dsw13

First time poster, long time lurker. I'm looking for a new show to get into on dvd and can't say that I've ever read anything but glowing reviews of Buffy. I quietly jumped on the B5 bandwagon while following the saga of Bandobutters and all his tormentors (I just finished "Lines of Communication"), and, in anticipation of finishing B5 Season 4 within the next week, I figure I'd better find something to tide me over until season five comes out (I've watched B5 from the begining over the course of the past six weeks, so to this point I've been able to avoid withdrawl).

I'm a sucker for shows with big story arcs, so I'd normally jump in without starting my own thread (amazon is running a deal whereby it's only $120 for the first four seasons). However, over the years I have found out a few things that occur on Buffy, and I'm wondering just how much has been spoiled for me. In short, I've already gathered the following:



How much will this knowledge affect my enjoyment of this show as an otherwise newbie?

I'd appreciate feedback from everyone, but especially from those who sung the praises of B5. das, I hope it's not bad form to request a response from a long time member in one's first post, but I'm especially interested in any advice you might have.

Not sure if it matters, but I enjoy the following current shows: Alias, 24, Boomtown (sadly now defunct), The Sopranos, Six Feet Under, Curb Your Enthusisasm, and Arrested Development. I liked the X-Files for a time, but got annoyed by the glacial pace with which things were revealed (started to feel like one big tease to me). But, I'm certainly not looking to start an X-Files debate, just trying to establish where I'm coming from. Also, as I mentioned earlier, thanks to this forum, I've gotten into B5 (which, while I think is very good, I will wait to see how season 4 plays out before I decide if I'm prepared to label it "Great").

Once again, I'd appreciate any feedback/advice.

Bandoman

Well, if you're already past season 3 of Babylon 5 and aren't sure about it, I'm not sure what you'll think of Buffy.

I'm about halfway into season 2 of Buffy and I'm a little underwhelmed, although I'm still giving it a chance because many have told me it really picks up at the end of season 2 into season 3.

bullwinkle

Buffy the Vampire Slayer, is in my opinion, the greatest TV show of all time. You will love it. Knowing those things will not hinder your experience at all. Unlike some shows (24, which I do like), knowing spoilers on Buffy won't matter because the episodes are so good it doesn't matter. The Amazon deal is incredible and I strongly suggest that you dive into the wonderful world of Buffy. Have fun!

Bandobutters: an episode or two more into Season 2 and you will be blown away. The end of Season 2 is absolutely amazing.

dsw13

It's not that I'm not sure about B5 (I've flown through 77 episodes over the past month and a half, so I do like it), it's just that I'm very selective in what I label as "great" (as an example, the only shows I've seen the past few years that I would label "great" as opposed to just "very good" are episodes 1-12 of 24 Season 1; select episodes of Alias- including the famous post-Super Bowl episode; and Seasons 1 and 2 of The Sopranos). I guess it's just a matter of semantics but, suffice to say, I don't regret my B5 purchase and am looking forward to tearing through the rest of season 4 (if I regretted B5, I wouldn't be asking for the opinions of those who recommended it .

I am curious, however, about how your Buffy experience is comparing to your B5 experience, but I suppose I can find that info. in another thread.

das Monkey

Given what you've said so far, I think you'll like it just fine and maybe even love it. It's a bit of a "younger" show in many of the early episodes, in that it addresses issues profoundly relevant to teenagers, but the themes are valid for anyone. I only mention that because some people are immediately turned off by all the young characters. The early theme of the show is very simple: "high school is Hell ... literally."

The structure of the arcs is pretty different from Babylon 5, and each season for the most part begins and ends, telling one fairly complete story. In a lot of ways, this is a very unique quality. Season finales resolve issues instead of presenting grand cliff-hangers.

As for the spoilers you've mentioned, they're not too big a deal. How these events occur, and what happens because of them are far more interesting anyway.

Season 1 is very short, and Season 2 is one of the show's strongest, so you should be able to find out quickly whether you like it or not. Granted, you'll have to invest the cash regardless, but I don't think it requires the same kind of time investment that I mentioned with Babylon 5. You'll know fairly soon whether this show is for you. My take is that if you like Babylon 5, then you probably can appreciate great characters; if you like Alias, you're not turned off by emotional relationship issues; and if you like Curb Your Enthusiasm and Arrested Devlopment, you have an appreciation for offbeat humor; and if you like 24, you're tolerant of bad writing ... ok, strike that last one. Buffy is marked by great characters, strong emotional relationships, and wonderful humor. It's also pretty insightful when it comes to our own humanity.

I won't give it the "You're an idiot if you don't try this show" seal of approval I'd give to some others, but it's pretty close. Something else to consider. I love Buffy. It's one of a handful of shows that I just love, in spite of any flaws, for whatever undefineable reason. I look at your list of current shows that you enjoy, and the only one I don't think kicks total ass is 24 (and some recent Alias), and even those I still enjoy. I also completely agree with your assessment of The X-Files. Given that, I'm going to guess that you and I have somewhat similar tastes when it comes to television shows, and as such, I'd guess there's a better than average chance we'll feel about the same way on this one too.

Hope that helps, and Welcome to the Forum. Stick around.

das

Edit: When I rag on 24, I don't mean those first 12 episodes. I agree with you on that ... they were pretty damn good.

dsw13

Glad to see the little I know won't ruin too much. das, knowing that our tastes are simlar and that I haven't had too much spoiled gives me the piece of mind to blind buy this one. I'll probably place an order some time this week. Don't worry, if I hate it I won't hold it against you. I doubt I'll tear through it like I did with B5. With B5, I found that I gulped down the early episodes so that I could get to the good stuff. By the time I did, I was already in the habit of watching several at a clip.

But I digress. Anyways, thanks for the welcome and the feedback. Glad to be here.

rfduncan

Join Netflix and rent season one... which wraps up nicely at the end (b/c they weren't sure they'd be renewed). That way if you don't like it, you can pretend it just ended there.

nny

I didn't start watching Buffy till season 5, so I was worried that I knew too much, but it didn't affect the show as much as I thought it would.

Actually, the way it bothered me the most was that people hyped up season 2 and 3 so much that season 2 was a huge letdown and season 3 was a slight letdown. I actually love season 3, but I watched season 5 first and I feel season 5 may be the best season of any drama ever. Most people seem to like season 2 and 3 the best, so I figured if there was any chance they were better than season 5, I was in store for something amazing.

Another reason that you should watch Buffy, that nobody's mentioned, is so you can then watch another one of the best shows ever made, Angel.

dsw13

I had thought about that, but I'll cross that bridge when I get there (after season 3?). Before I even posted, I was pretty sure I'd give Buffy a shot as it's pretty much been universally praised and it's one of those shows that I always meant to watch, but never did. The main reason I posted was that I wanted to make sure I didn't already know too much. As for Angel, I haven't seen the same universal love (although I realize that it does have a nice following), so I'm not pre-sold on the idea. I probably have a few months before I've got to worry about that.

Doughboy

Those are some major spoilers, but there are plenty of things left to discover(the character arcs of Spike and Faith for starters). Plus it sounds like you don't really know the details of how all of those spoilers come to pass, so you'll still have fun watching the show. The DVDs are really cheap, so give it a try.

And if you love arc-driven shows, definitely take a look at Angel. Seasons 2-4 are essentially one giant storyline.

Josh-da-man

To compare B5 and Buffy...

In some ways, the shows share a few parallells, esp. in the earlier seasons.

The first seasons of both shows are sort of finding their legs. You know that something is up, but don't quite know if it'll pay off or not.

The second seasons are where the shows darken, and the themes have become clear. Playtime's over and innocence is lost. THIS is what the shows are about.

Where Babylon 5 darkened in its second season with a whimper in "The Coming of Shadows," BTVS darkens in its second with a bang. Ever see "Devil's Backbone?" In the yard of the orphanage, there's this big unexploded bomb just sticking out of the ground. On Buffy, there's also this big bomb just waiting to go off. But nobody, not even the viewer, even knows its there. And by the time it goes off, it's too late. And it's something that has colored the show through its entire seven season run.

As to structure, like das said, each season of BTVS is its own story, whereas B5 is one long story arc.

The arcs of BTVS tend to be more thematic and character-oriented than plot-intensive like on B5, though this will change by the fourth and fifth seasons. The themes will still be there, but the plots will get more complex with one episode leading into the other. One thing that doesn't change, though, is that each season of Buffy also has its own villain (aka, "Big Bad").

Expect to see all of the characters on BTVS go through a lot of life changes and grow up in some unexpected ways. Willow, Faith (who, if you're only in the first or second season, you haven't met yet) and Spike, have some especially interesting roads ahead of them.

Much of the appeal of BTVS are the character arcs. One thing that surprised me is the level of raw emotion on display. For a show about a girl named Buffy who slays vampires, there are things that have a lot of impact. There's one scene, a simple little thing, in the third season episode "Consequences" where Buffy is in Willow's bedroom and just breaks down in tears. It really packed a lot of punch for me because of the things between Buffy and Willow that led up to it. It's not one of those things that is discussed a lot, but it's just something that stuck with me since I first saw it, and how beautiful the friendship and affection the characters share for each other is.

I'd say that's it's probably best to go into BTVS as unspoiled as possible, because some of the twists coming up are just devastating.

Josh-da-man

1) It's more complicated than that.

2) Can't argue with that one.

3) Kind of, sort of. It's more complicated than that.

4) Dead wrong. You'll see.

dsw13

Thanks everyone for the responses. I'm pretty sure I'll take the plunge.

The only thing bothering me now is the amazon deal. First off, I recognize that it's a great bargain. My concern is that I've read that, at least when originally released, there were problems with many of the sets having floaters and discs with scratches (particularly with season 3). Have recent pressings of these seasons addressed these packaging issues, or are the sets currently being sold as likely to have defects as those that were being sold when the sets were first released? Having dealt with this on two out of the four seasons of the Babylon 5 sets, I'm a bit weary of the seemingly haphazard packaging of tv shows on dvd (especially since it's not always convenient to get through an entire season during the 30 day return period).

Anyone out there do the amazon deal yet, and if so, have you had any problems? I'm not a big fan of having to return defective merchandise through the mail, especially when you can't just return the bad discs for good ones, but rather, are forced to keep exchanging sets until you happen upon a good one.

Also, does anyone know the answer to the following: I do the four seasons for $119 deal, but only have a problem with a disc from one of the seasons. Do I have to send back the entire four season package, or just the one season with the bad disc?

I hope that's not too many questions for one post. Once again, any feedback is appreciated.

das Monkey

You may want to ask over in the DVD Bargains forum, but I suspect the answer you'll get won't be much different from what you expect: it's going to be a crapshoot with any DVD box set that's shipped from any e-tailer. One somewhat icky "solution" is to take advantage of the deal and then shake the boxes when they arrive. If there's a loose disc, chances are you'll recognize it, at which point you can go buy the set from Best Buy or Wal-Mart or whatever, checking the packaging again, and then return the bad one on the same receipt to that store later. It's not the most ethical choice, but it is what it is.

Best of luck to you however you decide.

das

bboisvert

The 'amazon' deal (Barnes & Noble.com has it too) is just 4 boxed sets shipped together. You're going to have just as much of a shot at getting a bad set as anywhere else (that is, there's nothing 'special' about these sets, other than they ship at the same time for a discount). That being said, I've purchased 4 of my 5 Buffy sets via mailorder and have never had a problem with floaters or anything. No issues with B5 or Angel either. Maybe I'm just lucky? (that'd be a switch.)

Anyway, I can definitely recommend taking the plunge. I was a Buffy newbie before the DVD sets started (saw the theatrical film, never bothered with the series). Now I consider this one of the top 10 shows of all time. Maybe top 5 if you catch me in a good mood.

If you like quality shows with great writing, you should enjoy it.

Tracer Bullet

Babylon 5 is very much a plot-driven show, whereas BtVS is very much a character-driven show. Knowing the plot points you mentioned shouldn't impact your enjoyment of the show, because these "events" are a device to get deeper into the characters. They're also jumping-off points to some great storytelling.

This is not to say that B5 doesn't contain compelling characters, but that to my mind that's not the driving focus of the show.

garmonbozia

you don't need to do that with Amazon which is why I prefer to order box sets from Amazon. If your sets arrive and there is a scratched up disc, you can just call them and they will send you a replacement immediately. Since you have 30 days to send the first one back, I wait until my replacement comes and switch discs around to get a set with no scratched ones on it (since the replacement could have a different disc that is scratched).
Amazon really is the best with CS.

It's so frustrating when returning things to places like DDD that will not send out a replacement until they receive your defective disc(s) back. It took me over 2 months to get a replacement for my Farscape season 1 from DDD.

I doubt you'll ever find a better deal than this for Seasons 1-4 of Buffy, so I recommend just taking the plunge and doing it. You'll know by the end of Season 2 if you wish to continue with the show or not.......and if you do, remember to watch Angel season 1 concurrently with Buffy Season 4.

Have fun!!

Doug Heffernan

Wow, you never said that to me .

otmetrud

I agree with everyone else in regards to the spoilers. I became a Buffy convert with the DVDs, and a lot of things were spoiled to me before I saw them. But I've been amazed at how much I still enjoyed the build up to and the fallout from those events. To pull out an old cliche, with this show, it's not so much the destination as it is the journey that keeps you riveted.

DSW, my guess is that you'll have the same reaction as Bandobutters. This series does take awhile to grab hold. It's an entertaining, different and good show but nothing earthshaking in Season 1. And then Season 2 has a long, slow buildup. But all of a sudden at a point in Season 2, it'll grab you by the throat and won't let go for two or three seasons.

dsw13

Mom always said I was a very special boy.

dsw13

Upon further reflection I have decided, without any prompting or scanning whatsoever, that B5 is indeed great.

das Monkey

das Monkey

Wonder why ... oh yeah, cuz you stole Carrie Spooner from me. She was to be mine ... and she still will be.

das

DVDGUY1116

Welcome to the forum!!

DSW13, I would definitely give Buffy a chance. It was my favorite show on TV, until Angel s3, then it became my second until it ended. The spoilers mentioned are not that simple at all. As a general rule...everything on Buffy AND Angel are more complicated than they appear to be. I do have two words of advice though:

1: Go through the first 2 seasons of Buffy before you make your decision. Season 1 is a bit sluggish and season 2 starts off the same way. However, once you reach the part in season 2 where the first spoiler you mentioned happens, you will not be able to stop watching all they way through to season 5. It is that good.

2. My favorite season of Buffy is #3, followed closely by 2 then 5 then 4. It is widely considered that seasons 2 through 5 are the best Buffy had to offer. Season 1 is a good starter. Season 6 is different and season 7 is OK.

3. If you enjoy the first three seasons of Buffy you should definitely check out Angel. Angel season 1 and Buffy season 4 intersect at times and season 2 of Angel sets the long story arcs that you mentioned you liked. Season 3 of Angel, which comes out in February, is my favorite of the 5 Angel seasons and has a story arc that continues for the entire 4th season. Be warned though...Angel is a lot darker and caters more towards the older crowd.

Enjoy!

dsw13

Thanks again for all the responses. On Saturday, I picked up seasons one and two locally. I guess I'm getting my feet wet as opposed to taking the plunge. Based on past experiences with television boxed sets, I just wasn't comfortable buying it online. As it turns out, I already had to exchange two scratched discs (one from each season). From everyone's comments, I figure I should know by the end of season two whether or not the show's for me. If I'm hooked, I won't mind having spent a little more for the first four seasons in exchange for the piece of mind of being able to make an easy, quick exchange when necessary.

So far, I've watched the first three episodes, and while I agree that they're far from being earth shatteringly good, I have found them to be entertaining. While not fully on display, I can see a certain wit to the writing style that I imagine becomes more consistent as the series progresses. Thanks again for the warm welcome.

Not a problem. One might even say that I was part of the "older crowd" . If Buffy's as good as it's cracked up to be, I doubt I'll be able to resist a darker spin off with a multi-season story arc.