cupcake jesus

I've watched my Notorious:CC dvd a few times, and something's always kinda bugged me about it...those who did the transfer chose to keep in the "cigarette burns" that indicate a reel change. I really don't know of any other DVD that keeps them in, other than Fight Club (which is the director's intention), and I don't think it was an artistic decision by Hitchcock to have them on his film. In the case of Notorious, they're purely practical for the film, and unnecessary on the DVD.

Is this a common practice with older films, and is this a product of imperfect source material, or an editorial decision? I don't recall my Casablanca or Citizen Kane discs having them. Any help is appreciated.

Drexl

I seriously doubt they chose to keep them in. Probably, the best print they had to do the transfer had them.

renaldow

I've seen some other older films that have the burns in them, I'm assuming it's because that's the best print available.

ctyankee

It's a very common practice with older films. Very common.

smirnoff

I've noticed a cigarette burn in my LOTR: FOTR dvd [EE], I think its right before the balrog jumps out of the ground. I find it odd, but whatever.

talemyn

When did that happen?

Josh H

Couldn't they just edit them out of the frames in which they appear?

Grizzly

my Bullitt R1 is the only disc i can think of that i own that has the cigarette marks on it. it's an old release though.. i think they remove them as best as they can if possible these days now that they actually restore old films for DVD release.

renaldow

I've thought of that too. It seems like it would be fairly simple because it is always right before a scene change. Most of the time it's the exat same framed shot, so that if they really wanted to the people who remaster it could just digitally super-impose whatever is being coverd by the burn using the graphics from previous scenes.

Since I don't remaster films I have no idea of what that might entail; while it seems somewhat small, perhaps it is cost prohibitive, so some studios choose not to go that route.

Pants

Seeing cigarette burns on the transfers of old films is EXTREMELY COMMON. Digital removal of them is possible and is done from time to time. The restoration demonstration on Criterion's Grande Illusion demonstrates cigarette burn removal. But, for every disc that has removed them there's probably 500 that haven't. If you haven't noticed them you aren't watching very many old movies.

I actually prefer them kept in because I like knowing where the reel changes are.

greatjedi

They don't bother me too much in older films, though I prefer that they are removed.
They do bother me in newer films. "The Big Blue" director's cut has all of the reel change markers left in, and that movie's not all that old. I thought that was strange.

Simpson Purist

I wish they'd take out the cigarette burns on the Fight Club DVD.

The people doing the video transfers in the past didn't restore the picture as theroughly as people do today, with high-quality picture/sound being first priority on all DVDs.

Mr. Gore

I was actually disappointed that the cigarette burns were omitted from the American remake of The Ring on DVD. I thought that it was quite clever in that, theatrically, they were circular (more ring-shaped) and not the usual elliptical marks. They figured in nicely with the numerous subliminal images to enforce a creepy ring motif.

I may be wrong, but I thought that Scary Movie 3 repeated the circular style reel-change marks in keeping with its homage/parody of The Ring. I've only seen it once and never confirmed it with anyone.

I also wanted to chime in with what other posters have said about how many older films feature transfers with the marks left intact. It doesn’t necessarily bother me. I wonder if Star Wars: Episode II would look more film-like if George Lucas inserted some cigarette burns on the print? Just kidding.

PortlandFilmGuy

I just watched The Graduate on DVD today; it has cigarette burns.

djtoell

The reel change markers on film prints themselves are circular (well, usually - I've seen some square ones in my time). They only become elliptical when being projected by a scope lens (that is, in 2.35:1). Films being projected flat (that is, with a circular lens - 1.37:1, 1.66:1, 1.85:1) have circular markers. The Ring was no different than any other 1.85:1 film in that regard.

Quote:

I may be wrong, but I thought that Scary Movie 3 repeated the circular style reel-change marks in keeping with its homage/parody of The Ring. I've only seen it once and never confirmed it with anyone.

Right - it was also done in Scary Movie 3 because it was a 1.85:1 film.

DJ

Lethal Nemesis

I was about to say the same thing.

Mr. Gore

Thanks for the clarification, djtoell. I didn't know enough about film projection to realize how the lens affects the image. I have a quick question: is this scope lens effect also true of movie prints when shown on television or DVD? For instance, I just watched Gigi (1958) on TCM on Wednesday, shown (letterboxed, of course) in its original aspect ratio of 2.35:1. The markers were quite elliptical.

djtoell

Typical scope lenses (the ones we see in use whenever we go to see a 2.35:1 film in the theatre) stretch an image out by doubling its width. In order to show a 2.35:1 scope film properly, that effect must always be applied. So even if the film is only being shown on TV, the image must be horizontally stretched, thereby stretching any reel change markers, too.

DJ

chemosh6969

I just watched Nightmare on Elm St. 3 and there was a girl in there with cigarette burns on her arms. Does that count?