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View Full Version : DVD-A and SACD - tech questions + review / shopping sites


cruzan
10-20-01, 11:55 AM
Does any one store have the best selection and good prices ?

DVDRules1
10-20-01, 02:55 PM
Both dvdplanet.com and dvdempire.com have good selections, although planet has somewhat better prices.

Eric F
11-25-01, 01:26 PM
Yes, I know this was probably covered a million times, but bear with me.

I want to buy a Progressive DVD player. I'm tired of using my PC for Home Theater, and I figured as long as I'm going that route, I might as well spring for the DVD-A and/or SACD.

As I understand it, there is only one forthcoming DVD player to offer both DVD-A/SACD capability, the Apex AD-7701. While this player is an unknown quantity, I imagine that once they start offering it, other manufacturers will follow suit.

My question is; Do I really need SACD? There are a few good progressive DVD/DVD-A players already available for under $300. Is SACD really worth the wait?

adia4625
11-25-01, 02:02 PM
I suggest getting a DVD-A player. The SACD is produced by Sony only right? I have a feeling the SACD is going the way of the Beta due to the fact they are the only company that will produce them and therefore die a slow death.
Correct me if im wrong.


Stay away from APEX. They are suck. All I hear is that the players die after 6months. Yeah they are cheap but you get what you pay for.

Myster X
11-25-01, 02:14 PM
Wouldn't it be obvious to get a DVD-A for more storage? Isn't a SACD like a regular CD with 700MB but enhanced sound? Anyone have more info on this?

Eric F
11-25-01, 02:30 PM
As I understand it, the SACD format can hold up to 6x as much information as standard CDs and can either be single or double layered.

Also, like DVDs they can hold other information, like video and stills.

CrashMan
11-25-01, 06:11 PM
Sony isn't the only maker of SACD products. Both SACD and DVD-A were created by separate groups of electronics companies. Philips is another SACD company.

Personally, I wouldn't buy either right now. Just like with the recordable DVD formats, something will pull ahead eventually and make the other format obsolete.

Eric F
11-25-01, 09:06 PM
That's why I'm thinking both. Yes, I know Apex isn't exactly known for quality, but SACD players are generally expensive, and Apex is known as having some of the best DAC output. So I'm hoping it will be good for at least that.

Either that one or the Toshiba 5700 looks interesting. Just DVD-A tho.

acostigan
01-07-02, 02:01 PM
I don't have a DVD-A capable player, but I have really enjoyed the Police dts I picked up recently. I'm interested in Fleetwood Mac - Rumors DVD-A; does it also contain a Dolby 5.1 mix?

Thanks,
-AC

gabeon
06-15-02, 03:04 PM
Can anyone tell me if either of these formats are worth buying? I know very little about either format, but I think it would be very cool to hear some of my favorite bands or composers on 5.1 audio...

Are there pros and cons to each format? Is the selection limited?

Thanks in advance.

thejammy
06-17-02, 10:44 AM
it really depends on what you are looking for.

SACD vs Dvd Audio.

There was a great write up about it at techtv.com :)

I have a sacd player. I love the sacd personally myself.

LINK FOR THE LAZY (http://www.techtv.com/freshgear/features/story/0,23008,3371799,00.html)

Brian Shannon
06-17-02, 01:46 PM
I am personally waiting for the dust to settle on this one.

Not enough media yet and a limited selection of players.

I have no great desire to replace either one of my cd or dvd players.

db27
06-18-02, 01:40 PM
I personally can't comment on SACD, however I have several DVD-audio discs that I play on a "standard" non dvd-audio player and it is really amazing. I run them through a DD 5.1 mix on my Boston Acoustics system, and it is like hearing these albums for the first time.

Amazing! I don't know how they could get much better.

toothboy
10-02-02, 11:06 PM
I just got a Super Audio CD player, and I thought I was well versed in the differences between SACD and DVD-A...and then I discover DTS CDs.

I remember when demoing some speakers a couple years ago the salesperson played Sheryl Crowe's "The Globe Sessions" which he referred to as a "DTS-Audio disc." I'm assuming he was referring to the DTS version of the disc that I've been able to find in stores, but I still can't seem to dig up any info on the specifics(encoding, playback, sound quality) of these "DTS CDs."

Anybody with any info or experiences with them, please fill me in, and also let me know if they're worth picking up. Any help would be appreciated.

Alan Smithee
10-10-02, 08:22 PM
DTS CDs can be played on any regular CD player (or DVD player or laserdisc player that plays CDs), but they must be hooked up via digital connector to a DTS-equipped receiver or you will just hear pink noise. That's the main advantage for me- I don't need to buy a new player to listen to these. They are overpriced though.

shaun3000
10-11-02, 12:16 AM
DTS CDs are no where NEAR the quality of SACDs/DVD-A, either. While it does sound very good, the quality doesn't match that of DVD-Audio.

wabio
11-08-02, 10:49 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/ptech/11/08/audio.locks.ap/index.html

New discs: Unfriendly, but better sound
Some urge consumers to wait it out
Friday, November 8, 2002 Posted: 9:38 AM EST (1438 GMT)



DVD-audio discs offer a higher sound quality than CDs, but also prevent the owner from making perfect copies.

