you are talking about or what it has to do with this thread.

Long story (Might not be you after all). But I will be on "his jock" until I hear the words come right from VC, not from a "source" on ESPN.

Back on topic, hopefully we'll be getting a PG this summer. Talk is that Troy Hudson is coming this way. And if that doesnt work we'll try and get Skip back from Miami (why we let him go I'll never know).

I remember Rapsfan saying TMac would leave the Magic the same way he left the Rapts. Seemed like sour grapes at the time but...

Rumors are that Kobe is in Phoenix today and is still interesting in the Suns. They'd have to shed some salary to make it happen, so the rumor is some sort of deal to get rid of Mario and Joe Johnson.

Originally posted by joltaddict
I remember Rapsfan saying TMac would leave the Magic the same way he left the Rapts. Seemed like sour grapes at the time but...

..we got Steve Francis and Cuttino Mobley for him. Unlike the Raptors who got zilch! I'm sure T-Mac won't be on the Rockets more than 3 years either.

Rumor is that the Pistons have offered Okur 6 years and $40 million. That sounds like way too much.

Originally posted by LurkerDan
Rumor is that the Pistons have offered Okur 6 years and $40 million. That sounds like way too much. That's absurd.

They mush think Wallace is going elsewhere

Geez, I wonder what other teams are offering him.

Originally posted by tofu
Geez, I wonder what other teams are offering him.


From Saturday's Detroit Free Press:
A source in Utah said the Jazz plans to visit with Kenyon Martin, a restricted free agent power forward from the New Jersey Nets, and added if the team offered Okur a deal, it would be worth more than the Pistons' offer.

Thats not saying $40 million. The Pistons are offering him their $1.5 exemption.

Memo being offered 6 yrs/40 mil is a little lower than what Denver, Phoenix, Utah, Atlanta, and maybe even San Antonio are planning to offer. The Pistons contract is the mid level exception which would allow them to keep Memo and Rasheed Wallace. With the MLE, you can go roughly 5.5 million over the cap.

It has also ben rumored that the Pistons plan to offer Sheed a 4/5 yr contract worth between 40-50 million dollars. The only other serious possibilities for Sheed are New York and Philly but it seems that he will stay with Detroit.

Lastly, the Pistons are attempting to extend Ben Wallace's contract through 2010. As of now, he has 2 years left on his contract and is considered a bargain at 7.5 million per year.

P.S. Isaiah Thomas is BIG on Jamal Crawford and wants him in a Knicks uniform next year.

Im fairly certain teams have two exemptions a year, a 5.5 and a 1.5. And Philly isnt in the running for Sheed. Philly sports radio would be all over that, believe me.

Originally posted by MrX
They mush think Wallace is going elsewhere That would ****ing rock.

Originally posted by gmal2003

P.S. Isaiah Thomas is BIG on Jamal Crawford and wants him in a Knicks uniform next year.
I have no idea what he is doing with that team. Don't they already have like 8 guards on the roster?

On Philly, they arent so much interested in him as he is in Philly. They are big on Dalembert who plays the same position as Sheed. Most importantly, it seems like Philly is sitting and waiting til next year or later until they decide whats gonna happen with AI. Sheed's interest in them is mainly because its his hometown but they are a longshot to get him.

The Knicks are trying everything in their power to get rid of huge contracts like McDyess and esp. Allan Houston. Crawford will have a break out year wherever hes at so I understand them wanting him despite their shamble of a team. I like Crawford to win most improved player this season.

Originally posted by gmal2003

The Knicks are trying everything in their power to get rid of huge contracts like McDyess and esp. Allan Houston. Crawford will have a break out year wherever hes at so I understand them wanting him despite their shamble of a team. I like Crawford to win most improved player this season.

You do realize that Crawford averaged 17.3 PPG last year. Granted he shot like ass, but its hard to really improve enough to win an award when you're already good.

I don't see how the Knicks have a shot at Crawford though, even if he signs for the exemption with the Knicks, I'd have to think the Bulls would match at that low of a salary

Originally posted by gmal2003
On Philly, they arent so much interested in him as he is in Philly. They are big on Dalembert who plays the same position as Sheed. Most importantly, it seems like Philly is sitting and waiting til next year or later until they decide whats gonna happen with AI. Sheed's interest in them is mainly because its his hometown but they are a longshot to get him.

The Knicks are trying everything in their power to get rid of huge contracts like McDyess and esp. Allan Houston. Crawford will have a break out year wherever hes at so I understand them wanting him despite their shamble of a team. I like Crawford to win most improved player this season. Antonio McDyess hasn't been a Knick for a few months and I believe he is currently a free agent.

The Bulls don't want Crawford. They'd love to do a sign and trade and get something in return, or make someone take a bad contract with him, but they're not going to match a big offer.

If you want a shooting guard who launches 3's, whines all the time, and doesn't play defense then Crawford's your guy.

Looks like Utah and Okur have verbally agreed on a 6 yr/$42-48M contract. Crazy.

http://msn.foxsports.com/story/2560962

My god thats insane.

His numbers will improve w/ an increase in minutes, but he still isn't worth that kind of money - not yet anyway.

What did they give Giricek?

I really don't think Okur is really all that great, but the Jazz have oodles of cash, and supposedly a tough time recruiting players, so I can understand the move. Plus Okur is restricted, so it's inevitable you'd overpay so the Pistons don't wanna match. In those terms, it's not a bad move, although I'd really hope Okur is better than I think he is for the Jazz's sake.

Whew, the Jazz needed another white guy :)

Adonal Foyle got $41.6 over 5 years to stay at Golden State. I guess this means that Dampier is as good as gone. Good riddance, although they overpaid for Foyle. The nice thing is that they have a team option for $10 million in his last year so if he really sucks after his big contract, they can drop him after the 4th year.

I'm biased, but I think Okur is legit. With good minutes he could be in the 15 points/game range. He shoots well from the floor, even shooting 35% from 3, not bad for a guy his size. He's a beast on the offensive glass, and in a rarity for a European player - he actually plays big. Put it this way, I'd pay Memo $6 mill a year way before I gave Foyle a dime. Plus, how can you go wrong with a player the Sports Guy once described as "a player who looks like you'd find him on the bench with a cup of coffee in one hand and a cigarette in the other" ;)

I'll hate to see him leave the Pistons, but you can't knock a guy when he's being offered more money and playing time .

Originally posted by Daryl
I'm biased, but I think Okur is legit. With good minutes he could be in the 15 points/game range. He shoots well from the floor, even shooting 35% from 3, not bad for a guy his size. He's a beast on the offensive glass, and in a rarity for a European player - he actually plays big. Put it this way, I'd pay Memo $6 mill a year way before I gave Foyle a dime. Plus, how can you go wrong with a player the Sports Guy once described as "a player who looks like you'd find him on the bench with a cup of coffee in one hand and a cigarette in the other" ;)

I'll hate to see him leave the Pistons, but you can't knock a guy when he's being offered more money and playing time . Okur is decent, and probably will get better. I do think he'll do the things you say. And he's big. And he is definitely worth WAY WAY WAY more tha Foyle, I can't believe anyone is paying Foyle over $8 million per. That's nuts. But I don't think Okur is worth that either...

Originally posted by tofu
Adonal Foyle got $41.6 over 5 years to stay at Golden State. I guess this means that Dampier is as good as gone. Good riddance, although they overpaid for Foyle. The nice thing is that they have a team option for $10 million in his last year so if he really sucks after his big contract, they can drop him after the 4th year.

I saw this and just had to laugh. I love Foyle's stats from last year: 3.1 points, 3.8 rebounds and 1.0 blocks in 44 games. And at 29 I don't see him getting much better. Poor Warriors fans. On the plus side, I guess it prevents the Wizards from signing him and forming Golden State East (although Dampier is still out there)

Anyone up for a long read. Here's Chad Ford's (ESPN Insider) take on the Foyle/Okur signings and more.

GMs on a spending frenzy

After two years of relative fiscal restraint in free agency, it seems GMs have been given blank checks by their owners this summer.

