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Angel - 04/21/04

Old 04-21-04, 06:54 PM
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Angel - 04/21/04

"Origin", Episode #518.

Spoiler:
Angel will not help parents seeking help from Wolfram & Hart about their son's supernatural abilities when he realizes that the boy is actually his son.


Cast: David Boreanaz, Alexis Denisof, J. August Richards, Amy Acker, Andy Hallett, James Marsters, Vincent Kartheiser, Mercedes McNab.
Director(s): Terrence O'Hara.
Producer(s): Joss Whedon, Gail Berman, Fran Rubel Kuzui, Kaz Kuzui, Sandy Gallin, David Greenwalt.
Writer(s): Drew Goddard.

Original Airdate: April 21, 2004.
Old 04-21-04, 08:24 PM
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wonder who Wes called, my picture went black for a while there...
Old 04-21-04, 08:32 PM
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LOL @ "I've always a thing for older women..."
Old 04-21-04, 09:03 PM
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Good episode.

Angel gets to see his son, even though Connor chooses his other family after dispatching Sahjohn.

Spike getting his ass handed to him by Illyria in the name of research was fun stuff.

Wes gettting caught back up with the whole kidnapper/prophecy/Connor subplot was bittersweet. Denisof is doing some good acting, I only see Wes when he's on screen.

Gunn's staying strong, in spite of being placed on the backburner.

Jane still cracks me up in his small bits of interaction with Angel.
Old 04-21-04, 09:07 PM
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Great episode. Hope this show goes out on top. It's looking that way.
Old 04-21-04, 09:11 PM
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Excellent episode. This is what season 5 should have been. Such a shame there's only four more left.
Old 04-21-04, 09:12 PM
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Really thought this episode was excellent.

Glad Connor finally has learned the responsibility of being a family member. Thought his choice was in keeping with his character and am really glad he honored his "father" with his parting comments.

Loved Spike doing research on Illyria. "Hands off the clipboard".
Old 04-21-04, 09:22 PM
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Originally posted by cdoug57
Really thought this episode was excellent.

Glad Connor finally has learned the responsibility of being a family member. Thought his choice was in keeping with his character and am really glad he honored his "father" with his parting comments.

Loved Spike doing research on Illyria. "Hands off the clipboard".
This is what gets me, does Connor know or was he not affected by that barrier that was keeping him from seeing Angel. I'm gonna have to watch this episode a few times to see if I can figure things out.
Old 04-21-04, 09:36 PM
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I think it's obvious that Connor knows. He through in the little comments about how he's seen worse then Veil and how he learned about taking care of family from his father.
Old 04-21-04, 09:52 PM
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Good episode. We need more hotties on this show though. Bring back Wolf Chick and Gwen. mmmmmmmm
Old 04-21-04, 09:54 PM
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Originally posted by Timber
I think it's obvious that Connor knows. He through in the little comments about how he's seen worse then Veil and how he learned about taking care of family from his father.
You know, you're right. After thinking about it a little more and remembering the facial expression Angel made at the end Connor does remember. I'm surprised he didn't flip about what happened.
Old 04-21-04, 11:21 PM
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Originally posted by Kaervak
You know, you're right. After thinking about it a little more and remembering the facial expression Angel made at the end Connor does remember. I'm surprised he didn't flip about what happened.
Old Connor would have flipped out, but old Connor's memories were almost 100% from a hell dimension. At least half of new Connor's memories were from his ideal family life... I'd expect him to better better adjusted in this incarnation than the last one.
Old 04-22-04, 01:01 AM
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Definitely an excellent episode in my book. I can't wait to see how they finish up thise season. I just love that blue hair.
Old 04-22-04, 02:47 AM
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Very good episode

The Spike/Illyria stuff was good

Conner's line about older women was funny
"They were supposed to fix that"

It'll be interesting to see how Wes handles everything. He's trying to get over the death of Fred and now he has his memories of kidnapping Conner to deal with.
Old 04-22-04, 06:08 AM
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Great episode. Much better use of "Fred" and Wes this week.

I wonder if we'll find out what the offer to Gunn was?
Old 04-22-04, 07:22 AM
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Originally posted by CaptainMarvel
Old Connor would have flipped out, but old Connor's memories were almost 100% from a hell dimension. At least half of new Connor's memories were from his ideal family life... I'd expect him to better better adjusted in this incarnation than the last one.
That's how it seemed to me, too. From what Wesley was saying, it sounded like they now have two sets of memories from the same time period. It's possible that the fake ones will fade eventually, but Wesley, Illyria, and maybe Connor currently have the two sets.

Of course, if the fake ones do fade eventually, will that mean that Connor will revert to how he was? Could be interesting to see if they pick it back up.
Old 04-22-04, 07:39 AM
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Wes just may be one of the most tortured characters in tv history. He was happy, like truly happy, for about half an episode this season. Homeboy needs a hug in the worst way. I'm surprised Angel wasn't angrier about Wes betraying him...again(well maybe betray is a harsh word, not trusting him?). Maybe it was because Wes' actions ultimately saved Connor's life?

I gotta give credit to Vincent too, he really sold the "all american boy" thing to the fullest. He's a pretty good actor.

I love me some Gwen and Wolfgirl seems like she could have turned into a pretty good character(and nice addition to the cast), but part of me hopes they both stay away(well Wolfgirl more so than Gwen, I think she could be a nice addition to one more episode). I really like the focus to be on the core group though, even though they're so changed now.

I really love that, the permanent change these characters have gone through. Go back to Wes' debut on Buffy and look at him now...its incredible. What's even more amazing is that its totally believable. Outside of B5, I've never seen a show who's characters have transformed so dramatically. The Buffyverse was/is the bomb yo.

edited to give props to Chordelia's transformations as well.

Last edited by boredsilly; 04-22-04 at 07:45 AM.
Old 04-22-04, 08:11 AM
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I really loved this episode. The humor was sprinkled throughout and Vincent Kartheiser was great doing his Boreanaz impression - a perfect "little" Angel.

When the show is this good, it only makes me sad and disappointed that a) the WB stomped on the creativity of this show so much that arcs like we're used to could never florish and b) that they cancelled a show that was headed somewhere. But woo-hoo, Charmed is still on.
Old 04-22-04, 09:28 AM
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Loved this episode. It was great to see Sashan finally get what was coming to him. I feel kind of bad for him though, all of that trouble just to play right into the hands of his death prophecy.
Old 04-22-04, 09:41 AM
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I do think that the final season of Angel is better than Buffy's final season in terms of pacing and interesting twists without the stupid "rally the troops" speeches from Buffy in her final season.
Old 04-22-04, 10:36 AM
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Originally posted by Patman
I do think that the final season of Angel is better than Buffy's final season in terms of pacing and interesting twists without the stupid "rally the troops" speeches from Buffy in her final season.


Buffy seemed to be done, like a good portion of the writers and actors were burned out on doing the show. Angel doesn't and that is what makes it's cancellation way more frustrating.
Old 04-22-04, 10:46 AM
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Surprised Wes never mentioned who that girl was, meaning Cordy, during the S3 flashback, but I guess, it didn't matter.

I liked how Adam Baldwin has asserted himself within the universe; I was scared that "Jane" would be way out of place. I liked how he said, "You won't be having sex with me" in reference to Eve and Angel hump in the Halloween episode.

B+ from me. Connor was always a character that was ho-hum to me, sometimes interesting sometimes irritating, but this episode he was highly likable.

18 down, 4 more to go.
Old 04-22-04, 10:46 AM
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Originally posted by Patman
I do think that the final season of Angel is better than Buffy's final season in terms of pacing and interesting twists without the stupid "rally the troops" speeches from Buffy in her final season.
Oh yeah. The final season of Buffy was pretty much a huge mess. There were a few ok episodes here and there, but there were just way too many things wrong with the season. Too many dropped plotlines, glaring inconsistencies, and the biggest waste of a potentially cool villian ever.
Old 04-22-04, 12:10 PM
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I was pretty pleased with the epsidoe too.

Spike - As usual, funny. However, I kinda got the feeling they were trying to force the funny. Plus, is it me or did Marster's accent seem like it was slipping?!

Illyria - Blech. I thought they were giong to have her take out Urn boy.

Gunn - Great to seem him snatch back the trinket and take the whoopin'. I don't think the point was to find out what the W&H offer was, but rather to show that he learned from his lesson with Fred. He knew there would be some repercussions so he told him to piss off. Interesting though though, is what if W&H were counting on this...

Harmony - Nice outfit.

Wes - I know he's been through a lot, but his actions were on the pathetic side. I really expected better from him. Angel's right - "Fred's dead and you're alive. So act like it." He's not even the Wes we know - badass, nor geeky.

Connor - I was plesantly surprised. My stomach turned when I saw he was giong to be back on. But the "all american boy" worked out pretty well. I did think he turned once the cube was dropped and his face changed. Right there I was about to be mad fedup. I really did have a hard time telling if he knew for sure, or if they were just framing his lines in the end to make it appear that he got, at least some, of his memories back. I think if we had of seen his face while his back was to Angel in the fight room we might have a better understand.

Angel - The first half of the ep he was acting very badass and more his old self - "I said, I'll take care of it." (storming off). However, when Wes had the cube he seemed almost helpless. I suppose it was because Illyeria was there and he didn't think he could take her, but I would have though he would have tried.

All in all I thought it was a pretty good episode. I am somewhat worried at how all this is giong to turn out. I mean, only 4 eps left and we don't really have a big bad - though I suppose it's W&M. There's so much hinting and intrigue, yet there doesn't seem to be anything lurking around the corner. I do trust in Joss though, and I'm sure I won't be let down in the end.
Old 04-22-04, 06:00 PM
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Originally posted by xVladx
From what Wesley was saying, it sounded like they now have two sets of memories from the same time period. It's possible that the fake ones will fade eventually, but Wesley, Illyria, and maybe Connor currently have the two sets.
The best part of this episode was the almost throw-away conversation about who we are, as defined by our memories. Connor has both memories and his new ones have allowed him to learn the lessons from the old ones.

Of course, if the fake ones do fade eventually, will that mean that Connor will revert to how he was? Could be interesting to see if they pick it back up.
With only 4 episodes left I doubt we'll see Connor again. Maybe in the final one. Or we can hope for those tv movies they keep talking about.

I'm glad Ilyria is making progress and I almost wonder if she'll be a permanent part of the team - she might have a power downgrade to keep things balanced.

BTW, who was that in the Urn - if he's appeared in a previous episode, can someone refresh my memory?

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