List your top 3 US and top 3 UK...today, all time or both
Hiro11
06-09-04, 09:05 AM
US:
1. The Ramones: Rocket to Russia
2. X: Los Angeles
3. The Stooges: Raw Power
UK:
1. The Clash: The Clash
2. The Jam: In the City
3. Buzzcocks: Singles Going Steady (cheating)
Daytripper
06-09-04, 10:16 AM
Would Elastica (may they R.I.P., damn it) be considered punk? If so, their first album should be WAY up on any U.K. list.
wendersfan
06-09-04, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by Daytripper
Would Elastica (may they R.I.P., damn it) be considered punk? If so, their first album should be WAY up on any U.K. list. Only to people who thought Blondie and Talking Heads were punk.
My answers:
US
Ramones - Rocket to Russia
The Dead Boys - Young, Loud, and Snotty
X - Wild Gift
UK
The Sex Pistols - Never Mind the Bollocks
The Clash - The Clash
The Damned - The Damned
Daytripper
06-09-04, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by wendersfan
Only to people who thought Blondie and Talking Heads were punk.
There are many who would say both Blondie and Talking Heads were punk at the beginning of their careers. They played at CBGB's right along with the Ramones my friend.
LiquidSky
06-09-04, 11:06 AM
One of Blondie's early songs "Detroit 442" is very punk.
wendersfan
06-09-04, 11:09 AM
Originally posted by Daytripper
There are many who would say both Blondie and Talking Heads were punk at the beginning of their careers. They played at CBGB's right along with the Ramones my friend. Yes, they played at CBGBs, and were definitely associated with the same movement as The Ramones, Richard Hell, etc. However, I don't think anyone could seriously consider them, or artists like Mink DeVille, Patti Smith, etc. as "punk" in any kind of musical way. They certainly were part of the punk aesthetic in other respects, I'll agree.
Daytripper
06-09-04, 11:11 AM
The Go-Go's were also very punk in the late 70's before they landed a major record deal. They even sometimes wore plastic garbage bags. And Jane Wiedlin went by the name Jane Drano. I also might add they were quite awful. Which even they admit.
LiquidSky
06-09-04, 11:24 AM
The Go-Go's emerged from the Los Angeles punk scene. Belinda went by the name of Dottie Danger...and "played" drums for The Germs for a short period :)
Their sound was definitely sanitized for the masses. I would consider them a pop band. They had some cool/catchy tunes.
Daytripper
06-09-04, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by LiquidSky
The Go-Go's emerged from the Los Angeles punk scene. Belinda went by the name of Dottie Danger...and "played" drums for The Germs for a short period :)
Their sound was definitely sanitized for the masses. I would consider them a pop band. They had some cool/catchy tunes.
Yes, they were definitely a pop band the moment they landed a record deal. But I've heard scores of bootleg tapes and songs from their early days. Not pretty. Some of their gigs were in the basement of a porn theater. They all lived in run down house in one of Hollywood's worst neighborhoods. And apparently these girls were rough. In every sense of the word.
nodeerforamonth
06-09-04, 12:22 PM
US
1. Ramones
2. Johnny Thunders/Heartbreakers
3. Dillinger Four
UK
1. Sex Pistols
2. Buzzcocks
3. Damned
Rivero
06-09-04, 01:24 PM
Originally posted by wendersfan
However, I don't think anyone could seriously consider them, or artists like Mink DeVille, Patti Smith, etc. as "punk" in any kind of musical way.
You would be wrong.
Rivero
06-09-04, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by wendersfan
Only to people who thought Blondie and Talking Heads were punk.
Talking Heads yes. Blondie no.
wendersfan
06-09-04, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by Rivero
You would be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time. :)
Daytripper
06-09-04, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by Rivero
Talking Heads yes. Blondie no.
I would say yes to both. But only very early in their careers.
wendersfan
06-09-04, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by Daytripper
I would say yes to both. But only very early in their careers. Not to be a smartass, but a lot of groups start out their careers sounding like punk bands, then they actually learn how to play their instruments correctly. Some continue to sound that way on purpose, which is fine in my opinion.
fallow
06-09-04, 05:49 PM
I guess we need to clarify whether or not we're talking about a punk aesthetic or a punk sound. If we're talking about a punk aesthetic, then I'd scrap 'em all for
UK: Gang of Four, Entertainment, This Heat, Deceit, Public Image Ltd., Album. US: Pere Ubu, Dub Housing, Television, Marquee Moon, and Mission of Burma, Vs.
fallow
06-09-04, 05:52 PM
Or the whole lot for one album by the Replacements. Or the Velvet Underground.
Suprmallet
06-09-04, 11:10 PM
American:
The Stooges - Funhouse
X - Los Angeles
Richard Hell - The Blank Generation
British:
The Clash - London Calling
The Jam - Setting Sons
Wire - Chairs Missing
Daytripper
06-10-04, 12:18 AM
Originally posted by wendersfan
Not to be a smartass, but a lot of groups start out their careers sounding like punk bands, then they actually learn how to play their instruments correctly. Some continue to sound that way on purpose, which is fine in my opinion.