Two of the top available big men -- Mehmet Okur and Adonal Foyle -- agreed to lucrative deals late Monday night, according to sources. Both players are expected to sign multi-year contracts for in excess of $40 million each, reinforcing what has become a growing theme this summer: GMs gone wild.

Of the five players who appear to have deals in place in advance of the July 14 signing period, all five have agreed to contracts that exceed even the most liberal predictions of a month ago. Steve Nash's five-year, $65 million contract was so steep even Mark Cuban wouldn't match it. When Cuban won't match, you pretty much know you've broken the bank.

Cuban responded by offering Marquis Daniels a six-year, $38 million dollar deal. Daniels, who went undrafted last year, played for the league minimum last season. Marcus Camby, who has a long history of injuries, agreed to a long-term deal believed to be worth $50 million to $60 million. Okur and Foyle, both role players on their teams last year, will get multi-year deals with starting salaries in excess of $6.5 million next season.

Of the five, only Nash averaged more than 10 ppg.

The free spending might not be finished. There's talk the Nuggets are readying an offer for Manu Ginobili with a starting salary in excess of $8 million. Ginobili, too, was a sixth man on his team last season. Erick Dampier is looking at lucrative sign-and-trade options, despite a very checkered history. Mark Blount, who didn't have a pulse until mid-season, is looking for a deal in excess of the mid-level exception, and it appears he might get it.

What in the name of Donald Trump is going on? Has the rest of the NBA caught Mark Cuban fever? What happened to the luxury tax fears that were throttling the market.

"This is absolute craziness," one NBA GM told Insider. "Teams are so desperate for help, so desperate for big men and point guards, that they're almost bidding against themselves."

Okur's big deal

The Pistons' Okur, who had a six-year, $40 million deal on the table from Detroit, agreed to a $50 million offer sheet with the Jazz on Monday evening, according to sources.

Okur is a restricted free agent, meaning Detroit has 15 days to match the offer once it's officially signed after July 14. However, because the Pistons own only his early Bird rights and are over the cap, they cannot exceed the mid-level exception to re-sign him.

The Pistons could get far enough under the cap to match the offer if they renounced their rights to Rasheed Wallace, but team president Joe Dumars has said repeatedly he won't do that. That essentially means the only way Okur will be in a Pistons uniform next year is if Wallace decides over the next few weeks that he doesn't want to re-sign in Detroit.

That isn't likely. Sources insist he is leaning heavily toward re-upping in Detroit. Because the Pistons own Wallace's full Bird Rights, they can exceed the salary cap to re-sign him. The Pistons reportedly are on the verge of offering him a five-year, $50 million deal to stay in Detroit.

Steve 9 million a year for 4 years, with a 5th year with half guaranteed, but he could get the 5th year fully guaranteed by playing enough games and minutes the year before. I was guessing we would end up doing 60 games and 20 minutes per game to get there. I thought it was very fair."

However Phoenix came back with an offer of five years fully guaranteed at an average of $11 million per, with a sixth year partially guaranteed. Phoenix's offer starts Nash at just under $10 million per year, with 10 percent annual raises.

Apparently, that was too much for Cuban.

"About dinner time that night I got a call. Donnie said I had to call Steve. I did. To make a long story short, Steve said he got an incredible offer from the Suns. He wouldn't tell me the exact numbers, but every time I said a number, he said it was more. He said they flew down a whole group of people, including Amare Stoudemire to recruit him. He was calling because he felt like he owed me the opportunity to match it. I was stunned. I told him to give me a little bit of time to think it over and I would call him back. He was fine with that.

"I called Donnie and told him the range of numbers that I had given Steve, and that the offer was higher. I think Donnie was as stunned as I was. Based on the ranges I had thrown out to Steve, this might not have been a max out deal, but it sure sounded like it was close. There was no way I was going to match it. The amounts were higher and the length was longer than I was willing to go for all the reasons I wrote about."

Cuban cites several factors for his decision not to retain Nash, among them age and durability. The feeling was that Nash, 31, would be making so much at the end of his career that his contract would be untradeable. Cuban also noted that Nash had played in a lot of pain the past few years and he was unsure how long he'd hold up. Finally, Cuban devoted a significant amount of space in his blog railing on Bill Duffy, Nash's agent. According to Cuban, they don't have a good relationship, and it sounds as if Cuban believes Duffy was steering Nash away from Dallas.

Duffy laughed at the assertion.

"I work for Nash, not the Mavericks," Duffy told Insider. "My job was pretty basic -- to put Steve in the best possible position, financially. I think had the Mavericks matched Phoenix's offer, Steve would've stayed in Dallas. However, the Suns' offer was significantly higher, and Steve has a history there, too. His mother lives there; he has a high respect for the organization; and he believes that the team they're building will be a real contender. I respect Mark for making a business decision that he felt his company had to make. But how can you criticize Steve for making the same decision?"

Money wasn't the only issue clouding Nash's decision. There were rampant rumors he would be involved in a trade for Shaquille O'Neal. Duffy claims the Mavs never brought up sign-and-trade scenarios, but the disparity in the two teams' offers gave Nash the impression Phoenix thought of him as more than just an asset.

"The Suns' presentation was pretty impressive," Duffy said. "The owner, Steve Kerr, Bryan Colangelo and Amare Stoudemire were all there. They gave him a book with a plan for the team. They told him they wanted him to be the leader of the team. They even asked his advice on other free-agent signings with the rest of the cap space they had."

With Nash gone, Cuban quickly overpaid Daniels to the tune of six years, $38 million. While it's easy to see Cuban's point of view from a business perspective, given his free-spending history, this recent display of fiscal restraint is interesting.

Two summers ago Cuban gave Raef LaFrentz a deal worth $69 million. He also has taken on the bad contracts of players like Antawn Jamison, Antoine Walker and Jerry Stackhouse. Maybe Cuban is finally learning his lesson.

"The problem is not just how much money you have to pay," Cuban wrote. "The bigger problem is that you start chewing up roster spots and you lose the ability to add players. For better or worse, because we 'went for it' in making trades, hoping that the deals could get us to a championship, we have ended up with several players who don't get much playing time with us, yet have contracts that are difficult if not impossible to trade."

Nuggets flirting with Kobe

Manu Ginobili's agent, Herb Rudoy, was expecting to get a big offer from the Denver Nuggets on Monday. Instead, Nuggets GM Kiki Vandeweghe was in L.A. flirting with another free agent shooting guard -- Kobe Bryant.

According to the Rocky Mountain News, Vandeweghe was in Newport Beach on Monday meeting with Bryant and his agent, Rob Pelinka. While the Nuggets have the cash to land Kobe, it's considered a long shot that they actually will. Bryant has been telling teams he prefers to remain in Los Angeles. His legal problems in Colorado's Eagle County also would factor into his decision to decline the Nuggets' overtures.

Assuming talks with Kobe don't lead to anything, expect the Nuggets to consider making a serious offer to Ginobili on Tuesday. According to several league sources, the Nuggets have discussed an offer with Rudoy that would start at a whopping $9 million per year. However, it's also believed that Ginobili's first choice it to remain in San Antonio, a preference he reiterated to the club in an airport visit on Monday afternoon before flying home to Argentina for his wedding.

Rudoy told Insider on Monday he has yet to receive an official offer from any club. He did, however, expect to talk to both the Spurs and Nuggets on Tuesday and was hopeful he'd receive something then. The Jazz likely are out of the hunt for Ginobili after coming to terms with Giricek. So far, the Hawks are the only other team with enough available cap space that has shown interest in Ginobili.

Ginobili is a restricted free agent, giving the Spurs the right to match any offer. The Spurs have room under the cap to do so, but they might be reluctant to commit that type of money to their sixth man.

Around the League

# Kobe's meeting with the Nuggets on Monday apparently will be the first of several recruiting sessions. Bryant also has visits scheduled with the Spurs and Clippers this week. The Lakers suffered a blow Monday when coach Mike Krzyzewski turned down a huge offer to become the team's coach. Coach K and Kobe were close, and many within the organization and around the league felt landing the coach would have made re-signing Kobe a lock. The Lakers now have turned their attention to former Rockets coach Rudy Tomjanovich.

