JasonF

This thread is for those of you who, like me, watch Buffy only on DVD -- so no spoilers for Buffy S6 or S7!!! (Or Angel S3-current, for that matter).

I finally got a chance to finish watching S5 (it's been sitting on my shelf taunting me while work kept me busy the past few weeks). All I can say is wow. I had heard all the usual complaints -- "Buffy after S3 sucks; it gets worse and worse, etc." -- but this was just good TV. In fact, I liked S5 better than I liked S4.

One thing I really liked about this season was the way the seemingly throw-away episodes (like the troll episode, or the one with Warren's robot, or the one that introduces Joel Grey's character) came back to become more significant as the season came to a conclusion. I also liked the way there were little throw-away references to previous seasons (like Willow's "I took Psych 101. OK, granted, I took it from a mad government scientist who later got killed by her own Frankenstein-like creation, but still.")

I didn't like Mopey Riley, but thankfully, he was only around for half the episodes. Also, Mopey Riley was still 100 times less annoying than S3 Mopey Angel.

Even though I knew what was coming, the Body still got to me. That was an amazing episode.

All in all, good stuff. Probably not as good as S2 or the main arc of S3, but still top-notch stuff. I can't wait for S6 (and Angel S3).

Gil Jawetz

We talk about this constantly. Season 5 is a bit uneven but has some terrific stuff in it. Riley is a drain on the show every time he's on screen and it takes a while for Glory to stop being annoying and start being good. But the end of the season is amazing and the Body, as you said, is brilliant and devestating. But after S5 it REALLY is all downhill (except the musical)

pagansoul

Not if you like Spike.

JasonF

The end of the season is truly amazing. I watched the last 10 episodes (almost half the season) in one big long Buffy orgy yesteday.

Buffy orgy

Huh? What was I saying? Oh yeah. As for it really going downhill for S6 and S7, I suppose it's possible, but I remember that when I was buying S4, people warned me that after S3, it was all crap. And when I was buying S5, people were saying S5-S7 were crap. So, while you may be right that S6 and S7 suck, I'm willing to bet I'll enjoy them.

Has a release date been announced for S6?

Josh-da-man

Another one that's easy to miss. The vampire that Riley picks up in Willy's bar is the girl that Vampire Willow killed in "Dopplegangland." Same name (Sandy), same actress.

Josh-da-man

While I enjoyed the arc of Season Five, I thought it was probably the weakest overall season.

Riley was okay in Season Four, but he was a drag on S5. Without the Initiative in the background, he didn't really fit in. That, and Riley and Buffy never really had any kind of chemistry together -- it showed more this season.

This season probably had more "dud" episodes than any other season. There was a run of three episodes -- Riley's final three -- that were particularly bad. In fact, any ep. that focused on Riley didn't really work. Once he was gone, things picked up.

The only ep post-Riley that I thought was a dud was "Weight of the World." Seemed like they were trying to stretch the climax out too much.

Dawn. I was surprised that I actually liked Dawn. With everyone slowly growing up, she added a certain degree of youthful (bratty) energy to the proceedings.

I also like Willow and Tara a lot. Absolutely adorable couple. Willow's line in "Tough Love" -- "She's my girl," was an incredibly touching moment.

I also liked Spike's arc this season. "Fool for Love" provided some great backstory, and the end of that episode was just amazing.

Anya is still getting all of the best lines. And I liked Olaf a lot, too.

Finally got to see the Buffybot, and it didn't bother me as much as I thought it would. The "romantic" scenes it shared with Spike were hilarious, and I can't believe they got aired on television.

otmetrud

I loved the character arcs in S5. Glory didn't do much for me as a Big Bad, but despite that, I rank this season right up there with the best seasons -- a huge rebound from a shizophrenic and sometimes lame S4.

The development of the core characters in S5 was excellent. I agree with many who feel that the Spike arc was a cheat. I have problems with the way he got there, but I do like him as a useful member of the gang. And I very much liked the addition of Dawn, and thought her introduction was completely organic -- no cheats there.

And I was glad to see Riley dispatched. I wasn't as annoyed by him as many others were, but I did think he was a huge waste of screen time, especially after the quelling of the Initiative in S4.

The only ep I didn't like in S5 was "Buffy vs. Dracula." Cool concept, but the execution was lame. From Ep 2 on, though, I didn't see any episode that I would rank in badness with things like "I Robot, You Jane" or "Where the Wild Things Are" or a couple or three from S2.

JasonF

I agree with you on "Buffy vs. Dracula" and "I Robot," but I like "Wild Things," gosh darn it! I'm a sucker for any episode where the scoobies get to strut their stuff.

Caveat: I also liked "Beer Bad," so I'm clearly some kind of freak with no taste.

BizRodian

S5's best parts were a few episodes that were really good. I'd say that the overall plot arc was much worse than season 4's... but season 4 didn't have those final three episodes of greatness, nor did it have The Body, or Fool for Love.

But when I can't enjoy the overall story, I really can't enjoy the show. As cool as a few episodes are.

Spiderbite

The wife and I just finished Season 5 last night along with Season 2 of Angel.

We were both pretty annoyed with Season 5. It was obnoxious right from the beginning with the "Dawn" story-line right up to the end. The remaining episodes after "The Body" just seemed tedious and forced. I liked Glory in the beginning but she was on my last nerve by the end. We both always hated the Dawn character and felt it was a crappy storyline to begin with. I was hoping to see her die...but alas.

The Tara/Willow relationship was very forced and never seemed natural. The whole "Let's make her a lesbian to create a storyline" just hasn't worked and seems to have killed her character. It's funny how Willow was such a fun character at the beginning of the show but now all the funny lines go to Anya. Willow's character is just so dull now and it makes me sad since I liked her so much in the beginning.

This entire season would have been trash if it hadn't been for Spike. I don't know if I could have made it thru the season without him. Xander is still the same. Funny but the lines don't seem to come as naturally as they once did. Anya is great and is another part of the show that helped keep this season interesting even though she is a minor character with little to do.

One question that I hope someone can answer because the wife and I must have missed it: How did Glory and the doctor/nurse Ben become one in the same? At the first of the season, it showed Glory and Ben even talking and fighting with each other and are completely separate characters. All of a sudden, Ben and Glory are the same person and are fighting for space. What did I miss?

MrX

I'm pretty sure Ben is kind of like Dawn in that he was created to hold Glory.

She eventually became powerful enough where she could appear every once in awhile. She was weakened in the finale and that's why Giles killed Ben at the end of Season 5, before she regained enough power to return.

wergo

They never specifically state whether Ben was created as a vessel* or whether he was already a baby when Glory was imprisoned inside him. (And it's not as if we know for sure that Gregor knows what he's talking about; he's surely just repeating whatever he was told) Either way, Ben and Glory were never talking together early in the season - that's why they needed the hobbits with skin problems to convey messages between them. There was some subtle clues to lead the viewers to assume that Ben might also have been a god (i.e. Glory's "brother") but that turned out to be misdirection.

*we're not even sure that the Knights of Byzantium could have created a person; we only know that the monks could. (and we're not even sure how well they did it when they did it. it's not too much of a stretch to consider that Dawn might have been so damn annoying because she doesn't have a soul - can monks create a soul?)

I'm STILL trying to figure out why the monks kept the damn key in the first place. To "harness it for the forces of light"? What the frilly heck does THAT mean, anyway?

I should pount out here that one of the things I love the most about season five the most is that Buffy DOESN'T win. She never does find a way to defeat Glory; she only manages to delay her. And, even then, the delay only works because a> she's dying to kill herself (that pesky "death wish" thing Spike was going on about earlier) and b> Giles was willing to murder an innocent kid(yeay, yeah, WE know that he sent the quellor demon to kill a bunch of OTHER innocents, but HE didn't know that).

Slayer2005

Buffy season 5 ROCKED. It's almost up there with season 3. As far as the story arc goes it's number 1. Season 6 is damn good too, but it just didn't flow as well on TV as it did on DVD. I had to rewatch it on DVD after viewing it on TV to full appreciate it. It has it's weak spots, but it works much better on dvd. Most people who watched the seasons followed on tv with all of the commerical and long episode breaks. Life is the big bad in season 6 and the 3 part finale is simply incredible.

Silt

I really liked S5, MUCH more than S4. They get rid of Riley!...and I liked Glorificus. Wasn't a big fan of Dawn at first, but liked her and her story more when watching the DVDs. I'd only rank S2 and S3 ahead of S5.

I find alot of Buffy fans say the show goes all downhill after S3. I disagree. S4-7 of Buffy is still better than the other shows that were on at the time...and hell...I'd rather watch S4-7 repeats than most the garbage currently on T.V. today.

MechanicalMan

If you felt that way about season 5, you'd better brace yourself for season 7.

Amel

I agree. It does go downhill after S3, but that's only when compared to previous seasons of BtVS. As compared to other series, it kicks ass! It's just tough the first time through. After S3 you're expecting even greater things only to find out that the show hit its peak and slowly declined to a level that runs parrallel with the 1st half of S2.

I believed then and I still believe now that if Joss hadn't tried to be the David E. Kelley of sci-fi tv, BtVS would have gone on to greatness beyond our imaginations. Buffy became the neglected, absentee-father show (funny how that theme became real-life) once Joss moved on to Angel & Serenity leaving the mother (Noxon) to raise the child when it needed his guidance the most.

nodeerforamonth

Season 5 SUCKED! Big time. Every single episode ended on a downer. Every. Single. One.

MechanicalMan

I enjoyed season 5, even though the whole Dawn thing is stupid. And I don't think season 3 is so great. I hate Faith.

wergo

It was the Ingmar Bergman season, to be sure. But 'Family' had one of the happiest endings of any episode ever.

But, come on, 'Buffy' has a long history of ending episodes on downers, from at least 'I Robot, You Jane.' They were leading up to Buffy being told she has a deat wish, becoming catatonic and then committing suicide - how much happy could have been appropriate?

I'm not a big fan of season one, and I think season two is wildly erratic and I can understand why (if not empathize with) some people were underwhelmed by seasons six and seven, but I still hold seasons three to five to be the epitome of perfect television.

I'm probably ALWAYS gonna be head over heels in love with Willow, but that doesn't mean that I don't want to do things to Faith and have Faith do things to me.

Preferably in a dark alley.

rfduncan

FYI - tfaw.com has Buffy The Vampire Slayer: Season 8 #1 comic book up for pre-order (3/21). I'm going to get a subscription since comic books outlets have grown scarce in recent years.

Breakfast with Girls

Not true. My girlfriend and I just finished watching season 5 (first time for her, probably third for me). In the last few episodes it's revealed that when Glory was exiled she was "implanted" into a male child. It's understood that Ben was already born.

Evil

Wait, I don't quite understand....Are you trying to say that Ben....is Glory?..

wergo

Your secret fantasy to be smacked upside the head by Spike is not so secret any more, now, is it?

wergo

from 'Spiral':

GREGOR: "Such was her power. They feared she would attempt to seize their dimension for herself, and decided to strike first. A great battle erupted. In the end, they stood victorious over the beast ... barely. She was cast out. Banished to this lower plane of existence, forced to live and eventually die trapped within the body of a mortal ... a newborn male, created as her prison. That is the beast's ... only weakness."

Even if you accept that Gregor knows what he's talking about (it's doubtful he was an eyewitness, little less personally involved in said creation) that's pretty ambiguous. My interpretation is that he's saying that Ben was created AS newborn (though, to be fair, that makes even less sense than the monks turning the key into a 14 year old girl) not that they took a newborn and turned him into a prison.

riley_dude

Loved Riley (named my dog after him).
Hated Dawn.

You must be thinking of season 6, right??