Punk is much more than sound. It's the lyrics, the attitude, the lifestyle, etc.
funkyryno
06-10-04, 01:58 AM
U.K.
The Clash -- London Calling
Buzzcocks -- Singles Going Steady
Sex Pistols -- Never Mind the Bullocks ...
U.S.
Dead Kennedys -- Fresh Fruit for Rotting Vegetables
Social Distortion -- Somewhere Between Heaven and Hell
Operation Ivy -- Energy
atlantamoi
06-10-04, 08:29 AM
UK Wire "Pink Flag"
Gang of 4 "Entertainment"
Sex Pistols "Never Mind..."
US Ramones "Ramones"
Ramones "Leave Home"
Ramones "Rocket to Russia"
(coming up with US is harder for me... mainly because you can go back and say the Stooges... or even some under-the-radar JOY like The Monks... crap, just say the Ramones and be done with it!)
wendersfan
06-10-04, 09:03 AM
Originally posted by Daytripper
Punk is much more than sound. It's the lyrics, the attitude, the lifestyle, etc. Then can you tell me what this group of gentlemen:
The lyrical concerns were very different, the image they projected was very different, etc? Now, if you can find a common lyrical strain between "Pretty Vacant", "Janie Jones", "What Do I Get", "Chinese Rocks", "Blitzkrieg Bop", and "Neat Neat Neat", then more power to you. I can't.
I agree that there's more to punk than just the music, but I think you're placing too much importance on the image. Of course, that's what the media latched on to post '77, and that's what a lot of people think of when they think of 'punk'.
Flashback
06-10-04, 09:19 AM
The Patti Smith Group will always be punk to me.
Kaiser Soze
06-10-04, 10:16 AM
This is tough, but I'll do my best to choose:
U.S.
Descendents - Milo Goes To College
Fugazi - Repeater
Operation Ivy - Energy
U.K.
Stiff Little Fingers - Nobody's Heroes
The Damned - Damned Damned Damned
The Jam - In The City
gameboycolor
06-10-04, 10:23 AM
"Punk" nowadays means a certain sound. However, in the older days, (especially in the U.S. scene) it meant more of an aesthetic.
Personally, I think that the aesthetics of old-school punk (DIY, do your own thing musically, etc.) are far more important to music nowadays than the sound (which, I admit, I also enjoy.) That's why I'll argue to anyone that bands like R.E.M., Blondie, Johnny Cash and just about 1980's indie-rock band are far more punk than just about any of the "punk" bands crawling out of the woodworks nowadays.
But I digress...
UK -
1. The Clash - London Calling
2. Sex Pistols - Never Mind The Bullocks
3. The Clash - The Clash
US -
1. Velvet Underground - Velvet Underground and Nico
2. Ramones - Ramones
3. Television - Marquee Moon
Daytripper
06-10-04, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by wendersfan
I agree that there's more to punk than just the music, but I think you're placing too much importance on the image. Of course, that's what the media latched on to post '77, and that's what a lot of people think of when they think of 'punk'.
No, that's not what I'm saying at all. Of course it's not just about image. But it's not just about how fast you play your guitar or how loud the music is either. I believe we're on the same page more than you think.
wendersfan
06-10-04, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by Daytripper
No, that's not what I'm saying at all. Of course it's not just about image. But it's not just about how fast you play your guitar or how loud the music is either. I believe we're on the same page more than you think. Probably. I think I just wanted an excuse to do an image search for The Jam and The Buzzcocks on the company dime. :)
'Punk' has to be first and foremost about the music, but the aesthetic, the attitude, and everything else tends to follow as well. There's hardly been a movement in pop music since their was pop music that didn't have a fashion and lifestyle trend associated with it. This is more a Brit phenomenon (mods, rockers, Teddy boys, etc.) than an American one, but it's true over here, too. Still, it's hard to reconcile the connection between Patti Smith's "Piss Factory" and Husker Du's "Turn On the News" unless you know about everything that happened in between. If not, the two seem to have very little in common.
Can you tell I've actually given this some thought? ;)
Daytripper
06-10-04, 12:57 PM
I've got a question for you.....would you consider early Sonic Youth and Siouxsie and the Banshees punk?
wendersfan
06-10-04, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by Daytripper
I've got a question for you.....would you consider early Sonic Youth and Siouxsie and the Banshees punk? Oh, hell yeah. Any band who had Sid Viscious play drums for them on their opening gig is definitely punk...
dick_grayson
06-10-04, 01:17 PM
US:
Bad Brains - Rock For Light
Descendents - I Don't Want To Grow Up
Dag Nasty - Wig Out at Denkos
Black Flag - Damaged
Misfits - Walk Among Us
The Ramones - Pleasant Dreams
UK:
Buzzcocks - Love Bites
The Damned - Damned Damned Damned
Sex Pistols - Nevermind the Bullocks....
The Clash - London Calling
fallow
06-10-04, 01:22 PM
Is No-Wave considered Punk? (Aesthetically, yes. Politically, yes & no. Sonically and Structurally, yes & no.) How you regard No-Wave would determine whether or not Sonic Youth was punk, IMO.
Daytripper
06-10-04, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by fallow
Is No-Wave considered Punk? (Aesthetically, yes. Politically, yes & no. Sonically and Structurally, yes & no.) How you regard No-Wave would determine whether or not Sonic Youth was punk, IMO.
Daytripper <===== confused. What is "no-wave"?
Flashback
06-10-04, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by fallow
Is No-Wave considered Punk? (Aesthetically, yes. Politically, yes & no. Sonically and Structurally, yes & no.) How you regard No-Wave would determine whether or not Sonic Youth was punk, IMO.
Absolutely-just a subcatagory....Lydia Lunch was a blast.
As far as no-wave (and I could be wrong) it was an anti stance against new-wave. EDIT: Guess I was wrong hehehe...I do remember seeing some video with Lydia and Henry Rollins running through a park and George (forgot last name of Foetus) pulling his pud...it was strange to say the least. Does anyone know this?
fallow
06-10-04, 04:33 PM
I think no-wave pre-dated new-wave. Or at least the heyday.
No-wave was a late 70s-early 80s underground NYC loft art scene. Many of the artists fused disco, punk, and noise, but none of these were necessarily a staple of the style. For example, Glenn Branca, who gave Lee Ranaldo & Thurston Moore (now of Sonic Youth) their start, more or less started what is known today as post-rock-- lots of guitars in a weirdly tuned and noisy orchestra.* His 1981 album, The Ascenscion (recently re-issued along with 1980's Lesson no. 1 on Acute Records), still makes most post-rock albums of today pale.
Brian Eno compiled No New York, a treasured and contentious collection, in 1978. While a gem, the compilation also makes no-wave appear to be the work of four bands (James Chance & the Contortions, Teenage Jesus & the Jerks, Mars, and DNA), all from the East Village. Supposedly these bands cozied up to Eno and convinced them to leave West Village bands, such as Glenn Branca's Theoretical Girls, off of the album. Many consider Eno to be a bastard because of this, but a used copy of the original record could probably sell for upwards of $100.
Some of the most prominent artists in the scene are/were: The Contortions w/ James Chance (whose 1979 album, Buy the Contortions, is one of my all-time favorites), Lydia Lunch (of Teenage Jesus and the Jerks), Arto Lindsay (of DNA and Ambitious Lovers), Glenn Branca (of Theoretical Girls), The Bush Tetras, Rhys Chatham, and Lizzy Mercier Descloux (another one of my favorites and sadly, recently deceased).
Soul Jazz along with ZE Records put out very strong collections from some of the lesser known acts: New York Noise (Soul Jazz) and Mutant Disco 2xCD (ZE). As I said earlier, some of Glenn Branca's albums have been re-issued, Rhino put out a James Chance boxset, Rhys Chatham has a boxset, and DNA is getting the retrospective treatment from No More Records. ZE Records has also re-issued some records by Was (Not Was), Lizzy Mercier Descloux, and James Chance on 180 gram vinyl.
I think all of that is accurate. If not, I'm sure that Yancey or Pikul could correct me.
Fun fact: Branca wrote a piece for 100 guitars that was either never performed or performed at the WTC 2 months to the day before 9/11. (I think I read the latter in an interview a year ago but I'm not positive.)
Suprmallet
06-10-04, 07:47 PM
The punk aesthetic and the experimental aesthetic are generally the same, it's just that punk draws more on traditional rock techniques than experimental. Thus, no-wave can be considered both experimental and punk.
Sonic Youth, though, definitely had a punk period.
eton rifles
06-10-04, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by fallow
I guess we need to clarify whether or not we're talking about a punk aesthetic or a punk sound. If we're talking about a punk aesthetic, then I'd scrap 'em all for
UK: Gang of Four, Entertainment, This Heat, Deceit, Public Image Ltd., Album. US: Pere Ubu, Dub Housing, Television, Marquee Moon, and Mission of Burma, Vs.
WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT HERE IS WHAT IS KNOWN AS POST-PUNK. It has the attitude of punk but is more artistic. i like it a lot
fallow
06-11-04, 09:39 AM
I know. Notice that I said "if we're talking about the punk aesthetic, then..."
And I agree. I'd take nearly any post-punk album over a punk album any day.
Burnt Alive
06-12-04, 12:47 AM
US:
Black Flag - The First Four Years
Red Rockers - Condition Red
X - Under The Big Black Sun
UK:
999 - Seperates
The Clash - Give 'Em Enough Rope
The Adverts - Crossing The Red Sea
Mr. M
06-12-04, 01:02 AM
US:
New York Dolls - New York Dolls
Black Flag - Damaged
Dead Kennedys - Fresh Fruit
UK:
The Clash - The Clash
Sex Pistols - Nevermind
The Clash - London Calling
whynotsmile
06-13-04, 01:12 AM
the greatest punk band of all time was the dead kennedys. im not a fan of punk, but they are one of my favorite bands. hilarious, hard hitting and jello has the best voice ever.
Buy: