Does Griffey Jr. belong in the Hall?

[Landoversnoop]

There was a story done on SportsCenter either today or yesterday about Griffey and his continued injuries. One of the last questions that was asked of him was, "Do you belong in the Hall of Fame." (or something to that affect)

I questioned whether or not he should be until I started hearing some of his stats they threw out, specifically his home run stats and how fast he reached some homerun milestones.

I still can't decide, though.

Anybody got an argument?

[Roto]

If he had a career ending injury today? Yes, he not only belongs there, he'd probably get in pretty easily. He's only about 20 homeruns away from 500, which up until just these last few years was considered a free pass into the Hall. At 34 or however old he is now I still think he will get to 600 without a problem even if he has a few more injuries.

He also had somewhere around a dozen consecutive gold gloves at centerfield. He may have the record, I'm not sure, but he's up there.

[neiname]

No f'ing way if his career ended today.

[POWERBOMB]

I'm still pissed off that some Cowboys didn't make it into the NFL Hall a few months back.

If this is decided by the so called "experts" then who knows if he will get in. Personally, he is a recognizable name even to the laymen and therefore should go into the hall. I know that sounds bad, but if you put a bunch of no-names into the Hall how many people would go to visit?

[twikoff]

after dominating an entire decade
of course, no doubt about it

[Aldarion]

I'd put him in if his career ended today. He was a brilliant player throughout the entire 90s, both on offense and on defense. I don't think that he would be a first ballot selection though.

Even right now, he's a decent player when healthy, so I think he'll be a shoo-in once his career ends.

[DarkElf]

He doesn't have the longevity (yet), but he was a pretty amazing player throughout the entire 90s, so that was a nice long run, and I think that will be enough. Plus, people just like Griffey (as opposed to someone like, oh, Canseco), and that will help too.

But I don't think he's done by any means, and though he will probably never hit like he did before, he will still have a few more good seasons, and that will be enough to make him a lock.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

BTW, here are Griffey's Top 10 comps of similar batters (*=HOFer):

* Duke Snider
Sammy Sosa
Juan Gonzalez
Gary Sheffield
Jose Canseco
Jeff Bagwell
* Willie Stargell
Ellis Burks
Frank Thomas
Larry Walker


And using some Bill James stuff that measures how likely they are to make the HOF, not how deserving:

Black Ink: Batting - 26 (Average HOFer ~ 27)
Gray Ink: Batting - 153 (Average HOFer ~ 144)
HOF Standards: Batting - 49.3 (Average HOFer ~ 50)
HOF Monitor: Batting - 191.5 (Likely HOFer > 100)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Also, I think Griffey should be moved out of CF to either a corner spot, or he should start taking grounders at 1B. He certainly doesn't have the same range now as he did during gold glove days, and the injury risk is just too great.

Or maybe just take a lesson from Nevin and stop diving for balls. :)

[Mordred]

I'd like to see Griffey get 500 HRs before I would say he truly deserves to be there. Would he get in if his career ended today? Probably. I'm just not sure he'd belong there.

He's been mostly healthy for 12 of his 15 seasons and he was very good for 10 of those. That's pretty good, but I'd like to see my HOFs contribute a little more... particularly since his teams never won anything.

Mordred

[Mordred]

Originally posted by DarkElf
And using some Bill James stuff that measures how likely they are to make the HOF, not how deserving:

Black Ink: Batting - 26 (Average HOFer ~ 27)
Gray Ink: Batting - 153 (Average HOFer ~ 144)
HOF Standards: Batting - 49.3 (Average HOFer ~ 50)
HOF Monitor: Batting - 191.5 (Likely HOFer > 100)
I was looking at baseball reference as I wrote my reply too :)

I've noticed that a lot of people I don't think really deserve it batting wise do really well in the Gray Ink and HOF Monitor standards. It seems to me that the veterans's picks and the Negro league picks have skewed those numbers considerably down. Or maybe it was just a ton easier to get into the HOF back then when not everybody was juiced :)

[twikoff]

does barry sanders belong in the hall?

[Mordred]

Originally posted by twikoff
does barry sanders belong in the hall? Not sure if this was directed at me, but yes he does. Of course the longevity of a baseball player and football player are different. Sanders quit early but he was easily one of the best ever. When Griffey started it looked like he would be one of the best ever as well... instead I feel he was just very good. If Griffey retired one solid season away from breaking the HR or Hits record he would deserve to be in the hall no question as well.

[El Scorcho]

:lol:

This thread is laughable.

If you think Griffey should not be hall-worthy, then you most likely think that Koufax shouldn't be in the hall either.

[twikoff]

Originally posted by El Scorcho

This thread is laughable.


kindof my thought

[Mordred]

Originally posted by El Scorcho
If you think Griffey should not be hall-worthy, then you most likely think that Koufax shouldn't be in the hall either. Don't get me started on Koufax! :lol:

[Thor Simpson]

I must protest.

Neither Griffey or Koufax belong in the Hall. Not until they let Rosie and her wife in for that stunning League of Their Own performance.

[LurkerDan]

Originally posted by twikoff
kindof my thought mine too...

Wasn't he on the All-Time team that they had? How does a guy make that team and NOT make the HoF? :hscratch:

When a guy is considered the best player in the game for an entire decade (with all apologies to Bonds), that's hard to refute...

[Red Dog]

Originally posted by El Scorcho
:lol:

This thread is laughable.

If you think Griffey should not be hall-worthy, then you most likely think that Koufax shouldn't be in the hall either.



Griffey's case is even stronger than Koufax's. Grif is a no-brainer for the Hall. The most dominant offensive player over the course of a decade. A 5-tool player to boot.

Greatest power hitter I have ever seen in person.

[Thor Simpson]

Originally posted by Red Dog
A 5-tool player to boot.
What 5 tools?

Run... catch... throw... bat skill... power...?

[Red Dog]

Originally posted by Thor Simpson
What 5 tools?

Run... catch... throw... bat skill... power...?


Yep. Bat skill = BA.

[acetimbo08]

I fully believe that Griffey Jr. belongs in the Hall, whether his career ended today or he played medicore ball for another 5-10 seasons. But let me ask you this someone said Griffey was the best player of the 90's, many people consider Jack Morris to be the best pitcher of the 80's, and when he was eligible for the Hall, he didn't get anywhere near the votes required and probably never will. Now I don't neccesarily agree he was the best pitcher of the 80's but there is no question that he was damn good.

[wildcatlh]

He was the best player in the league for a decade. He's in. This is silly to even question.

[El Scorcho]

Do you think we'll ever have a 500-HR guy who will *not* make it in? It's hard to imagine now but I can see it happening, especially with the small parks and shitty pitching these days.

[wildcatlh]

Originally posted by El Scorcho
Do you think we'll ever have a 500-HR guy who will *not* make it in? It's hard to imagine now but I can see it happening, especially with the small parks and shitty pitching these days.

McGriff's 9 away. Even if he gets to 500, he'd probably be the first 500 HR hitter not to get in.

[El Scorcho]

I dunno man, the hall does everything but show up to the stadium on the 500th home run to give a personal invite when a player reaches that plateau.

[chrisih8u]

Originally posted by El Scorcho
I dunno man, the hall does everything but show up to the stadium on the 500th home run to give a personal invite when a player reaches that plateau.


Those days may be over.

[Red Dog]

Originally posted by acetimbo08
I fully believe that Griffey Jr. belongs in the Hall, whether his career ended today or he played medicore ball for another 5-10 seasons. But let me ask you this someone said Griffey was the best player of the 90's, many people consider Jack Morris to be the best pitcher of the 80's, and when he was eligible for the Hall, he didn't get anywhere near the votes required and probably never will. Now I don't neccesarily agree he was the best pitcher of the 80's but there is no question that he was damn good.


I've always believed Jack Morris belongs in the Hall. Not only was he was the best starter in that decade but he had some great postseason heroics.


Oh and at some point, 500 HRs will not equal automatic entry. We'll have some interesting test cases coming up with Palmeiro and McGriff (if he gets to 500).

[Mr. M]

Griffey doesn't need to play another game to get into the Hall. Likewise for Clemens, Randy Johnson, Pedro, Maddux.

The inflated offensive numbers of the 90's will hurt the candidacies of a lot of great hitters: Piazza, Bagwell, Edgar Martinez, Palmeiro, McGriff, Frank Thomas. I'd vote for all of those guys, but only one or two are likely to get in.

[El Scorcho]

Name your top 5 McGriff and Palmeiro moments.

Ok, top 3.

ok ok, just one?

:lol:

[Red Dog]

Originally posted by El Scorcho
Name your top 5 McGriff and Palmeiro moments.

Ok, top 3.

ok ok, just one?

:lol:


I saw 500 Orioles games in person in the 90s and I cannot even name a single Palmeiro moment and he was there 5 years. :lol:

[El Scorcho]

Sadly my #1 McGriff moment involves his commercial for the Tom Emanski baseball skills videos and my #1 Palmeiro moment involves that damn Viagra commercial. Great legacy guys. :lol:

[Mr. M]

Of those guys I only really remember Gar moments, but I don't buy the lack of "moments" as an argument against the Hall. Having some memorable moments should be icing on the cake, but the absence of them shouldn't detract.

Which guys have the most memorable moments over the last few years? For most people the most vivid memories are the important games; pennant races, playoffs, Series. Jeter, Luis Gonzalez, Scott Brosius, Randy Johnson, etc. all had great postseason performances. Only Johnson is a lock for the HOF. Jeter might be the type of guy who gets in based on memorable moments in important games.

[fumanstan]

Definitely. No question Griffey is a hall of famer

[Red Dog]

Originally posted by Mr. M
Of those guys I only really remember Gar moments, but I don't buy the lack of "moments" as an argument against the Hall. Having some memorable moments should be icing on the cake, but the absence of them shouldn't detract.

Which guys have the most memorable moments over the last few years? For most people the most vivid memories are the important games; pennant races, playoffs, Series. Jeter, Luis Gonzalez, Scott Brosius, Randy Johnson, etc. all had great postseason performances. Only Johnson is a lock for the HOF. Jeter might be the type of guy who gets in based on memorable moments in important games.


I don't think he brought that up as a Hall prerequisite. Just some ironic food for thought. For example, Griffey really has no postseason memorable moments (at least to me). I saw Griffey in person far fewer times than Palmeiro, but I have more memorable moments from games he played in Baltimore than I do Palmeiro.

[El Scorcho]

Griffey moments:

* 8th game in a row with a HR
* sliding into home in the '95 playoffs to beat the yankees (and save the franchise for the most part)
* Busting his wrist jumping into the wall
* His overall swing

[POWERBOMB]

How long after he retires is he available for the Hall selection?

[fumanstan]

Originally posted by El Scorcho

* His overall swing

:up:

Might be the prettiest looking swing in the history of baseball

[twikoff]

Originally posted by POWERBOMB
How long after he retires is he available for the Hall selection?

5 years, i believe

[twikoff]

i think the only reason this question can even be considered is that we live in a 'what have you done for me lately' society that forget how dominating of a player both offensively and defensively he was for an entire decade
he wasnt just a great player for a decade..he was the best all around player for that span.. that alone makes it a no brainer
the number of people that disagree will be very minimal.. maybe just enough to keep it from being a unanimous vote

[chrisih8u]

Originally posted by twikoff

the number of people that disagree will be very minimal.. maybe just enough to keep it from being a unanimous vote


There is no way in hell Griffey will be a unanimous choice. Nobody will be for the forseeable future. I believe there are some voters that are on record saying that they would never vote for someone the 1st time they are eligible.

[POWERBOMB]

It happened to the Cowboy players this year and it may happen to Griffey Jr.

[Red Dog]

Originally posted by chrisih8u
There is no way in hell Griffey will be a unanimous choice. Nobody will be for the forseeable future. I believe there are some voters that are on record saying that they would never vote for someone the 1st time they are eligible.


It will be interesting to see how close Cal comes to an unanimous vote.

[twikoff]

Originally posted by chrisih8u
There is no way in hell Griffey will be a unanimous choice. Nobody will be for the forseeable future. I believe there are some voters that are on record saying that they would never vote for someone the 1st time they are eligible.

if Bonds passed Hank, it will be hard for him not to be

[chrisih8u]

Originally posted by Red Dog
It will be interesting to see how close Cal comes to an unanimous vote.


Cal probably won't be the closest. The voters have made stupid decisions plenty of times and this will probably be another. I can see some writers saying that all Ripken did was play in alot of consecutive games. :rolleyes:


And the rationale for ignoring first ballot players was that nobody has ever done it before, including all time greats like Ruth, Williams, etc. I personally think that is a stupid decision. Also, one Boston writer said that he would never vote for someone who used steroids.

[chrisih8u]

Originally posted by twikoff
if Bonds passed Hank, it will be hard for him not to be

He wont for the reasons stated above. Plus, the media hates his guts.

[Quake1028]

If Barry Bonds is not a unanimous first ballot selection, everyone who votes against him should be stripped of their voting rights.

[Quake1028]

Oh and BTW, Griffey Jr. is a lock today for the HoF.

[Red Dog]

Originally posted by Quake1028
If Barry Bonds is not a unanimous first ballot selection, everyone who votes against him should be stripped of their voting rights.


I can guarantee you that Bonds will not be a unanimous selection.

[Red Dog]

Originally posted by chrisih8u
Cal probably won't be the closest. The voters have made stupid decisions plenty of times and this will probably be another. I can see some writers saying that all Ripken did was play in alot of consecutive games. :rolleyes:



The only guy I see on the horizon who is likely to get more support than Cal is Roger Clemens.

[twikoff]

Originally posted by Red Dog
The only guy I see on the horizon who is likely to get more support than Cal is Roger Clemens.

maddux would have to be in the same group as roger

neither one of them will be.. but both definitly will make the hall quick

[chrisih8u]

Clemens will get a higher percentage than Maddux. And go into the Hall wearing a Red Sox cap. :p

[twikoff]

Originally posted by chrisih8u
And go into the Hall wearing a Red Sox cap. :p

:lol:

Id be pretty surprised

[chrisih8u]

Me too. But a guy can dream, right? :lol:

[Red Dog]

The Hall decides the cap now, so I think Roger will definitely go in with a Sox cap.

Oh and he is on a slightly higher level than Maddux.

[chrisih8u]

I think it could go either way. Certainly a case could be made for both.

[twikoff]

Originally posted by Red Dog
The Hall decides the cap now, so I think Roger will definitely go in with a Sox cap.

Oh and he is on a slightly higher level than Maddux.

Maddux better go in as a Brave ;)

[Aldarion]

Here's a quote from the interview that MLB.com did with A-Rod yesterday.

MLB.com: Who is the best player you have ever played with?

A-Rod: Ken Griffey Jr. He was electric. It was like watching Michelangelo in the outfield, and I had a great seat every night. He's the best player I've ever seen on a baseball field, period.

[Shamu]

Absolutely. He was one of the best offensive players of an entire decade while playing GG CF defense.

[D300]

I always thought Griffey was a lock for the HOF. But there is another player with some career stats that are not too far behind Griffey's and everyone would say he has no chance in hell of making the HOF.


At Bats Griffey 7079 to 7057
HR Griffey 481 to 462
RBI Griffey 1384 to 1407
Runs Griffey 1271 to 1186
Hits Griffey 2080 to 1877
Walks Griffey 940 to 906
SBases Griffey 177 to 200
BA Griffey .294 to .266

ROY Griffey 0 to 1
MVP Griffey 1 to 1

Led ML
in HR Griffey 1 to 2
in RBI Griffey 1 to 1

That player is :lol: Jose Canseco

[chrisih8u]

Interesting comparison. And that player will not make the hall.

[El Scorcho]

That's cuz Canseco sucks hard at defense and always had various incidents that tarnished his reputation.

[chrisih8u]

Originally posted by El Scorcho
That's cuz Canseco sucks hard at defense and always had various incidents that tarnished his reputation.


When you let a ball go off your head and over the fence, "sucks hard" doesn't even begin to describe your defense. :lol:

[fumanstan]

I wonder if that means Griffey is one rape accusation away from having his HoF pulled away from him :)

I think Canseco should be a Hall of Famer, but his antics over the last decade or so have tarnished his career, not to mention failing comebacks, that have just made him look like a fool. A shame.

[chrisih8u]

Steroids will be the main reason Canseco doesnt make the Hall of Fame. If Griffey came out and admitted to taking steroids all of those years, I doubt he would make it either. (I'm not saying that Griffey took steroids.)

[LurkerDan]

Originally posted by acetimbo08
I fully believe that Griffey Jr. belongs in the Hall, whether his career ended today or he played medicore ball for another 5-10 seasons. But let me ask you this someone said Griffey was the best player of the 90's, many people consider Jack Morris to be the best pitcher of the 80's, and when he was eligible for the Hall, he didn't get anywhere near the votes required and probably never will. Now I don't neccesarily agree he was the best pitcher of the 80's but there is no question that he was damn good. Morris may have been the best pitcher looking over the whole decade. But at many points in the decade he was not. Griffey, at virtually any point in the 90's, was considered the best player in the game. Huge difference.

[El Scorcho]

He may or may not be HoF material, but you gotta give Morris some love for throwing 10 innings of shutout ball in Game 7 of a world series. That's some serious cajones there.

[LurkerDan]

Originally posted by El Scorcho
He may or may not be HoF material, but you gotta give Morris some love for throwing 10 innings of shutout ball in Game 7 of a world series. That's some serious cajones there. Absolutely. Best game I ever saw. Hell of a performance. But doesn't get him in the HoF. ;)

[Red Dog]

Originally posted by LurkerDan
Absolutely. Best game I ever saw. Hell of a performance. But doesn't get him in the HoF. ;)

You're right. That doesn't. Of course that with all this does IMO:

- 12 15+ win seasons (and that doesn't include a 14 win strike-shortened '81 campaign)
- 7 top-10 finishes in Cy Young voting
- 8 top-10 strikeout seasons
- 10 seasons of 10+ complete games
- 2.96 ERA, 4-2 record in 7 WS starts


Black Ink: Pitching - 20 (86) (Average HOFer ~ 40)
Gray Ink: Pitching - 190 (45) (Average HOFer ~ 185)
HOF Standards: Pitching - 39.0 (70) (Average HOFer ~ 50)
HOF Monitor: Pitching - 122.5 (61) (Likely HOFer > 100)


Not a no-brainer, but enough to get in IMO. Blyleven even has a stronger case.

[Jeremy517]

Originally posted by D300
I always thought Griffey was a lock for the HOF. But there is another player with some career stats that are not too far behind Griffey's and everyone would say he has no chance in hell of making the HOF.


You think .266 versus .294 is not far off?

And as mentioned earlier, Canseco's defense is miles away from Griffey's defense.

[Tarantino]

Hell no he doesn't belong in the hall of fame.

[Red Dog]

Originally posted by juiio
You think .266 versus .294 is not far off?

And as mentioned earlier, Canseco's defense is miles away from Griffey's defense.


Not to mention Griffey's .941 OPS compared to Canseco's .868.

[El Scorcho]

That, and Griffey isn't a complete tool like Canseco is.

[Three Day Delay]

Maybe Griffey should bet on baseball. That will assure him that public will want him in the hall of fame.

[D300]

Originally posted by juiio
You think .266 versus .294 is not far off?

No, I could have left that off for comparison, but that wouldn't have been right. I was just pointing out that Canseco who will probably get less than 10% of the HOF vote has some career stats that aren't far behind Griffey who will get around 80% of the HOF vote.

[Aldarion]

Originally posted by D300
No, I could have left that off for comparison, but that wouldn't have been right. I was just pointing out that Canseco who will probably get less than 10% of the HOF vote has some career stats that aren't far behind Griffey who will get around 80% of the HOF vote.

It's true that some of Canseco's stats are close to Griffey's, but you can't say that Canseco was definitely superior to Griffey in any area. Conversely, Griffey is definitely superior to Canseco in many areas.

Even in some of the areas you mentioned, Griffey looks a lot better with a closer look.

Top 5 MVP Voting - Griffey 5, Canseco 2

Canseco had nearly as many walks as Griffey, but also struck out 700 times more.

Griffey led the AL in HR 4 times.

Griffey was a rookie at 19. Canseco was a rookie at 21. I'd take Griffey's performance at 21 over Canseco's at the same age. Griffey would have won ROY in a walk if he hadn't made the majors so quickly.

[Da Thrilla]

I don't think so.

[Shamu]

It's a little strange to compare Griffey to Canseco. Griffey was a gold glove winning Centerfielder with elite offense for an entire decade. Canseco was a corner outfielder. There's a pretty big difference between the two. You don't compare a 3B to a 1B straight up, just like you don't compare a gold glove CF to a RF/LF that lets balls bounce off of his head for homeruns.

But even if you don't look at their fielding/positions, Griffey is still a lot better.

[D300]

Originally posted by Aldarion
It's true that some of Canseco's stats are close to Griffey's, but you can't say that Canseco was definitely superior to Griffey in any area. Conversely, Griffey is definitely superior to Canseco in many area.

I agree, I was never endorsing Canseco for the HOF, hence the :lol: Jose Canseco. And I believe Griffey will be in the HOF. I was just pointing out that their stats were so much closer compared to their respective chances of making the HOF.

[Da Thrilla]

Yeah comparing Canseco and Griffey is like comparing Pete Rose with Daryl Strawberry. Just doesn't make sense.

[LurkerDan]

Originally posted by Red Dog
You're right. That doesn't. Of course that with all this does IMO:

- 12 15+ win seasons (and that doesn't include a 14 win strike-shortened '81 campaign)
- 7 top-10 finishes in Cy Young voting
- 8 top-10 strikeout seasons
- 10 seasons of 10+ complete games
- 2.96 ERA, 4-2 record in 7 WS starts


Black Ink: Pitching - 20 (86) (Average HOFer ~ 40)
Gray Ink: Pitching - 190 (45) (Average HOFer ~ 185)
HOF Standards: Pitching - 39.0 (70) (Average HOFer ~ 50)
HOF Monitor: Pitching - 122.5 (61) (Likely HOFer > 100)


Not a no-brainer, but enough to get in IMO. Blyleven even has a stronger case. I think Morris is close, I don't think I've said otherwise. But, as you probably know, he would have the highest ERA of any pitcher in the Hall if elected. But I think Blyleven definitely deserves to be in. The guy WOULD be in had he played on better teams.

[LurkerDan]

Originally posted by Shamu
It's a little strange to compare Griffey to Canseco. Griffey was a gold glove winning Centerfielder with elite offense for an entire decade. Canseco was a corner outfielder. There's a pretty big difference between the two. You don't compare a 3B to a 1B straight up, just like you don't compare a gold glove CF to a RF/LF that lets balls bounce off of his head for homeruns.

But even if you don't look at their fielding/positions, Griffey is still a lot better. Excellent point.

[Red Dog]

Originally posted by LurkerDan
I think Morris is close, I don't think I've said otherwise. But, as you probably know, he would have the highest ERA of any pitcher in the Hall if elected. But I think Blyleven definitely deserves to be in. The guy WOULD be in had he played on better teams.


Part of it is a gut call I'll admit. To me, the 80s is the golden era of baseball and I don't ever see that changing. I'll probably hold my 'heroes' in higher regard as such.

[Quake1028]

Originally posted by Red Dog
I can guarantee you that Bonds will not be a unanimous selection.

Oh I guarantee you are right. But with the stats he is going to end up with, he SHOULD be.

[Shamu]

Originally posted by Quake1028
Oh I guarantee you are right. But with the stats he is going to end up with, he SHOULD be.

Nobody has ever received a unanimous HOF vote.

Not even Ted Williams, Babe Ruth, etc.

[Mordred]

Originally posted by Shamu
Nobody has ever received a unanimous HOF vote.

Not even Ted Williams, Babe Ruth, etc. Wasn't Nolan Ryan the closest to unanimous so far? I he like 98-99% I thought.

[El Scorcho]

That's because some voters are complete idiots and should be removed from their privileges.

There's no reason whatsoever that Nolan Ryan, Ted Williams, Babe Ruth, etc. should not be unanimous votes.

[chrisih8u]

I think Tom Seaver was the closest to being unanimous. Just a little over 98%.

[twikoff]

Originally posted by El Scorcho
That's because some voters are complete idiots and should be removed from their privileges.

:up:

[Quake1028]

Yep, twikoff is completely right. How can you possibly look at a guy like Ruth or Bonds and honsestly think they don't belong in the HoF on the first ballot?

[chrisih8u]

I have always wondered why Ruth and other all time greats were not unanimous. And its totally bogus how writers let those circumstances affect their current voting.

[POWERBOMB]

I have felt that this year with the Cowboys voting earlier this year.

[LurkerDan]

Originally posted by chrisih8u
I have always wondered why Ruth and other all time greats were not unanimous. And its totally bogus how writers let those circumstances affect their current voting. Ruth was voted in the first year of the HoF. I don't really know what the circumstances were of those votes (i.e., how many they were allowed to vote for, etc). So I don't usually "complain" about Ruth not being unanimous. But sticking to more modern votes, some guys are SOOOO obviously Hall of Famers that it is just ridiculous that there are some morons who won't vote for them.

[Red Dog]

Originally posted by LurkerDan
Ruth was voted in the first year of the HoF. I don't really know what the circumstances were of those votes (i.e., how many they were allowed to vote for, etc). So I don't usually "complain" about Ruth not being unanimous. But sticking to more modern votes, some guys are SOOOO obviously Hall of Famers that it is just ridiculous that there are some morons who won't vote for them.


Hank Aaron, Willie Mays, Ted Williams, Steve Carlton to name a few.

[twikoff]

Originally posted by Red Dog
Hank Aaron, Willie Mays, Ted Williams, Steve Carlton to name a few.

Tony Gwynn
Nolan Ryan
Pete Rose ;)

[Red Dog]

I can see why Nolan Ryan did not get unanimous election. I'm not saying he wouldn't have gotten my vote, but I can at least buy some reason why someone would not vote for him.

[twikoff]

Originally posted by Red Dog
I can see why Nolan Ryan did not get unanimous election. I'm not saying he wouldn't have gotten my vote, but I can at least buy some reason why someone would not vote for him.

exactly
and some people can see why tony gwynn might have missed some votes..

the point Im making.. is that some players legend continues to grow after they retire..
maybe 5 years after some of the all time legends retired, there was still some doubt in some peoples minds.. but as time passed, their legend grew, to make it impossible for us to understand now.

[Red Dog]

Originally posted by twikoff
exactly
and some people can see why tony gwynn might have missed some votes..

the point Im making.. is that some players legend continues to grow after they retire..
maybe 5 years after some of the all time legends retired, there was still some doubt in some peoples minds.. but as time passed, their legend grew, to make it impossible for us to understand now.


I think Hank Aaron's legend peaked on an April night in Atlanta in 1974 and not in 1981 (when he was inducted) or thereafter. There are a precious few absolute no-brainers.

[Mordred]

I think the main reason nobody gets unanimous votes is that a lot of the voters have weird personal standards.

i.e. no votes for first time eligible players
only 1, 2, X number of votes per year, etc.

There's always a few weirdo's in the bunch and thus no player will ever be inducted unanimously, no matter how deserving.

[NCMojo]

OK... lemme play Devil's Advocate for a while here.

When you consider the Hall of Fame, shouldn't you consider the entire career of the player? Several players have come into the league and done extremely well their first few years, even winning MVP honors, only to fade away into oblivion. Ken Griffey, Jr., had some great years in Seattle, true, but what if he continues to be mediocre in Cincinnati? What if he gets traded to the Devil Rays and just pops off the radar for a few years?

I'm not saying that there is a pervasive "what have you done for me now" mentality, but isn't there any excellent chance that, in 2014, more voters will remember the scowling, unproductive Griffey than the bright young smiling superstar?

[Red Dog]

Originally posted by NCMojo
OK... lemme play Devil's Advocate for a while here.

When you consider the Hall of Fame, shouldn't you consider the entire career of the player? Several players have come into the league and done extremely well their first few years, even winning MVP honors, only to fade away into oblivion. Ken Griffey, Jr., had some great years in Seattle, true, but what if he continues to be mediocre in Cincinnati? What if he gets traded to the Devil Rays and just pops off the radar for a few years?

I'm not saying that there is a pervasive "what have you done for me now" mentality, but isn't there any excellent chance that, in 2014, more voters will remember the scowling, unproductive Griffey than the bright young smiling superstar?


If first few years = 4 or 5 years, you have a valid point. If first few years = 9 or 10 years, I don't think so. Griffey of course falls under the latter. An excellent example of the former is Don Mattingly.

[BrewCrew]

Originally posted by twikoff

and some people can see why tony gwynn might have missed some votes..


Tony Gwynn is not in the Hall of Fame. It will be interesting though to see what percentage of the vote he and Ripken will get.

[twikoff]

Originally posted by BrewCrew
Tony Gwynn is not in the Hall of Fame. It will be interesting though to see what percentage of the vote he and Ripken will get.

yes, of course i know tony isnt in the hof
bad phrasing -ptth-

[Aphex Twin]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1771512

SARASOTA, Fla. -- Ken Griffey Jr. strained his right calf while running out a groundball Monday night and left the Cincinnati Reds' game as a precaution.

Griffey stayed in the game for one more inning, then jogged off the field accompanied by a trainer.

In each of the last three seasons, the outfielder sustained a major injury in the final week of spring training or the first week of the regular season. Last year, he dislocated his shoulder in the fifth game of the season, returned and tore up his right ankle. He then had surgery for both injuries.

Griffey, 34, hasn't been hurt this spring, running easily on his surgically repaired ankle. He has struggled at the plate, batting .158.

He hurt his calf while running hard out of the batters' box on a grounder to the right side in the first inning, easing up when he realized he was going to be thrown out.

He played the field as the Pittsburgh Pirates batted in the second inning, then left the game.

[twikoff]

thats what you get for running your ass off on every single damn play :mad:

if only bonds would run out every groundball

[POWERBOMB]

What's with the rumor Griffey is being traded?

[Jericho]

I think he'd be given away if anyone would take on his salary