Kill Bill Vols. 1 And 2, Your Opinions.....One Movie, More Oscar Recognition?

[nightmaster]

While reading and adding to the KB threads going here this crossed my mind. There would definitely have been more content in one fused movie rather than two in order to, if nothing else, garner Uma an Oscar nod last year, bearing in mind I hope she receives one this year for 2 alone regardless. She did get a Golden Globe nom for one half of the story. I also think the entire story in one sitting would make for a very likely Oscar nom for QT as well; again, I would love to see a QT Oscar nod for 2 alone, but the content of the two halves together would have made the premise even more likely to happen.

[Suprmallet]

Unfortunately, I think the whole kung-fu aspect of it is going to make a lot of academy voters dismiss this film out of hand, even though by all rights Uma and Carradine should have oscar nominations.

[PalmerJoss]

I have to agree that David Carradine should see an Oscar nom, as should Uma. Both did incredible work, right up there with the best of their careers.

However, I do have to say that if a lot of the "fat" had been trimmed from volumes 1 and 2 and it had been one movie, then it might stand a better chance at the oscars. However, I do agree with Suprmallet that the kung-fu will probably hurt the film as most academy voters won't take the film seriously because of it.

[QuiGonJosh]

F**k the Oscars! Who gives a s**t what those jackass voters think? I sure dont! These are loved by many and it shows!

[whynotsmile]

best picture
best screenplay
best actress
best actor
best cinematography
best director
best sound
best sound editing
best score

[Sessa17]

While I LOATHE the Oscars & everything they now stand for, Uma Thurman should LITERALLY win every single acting award there is all year long for her role in this movie. The range of emotions she portrays in both volumes is absolutely astounding, she also has a very difficult type of humor to portray at times, a very dry, subtle humor that is extremely hard to pull off. Add the fact that she was a female lead as cool as Clint Eastwood in an action movie, is pretty much something that has never been done to such perfection before. She had to learn martial arts, sword training, & do most of her own stunts, learn Japanese, I mean I find it absolutely astounding what went into her role & all of this after just being pregnant, I truly believe film will not have a better performance all year.

[Groucho]

Originally posted by Suprmallet
Unfortunately, I think the whole kung-fu aspect of it is going to make a lot of academy voters dismiss this film out of handLike they did to Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon?

[Sessa17]

Originally posted by Suprmallet
Unfortunately, I think the whole kung-fu aspect of it is going to make a lot of academy voters dismiss this film out of hand, even though by all rights Uma and Carradine should have oscar nominations.

I don't think the Kung Fu aspects will do that at all. I think the violence & early in the year release will take care of that.

[Groucho]

Originally posted by Sessa17
I don't think the Kung Fu aspects will do that at all. I think the violence & early in the year release will take care of that. Like Silence of the Lambs?

[nemein]

Actually considering my opinion of the Oscars and of these movies (or Tarantino's wet dream goregasam as I call them) I think it would be fitting if he swept the Oscars :eyebrow:

Overall though I would be surprised if it was nominated, much less won. Either way though I really don't care about the Oscars and can't say I care much for Tarantino or Kill Bill. In fact I think I like Timeline better -ptth-

[Sessa17]

Originally posted by Groucho
Like Silence of the Lambs?

No, not like Silence of the Lambs at all. The amount of blood & profanity in Kill Bill makes Silence of the Lambs look like a young children's Saturday morning cartoon.

[RichC2]

Berserk aired at 1:55 am, saturday mornings.

http://garnet.acns.fsu.edu/~rdc03/kbv000.JPG

just being a jackass. :D

-Rich

[fumanstan]

Haven't seen Vol. 2 yet, but from Vol. 1 i don't see anything that should have been nominated for the Oscars. I don't expect Vol. 2 to be drastically different.

[Groucho]

Originally posted by Sessa17
The amount of blood & profanity in Kill Bill makes Silence of the Lambs look like a young children's Saturday morning cartoon. Not in volume 2, which is the film that'll actually be up for Oscar contention.Originally posted by fumanstan
Haven't seen Vol. 2 yet, but from Vol. 1 i don't see anything that should have been nominated for the Oscars. I don't expect Vol. 2 to be drastically different. Vol. 2 is, in fact, drastically different from Vol. 1 in several ways.

[caiman]

Originally posted by fumanstan
Haven't seen Vol. 2 yet, but from Vol. 1 i don't see anything that should have been nominated for the Oscars. I don't expect Vol. 2 to be drastically different.

Then you would be dead wrong.

[Suprmallet]

Originally posted by Groucho
Like they did to Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon?

I knew someone was going to bring this up. Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon is not like Kill Bill at all. Although the characters do some amazing things in Kill Bill (mostly in the House of Blue Leaves and the Mai Pei/Beatrix fight), it's not as outlandish as in Crouching Tiger. Not as "awe inspiring." Also, the violence in either Kill Bill movie is a thousand times more gory than in Crouching Tiger.

Frankly, I didn't think Crouching Tiger was that great. I felt the story dragged when they lingered on it, the characters weren't fleshed out enough, and that only left the fights, which got monotonous by the end. Kill Bill, on the other hand, had a fascinating story, strong characters, and fights that took your breath away because you cared about who was going to win, not because they were running around on water.

I think if any film was going to see Oscar success like Crouching Tiger, it would be when Hero gets released eventually by Miramax. And Hero would actually deserve it. Kill Bill, on the other hand, will most likely be ignored or even scorned by academy voters. Why? Because Crouching Tiger was trying to be art. Kill Bill is trying to be schlock, but being a Tarantino film, also manages to be art.

[Groucho]

Originally posted by Suprmallet
Kill Bill is trying to be schlock, but being a Tarantino film, also manages to be art. Like Pulp Fiction?

[Suprmallet]

Originally posted by Groucho
Like Pulp Fiction?

Pulp Fiction was a phenomenon. No one had seen anything quite like it. Kill Bill didn't have the same impact.

But hey, I could be wrong. Kill Bill could sweep at the oscars and no one would be happier than I would be. My prediction, however, is that it won't.

[nemein]

Kill Bill, on the other hand, had a fascinating story, strong characters, and fights that took your breath away because you cared about who was going to win, not because they were running around on water.

I couldn't disagree more. I found the Kill Bill story to be a basic revenge story nothing more interesting than that. Basically the plot is there just to link the fights together IMHO. I'm not sure what you mean by "strong" characters since there is very little character development (just a few blips of background info to explain who everyone is), everyone pretty much finishes where they started personality wise (if they aren't dead ;)). The fights may have taken my breath away if I hadn't gotten sick of such fights in HK cinema a LONG time ago. The "fountains o' blood" thing just doesn't do anything for me personally. I also disagree w/ the cared about who won since there was no development of the main character I personally didn't care if they chopped her into little bits (of course since that was vol1 and vol2 was on the way we all knew that was unlikely ;)).

[fumanstan]

Originally posted by caiman
Then you would be dead wrong.

Somehow i doubt Uma magically improved her acting inbetween volumes.

[caiman]

Originally posted by fumanstan
Somehow i doubt Uma magically improved her acting inbetween volumes.

It's not about an improvement; it's the way the story of vol 2 gives her room to let her talent show. There are a couple truly emotional scenes in vol 2 involving Uma, and she really knocks it out of the park. There was nothing like that in vol 1. I really think you'll be eating your words once you see vol 2.

[Suprmallet]

Originally posted by nemein
I couldn't disagree more. I found the Kill Bill story to be a basic revenge story nothing more interesting than that. Basically the plot is there just to link the fights together IMHO. I'm not sure what you mean by "strong" characters since there is very little character development (just a few blips of background info to explain who everyone is), everyone pretty much finishes where they started personality wise (if they aren't dead ;)). The fights may have taken my breath away if I hadn't gotten sick of such fights in HK cinema a LONG time ago. The "fountains o' blood" thing just doesn't do anything for me personally. I also disagree w/ the cared about who won since there was no development of the main character I personally didn't care if they chopped her into little bits (of course since that was vol1 and vol2 was on the way we all knew that was unlikely ;)).

But what did you think of Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon?

[nemein]

But what did you think of Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon?

To be honest it's been so long since I've seen it I don't recall much of it. Chow Yun-Fat is one of my fav actors so on that fact alone I remember liking/enjoying it, although I didn't care for the "wire-fu" there either (I'm not a big fan of that type of fighting/action). I think more time was spent on character development giving the main characters a more rounded out "personality" and motivation for taking the actions they did beyond simple revenge (which is all Kill Bill seemed to have to offer, everyone who was given some sort of background story was doing what they did because someone in their past wronged them).

[Shannon Nutt]

Carradine deserves an Oscar nomination...he carried Vol. 2 and was fantastic in it. I don't see any other nominations, though.

[Lou Sytsma]

I agree with Suprmallet - KB2 will not generate any Oscar noms in the major awards.

Too violent and unrealistic and heavily drenched in genres that are looked down upon by the Academy.

This is B movie stuff folks. Enthusiasm is fine but let's keep some perspective here.

[Drop]

Just because this is "B movie stuff" does not mean there aren't truly great perfomances in this film. There is not a shred of bad acting in this movie, hell not even passable acting, it's all pretty fantastic. Just because this movie may not be up the Academy's alley, does not mean it doesn't deserve recognition for it's acting.

Personally I could care less about the Oscars, but if they can help a movie get more recognition (not like Kill Bill needs its) then I am for that.

But, if I had to predict what it'll get nominated for, I really can't think of a thing. I would personally nominate Uma and Carradine, as well as Quentin for directing and Menke for editing.

[nemein]

There is not a shred of bad acting in this movie, hell not even passable acting, it's all pretty fantastic.

If the 2nd one is like the 1st one I disagree. In fact there was hardly any acting at all, it was just moving from one fight sequence to the next. Pulp Fiction (another movie I don't really care for) had better acting than Kill Bill IMHO. What acting there was was fine for the movie itself but as Lou Sytsma said let's keep some perspective here. Rating the acting as fantastic is a bit over-the-top (which I guess it does fit the movie though ;)) IMHO.

[das Monkey]

Some of you might want to see the second film before posting. There are some silly comments in here.*

As to the question at hand, I actually think splitting the film in this way makes it more likely to garner some nods. Most of the qualities that will get noticed by the Academy fall in the second film. While it's an oversimplification, it will be easier for them to label the first as a revenge bloodfest while remembering the second for all the character development and yes <b>fantastic</b>, probably even spectacular, performances from Thurman and Carradine. Granted it's very early in the year, but even if you don't consider anything from the first film, Uma has to be the frontrunner for Best Actress, and it's hard to imagine there will be 5 performances better than hers. I doubt Carradine's work will hold up as well over the coming months, but even so, he deserves some nods from some of the awards. I've always liked his work, but he completely floored me with how great his performance was.

das

* I'm not talking about the informed opinions

[Sessa17]

Originally posted by nemein
If the 2nd one is like the 1st one I disagree. In fact there was hardly any acting at all, it was just moving from one fight sequence to the next.

I don't know, you must have seen a different first volume than I did. The one I saw had Uma Thurman pull off one of the greatest female leads I've ever seen. For a female, to carry the load of a Clint Eastwood type bad-ass that oozes cool in an action movie is extremely rare & hard to pull off. She showed a great range of emotion the scene where she wakes up out of the coma to realize her child is gone is extremely powerful) & the second volume expands much much more on the range of her acting. The role she played in both movies, I just don't think people realize how hard it is for a female to pull it off believably, I can't picture many, if any tha could have done what Uma did.

[nemein]

Originally posted by Sessa17
I don't know, you must have seen a different first volume than I did .... I can't picture many, if any tha could have done what Uma did.

Nope saw the same picture just have different impressions of it. I agree Uma had the bad-ass thing going but I don't agree w/ the range of emotions thing. Maybe I missed it but for the most part she started pissed and stayed pissed. A single scene of going from one emotion to another does not display a "range of emotion" to me. WRT who else could have done it/pulled it off better, I still think given the character there are probably some who could have done an adequate job (provided they could handle the physical part). Bottom line is I though it was an ok movie but certainly not the end-all be-all action movie for me. That's the fun of movies though, some people like what other people don't :D

[MasterCXtreme]

Some nominatious are in order, but I just can't see Kill Bill V2 being a big winner at the oscars. I did LOVE the movie though, 10/10 in my book; but i'd be suprised if it does get recognized.

[cultshock]

Some of you might want to see the second film before posting. There are some silly comments in here.*

:up: If you are basing what you think you will see in Vol 2 on what you've seen in Vol 1, you are way off.

I would LOVE to see this film garner a bunch of well deserved nominations, especially for Thurman, Carradine and Tarantino, but I really can't see it happening. It's too much of a genre film, and it's way too early in the year (unless everything else that comes out this year sucks, and seeing how Hollywood is lately, I guess thats possible). I really hope I'm wrong, and the film gets some recognition though.

[nemein]

For me, for right now I'm basing it more on my general dislike of QT movies (KB1 didn't help change that) and MrCranky's review. The reviewer I've found myself mostly in agreement w/, occasionally though we differ as he gave KB1 only 2 bombs (KB2 got 4)

Here's the primer of the review though
http://www.mrcranky.com/movies/killbill2.html
Given Tarantino's worship of Uma Thurman, the entire foray may be the most overblown attempt to get into a woman's pants since the invasion of Troy.

:lol:

[Rivero]

I think the little girl that played B.B. should be nominated for a Razzie. Jesus, was she annoying. The worst kind of "cutesy" kid you always see in movies like Kindergarten Cop, plus her saying "Mommy. Mommy. Mommy" about two dozen times in the five minutes that she's in it. A real hindrance to the Final Chapter.

[das Monkey]

• nemein •

Here's the primer of the review though

Given Tarantino's worship of Uma Thurman, the entire foray may be the most overblown attempt to get into a woman's pants since the invasion of Troy.
:lol: That's pretty funny.

However, it saddens me that you'd identify with the joker who wrote this review. Whether you like or dislike the film, to call the wedding rehearsal pointless is an almost moronic assertion (unless a forum member made it, in which case, I respectfully disagree ;)). Clearly the reviewer has no desire or appreciation for character development, and this is underscored by his criticism that there aren't enough fight sequences. And is that the whole review? If so, it's dreadfully lacking in substance. Take out the whiney metaphors (of which there are way too many) and obvious plot summary, and there's barely a paragraph worth of "review." For a guy who so heavily criticizes a lack of content in Tarantino's writing, I'd like to share a little story about stones and glass houses, as his review itself makes a better analogy than his history paper. A truly terrible review, and if you can believe me, that belief has little to do with his expressed opinion, and almost everything to do with how poorly he expressed it.

That being said, if you gain one thing from his thin critique, it's that <b>Vol 2</b> is very different from <b>Vol 1</b>, and as such, basing and opinion of one on the other is like [insert space-filling Mr. Cranky simile].

You're a pretty sharp guy. See the movie and form your own opinion. You may indeed hate it after seeing it, but it saddens me to think anyone would form an opinion based on the link you provided. The guy's an obvious "hater" ... and newsflash to him: a hater is every bit as bad as the "fanboys" he mocks. Or to use an analogy you might appreciate: he's the Michael Moore to his Ann Coulter. ;)

das

[Drop]

Hmm, I absolutely thought that BB was perfect. She was a little kid, she was that part to a tee. Without her, that whole last chapter would've fallen apart. She didn't knock my socks off with the acting, but she was a four year old, they can be annoying or cute depending on who you are. I thought she was real cute. She was Bill's and Beatrix's daughter.

[nemein]

You're a pretty sharp guy. See the movie and form your own opinion. You may indeed hate it after seeing it, but it saddens me to think anyone would form an opinion based on the link you provided.

I eventually will when it comes to DVD. There are few movies that are worth the hassle of going to theater anymore ;)

BTW I just use MrCranky to garner the overall view of the film. I read the reviews because they are usually amusing but the ranking of the movies is what I find usually matches my tastes (regardless of the text of the review[1]). Like I said there are some I disagree w/... If this is the first review you've read by him take a look at some of the other ones before you judge him. He's not the best reviewer in the world but he certainly has earned his name ;)

[1] Just gave it a quick look and I've seen about 80 of the movies on the rental page (http://www.mrcranky.com/rentals.html) of those I agree w/ 55, 15 I would have given a lower ranking and 10 I would have given a higher ranking. The majority of those are usually within a "bomb" too. The only two that are grossly different are The Hulk and Matrix: Reloaded (both got 1 bomb I would have given them atleast 4).

[Drop]

Originally posted by nemein
There are few movies that are worth the hassle of going to theater anymore ;)

That I just plain old disagree with. I think there are plenty of movies worth the hassle (not a hassle for me, though) of seeing, most benefit from the public experience and the size of the screen. Kill Bill Vol. 2 is one of the best examples of this. But the theatre experience is something very different for each person, and that's mine.

[Marvdog]

A couple of thoughts.. WHY was the brides name not revealed until near the end of the movie?

on that note, her name is BEATRIX, and in Vol 1 Lucy Lius character says "silly rabbit TRIX are for kids" is this of any coincidence?

[Suprmallet]

Both of these issues are addressed in the "Kill Bill Vol. 2 thoughts" thread.

http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=356387