Was LOTR The Most Challenging Film Project Of All Time?
12-19-03, 10:10 AM
#1
Was LOTR The Most Challenging Film Project Of All Time?
Challenging in the sense of expectations -- the fandom base is extraordinarily fanatical and fastidious in their obsession over every little detail. If Jackson had gone in and completely changed parts of the books, he'd have been tarred and feathered, and yet the books are not even slightly cinematic.
Challenging in terms of scope -- an entire world essentially had to be created, with a consistent and believable style. There is a huge cast of characters, including a Fellowship of Nine that splits up at one point in four different directions with four seperate storylines. Epic battle scenes involve thousands of human and non-human fighters, each of which would have to be conveyed realistically.
Challenging in terms of budget -- not only were Peter Jackson and his team creating three seperate films at one time, they were also essentially creating their own film studio. An entire CGI lab had to be created from scratch, with brand new software written to create the effects called for by the script. None of the principals had ever done something like this -- the writers had only done five screenplays before tackling one of the seminal works of fantasy literature of the 20th century. Peter Jackson had done some smaller films, but he had never directed a big Hollywood production. Everyone, from the makeup people to the set builders, were virtually reinventing the wheel.
What is most amazing to me is just how much the filmmakers had to overcome -- and how magnificent the finished product turned out to be. I am struggling to come up with something comparable. Gone With The Wind? Maybe. Cleopatra? Perhaps. But kudos to New Line and the entire WETA crew for pulling off what, even today, still simply seems impossible.
Challenging in terms of scope -- an entire world essentially had to be created, with a consistent and believable style. There is a huge cast of characters, including a Fellowship of Nine that splits up at one point in four different directions with four seperate storylines. Epic battle scenes involve thousands of human and non-human fighters, each of which would have to be conveyed realistically.
Challenging in terms of budget -- not only were Peter Jackson and his team creating three seperate films at one time, they were also essentially creating their own film studio. An entire CGI lab had to be created from scratch, with brand new software written to create the effects called for by the script. None of the principals had ever done something like this -- the writers had only done five screenplays before tackling one of the seminal works of fantasy literature of the 20th century. Peter Jackson had done some smaller films, but he had never directed a big Hollywood production. Everyone, from the makeup people to the set builders, were virtually reinventing the wheel.
What is most amazing to me is just how much the filmmakers had to overcome -- and how magnificent the finished product turned out to be. I am struggling to come up with something comparable. Gone With The Wind? Maybe. Cleopatra? Perhaps. But kudos to New Line and the entire WETA crew for pulling off what, even today, still simply seems impossible.
12-19-03, 10:30 AM
#3
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
I dunno. I hate the film, but Titanic definitely ranks up there:
Expectations: everyone was expecting a bomb. The movie was delayed, there was awful news from the set about endless failure, the budget balooned into astronomical levels (over 200 million). Cameron really had to come through.
Scope: filming on water is always a huge challenge, look what Cameron had to go through to get he Abyss done... Titanic was twice as challenginging and easily the equal of LOTR in therms of complexity. Fer crissake, they built the largest tank in the world and a 1/4 scale titanic on hydraulics that they could sink on command. That's pretty insane.
Budget: Titanic not only had the most complex physical effects to date, it also had to set the CGI standard for years to come. The sinking had to look completely realistic or the whole movie flops. Talk about pressure on the effects department. Add the fact that almost the entire movie takes place at sea. Because of that, either you had to have completely believable water effects which is probably the toughest scenery to produce realisticly or shoot everything on the water, the worst place to shoot anything. That's a tall order, especially with 1997 technology. Admittedly, they had a lot of cash to work with, but the demands were unbelievable.
Expectations: everyone was expecting a bomb. The movie was delayed, there was awful news from the set about endless failure, the budget balooned into astronomical levels (over 200 million). Cameron really had to come through.
Scope: filming on water is always a huge challenge, look what Cameron had to go through to get he Abyss done... Titanic was twice as challenginging and easily the equal of LOTR in therms of complexity. Fer crissake, they built the largest tank in the world and a 1/4 scale titanic on hydraulics that they could sink on command. That's pretty insane.
Budget: Titanic not only had the most complex physical effects to date, it also had to set the CGI standard for years to come. The sinking had to look completely realistic or the whole movie flops. Talk about pressure on the effects department. Add the fact that almost the entire movie takes place at sea. Because of that, either you had to have completely believable water effects which is probably the toughest scenery to produce realisticly or shoot everything on the water, the worst place to shoot anything. That's a tall order, especially with 1997 technology. Admittedly, they had a lot of cash to work with, but the demands were unbelievable.
12-19-03, 10:34 AM
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: LA baby
Posts: 294
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Was LOTR The Most Challenging Film Project Of All Time?
[QUOTE]Originally posted by NCMojo
[B]Challenging in the sense of expectations -- the fandom base is extraordinarily fanatical and fastidious in their obsession over every little detail. If Jackson had gone in and completely changed parts of the books, he'd have been tarred and feathered, and yet the books are not even slightly cinematic.
I would have to say that this trilogy is by far the best ever. Not only did it cater to the fans of Tolkien but it also recruited some tolkien fans who had no idea what LOTR was before. I am so impressed at the attention to detail the trilogy had. As an avid D&D fan for years when i was younger i was constantly impressed from the first scene to the last.
[B]Challenging in the sense of expectations -- the fandom base is extraordinarily fanatical and fastidious in their obsession over every little detail. If Jackson had gone in and completely changed parts of the books, he'd have been tarred and feathered, and yet the books are not even slightly cinematic.
I would have to say that this trilogy is by far the best ever. Not only did it cater to the fans of Tolkien but it also recruited some tolkien fans who had no idea what LOTR was before. I am so impressed at the attention to detail the trilogy had. As an avid D&D fan for years when i was younger i was constantly impressed from the first scene to the last.
12-19-03, 11:11 AM
#5
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Fascination Street
Posts: 6,521
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Part of the reason why I have been so enthusiastic about the LOTR films is precisely because there were a billion and one things that could have gone wrong in their making and didn't. It's just evident that everyone who worked on them loved these stories so much that they wanted to do the best job they could, even going beyond their own abilities.
12-19-03, 11:46 AM
#7
DVD Talk Legend
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Second Star on the right, and straight on til' morning...
Posts: 14,808
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
There were some flat aspects to LOTR as well - if anything for CGI (or lack thereof), the usage of hobbit doubles in certain scenes was EXTREMELY obvious - it always took me out of the movie.
12-19-03, 01:25 PM
#9
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Originally posted by peon73
rumor has it with the success of this trilogy, the studios are scrambling to get the dragonlance books licensed and adapted to film...
rumor has it with the success of this trilogy, the studios are scrambling to get the dragonlance books licensed and adapted to film...
I absolutely LOVE Dragonlance but this could be a double-edged sword. Could be great, but it could also swing the other way to "been there, done that" territory.
On topic: I think as far as expectations go, nothing would even come close to Episode 1 and 3 of Star Wars. Cuz for those 2, the fans have it in their head what THEY want to see. For LOTR, there was always the book to act as a guide so there was already a common ground for the film makers and the fans. Unfortunately for Star Wars, what the fans had cooking in their heads for over 20 years was completely different with Lucas' "vision".
Last edited by Kal-El; 12-19-03 at 01:30 PM.
12-19-03, 01:27 PM
#10
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Philly, PA
Posts: 1,754
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dragonlance would make a great trilogy too, as long as the project is run by someone with the same kind of dedication and stuff as Jackson, instead of someone out just to make a buck. But hey, judging by the first D&D movie, it can only get better, right? 
12-19-03, 02:10 PM
#11
I don't think filming a trilogy all at once has been done before. PJ did a pretty good job I think.
12-19-03, 02:18 PM
#12
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Fascination Street
Posts: 6,521
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I knew Dragonlance would be optioned by the time LOTR finished.
I've never read the books, but I hope they turn out well. My best friend did predict after he saw ROTK that we are unfortunately about to enter something akin to that post-OT Star Wars period where every other studio will make a bunch of substandard fantasy films. Hope some writers, directors and development people at the studios have somehow learned important lessons on what makes good fantasy work as films, though I doubt it.
I've never read the books, but I hope they turn out well. My best friend did predict after he saw ROTK that we are unfortunately about to enter something akin to that post-OT Star Wars period where every other studio will make a bunch of substandard fantasy films. Hope some writers, directors and development people at the studios have somehow learned important lessons on what makes good fantasy work as films, though I doubt it.
12-20-03, 10:19 AM
#14
TITANIC was extremely challenging.
I think the reason why Titanic proved to be extremely challenging was the fact Cameron had to build a very expensive set for many of Titanic's sequences at sea in Mexico.
The Lord of the Rings' challenge was the fact Jackson decided to film all three movies simultaneously at the same time; Jackson's investment in WETA Digital made it possible to substantially cut back on location shot costs, since many of the backgrounds were computer-generated.
In my opinion, the most challenging movie project of all time was the 20th Century Fox version of Cleopatra, which cost US$44 million in 1962 dollars (which would be equivalent to around US$500 million today!), which literally bankrupted 20th Century Fox. If a movie studio were to do Cleopatra today it would be far less expensive, thanks to CGI technology that would allow for backgrounds and crowd scenes to be computer-generated (remember the scene were Cleopatra entered Rome from the 1962 movie? Everything on that set was REAL, including the large crowds).
The Lord of the Rings' challenge was the fact Jackson decided to film all three movies simultaneously at the same time; Jackson's investment in WETA Digital made it possible to substantially cut back on location shot costs, since many of the backgrounds were computer-generated.
In my opinion, the most challenging movie project of all time was the 20th Century Fox version of Cleopatra, which cost US$44 million in 1962 dollars (which would be equivalent to around US$500 million today!), which literally bankrupted 20th Century Fox. If a movie studio were to do Cleopatra today it would be far less expensive, thanks to CGI technology that would allow for backgrounds and crowd scenes to be computer-generated (remember the scene were Cleopatra entered Rome from the 1962 movie? Everything on that set was REAL, including the large crowds).
12-20-03, 09:49 PM
#15
Guest
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 847
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Personally, I think "Dances With Wolves" may qualify. Everyone in Hollywood was calling it "Kevin's Gate" (a reference to the disasterous "Heaven's Gate" western) and no one in Hollywood had made a big-budget 3-hour movie that was a success since The Godfather, Part II.
You may not like the film, but it did prove that Hollywood could make good movies longer than 2 hours and keep people's attention spans.
You may not like the film, but it did prove that Hollywood could make good movies longer than 2 hours and keep people's attention spans.
12-20-03, 11:46 PM
#16
DVD Talk Special Edition
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,055
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Hiro11
Fer crissake, they built the largest tank in the world and a 1/4 scale titanic on hydraulics that they could sink on command. That's pretty insane.
Fer crissake, they built the largest tank in the world and a 1/4 scale titanic on hydraulics that they could sink on command. That's pretty insane.
12-20-03, 11:49 PM
#17
DVD Talk Special Edition
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,055
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Spooky
Personally, I think "Dances With Wolves" may qualify. Everyone in Hollywood was calling it "Kevin's Gate" (a reference to the disasterous "Heaven's Gate" western) and no one in Hollywood had made a big-budget 3-hour movie that was a success since The Godfather, Part II.
Personally, I think "Dances With Wolves" may qualify. Everyone in Hollywood was calling it "Kevin's Gate" (a reference to the disasterous "Heaven's Gate" western) and no one in Hollywood had made a big-budget 3-hour movie that was a success since The Godfather, Part II.
12-21-03, 12:43 AM
#18
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Can't believe nobody has mentioned 'Apocalypse Now' yet. Heart attack nearly kills lead actor, hurricanes, budget overruns, guerrila warfare, Dennis Hopper and Marlon Brando's insanity -- watch "Hearts of Darkness" sometime. I think LOTR was an amazing challenge, but there have certainly been a lot of other movies that had tougher productions.