# New Jersey forward Kenyon Martin will visit Denver on Wednesday, Utah on Thursday and Atlanta on Friday as part of his free-agent tour, according to agent Brian Dyke.

# The Sixers have made a multi-year offer to Celtics' free-agent center Mark Blount. However, Blount has yet to agree to any offer, according to agent Mark Bartelstein. The Sixers' offer is believed to be for the team's entire mid-level exception. Blount, who had a great relationship with head coach Jim O'Brien in Boston, also has been talking to the Heat.

# The Knicks want to sign Jamal Crawford, but agent Aaron Goodwin says that after shopping his client around a bit he has determined the only way New York can land him is via a sign-and-trade. The mid-level exception apparently won't cut it. Goodwin said eight teams have expressed interest, including Minnesota, Sacramento, Dallas, Indiana, Denver and Miami. However, only the Nuggets have enough cash to offer Crawford more than the mid-level. The other seven teams would have to work out sign-and-trade deals, as well.

Chad Ford covers the NBA for ESPN Insider.


You all owe me 5 bucks.

These contracts are getting ridiculous? As the article stated, what happened to teams that were trading salaries to avoid the luxary tax?

I predict that Foyle is gonna turn into a Jerome James/Calvin Booth situation that Seattle has (that is overpaying big men that they'll seriously regret down the road).

Okur will be like signing Austin Croshere to that max contract.

Daniels will be like the Chris Childs situation (played good for half a season and then was offered a big contract, then sucked). Or at least similar to a Shandon Anderson type contract.

Nash is the only semi-rational signing but like the article said, if Cuban won't front the money, then you must be overpaying. I'd be wary if I were the Suns cuz Nash sucked when they drafted him, then he became good when he went to Dallas. Now, he's 31 or something like that so he isn't gonna get any better. Therefore, I predict that Phoenix will regret this signing down the road.

Being a Nets fan, we need owners like the ones that Dallas, Phoenix, Utah, etc. has.

I hope the Nuggets don't land Ginobili. He's not worth the money IMO. As for the Daniels guy in Dallas, I think he may turn out to be worth it. He's a budding star in the league, and he's real young too. Better than Ginobili at least.

Oh, thanks to mad Dawg for posting. :).

thanks for the post, Mad Dawg.

I actually think the Foyle re-signing is ok but only because he is actually a pretty decent center when he gets the minutes and when he's not hurt. He's a good shot blocker and he doesn't require shots but he'll make them if he has to. I think he'll actually be a pretty good fantasy center sleeper.

I hope Ginobili stays in SA because I think he's great when he has someone to play off of. In Denver, that's not really going to happen with Melo taking most of the shots.

And Cuban's blog totally makes sense about Nash. It would have been nice to keep him but how many times have teams resigned old guards to contracts worth >$10 million only for it to come back and bite them in the ass.

Originally posted by tofu
thanks for the post, Mad Dawg.

I actually think the Foyle re-signing is ok but only because he is actually a pretty decent center when he gets the minutes and when he's not hurt. He's a good shot blocker and he doesn't require shots but he'll make them if he has to. I think he'll actually be a pretty good fantasy center sleeper.


You do realize Adonal Foyle has played 7 years in the league already with career averages of 4.6 ppg and 5.2 rpg. And a career high of 5.9 ppg. If he was going to ever be fantasy worthy, he likely would have done it long ago

Originally posted by Jericho
You do realize Adonal Foyle has played 7 years in the league already with career averages of 4.6 ppg and 5.2 rpg. And a career high of 5.9 ppg. If he was going to ever be fantasy worthy, he likely would have done it long ago
He's done it in stints whenever people have gone down with injury. Besides, I'm a hopeless Warriors fan. So I gotta dream, right?

Looks like Alston is goin to the Raptors... 6 years, 29 million.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&id=1835443

Man, we're seeing some rather lengthy and expensive contracts for unproven players this offseason.

the smart teams will be the teams that refrain from this madness...

Originally posted by fumanstan
Looks like Alston is goin to the Raptors... 6 years, 29 million.


almost $30 million for Skip To My Lou? WTF?!

Originally posted by LurkerDan
the smart teams will be the teams that refrain from this madness... Looks like lots of teams have cap space and the market is thin.

Thank goodness the Knicks are being limited in the money they can throw away. Though if they trade for Crawford it sounds like they'll have to take an oppressive contract as well. Which sounds pretty dumb.

Originally posted by Daryl
almost $30 million for Skip To My Lou? WTF?!

We needed a PG who can break down the defence off the dribble in the worst way. He's young and 10 points 5 dimes a game isn't that bad. Sure he's not Jason Kidd but he'll fit in very nicely.

Skip, Rose, Vince (?), Bosh, and Araujo isn't a bad starting 5 (If Bosh is the real deal). Of course after Marshall off the bench it's all down hill.

Originally posted by RaptorsFan
We needed a PG who can break down the defence off the dribble in the worst way. He's young and 10 points 5 dimes a game isn't that bad. Sure he's not Jason Kidd but he'll fit in very nicely.

Everything you say is true, but I still have a problem with the length of the contract for an unproven player.

Alston will be 28 when the season starts. And he's getting a six year contract. Alvin Williams will be 30. And he has 4 more years on his contract, at about 6.5 mill per season. In two years, you're paying almost 12 mill to two 30+ year old PGs, and you're still on the hook for both of them for 2 more years.

I guess my problem is that the league is filled with older guys of who are in the 3rd or 4th year of a long-term contract and you look at the amount still owed to them and wonder what the hell the GM who signed them was thinking (for example, the Heat will pay Eddie Jones and Brian Grant a combined $85 mill over the next 3 years). Then again, in most cases, that GM is most likely long gone, so he probably doesn't care.

Originally posted by Bushdog
Looks like lots of teams have cap space and the market is thin.

Thank goodness the Knicks are being limited in the money they can throw away. Though if they trade for Crawford it sounds like they'll have to take an oppressive contract as well. Which sounds pretty dumb. Yeah, the Knicks are limited because of all the crazy contracts Layden doled out. :(

I don't know, I think the market has a fair # of good players, it's just that too many teams have cap space. But the smart ones will refrain from going crazy. They're all gambling too much, only looking at best case scenarios. And I don't really know what scenario the Warriors are looking at with the Foyle signing. :hscratch:

Originally posted by Daryl

Then again, in most cases, that GM is most likely long gone, so he probably doesn't care.

We're still paying Hakeem Olajuwon!!!!!!!! Figure that one out!! Not to mention Lenny Wilkins and Kevin O'neil.

Originally posted by LurkerDan
Yeah, the Knicks are limited because of all the crazy contracts Layden doled out. :(


:hscratch: Isiah brought in Marbury ($14.6 million), Penny ($14.6 million), Tim Thomas ($12.9 million) and re-signed Kurt Thomas ($11.8 million). The Knicks are going to be screwed for a long time. Barely making it into the playoffs in the porous East should not considered an accomplishment by any means.

Originally posted by Fokker's Feint
:hscratch: Isiah brought in Marbury ($14.6 million), Penny ($14.6 million), Tim Thomas ($12.9 million) and re-signed Kurt Thomas ($11.8 million). The Knicks are going to be screwed for a long time. Barely making it into the playoffs in the porous East should not considered an accomplishment by any means.

that's been the mantra for the Knicks forever. They must field a "competitive" team at all costs even if it means that they'll never ever win it all. Overpay for over-the-hill players and thus never be able to field a winning team cuz they're never in a rebuilding phase.

I know what you mean. But I was thinking the other day why does it have to be this way? Obviously there's the media pressure, but isn't possible for ownership to grow a pair and say **** the writers? Let's say you suck it up for a couple of years while you let the bad contracts expire. Sure revenue will be down somewhat but the underlying fan base remains there. As a result, when you finally form a very competitive team, the revenue then skyrockets as the whole city falls back in love with the Knicks again.

Originally posted by Dabaomb
They must field a "competitive" team at all costs even if it means that they'll never ever win it all. Overpay for over-the-hill players and thus never be able to field a winning team cuz they're never in a rebuilding phase.

Remind me to cut and paste your post the next time the New York Rangers are mentioned :)

Originally posted by Fokker's Feint
I know what you mean. But I was thinking the other day why does it have to be this way? Obviously there's the media pressure, but isn't possible for ownership to grow a pair and say **** the writers? Let's say you suck it up for a couple of years while you let the bad contracts expire. Sure revenue will be down somewhat but the underlying fan base remains there. As a result, when you finally form a very competitive team, the revenue then skyrockets as the whole city falls back in love with the Knicks again.

The reason that they can't do it is cuz of $$$. Courtside seats are like $2500 and they need to fill those seats. Their thinking is that if they field a competitive team that they'll be able to fill those seats. The sad part is that it's true.

Actually, this is true for all NYC teams (Knicks, Rangers, Mets, and Yankees). The Yanks can win with this strategy cuz there's no salary cap.

Maybe so. Obviously I don't have access to all the numbers but FWIW you've got to assume that the owners are making rational business decisions for the most part. Maybe the revenue they would give up now wouldn't be made up by a championship team down the road.

However, the question then becomes how soon before the NY fans get tired of all those 7 and 8 seeds in the East and first-round exits from the playoffs? If they can't outlast this and get some cap flexibility before the fans turn on them again, then they will really be in some deep shit.

Originally posted by Fokker's Feint
:hscratch: Isiah brought in Marbury ($14.6 million), Penny ($14.6 million), Tim Thomas ($12.9 million) and re-signed Kurt Thomas ($11.8 million). The Knicks are going to be screwed for a long time. Barely making it into the playoffs in the porous East should not considered an accomplishment by any means. Only Kurt Thomas was signed by Isaiah, and the only reason Isaiah took on those other bloated contracts in trade was because he had many of his own (signed by Layden) to get rid of. I don't like Isaiah one bit, and have little confidence in his ability to build the Knicks, but to blame the Knicks current cap situation on him is ludicrous. The blame, at least for now, falls squarely on Layden.

That is only partially true. I'm not saying Layden is not to blame (he certainly deserves a fair share of responsibility) but the Knicks payroll is now $93 million, well above where it was before Layden got fired.

- EDITED TO ADD: My bad, they are only about $10 million above where they were at the beginning of the season.

Originally posted by Fokker's Feint
That is only partially true. I'm not saying Layden is not to blame (he certainly deserves a fair share of responsibility) but the Knicks payroll is now $93 million, well above where it was before Layden got fired.

- EDITED TO ADD: My bad, they are only about $10 million above where they were at the beginning of the season. As I said before, the only reason Isaiah took on those other bloated contracts in trade was because he had many of his own (signed by Layden) to get rid of. He was trying to improve the team fast within the parameters that Layden had set for him. Now, we can probably both agree that was not a prudent long-term strategy (and it probably isn't one Isaiah is responsible for; presumably the owners brought him in to get the team winning NOW). But for the moment, it is wrong to blame the Knicks current situation on anyone but Layden. A few years down the road, it may be a different story...

Upon further examination, although Isiah didn't add that much extra salary (at least in % terms), he reduced their ST flexibility.

At the beginning of the season their 3 biggest annual contracts were Houston ($15.9 million), McDyess ($13.5 million) and Van Horn ($13.3 million).

Houston's doesn't expire until '06-'07 but McDyess' expired at the end of this season and Van Horn expires after '05-'06. Another key contract that was traded away was Charlie Ward's ($6 million and expired at the end of this season).

Now the Knicks still have Houston, but in place of MyDess, Van Horn and Ward they have added Hardaway (avg. left of $15.2 million; expires in '05-'06) and Tim Thomas (avg. left of $13.4 million; expires in '05-'06). So clearly they are worse off in regard to cap flexibility.

What somewhat makes up for that somewhat is the addition of a very talented player in Marbury, but he is cap nightmare in and of himself. His contract runs through '08-'09 at which time he'll be making $21.9 million. He's good, but IMO he's not that good.

Just wait until 2006, when they will be paying a combined $55 mill to Marbury and 3 players (Houston, Anderson, and K. Thomas) in their mid 30's.

Originally posted by LurkerDan
As I said before, the only reason Isaiah took on those other bloated contracts in trade was because he had many of his own (signed by Layden) to get rid of. He was trying to improve the team fast within the parameters that Layden had set for him. Now, we can probably both agree that was not a prudent long-term strategy (and it probably isn't one Isaiah is responsible for; presumably the owners brought him in to get the team winning NOW). But for the moment, it is wrong to blame the Knicks current situation on anyone but Layden. A few years down the road, it may be a different story...

Point well taken.

While we're at it (and since I noticed you were in CO), what do you think about the deal that the Nuggets are giving Camby?

Originally posted by RaptorsFan
We needed a PG who can break down the defence off the dribble in the worst way. He's young and 10 points 5 dimes a game isn't that bad. Sure he's not Jason Kidd but he'll fit in very nicely.

Skip, Rose, Vince (?), Bosh, and Araujo isn't a bad starting 5 (If Bosh is the real deal). Of course after Marshall off the bench it's all down hill.

I am not convinced about Rose and never will be. He has so much talent, but is not at all a team players. A pattern that I have noticed with him is that every new team he goes to improves in the short term, but in the long run he hurts them. This was true even with the Raptors. When he came over they put together a nice little win streak and then went down hill. I think it is the reason he gets traded so much. People are willing to take him because of his talent, but team after team ends up shipping him elsewhere (Pacers, Bulls, ?Nuggets?) because of his piss poor attitude. I hope the Raptors can find somewhere to ship him.

Originally posted by tofu
Adonal Foyle got $41.6 over 5 years to stay at Golden State. I guess this means that Dampier is as good as gone. Good riddance, although they overpaid for Foyle. The nice thing is that they have a team option for $10 million in his last year so if he really sucks after his big contract, they can drop him after the 4th year.

After looking at some of the other contracts this sounds even more absurd to me. I was reading on ESPN.com that the T-wolves are looking at resiging Troy Hudson for 18-25 million (depending on what incentives he reaches) over 4 years. I don't really follow either team a lot, but it seems like that Hudson would be worth much more than Foyle. Of course Hudson is Cassell's back up for the time being, but Foyle essentially is a back up as well.

Originally posted by nchhabra
I am not convinced about Rose and never will be. He has so much talent, but is not at all a team players. A pattern that I have noticed with him is that every new team he goes to improves in the short term, but in the long run he hurts them. This was true even with the Raptors. When he came over they put together a nice little win streak and then went down hill. I think it is the reason he gets traded so much. People are willing to take him because of his talent, but team after team ends up shipping him elsewhere (Pacers, Bulls, ?Nuggets?) because of his piss poor attitude. I hope the Raptors can find somewhere to ship him. What else would you expect from a Michigan alum?


;)

Originally posted by Fokker's Feint
Point well taken.

While we're at it (and since I noticed you were in CO), what do you think about the deal that the Nuggets are giving Camby? Absurd deal, but probably not as bad as the Warrior's signing of Foyle.

Marcus can be a difference maker, as he proved with the Knicks a few years ago. But he only fits well in a running team, which the Nuggets are for now, and he is obviously seriously brittle. They will be paying him long after he has ceased to be useful. :(

Originally posted by Fokker's Feint
I know what you mean. But I was thinking the other day why does it have to be this way? Obviously there's the media pressure, but isn't possible for ownership to grow a pair and say **** the writers? Let's say you suck it up for a couple of years while you let the bad contracts expire. Sure revenue will be down somewhat but the underlying fan base remains there. As a result, when you finally form a very competitive team, the revenue then skyrockets as the whole city falls back in love with the Knicks again.

I don't think it has to be this way. I mean the team has sucked for the last several years, even with the moves. Hell, they pretty much suck now even if they snuck into the playoffs. Things really can't get worse than they are. And if they actually get some cap room and some high draft picks, they could actually be competitive

Hedo Turkoglu gets 6 years 39 million from the Magic

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1835898

Edit: The Spurs can match it however.

Crap, just when I started looking forward to this season for the Magic, now they do this...

Just when I thought that GMs around the league were starting to learn from their mistakes...

All this money being thrown around makes me think that even Gary Payton could have gotten more then his 5+ mil by staying with the Lakers. Some GM probably would have thrown a 3 year, 7 per contract at him regardless of how old he is and how much he's regressed.

Wow, I'm happy Orlando is going after players I was just hoping they were gonna go after someone bigger like K-Mart or 'Sheed.

Looks like the Suns have offered Quentin Richardson a contract around 50 million. Clippers can match it.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1835962

I'm wondering how long the Clippers are willing to wait for Kobe, as they'd certainly match the offer for Q if they knew Kobe wasn't going to sign.

Originally posted by B.A.
What else would you expect from a Michigan alum?


;)

Sonuva....! Don't nobody say nothing bad about JRose! ;)

Seriously, he's my favorite Michigan (and college) player of all time, but he's been "one of those guys" in the pros. You know the type - puts up good numbers on so-so teams, but you'll never see his team deep in the playoffs.

Originally posted by fumanstan
Looks like the Suns have offered Quentin Richardson a contract around 50 million. Clippers can match it.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1835962

I'm wondering how long the Clippers are willing to wait for Kobe, as they'd certainly match the offer for Q if they knew Kobe wasn't going to sign.
Wow, that would be quite a lineup if Q actually sticks with the Suns. But if they actually do sign him, aren't they going to have to go over the cap to give Stoudemire an extension?

Originally posted by Daryl
Sonuva....! Don't nobody say nothing bad about JRose! ;)

Seriously, he's my favorite Michigan (and college) player of all time, but he's been "one of those guys" in the pros. You know the type - puts up good numbers on so-so teams, but you'll never see his team deep in the playoffs. I was wondering how long it would take for you to see that. :)

Originally posted by tofu
Wow, that would be quite a lineup if Q actually sticks with the Suns. But if they actually do sign him, aren't they going to have to go over the cap to give Stoudemire an extension?

why would they sign QRich? Where are they gonna play him? Cuz either him or Joe Johnson is gonna be a 6th man unless they trade Joe Johnson.

He can't play the 3 either cuz Marion has that spot (well they could trade Marion but he's more of a natural 3 than QRich).

Back to the Knicks:

The local paper says Paxson is trying to play harball with Isiah, figuring these spiraling contracts are going to help him trade Jamal Crawford. Supposedly he's holding out for Crawford, Eddie Robinson, AND Jerome Williams for Kurt Thomas, Dikembe, and Othella Harrington.

If Isiah is stupid enough to do that, and I have no reason to believe he's not, would the Knicks not have an entire roster full of overpaid castoffs?

Originally posted by Dabaomb
why would they sign QRich? Where are they gonna play him? Cuz either him or Joe Johnson is gonna be a 6th man unless they trade Joe Johnson.

He can't play the 3 either cuz Marion has that spot (well they could trade Marion but he's more of a natural 3 than QRich).
They offered him an offer so obviously they must want to sign him. I agree that he it's going to get crowded really quickly but with a PG like Steve Nash, I don't know how well Joe Johnson will do since he's not really off the ball. He needs the ball to do well whereas Qrich can play off/on. Johnson only really started donig well once Marbury was traded. (of course, Stoudemire did too) So to me, that would make Joe Johnson the 6th man or trade bait.

The Celtics signed Mark Blount for 41 million over 6 years-eek-

Originally posted by MrX
The Celtics signed Mark Blount for 41 million over 6 years-eek-

rotfl

I just saw that too.

I know numbers aren't everything, but come on, Mark Blount? Am I to believe there isn't a guy in the NBDL or in Europe who can average 3 pts and do some dirty work for, oh, about $41 million less?

Originally posted by MrX
The Celtics signed Mark Blount for 41 million over 6 years-eek-

Wow, suddenly our Turkoglu deal doesnt sound too bad.

Originally posted by B.A.
I was wondering how long it would take for you to see that. :)
I saw the bat-signal in the sky (a big Block "M") and knew somewhere I was needed to defend my college! ;)

Originally posted by MrX
The Celtics signed Mark Blount for 41 million over 6 years-eek-
This guy was like #3 or 4 on the Pistons list to replace Okur once they re-sign 'Sheed. But certainly not at that price. Danny Ainge needs to be drug tested.

Sigh - if only I were 6'11" instead of 6'3". I'd be a stiff big guy making millions holdin' down the end of the bench in the NBA.

Originally posted by MrX
The Celtics signed Mark Blount for 41 million over 6 years-eek-

See, putting forth effort for 3 months out of one season will net you $41M. Frickin amazing.

Brian Skinner signed with the Sixers, 5 years / $25 million :eek:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1836401

This is getting outrageous.

I think if the Suns get Q, they'll be packaging Joe Johnson and Marion and maybe Jaccobsen to try and get a big guy. Not sure who's out there, but that would have to be their thinking.

Originally posted by PopcornTreeCt
Wow, I'm happy Orlando is going after players I was just hoping they were gonna go after someone bigger like K-Mart or 'Sheed.

I don't think they have the cap room for either of them.

I'm not too dissappointed with Turkaglo, just seems like a little much. At 6'10" he should be even more effective in the east.

Jesusfrickenchrist.

We had Skinner once and didnt bother to keep him now were signing him for 5 years?

We had Skinner once as a throw in and waived him immediately.

IIRC we did the same thing with Bruce Bowen, oops!

Report: Magic GM receives death threats at his home
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBpZmFlcXBpBF9TAzk1ODYxOTQ4BHNlYwN0aA--?slug=ap-magic-threats&prov=ap&type=lgns

July 7, 2004
ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) -- Orlando Magic general manager John Weisbrod reportedly received written death threats at his home about trading two-time NBA scoring champion Tracy McGrady.

Florida Today reported Wednesday that Weisbrod received two such threats since mid-June, and was forced to check into a hotel under an alias for two nights last week.

On June 17, one week before the NBA draft, Weisbrod found a threatening note taped to the front door of his home. He said he called Magic assistant general manager Scott Herring and went ahead with plans to take draft prospect Emeka Okafor to dinner.

Nearly two weeks later, on the day the Magic announced McGrady's trade to Houston, a death threat was scribbled on the glass door of the house with a grease marker, Weisbrod said.

``I get harassing correspondence all the time, but when it starts happening at your house, that raises the bar to a different level,'' said Weisbrod, a 35-year-old divorced father of one.

Weisbrod said the Magic notified the Orange County Sheriff's Office of the threats last week, but filed no official report because he wanted to keep the incidents ``out of the public eye.''

Sheriff's officials took the June 17 note to analyze for fingerprints and study the handwriting, he said.

McGrady, an all-star in each of the four years he played in Orlando, was sent to Houston with three others in exchange for point guard Steve Francis, shooting guard Cuttino Mobley and center/forward Kelvin Cato. The deal was announced June 30.

McGrady averaged 28.1 points for the Magic, and quickly became the team's most popular player.

But he told team owner Rich DeVos he wanted to be traded, and the Magic didn't want to be left without compensation if McGrady opted out of his seven-year, $93 million contract after next season.

----------------------------

I suspect it came from the Big Aristotle. :lol:

Big Contracts = Teams with cap room + lack of great FA class + idiot GMs

This is like a few years back when players like Todd MacCulloch were getting tremendous deals.

Unrestricted free agent center Mark Blount has decided to re-sign with the Boston Celtics. The deal is reported to be for $41 million over six years.

:eek: What's with mid-card big men getting fat contracts?

ESPN just reported that Carlos Boozer just signed a 6 year, $68 million -eek- deal with the Jazz. Looks like Cleveland screwed up.

Haha...Boozer screwed the Cavs..he promised he would resign with them if they let him out of his option and now he will sign with another team.

Looks like he can finally afford to get his eyebrows waxed.

Boozer schooled John Paxson, who just f'd up what could have been a nice team. But with Lebron James around, he should be able to cover many mistakes (Unless of course Cleveland can clear enough space to match)

Ouch, that really hurts the Cavs. They had a nice young pair going with Lebron and Boozer. That's one fat contract though.

Don't forget Luke Jackson.

A lineup with Jackson, Lebron, and Boozer in it would have been a sure playoff lineup.

This should make the Olympic practices a little more interesting with both Lebron and Boozer on the team.

I wonder who Cleveland will go after to replace him.

Originally posted by Josh Hinkle
I don't think they have the cap room for either of them.

I'm not too dissappointed with Turkaglo, just seems like a little much. At 6'10" he should be even more effective in the east.

Guy has so much potential, but just won't live up to it. He had a great regular season for the Spurs and then fell apart in the playoffs. I think he shot 8 of 28 from three point range against the Lakers.

Spurs are rumored to have made Manu Ginobili the third highest paid Spur in history. Something like $50 million over 6 years. I can't wait to see how much Stephen Jackson gets offered. Manu is a good player, but I see the Spurs regreting that contract pretty quickly. They will have to pay even more to Tony Parker next offseason and they will pretty much be unable to have any kind of bench for the next 5 years.

Brent Barry is rumored to be the next Spurs target for signing so I'm not even sure Stephen Jackson will get to join the Spurs. No way the Spurs pay Manu that much a year to come off the bench.

Wow, Boozer screwed Cleveland hardcore. Cleveland didn't have to do anything and Boozer would have been paid less than 1 million per year as a 2nd round pick in his 2nd year. Instead, they do the classy thing and offer their full mid-level exception. And he goes on to sign with the Jazz. As if I needed a reason to hate guys from Duke anymore..;)

Originally posted by RJainMJ
Wow, Boozer screwed Cleveland hardcore. Cleveland didn't have to do anything and Boozer would have been paid less than 1 million per year as a 2nd round pick in his 2nd year. Instead, they do the classy thing and offer their full mid-level exception. And he goes on to sign with the Jazz. As if I needed a reason to hate guys from Duke anymore..;) I don't see it as screwing him. If I understand the situation, he would have been an unrestricted FA next year, so they took a calculated gamble that they could lock him up long term now. They lost the gamble.

Originally posted by joltaddict
Jesusfrickenchrist.

We had Skinner once and didnt bother to keep him now were signing him for 5 years? The Celtics and Sixers, idiots together. :(

Originally posted by LurkerDan
I don't see it as screwing him. If I understand the situation, he would have been an unrestricted FA next year, so they took a calculated gamble that they could lock him up long term now. They lost the gamble.

If Cleveland really was worried that Boozer would go back on his word, they would have kept him under contract for this year and offered him more money next year. Cleveland doesn't have much cap room this year (which is why they can't match Utah), but, looking at their contract situation (http://www.ibiblio.org/craig/draft/2003_draft/Picks/1_cleveland.shtml) for next year, they would definitely have more cap room next year since Ilgauskas would be a FA and off their cap. So, in allowing Boozer to become a FA, they fully expected him to keep his word.

Originally posted by joltaddict
Jesusfrickenchrist.

We had Skinner once and didnt bother to keep him now were signing him for 5 years?

What a desperate move by the Sixers. Just awful. These contracts are ludicrous. The way some of these mediocre players are getting paid, it makes Kobe (one of the few in this FA class who deserves big money) seem like he should get about 500 million or so.

Originally posted by LurkerDan
I don't see it as screwing him. If I understand the situation, he would have been an unrestricted FA next year, so they took a calculated gamble that they could lock him up long term now. They lost the gamble.

Actually I'm believe he might still would have restricted (I've heard different reports) after next year. And he would have had fully vested Bird rights, so Cleveland could match any offer he received and then some. All that had to do was pick up the option for next year at under $700,000 ($695,046 to be exact - which would make him one of the lowest paid players in the NBA)

I still don't get the move though. I thought the plan was to not pick up the option as a good faith move in order to allow Boozer to make the mid-level exemption next year ($5.4 million or so). Then sign him to a huge deal after next year when they have the Bird rights. Instead I keep reading about this plan to sign him for a 6 year deal for around 40 million using the mid-level. Why would Boozer ever consent to doing that. less than 7 million a year for a player of his caliber is cheap. Especially in six years when he should theoretically be better and the NBA salaries should theoretically be still rising.

So I'm looking on the web to try and see if Boozer would have been restricted or unrestricted next year. On ESPN I found this Chad Ford's column:

http://proxy.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&id=1836108

which states he would still be restricted next year

and so does this:

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4188056

and then I find this:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=nba&id=1832906

which says he would be unrestricted

So I have no idea. I did find this:

(b) Beginning with the 1999-2000 Salary Cap Year, any Veteran Free Agent whose first Season in the NBA was the 1998-99 Season or later (other than a Veteran Free Agent whose Fourth Year Option was not exercised), and who will have three (3) or fewer Years of Service as of the June 30 following the end of the last Season covered by his Player Contract, will be a Restricted Free Agent if his Prior Team makes a Qualifying Offer to the player at any time from the day following such Season through the immediately following June 30. If such a Qualifying Offer is made, then, on the July 1 following the last Season covered by the player’s Player Contract, the player shall become a Restricted Free Agent, subject to a Right of First Refusal in favor of the Team ("ROFR Team"), as set forth in Section 6 below. If such a Qualifying Offer is not made, then the player shall become an Unrestricted Free Agent on such July 1.

I don't blame him for taking the money, it's just funny to me he broke his word when Vitale goes on and on about what first-class people <strike>Satan and his minions</strike>Coach K and his asst's produce.

I'm just happy that Kobe still hasnt made up his mind up yet and has basically screwed the Lakers of picking up any free agents.

Originally posted by PopcornTreeCt
I'm just happy that Kobe still hasnt made up his mind up yet and has basically screwed the Lakers of picking up any free agents.

I'm not sure that matters much, outside of trying to sign a shooting guard (although i have no problems with Kareen Rush starting). Shaq eats up so much cap room that i don't think the Lakers really had much to spend anyway, outside of their mid-level exception, most of which is probably going towards Malone if he returns.

Originally posted by Jericho
So I'm looking on the web to try and see if Boozer would have been restricted or unrestricted next year. On ESPN I found this Chad Ford's column:

http://proxy.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&id=1836108

which states he would still be restricted next year

and so does this:

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4188056

and then I find this:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=nba&id=1832906

which says he would be unrestricted

So I have no idea. I did find this:

(b) Beginning with the 1999-2000 Salary Cap Year, any Veteran Free Agent whose first Season in the NBA was the 1998-99 Season or later (other than a Veteran Free Agent whose Fourth Year Option was not exercised), and who will have three (3) or fewer Years of Service as of the June 30 following the end of the last Season covered by his Player Contract, will be a Restricted Free Agent if his Prior Team makes a Qualifying Offer to the player at any time from the day following such Season through the immediately following June 30. If such a Qualifying Offer is made, then, on the July 1 following the last Season covered by the player’s Player Contract, the player shall become a Restricted Free Agent, subject to a Right of First Refusal in favor of the Team ("ROFR Team"), as set forth in Section 6 below. If such a Qualifying Offer is not made, then the player shall become an Unrestricted Free Agent on such July 1. Well, I dunno, but he was a 2nd round draft pick, and I know that changes the equation...

Originally posted by LurkerDan
Well, I dunno, but he was a 2nd round draft pick, and I know that changes the equation...

Well if I had to guess I think he was restricted. First round picks have a 3 year deal with a team option for a fourth. Even after that they are restricted, i.e. Kenyon Martin and Jamal Crawford. Second round picks usually have two years deals and then are restricted, like Ginobili and Okur. But since Boozer had a team option for the 3rd year, I would think he would still be restricted because it's still his rookie contract. But I wish the stories were clearer in that regard.

Carlos Boozer getting $11 million per year.

Bwahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!

The Hawks just offered Kenyon Martin a 6 year deal, probably close to the max.

To maybe put the contracts being doled out in perspective.

