From Sportscenter last night/this morning....no link or elaboration as of yet. A noticeable absence is the Super Bowl loser, Carolina. St. Louis at 7 seems like a reach to me, and I don't really see NE and PHI at #1 & 2....thoughts?
10. Atlanta
9. Washington
8. Baltimore
7. St. Louis
6. Seattle
5. Kansas City
4. Tennessee
3. Indianapolis
2. Philadelphia
1. New England
chrisih8u
06-29-04, 12:21 PM
1 and 2 seem right. Whats wrong with those? New England won the Superbowl and got better. Philly got to the NFC championship game and got better.
Id put Tennessee and Indy lower. Carolina should be there somewhere, though.
Mad Dawg
06-29-04, 12:38 PM
Other than the seeming curse of Superbowl winners in the following season, I don't see how NE wouldn't be ranked first. Colvin's coming back, and they have a true powerhouse running game with Dillon. Even Ty Law changed his tune.
As far as New Orleans, I look forward to another great year of wall-punching frustration, so I'm glad they aren't in the top 10 to make it worse. :up:
Deftones
06-29-04, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by Mad Dawg
As far as New Orleans, I look forward to another great year of wall-punching frustration, so I'm glad they aren't in the top 10 to make it worse. :up:
You have no idea the frustration of a AZ Cardinals fan. :lol:
Mad Dawg
06-29-04, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by Deftones, Esq
You have no idea the frustration of a AZ Cardinals fan. :lol:
Cards fan - Looking at a delicious steak on TV.
Saints fan - Going to a steakhouse, watching everyone in the place savoring the succulence, ordering a mouth-watering filet mignon, and then watching the waiters and cooks all quit and walk out.
dancinns
06-29-04, 12:54 PM
Washington #9 :up:
AgtFox
06-29-04, 12:56 PM
Atlanta has to be the throwaway pick at #10. Seems analysts are still on the Michael Vick bandwagon and I don't think they'll be one of the top 10.
Mad Dawg
06-29-04, 12:58 PM
Originally posted by AgtFox
Atlanta has to be the throwaway pick at #10. Seems analysts are still on the Michael Vick bandwagon and I don't think they'll be one of the top 10.
Yeah, 10 is questionable. Heck, most can't seem to agree which out of the Panthers, Saints, Falcons, or even Bucs (nah) will win the division.
Red Dog
06-29-04, 01:01 PM
I was hoping Seattle would be more off the radar. They are my dark horse and I plan on laying something on them to win it all - should be good odds.
I hope the Skins are that good.
chrisih8u
06-29-04, 01:03 PM
I think the Texans will win a playoff game this year.
Mad Dawg
06-29-04, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by chrisih8u
I think the Texans will win a playoff game this year.
I hope so. They have such a solid base of young offensive talent, and they've made several good moves. Capers and Casserly are already heroes in this town, and if they were to get them even to 8-8, there might be a prarde for those two.
chrisih8u
06-29-04, 01:15 PM
Yeah, they made some good improvements on their defense and their offense should be even better than last year. They played the Patriots real tough last year.
LurkerDan
06-29-04, 01:29 PM
Redskins at #9 seems a big stretch.
twikoff
06-29-04, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by AgtFox
Atlanta has to be the throwaway pick at #10. Seems analysts are still on the Michael Vick bandwagon and I don't think they'll be one of the top 10.
thats because atlanta is a huge question mark
might win it all
might only win 6
only time will tell
wildcatlh
06-29-04, 01:36 PM
Originally posted by Mad Dawg
Cards fan - Looking at a delicious steak on TV.
Saints fan - Going to a steakhouse, watching everyone in the place savoring the succulence, ordering a mouth-watering filet mignon, and then watching the waiters and cooks all quit and walk out.
And neither is as bad as being a Dolphins fan. :)
the aftermath
06-29-04, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by WildcatLH
And neither is as bad as being a Dolphins fan. :) Preach on brotha! ;)
brizz
06-29-04, 02:19 PM
imagine that, chrisih8u feels New England is deserving of the #1...i'm shocked...shocked i tell you!! ;)
I guess i'm not convinced they got better, and with the way things go in the NFL in recent years, i'd be amazed if they make it back. Same goes for Philly. Although i'd rate their chances as better than NEs simply because of TO and Kearse signing on.
Mad Dawg
06-29-04, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by brizz
imagine that, chrisih8u feels New England is deserving of the #1...i'm shocked...shocked i tell you!! ;)
I guess i'm not convinced they got better, and with the way things go in the NFL in recent years, i'd be amazed if they make it back. Same goes for Philly. Although i'd rate their chances as better than NEs simply because of TO and Kearse signing on.
They kept almost all of the team intact, save for Ted Washington (and that could be a big loss). But Roosevelt Colvin missed the entire season, and he has the potential to be a big time playmaker at LB. Then you take NE's single biggest weakness, the running game, and plug an All-Pro back in Corey Dillion in.
I just don't see where they took a big step back, or where another team (other than perhaps Philly) made enough moves to overtake them as favorites.
Red Dog
06-29-04, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by brizz
Although i'd rate their chances as better than NEs simply because of TO and Kearse signing on.
The only fathomable reason to rate Philly's chances as better is because of weaker conference competition. Let's see if Owens can avoid being a cancer and whether Kearse can regain his Pro Bowl form. I'm skeptical. Plus they are going with 2 new corners.
There is no reason why NE should not be the favorite going in. Of course, the preseason favorite label is probably a curse given the state of the NFL today.
Dubya
06-29-04, 03:03 PM
St. Louis is in decline, Seattle will win the West easily. I don't think Tennessee will make that much noise this year either. I'm skeptical of Washington only because of Brunell, maybe he will prove me wrong. Of the dark horse teams I think Jacksonville will continue their fairly strong finish to last season.
LurkerDan
06-29-04, 04:59 PM
Originally posted by brizz
imagine that, chrisih8u feels New England is deserving of the #1...i'm shocked...shocked i tell you!! ;)
I guess i'm not convinced they got better, and with the way things go in the NFL in recent years, i'd be amazed if they make it back. Same goes for Philly. Although i'd rate their chances as better than NEs simply because of TO and Kearse signing on. I don't see how anyone can make a colorable argument that NE is not the preseason favorite. They were clearly the best team last year, and haven't weakened (and arguably strengthened) their team.
Starting from the point that they were the best team last year, how can you argue any other team as #1? :hscratch:
And I am NOT a Patriot fan...
Bushdog
06-29-04, 05:28 PM
I hate, despise, wish death upon the Pats, but they are absolutely the favorite.
waporvare
06-29-04, 05:34 PM
Originally posted by Dubya
I don't think Tennessee will make that much noise this year either.
Everyone thinks that every year. For the most part this is still the same team that made the playoffs the past two seasons. Jevon Kearse leaving meant nothing to the Titans. He was on the bench for most of the past two seasons. The trade of Justin McCarreins will hurt some though.
I still see the AFC South coming down to Indy or Tennessee. And unless a lot of basement dwellers make a huge turnaround Tennessee seems to have the easiest schedule of the two. The Colts have New England and Baltimore to deal with.
I'm a Titans season ticket holder and I've got to admit that there aren't that many big games for me to get excited about this season.
Games that don't excite me
Houston twice H A
Cincy (But Marvin has made it better so who knows) H
Chicago H
Detroit H
San Diego A
Might be good games
Jacksonville H A
Miami A
Minnesota A
Oakland A
Should be good
Indy twice H A
Green Bay A
Kansas City H
Denver H
So there's only 4 home games that I think will be good, and two of those are questionable.
Roto
06-29-04, 05:56 PM
Originally posted by Red Dog
I was hoping Seattle would be more off the radar. They are my dark horse and I plan on laying something on them to win it all - should be good odds.
I hope the Skins are that good.
John Clayton used to write for the Tacoma News Tribune up until a few years ago when I suppose he finally got too busy for it. He still does a local radio show on Saturday mornings, so he'd be the last national reporter to overlook the Seahawks.
I don't think there's anybody out there in the media that knows the NFL better than Clayton. Last week someone called his show and asked him if coaches ever asked him for advice. He said he gets asked for his opinion on players, but usually they ignore it anyway. :D
chrisih8u
06-29-04, 07:37 PM
Originally posted by brizz
imagine that, chrisih8u feels New England is deserving of the #1...i'm shocked...shocked i tell you!! ;)
I guess i'm not convinced they got better, and with the way things go in the NFL in recent years, i'd be amazed if they make it back. Same goes for Philly. Although i'd rate their chances as better than NEs simply because of TO and Kearse signing on.
:lol:
Of course they got better. They added a quality back, they get Colvin healthy, they replaced Washington in the draft and added depth to their defensive backfield. So on paper, they are better and deserve to be listed number 1.
RyoHazuki
06-29-04, 09:15 PM
Originally posted by Deftones, Esq
You have no idea the frustration of a AZ Cardinals fan. :lol: But we've got Dennis Green this year!!! He'll turn the team around just like Buddy Ryan, Vince Tobin, and Dave McGinnis before him.
Deftones
06-29-04, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by RyoHazuki
But we've got Dennis Green this year!!! He'll turn the team around just like Buddy Ryan, Vince Tobin, and Dave McGinnis before him.
Well, to his credit, he's done quite a bit more than all of those combined in his very short tenure so far. I have more expectations because, frankly, he's a much better coach.
eXcentris
06-29-04, 09:31 PM
Dallas signed Vinny and they aren't in the top 10? :hscratch:
...:D...
nchhabra
06-29-04, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by LurkerDan
I don't see how anyone can make a colorable argument that NE is not the preseason favorite. They were clearly the best team last year, and haven't weakened (and arguably strengthened) their team.
Starting from the point that they were the best team last year, how can you argue any other team as #1? :hscratch:
And I am NOT a Patriot fan...
I see one potential pitfall. I am not a Patriots fan so I don't know everything about them. With that disclaimer out of the way, it seems to me that a lot of the Pats success is due to their chemistry. Their players seem to have a team first attitude from top to bottom, at least moreso than any other team in the league. I don't think there is any question that Corey Dillon has been a me-first player in the past. Of course playing for the Bengals for your entire career can do that to you, but I see this as being a potential for problems with the Patriots. Will this be an issue when it comes down to it? I don't know, only time will tell, but it has the potential to be an issue.
I would pick the Eagles as my preseason favorites, but the addition of TO is much worse than Dillon in respect to his attitudes. I can't stand all of his antics, and I think in the end he will be more of detriment than a help. My preseason favorite is the Colts. I think one more year under Dungy will only make them better.
LurkerDan
06-29-04, 09:38 PM
Originally posted by nchhabra
I see one potential pitfall. I am not a Patriots fan so I don't know everything about them. With that disclaimer out of the way, it seems to me that a lot of the Pats success is due to their chemistry. Their players seem to have a team first attitude from top to bottom, at least moreso than any other team in the league. I don't think there is any question that Corey Dillon has been a me-first player in the past. Of course playing for the Bengals for your entire career can do that to you, but I see this as being a potential for problems with the Patriots. Will this be an issue when it comes down to it? I don't know, only time will tell, but it has the potential to be an issue.
I would pick the Eagles as my preseason favorites, but the addition of TO is much worse than Dillon in respect to his attitudes. I can't stand all of his antics, and I think in the end he will be more of detriment than a help. My preseason favorite is the Colts. I think one more year under Dungy will only make them better. I think you are missing the point. Who you might pick to win it all is very different than who gets to be #1 in an ESPN power ranking. Yes, Dillon could be a problem. But there is simply NO REASON that in an objective preseason ranking, the best team from last year that has lost little and possibly gained strength should be ranked anywhere but #1.
RJainMJ
06-29-04, 09:42 PM
I'm so excited about the Eagles. They went out and made the biggest splash in free agency a team in Philly has ... well in my lifetime. As Red Dog pointed out though, they do have two new corners, who worry me. If nothing else, Johnson won't be able to use as many blitzes because he won't have confidence that the corners can cover receivers in single coverage.
kantonburg
06-29-04, 10:14 PM
I have to agree with the Vick bandwagon. Living not too far from Blacksburg and being a Wahoo fan I had to endure the whole Hokie mania that exploded. I will however give Michael his props for talent...BUT....He has to prove to me he is durable and reliable. I really hope he does as I like to watch him play but even at VT he was injury prone and it's followed him to the NFL.
brizz
06-29-04, 10:33 PM
I'm not saying that the Pats shouldn't be the favorites I guess, but was more saying that I suspect when January rolls around they won't be there...just a hunch. And they also lost Damien Woody from the O-line, so it's not like they are completely intact. I don't know what to think about Dillon - he could go for 1,800 yds just as easily as 600...that's their big wildcard. I think they'll go as the running game goes....and i'm not convinced that Dillon can be that kind of guy.
And it also just seems that the favorites rarely make it there....
chrisih8u
06-29-04, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by brizz
I'm not saying that the Pats shouldn't be the favorites I guess, but was more saying that I suspect when January rolls around they won't be there...just a hunch. And they also lost Damien Woody from the O-line, so it's not like they are completely intact. I don't know what to think about Dillon - he could go for 1,800 yds just as easily as 600...that's their big wildcard. I think they'll go as the running game goes....and i'm not convinced that Dillon can be that kind of guy.
And it also just seems that the favorites rarely make it there....
Woody didnt play in the playoffs and the Pats got along just fine without him. I think that Corey Dillon is better than Antoine Smith, so thats an upgrade.
But youre right about the favorite not repeating. Tampa Bay was a huge favorite and they didnt make the playoffs. So who knows?
BCorbett
06-30-04, 08:08 AM
Originally posted by chrisih8u
Philly got to the NFC championship game and got better.
I completely disagree with the notion that Philly got any better at all. The pieces they added are questionable at best (Can TO catch passes with his feet and keep his mouth shut? Can Kearse play more than 3 downs without sustaining an injury? Can Andrews stay out of the Guiness Book of World Records?) And they lost an awful lot of significant contributors including half of their starting secondary.
With the addition of Gibbs in Washington, the NFC East appears wide open this season.
cleaver
06-30-04, 09:55 AM
I certainly don't see Tennessee in the top 5...
chrisih8u
06-30-04, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by BCorbett
I completely disagree with the notion that Philly got any better at all. The pieces they added are questionable at best (Can TO catch passes with his feet and keep his mouth shut? Can Kearse play more than 3 downs without sustaining an injury? Can Andrews stay out of the Guiness Book of World Records?) And they lost an awful lot of significant contributors including half of their starting secondary.
With the addition of Gibbs in Washington, the NFC East appears wide open this season.
This list assumes that everyone on every team stays healthy and plays for the entire year. It also assumes that everyone plays as well as they usually do.
Owens is not questionable. He is probably the 3rd best WR in the NFL. Compare that to last year when the had the shittiest WRs and its obvious that its an improvement.
And while secondary may be a problem with the Eagles, it seems that on paper, they have improved as a team. And the NFC East may be wide open, but Philly is the team to beat.
brizz
06-30-04, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by chrisih8u
But youre right about the favorite not repeating. Tampa Bay was a huge favorite and they didnt make the playoffs. So who knows?
that's really all i was saying....honestly ;)
AgtFox
06-30-04, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by Deftones, Esq
Well, to his credit, he's done quite a bit more than all of those combined in his very short tenure so far. I have more expectations because, frankly, he's a much better coach.
Has Dennis Green given his sherriff speech yet? Where he talks about that he's the "new sherriff in town". Green will start off nice and innocent, but I have a feeling much like how it was up here that he will weave his web far and wide and be in charge of the whole thing again down in Arizona.
Did Solomon join him in Arizona, I never heard. Solomon had so many jobs while Green was coach up here because he was inept at each one. I believe in the last year he was just the outside left linebacker coach. Solomon follows Green wherever he goes and he is inept, so watch out if he has any sort of important job.
Trevor
06-30-04, 04:31 PM
I'm a big Redskins fan, but #9 is a big reach. They have added nothing that I see as value besides Gibbs, and without him the team was only going to get worse.
They'll win a SB or 2 in a few years, but will struggle to make 8-8 this year.
I'd drop Tennesee and KC a few slots, drop Atlanta and Washington out of the 10, and add Minnesota and Carolina.
It might be interesting for us all to make playoff predictions now and then pull the thread back up at week 16 or so....
chrisih8u
06-30-04, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by Trevor
I'm a big Redskins fan, but #9 is a big reach. They have added nothing that I see as value besides Gibbs, and without him the team was only going to get worse.
They added Portis, Springs, Brunell, Taylor, etc. Its not that much of a stretch to think they will be a top 10 team, although their division should be very tough.
Trevor
06-30-04, 04:47 PM
Portis - will he be great in Washington? or was a product of the system, where your mother could get 1500 yards in Denver?
Brunell - not an improvement
Springs - huge huge drop off from Bailey, way overrated, not a star anymore, just a capable starter on most teams
Taylor - rookie, but should be a star someday
Maybe I'm a pessimist, but I did predict them to go 5-11 last year, and was right on. So I do see a 2 or 3 game improvement.
chrisih8u
06-30-04, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by Trevor
Portis - will he be great in Washington? or was a product of the system, where your mother could get 1500 yards in Denver?
Brunell - not an improvement
Springs - huge huge drop off from Bailey, way overrated, not a star anymore, just a capable starter on most teams
Taylor - rookie, but should be a star someday
Maybe I'm a pessimist, but I did predict them to go 5-11 last year, and was right on. So I do see a 2 or 3 game improvement.
Valid points. Time will tell. I just wouldnt be surprised to see Washington have a winning record.
brizz
06-30-04, 05:06 PM
I think portis will prove to be the most interesting player to watch this year as a true guage of Denver's "system." More than any single player, i think he's got the biggest load on his shoulders to do well....very well.
Trevor
06-30-04, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by chrisih8u
Valid points. Time will tell. I just wouldnt be surprised to see Washington have a winning record.
I'd love to see it too, but will stay pessimistic.
My best friend just got season tickets (bought them 2 days before the Gibbs announcement) so I will be at at least 1 or 2 games this year.
How about that prediction thread idea? Maybe wait until the preseason is almost over and start a thread?
chrisih8u
06-30-04, 05:19 PM
Thats usually when most prediction threads start.
Jericho
06-30-04, 05:52 PM
Given the turnover in the NFl, this list will probably look silly in December, although it looks fine to me now. I have doubts about Tennessee though. They lost a bunch on that D, and McNair can't carry that offense forever w/o any other weapons.
spankyj
06-30-04, 10:22 PM
I'm just glad that my Lions are staying under the radar. Mooch is gonna right the ship this year!
(Partially meant as a joke, but I can hope for the best. Here's to hoping Harrington brings his A-game this year....)
waporvare
07-01-04, 08:37 AM
Originally posted by Jericho
Given the turnover in the NFl, this list will probably look silly in December, although it looks fine to me now. I have doubts about Tennessee though. They lost a bunch on that D, and McNair can't carry that offense forever w/o any other weapons.
A bunch? Robaire Smith and Jevon Kearse, that's it. Two does not equate bunch.
Of course I'm sure Baltimore will kick ass though, right?
tommyp007
07-01-04, 02:39 PM
no love for Carolina? :hscratch:
Red Dog
07-01-04, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by tommyp007
no love for Carolina? :hscratch:
That was the perplexing part of this. They are clearly, IMO, one of the 2 best teams in the NFC (along with Seattle). Great defense and a solid, ball-control offense featuring 2 very good RBs (contrast in styles btwn Davis and Foster)) and an excellent WR in Steve Smith.
chrisih8u
07-01-04, 02:55 PM
Yeah, I dont see what Carolina did to fall out of the top 10. Bizarre.
brizz
07-01-04, 04:46 PM
especially when you consider Atlanta effectively booted them....now that's wierd. How can a team that had the worst defense in the entire NFL last year be considered better than the Super Bowl runner-up at the start of this year? They didn't exactly completely renovate the secondary and d-line.
chrisih8u
07-01-04, 04:48 PM
Originally posted by brizz
especially when you consider Atlanta effectively booted them....now that's wierd. How can a team that had the worst defense in the entire NFL last year be considered better than the Super Bowl runner-up at the start of this year? They didn't exactly completely renovate the secondary and d-line.
BECAUSE MICHAEL VICK IS THE GREATEST THING SINCE SLICED BREAD!!!!
spankyj
07-01-04, 11:56 PM
How he handles a pass efficient offense this year remains to be seen.
I'll agree he's a great athlete, but his ability to win football games consistently is my big question....
raven56706
07-02-04, 09:07 AM
Sorry but the Giants will do great this year...
brizz
07-02-04, 12:12 PM
:lol: yes....you'll be sorry all right :lol:
sn9ke_eyes
07-02-04, 12:17 PM
The panthers did lose at least 2 of their offensive line starters from last year. Kevin Donnally retired and Jeno James signed with the Dolphins. Jordan Gross moving from right tackle to left tackle.
Still I'd give them the nod over Atlanta or Washington until actual play proves otherwise.
Buy: