Revolutions ---> Revelations?? Any significance?
11-11-03, 12:15 AM
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Revolutions ---> Revelations?? Any significance?
Allright, let me preface this by saying that I am *not* a fan of the Matrix films. I've been pretty dismissive of them for the most part. Still, I was excited when my girlfriend and I saw Reloaded on opening night (typical "event movie" excitement). I thought it sucked... but she didn't, so this last Friday we lined up for Revolutions. This time we agreed that it was terrible. We did stay up discussing the merits (real or not) of the whole trilogy though, and at a certain point she said that maybe the title of this third film is an allusion to the Book of Revelations in the Bible. Neither of us knows much at all about the Bible, so we weren't really equipped to argue it one way or the other.
What do you guys think? I'm leaning toward coincidence, and not starting the thread in order to be won over to any point of view, but it could make for an interesting discussion.
What do you guys think? I'm leaning toward coincidence, and not starting the thread in order to be won over to any point of view, but it could make for an interesting discussion.
11-11-03, 04:51 AM
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Well, the name of the book of the bible is Revelation, not Revelations, so if the Brothers were looking to make the statement you suggest, the movie would have been called "Matrix Revolution".
Am I the only one who gets ticked off when people say "Revelations" instead of "Revelation"? The difference bothers me because there is only ONE Revelation in the book - as opposed to multiple ones. Hence, the name.
Am I the only one who gets ticked off when people say "Revelations" instead of "Revelation"? The difference bothers me because there is only ONE Revelation in the book - as opposed to multiple ones. Hence, the name.
11-11-03, 06:00 AM
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Re: Revolutions ---> Revelations?? Any significance?
Originally posted by Five Cent Deposit
and at a certain point she said that maybe the title of this third film is an allusion to the Book of Revelations in the Bible. Neither of us knows much at all about the Bible, so we weren't really equipped to argue it one way or the other.
and at a certain point she said that maybe the title of this third film is an allusion to the Book of Revelations in the Bible. Neither of us knows much at all about the Bible, so we weren't really equipped to argue it one way or the other.
11-11-03, 08:51 AM
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Originally posted by Spooky
Well, the name of the book of the bible is Revelation, not Revelations, so if the Brothers were looking to make the statement you suggest, the movie would have been called "Matrix Revolution".
Am I the only one who gets ticked off when people say "Revelations" instead of "Revelation"? The difference bothers me because there is only ONE Revelation in the book - as opposed to multiple ones. Hence, the name.
Well, the name of the book of the bible is Revelation, not Revelations, so if the Brothers were looking to make the statement you suggest, the movie would have been called "Matrix Revolution".
Am I the only one who gets ticked off when people say "Revelations" instead of "Revelation"? The difference bothers me because there is only ONE Revelation in the book - as opposed to multiple ones. Hence, the name.
Maybe the Brothers make that mistake too or took that mistake in mind when they thought up the title. Or maybe not. There are way too many religions and philosophies injected in these films to assume that the allegories present are exlusively Christian in nature.
11-11-03, 12:30 PM
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What do you want to bet that some geeks out there will form a "Church of the Matrix"...or has this already happened? Of course, if Monica Bellucci is part of the congregation, I suppose I'd be there every Sunday morning!
11-12-03, 09:31 AM
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Originally posted by Spooky
Am I the only one who gets ticked off when people say "Revelations" instead of "Revelation"?
Am I the only one who gets ticked off when people say "Revelations" instead of "Revelation"?
The only thing that ticked me off about the movie was that Monica Bellucci was in a shiny red dress, but never stood up!
11-12-03, 06:10 PM
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I just don't understand the point in making so called "allusions" to different religions (mainly christianity it seems). All it does is show a lack of originality IMO.
The fact is that if the writters are going to use names like Zion, Nebakanezer, et cetera, and not give us an explanation for it, then its probably cause there is no explanation. They don't know why they used it, they just thought it would sound cool and deep. If they are trying to say that neo is jesus or something that just doesn't make any sense. They basically are just picking out what is useful from religion and anything that doesn't work gets thrown out, but unfortunately that doesn't work because you can't have jesus without god. Jesus never sinned, Neo did. so on and so on.
And I think the title is simpler than some people are thinking, Its just what it means. Revolutions, this trilogy made one revolution, and now its going to start over. and over. yawn....
Thats my opinion.
The fact is that if the writters are going to use names like Zion, Nebakanezer, et cetera, and not give us an explanation for it, then its probably cause there is no explanation. They don't know why they used it, they just thought it would sound cool and deep. If they are trying to say that neo is jesus or something that just doesn't make any sense. They basically are just picking out what is useful from religion and anything that doesn't work gets thrown out, but unfortunately that doesn't work because you can't have jesus without god. Jesus never sinned, Neo did. so on and so on.
And I think the title is simpler than some people are thinking, Its just what it means. Revolutions, this trilogy made one revolution, and now its going to start over. and over. yawn....
Thats my opinion.
11-12-03, 11:31 PM
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Originally posted by smirnoff
The fact is that if the writters are going to use names like Zion, Nebakanezer, et cetera, and not give us an explanation for it, then its probably cause there is no explanation. They don't know why they used it, they just thought it would sound cool and deep. If they are trying to say that neo is jesus or something that just doesn't make any sense. They basically are just picking out what is useful from religion and anything that doesn't work gets thrown out, but unfortunately that doesn't work because you can't have jesus without god. Jesus never sinned, Neo did. so on and so on.
The fact is that if the writters are going to use names like Zion, Nebakanezer, et cetera, and not give us an explanation for it, then its probably cause there is no explanation. They don't know why they used it, they just thought it would sound cool and deep. If they are trying to say that neo is jesus or something that just doesn't make any sense. They basically are just picking out what is useful from religion and anything that doesn't work gets thrown out, but unfortunately that doesn't work because you can't have jesus without god. Jesus never sinned, Neo did. so on and so on.
The movie wasn't based on modern Christianity, anyway. The first movie was basically one big Gnostic Christian allegory, and the subsequent movies have been a mixture of Gnosticism and Buddhism.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06592a.htm, a somewhat biased explanation of Gnosticism.
Last edited by Breakfast with Girls; 11-12-03 at 11:35 PM.
11-14-03, 04:01 PM
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Actually, Spooky, Revelation has 7 distinct visions in it. (I think it's 7) The full name is "A Revelation to John". Basically taken from vs 1, since Bible writers didn't name their writings.
And Revolutions has no similarity to Revelation. There are some similarities to Christian teaching throughout the movies, but nothing direct to this particular book that is outstanding.
And Revolutions has no similarity to Revelation. There are some similarities to Christian teaching throughout the movies, but nothing direct to this particular book that is outstanding.
11-14-03, 04:31 PM
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I think you can make a valid case that the name "Revolutions" sounds very similar to "Revolver" The highlight of the Beatles -
"Revolver" of course is Yellow Submarine.
Yellow Submarine could mean many things in the movie. For example, the lyrics of Yellow Submarine is this:
"So we sailed up to the sun
Till we found the sea of green"
You could make a good argument that when Neo/Trinity fly the ship beyond the clouds, they were sailing up to the sun..and they found the real world.
"Lived a man who sailed to sea
And he told us of his life
In the land of submarines"
And of course, this man is Morpheus..for he tells Neo about the real world - where all men live below the ground in a air tight, secure location.
Of course, if you can't see this, then you are too dumb to enjoy the brillance of the Matrix trilogy. After all, this movie doesn't spoonfeed the easy answers and makes us all think.
"Revolver" of course is Yellow Submarine.
Yellow Submarine could mean many things in the movie. For example, the lyrics of Yellow Submarine is this:
"So we sailed up to the sun
Till we found the sea of green"
You could make a good argument that when Neo/Trinity fly the ship beyond the clouds, they were sailing up to the sun..and they found the real world.
"Lived a man who sailed to sea
And he told us of his life
In the land of submarines"
And of course, this man is Morpheus..for he tells Neo about the real world - where all men live below the ground in a air tight, secure location.
Of course, if you can't see this, then you are too dumb to enjoy the brillance of the Matrix trilogy. After all, this movie doesn't spoonfeed the easy answers and makes us all think.
11-15-03, 12:22 AM
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Originally posted by chanster
Of course, if you can't see this, then you are too dumb to enjoy the brillance of the Matrix trilogy. After all, this movie doesn't spoonfeed the easy answers and makes us all think.
Of course, if you can't see this, then you are too dumb to enjoy the brillance of the Matrix trilogy. After all, this movie doesn't spoonfeed the easy answers and makes us all think.
The fact is that if the writters are going to use names like Zion, Nebakanezer, et cetera, and not give us an explanation for it, then its probably cause there is no explanation.
11-15-03, 11:49 AM
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Originally posted by Spooky
Am I the only one who gets ticked off when people say "Revelations" instead of "Revelation"? The difference bothers me because there is only ONE Revelation in the book - as opposed to multiple ones. Hence, the name.
Am I the only one who gets ticked off when people say "Revelations" instead of "Revelation"? The difference bothers me because there is only ONE Revelation in the book - as opposed to multiple ones. Hence, the name.
Yes, the book is called the "Revelation to John" or "...of John", but it is still just one revelation. All of the visions are like different scences in a movie. Furthermore, this book was written as no more than a fiery locker room speech to fire up people to overthrow the Roman government, so if the Brothers Wachowski were trying to get Biblical and religious, they made a bit of a mistake...
BTW, I haven't seen this movie yet, and I may not see it all. Reloaded ruined The Matrix for me, so I am kind of hesitant to give this final one a chance.