How deep is a typical NBA team? 8 players, maybe 10? Not counting the two token stiffs who never get any playing time and given the $45 million cap this year that would imply that the average guy in the rotation should make on average $4.5-$5.6 million per year. Of course, that's just an average and for every max player you have, you'll have to have at least two guys making close to the minimum but someone making $6-$7 million doesn't seem to outlandish at this point.

Originally posted by cdollaz
Carlos Boozer getting $11 million per year.

Bwahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!! I believe every fan of every team other than the Jazz is breathing a sigh of relief that they're not the idiots who did that.

Originally posted by Fokker's Feint
To maybe put the contracts being doled out in perspective.

How deep is a typical NBA team? 8 players, maybe 10? Not counting the two token stiffs who never get any playing time and given the $45 million cap this year that would imply that the average guy in the rotation should make on average $4.5-$5.6 million per year. Of course, that's just an average and for every max player you have, you'll have to have at least two guys making close to the minimum but someone making $6-$7 million doesn't seem to outlandish at this point.

I agree with your reasoning. But Brian Skinner making $5 million a year? He is not an "average" NBA player. He is a pine rider that should be getting much less than the average you state. Same thing with Mark Blount and Adonyle Foyle. Those guys are not average NBA players, but are each getting paid in the 7 to 8 million per range. Plus you have to remember some of the older max players, ie Shaq and KG, have their contracts grandfathered in so their maxes are bigger than the maxes that the new guys get. KG gets something like 20+ million a year and Shaq is at 27 and 30 for the next two.

Originally posted by Bushdog
I believe every fan of every team other than the Jazz is breathing a sigh of relief that they're not the idiots who did that.

Why is that? I mean the deal's not that bad. I'll grant you Boozer's not worth $11 million now, but he's a pretty good player right now who is young and improving. Besides, would one rather save a few million and sign some retread like Adonal Foyle, or throw a few extra bucks and actually get someone good.

Originally posted by nchhabra
I agree with your reasoning. But Brian Skinner making $5 million a year? He is not an "average" NBA player. He is a pine rider that should be getting much less than the average you state. Same thing with Mark Blount and Adonyle Foyle. Those guys are not average NBA players, but are each getting paid in the 7 to 8 million per range. Plus you have to remember some of the older max players, ie Shaq and KG, have their contracts grandfathered in so their maxes are bigger than the maxes that the new guys get. KG gets something like 20+ million a year and Shaq is at 27 and 30 for the next two.

Skinner did average 10.5 points and 7.3 boards last year on a playoff team. That seems average enough to me. Blount average similar numbers. Granted in free agency you inevitably overpay, that's the nature of the beast, but Blount and Skinner were at least servicable

Brian Cardinal signs w/ Memphis: 6 years, 39 mil.

:jawdrop:

I loved the way Cardinal played for the Warriors last season but wow 6+/yr.

Originally posted by Jericho
Skinner did average 10.5 points and 7.3 boards last year on a playoff team. That seems average enough to me. Blount average similar numbers. Granted in free agency you inevitably overpay, that's the nature of the beast, but Blount and Skinner were at least servicable

Yep you are right. I was completely wrong about Skinner, but in my defense I was thinking about Brian Scalibrine of the Nets. Had the 2 completely confused. I don't know anything about Skinner, so I will give him the benefit of the doubt. Blount's numbers were good this year, but he was also in a contract year. Granted he got more minutes, but I have never really agreed with paying players an assload of money based on 1 decent year and potential. But again this is just my opinion.

Originally posted by grrrah
Brian Cardinal signs w/ Memphis: 6 years, 39 mil.
Whoa. He cleaned up.

Similarly, The Bucks are going to offer a similar deal to Etan Thomas.

Originally posted by nchhabra
Yep you are right. I was completely wrong about Skinner, but in my defense I was thinking about Brian Scalibrine of the Nets. Had the 2 completely confused. I don't know anything about Skinner, so I will give him the benefit of the doubt. Blount's numbers were good this year, but he was also in a contract year. Granted he got more minutes, but I have never really agreed with paying players an assload of money based on 1 decent year and potential. But again this is just my opinion.

I do agree. In fact The Sports guy calls this the Jim McIlvaine syndrome in his article trying to defend the Blount signing. In basketball it's probably not as bad as other sports since there's more year to year consistency, but it's on problem common to free agency. Overpay on the career year. So now the question is, if these crappy guys get this money, what can Eric Dampier get. Dampier's also very risky, but at least has been okay in his career (and pretty good for a center last year)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1837273

Brent Barry just signed with the Spurs. Good pickup for the Spurs.

Yeah if they keep Bowen I love how that team looks for next year.

Originally posted by tofu
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1837273

Brent Barry just signed with the Spurs. Good pickup for the Spurs. Barry is definitely worth that money. Very nice move by the SPurs...

Originally posted by cdollaz
Carlos Boozer getting $11 million per year.

Bwahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!

That is crazy. He better represent!

Crawford to the Knicks is almost a done deal

According to the Chicago Tribune the trade right now would most likely be Shandon Anderson, Dikembe Mutombo, Othella Harrington and Frank Williams for Crawford, Eddie Robinson and Jerome Williams. Crawfords contract would be 70 million over 7 years or another report said it could be 57 million over 6 years.

Getting rid of Crawford and E-Rob:up:

Originally posted by nchhabra
Yep you are right. I was completely wrong about Skinner, but in my defense I was thinking about Brian Scalibrine of the Nets. Had the 2 completely confused. I don't know anything about Skinner, so I will give him the benefit of the doubt. Blount's numbers were good this year, but he was also in a contract year. Granted he got more minutes, but I have never really agreed with paying players an assload of money based on 1 decent year and potential. But again this is just my opinion. No, you weren't wrong about Skinner. The guy is 28, and before last year had never averaged more than 6ppg and 6rpg. So, big whoop, last year he got some more minutes and averaged 10 and 7. He turned the ball over almost 1.5 pg, had less than an assist a game, and didn't even shoot 50% (which for an inside guy is pretty bad).

There is NO WAY Philly got a good deal here.

Originally posted by Quake1028
Yeah if they keep Bowen I love how that team looks for next year.

Bowen is getting a three year $9 million dollar deal. Another pretty good bargain.

So far they have three guys signed. Not sure if they will resign Horry, but Kevin Willis will get an offer for the veteran minimum and they may still go after Stephen Jackson.

Originally posted by MrX
Crawford to the Knicks is almost a done deal

According to the Chicago Tribune the trade right now would most likely be Shandon Anderson, Dikembe Mutombo, Othella Harrington and Frank Williams for Crawford, Eddie Robinson and Jerome Williams. Crawfords contract would be 70 million over 7 years or another report said it could be 57 million over 6 years.

Getting rid of Crawford and E-Rob:up: Not sure what I think of this deal overall, but as a Knicks fan, getting rid of Anderson and Deke :up:

:lol:

Originally posted by MrX
Crawford to the Knicks is almost a done deal

According to the Chicago Tribune the trade right now would most likely be Shandon Anderson, Dikembe Mutombo, Othella Harrington and Frank Williams for Crawford, Eddie Robinson and Jerome Williams. Crawfords contract would be 70 million over 7 years or another report said it could be 57 million over 6 years.

Getting rid of Crawford and E-Rob:up:

Not knowing all the players' salaries does hurt a bit, but I don't get this deal at all. Crawford is a tradeable asset. Other teams would give up assets to get him. None of those players seem like assets. Mutombo and Harrington do have contracts expiring soon, but does Anderson? And are Robinson and Williams' contracts that bad?

Originally posted by Jericho
And are Robinson and Williams' contracts that bad?
Both have about 6-7 million a year left on their contracts. Robonson for 2 more years and Williams for 3 more years.

Mutombo and Harrington are only under contract for next season

That just doesn't make any sense to me. Does this mean that Isiah is looking to trade Houston because how are they going to manage minutes between Crawford, Houston and Marbury. It just seems destined for a blowup.

Stephen Jackson signs with the PacersStephen Jackson has agreed to a six-year, $39 million contract with the Indiana Pacers, a source close to Jackson told ESPN Insider's Chad Ford.

The Pacers will use their entire mid-level exception to sign Jackson. Indiana has been looking for some athleticism and perimeter shooting in their backcourt and Jackson, who has championship experience with the Spurs, can provide both.

Jackson averaged 18.1 points, 4.6 rebounds and 3.1 assists per game last season in his only campaign as a Hawk. That followed his breakout season in San Antonio, where he averaged 11.8 points per game for the 2002-03 NBA champions.

Jackson's forthcoming signing may trigger another deal for the Pacers. The team has been trying for weeks to move Al Harrington in an effort to clear enough money under the luxury tax threshold to sign a free agent. With Jackson agreeing to terms, Harrington likely will be moved to a team with enough cap room to swallow his deal.I wonder which team w/ the cap room will benefit by getting Harrington for a draft pick/non-guaranteed contract/etc... Teams that still have cap room include the Hawks ($20M), Bobcats ($17M), and Nuggets ($16M). Harrington is due $13M over the next 2 years.

edit: Apparently it's a sign-and-trade between Atlanta and Indiana. Atlanta gets Harrington, and Indiana gets Jackson at $44M/6 years.

Originally posted by tofu
Wow, that would be quite a lineup if Q actually sticks with the Suns. But if they actually do sign him, aren't they going to have to go over the cap to give Stoudemire an extension? You're allowed to go over the cap to give your own players an extension, provide you have their Bird rights (and the Suns will have Amare's Bird rights when he's due for an extension). Of course, there are other reasons why a team might not want to go too far over the cap (luxury tax possibility, to be precise), but the Suns still have the capability of extending Amare's contract regardardless of their cap situation.

Originally posted by nchhabra
Plus you have to remember some of the older max players, ie Shaq and KG, have their contracts grandfathered in so their maxes are bigger than the maxes that the new guys get. KG gets something like 20+ million a year and Shaq is at 27 and 30 for the next two. Actually, you're incorrect about Garnett. KG extended his contract with the Timberwolves at far, far less than what he was "eligible" to receive. Yes, his previous contract was grandfathered in so he was eligible for a max raise, but he signed a contract extension at a more "current CBA-like" level. He is due $16M next year, not more than $20M. It does reach over $20M by 2006-07, though. Also, there are actually four players making more than KG next year: Shaq ($29.5M), Dikembe ($18.8M by two teams, $5M from the Knicks (or rather Bulls now, I suppose), and the rest by the Nets), Houston ($17.5M), and Webber ($17.5M).

Originally posted by LurkerDan
Barry is definitely worth that money. Very nice move by the SPurs... This gives the Spurs a team of:
5: Rasho ($6.2M), (still need to sign a veteran backup C... Willis?)
4: Duncan ($14.2M), Rose ($5.5M)
3: Bowen ($3M?)
2: Ginobili ($7M?), Barry ($4.5M?), Devin Brown ($700K)
1: Parker ($1.5M), Udrih ($700K)

For a total of $43.3M at those figures. Still need a backup C, maybe another shooter or two. Barry is good because he can be a shooter and be a good veteran backup PG for Parker. I like this team.

Originally posted by MrX
Crawford to the Knicks is almost a done deal

According to the Chicago Tribune the trade right now would most likely be Shandon Anderson, Dikembe Mutombo, Othella Harrington and Frank Williams for Crawford, Eddie Robinson and Jerome Williams. Crawfords contract would be 70 million over 7 years or another report said it could be 57 million over 6 years.

Getting rid of Crawford and E-Rob:up: Here are the details on all of the players' contracts (amount for each year left on the player's contract is listed):


Bulls receive:
Shandon Anderson - $7.3M in 04-05, $7.9M, $8.5M
Dikembe Mutombo - $4.5M
Othella Harrington - $3.2M
Frank Williams - $960K, $1.7M (team option)

If the Bulls don't pick up Frank Williams' team option, they drop $8.7M off the books after next year, still on the hook for $17.4M for two more year of Shandon Anderson.


Knicks receive (and I'm using the reported Crawford contract figures listed above, and assuming they're using the "maximum raises" thing for a sign-and-trade FA, which would be 12.5%):
Eddie Robinson - $6.8M, $7.3M
Jerome Williams - $5.6M, $6.1M, $6.4M, $7.1M (team option)
Jamal Crawford -
($70M/7) - something like $7M, $7.9M, $8.6M, $10M, $11.2M, $12.6M, $14.2M
($57M/6) - drop the last year from above


I'm not entirely sure this works out even, though. Surely there's another player the Bulls have to take on. This comes out to $16M from the Knicks to about $19.5M from the Bulls, which is a little too big of a difference in salary. Maybe not, though. I might have Jamal Crawford's contract wrong (it could be a little less than the maximum 12.5% raises, upping the first year of his contract's value up some, which would even out the salaries).

If Crawford is signed and then traded, doesn't that make him a base year player for trade analysis?

Still doesn't look like a great trade for the Bulls. I mean they take on a lot of salary in Anderson. Why not just trade Crawford to another team for something else?

Oh yeah... I forgot about that. Hmmm... a little more research is needed...

Or, I could just do the sensible thing and just wait for the trade and signing to be announced, right? :)

Originally posted by Jericho
If Crawford is signed and then traded, doesn't that make him a base year player for trade analysis?

Still doesn't look like a great trade for the Bulls. I mean they take on a lot of salary in Anderson. Why not just trade Crawford to another team for something else?
Becasue no other team is willing to pay Crawford what the Knicks will.

Anderson's contract is bad but it's close to Williams plus Eddie Robinson and Crawford have been locker room cancers.

I like the trade from the Bulls perspective

Hell yeah, bring Frank Williams back home to Illinois. I still think he may have a future in the league if given a chance.

Originally posted by MrX
Becasue no other team is willing to pay Crawford what the Knicks will.

Anderson's contract is bad but it's close to Williams plus Eddie Robinson and Crawford have been locker room cancers.

I like the trade from the Bulls perspective

No team may be willing to pay crawford as much, but Crawford can't actually sign with the Knicks for that money unless the Bulls agree to do so for them. So it's really not Crawford's or the Knick's choice. The Bulls should just blow off the Knicks if that's all they get.

Originally posted by B.A.
Hell yeah, bring Frank Williams back home to Illinois. I still think he may have a future in the league if given a chance.
he'll have to really fight for minutes with Gordon and Hinrich there.

Originally posted by tofu
he'll have to really fight for minutes with Gordon and Hinrich there. I realize that - it's just wishful thinking.

Originally posted by Hoonster
Actually, you're incorrect about Garnett. KG extended his contract with the Timberwolves at far, far less than what he was "eligible" to receive. Yes, his previous contract was grandfathered in so he was eligible for a max raise, but he signed a contract extension at a more "current CBA-like" level. He is due $16M next year, not more than $20M. It does reach over $20M by 2006-07, though. Also, there are actually four players making more than KG next year: Shaq ($29.5M), Dikembe ($18.8M by two teams, $5M from the Knicks (or rather Bulls now, I suppose), and the rest by the Nets), Houston ($17.5M), and Webber ($17.5M).

I am not really wrong about KG. His max is more than other players max. Granted he doesn't make the max, but that is another issue. I heard his contract is like 5 years for a little over 100 million which is an average of 20+ million a year. I realize that the first year will be like 16 or 17 and the last year will be more. If I remember correctly he could have made like 180 million for 5 years but he took a "paycut" as the media called it so the T-Wolves could bring in Spree and Cassell. My point in that post was that his max is more than say the max that Lebron or someone like that will max at. If KG signs another extension in 4 years, his max will be an astronomical compared to the other players whose original contracts are post 1999 lockout.

Originally posted by B.A.
I realize that - it's just wishful thinking.
About as much as me hoping that Adonal Foyle lives up to his contract :D

Originally posted by nchhabra
I am not really wrong about KG. His max is more than other players max. Granted he doesn't make the max, but that is another issue. I heard his contract is like 5 years for a little over 100 million which is an average of 20+ million a year. I realize that the first year will be like 16 or 17 and the last year will be more. If I remember correctly he could have made like 130 million for 5 years but he took a "paycut" as the media called it so the T-Wolves could bring in Spree and Cass