SAN FRANCISCO, California (AP) -- Two new digital audio disc formats touted by the music industry for their stellar sound are nowhere near as consumer-friendly as regular old CDs.

They're engineered to be copy-proof.

The proposition thrills digital piracy-fearing record executives. But many audiophiles are cool to the virtual padlocks, which could prove the undoing of one or both formats.

About 1,000 recordings are now available in Super Audio CD or DVD-Audio. Both require special new audio components and produce five-channel sound with superb clarity and definition.

Yet each format contains digital watermarks -- extra encoding designed to lock the recordings on the disc. The intent is to foil digital duplication and ripping to MP3 files.

Moreover, there are no digital outputs on any SACD or DVD-Audio players now available, making them a tough sell despite the discs' higher tonal quality and fuller audio range.

The Audible Difference in Palo Alto, California, is refusing to sell SACD or DVD-Audio players until manufacturers can ship a hybrid unit that plays both formats as well as legacy CDs in the highest quality sound available.

"Until we see a product like that, we're sitting on the sidelines and we're counseling our clients to sit on the sidelines," said Tim Fay, who sells high-end stereo equipment at the store.

How the units fared
The Audible Difference has tested several units, Fay said. It found that the SACD disc playback quality is superb, but the legacy CD playback was not.

None of the 55 members of the Arizona Audiophile Society want players with these hardware limitations, said Don Hoglund, the group's president.

"Some of the members had them and sold them. They got frustrated with the lack of availability of titles and the analog outputs only," he said.

Sony, which developed the SACD format with Philips, says it will continue to make SACD players without digital outputs until there's an industry standard for securing the digital audio stream.

"With high-resolution audio, the need for secure interfaces becomes even greater, since the quality of audio on such formats as SACD is virtually indistinguishable from the master (tape)," said Sony spokesman David Migdal.

Panasonic hasn't incorporated digital outputs into its DVD-Audio players for the same reasons.

Despite the intentions of the manufacturers to limit digital copies, consumers favor such uses for music.

In a recent Gartner G2 survey, 88 percent of respondents said they believed it legal to make copies of CDs for personal backup use while 77 percent felt they should be able to copy a CD for personal use in another device.

Here's how watermarks and copy protection schemes for both DVD-Audio and SACD currently work:

•Sony and Philips have developed Super Audio CD discs that contain two watermarks. One is for visual verification. The second is invisible, authenticates the disc for playback and is introduced during the mastering process. Without the watermark, the disc won't play in a proprietary SACD player.

•Dual layer SACDs exist that contain a second session of legacy CD content that can be played on some existing CD players, but the higher quality SACD tracks can only be played on SACD players.

•DVD-Audio discs use similar encryption technology from a company called Verance. The company's chief technology officer, Joseph Winograd, said the acoustic watermarks cannot be heard by the human ear. The watermarks must be present for the player to recognize the disc and play the content. A bootleg DVD-Audio without the watermark would fail to play, Winograd said.

Verance was contracted to provide the watermark solution by 4C Entity, a consortium of technology companies -- IBM, Intel, Matsushita and Toshiba -- charged with creating an industry encryption standard for protecting audio content for DVD-Audio discs.

The protections come just as prices for computer DVD burners have dropped to as little as $299.

Techie tinkerers will likely also be looking to attack the copy-protection schemes of DVD-Audio and SACD just as the scheme for DVD movies was cracked several years ago.

GartnerG2 analyst P.J. McNealy says the public should be fully informed about the copy protection aspects of these new discs.

"I don't think anybody per se is against copy protected CDs. I think they're against no-labeled copy protected CDs," McNealy said. The labels are optional at this point.

None of the dozens of DVD-Audio and SACD discs examined at Virgin Megastore in San Francisco mentioned the underlying copy-protection scheme in their outer packaging.

Fred von Lohmann, an intellectual property attorney for the Electronic Frontier Foundation, says the onus will be on consumers to make sure they're aware of what they're buying.

"Copyright owners are entitled to use whatever formats they want to use," von Lohmann said. "If they really want to protect their content they can go back to vinyl."

Snowmaker
01-24-03, 01:26 PM
Just curious, since they are both multi-channel formats.

sherm42
01-24-03, 02:21 PM
I'd like to know this too. Can you play them on any DVD player? Do you need something special?

MJKTool
01-24-03, 02:43 PM
From what I know the two different formats are supported by different companies. I know Sony supports Super Audio. You can play a dvd-audio disk's multi channel track in any dvd player, BUT you have to have a dvd-player with the dvd-audio logo if you want to play the high rez track.

JNielsen
01-24-03, 06:16 PM
Heres are a couple of links with some information for you.

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/specsformats/CurrentFormatTrends2.php

http://www.techtv.com/freshgear/features/story/0,23008,3371799,00.html

Both formats require a special DVD-Audio or SACD player in order to decode the multi channel source. Some SACDs contain "regular" CD tracks also. Those can be played in a regular CD player. Most SACD's don't, so they do require new hardware. One of the big things going for DVD audio is that there is enough space on the discs to also provide video, SACD can not do that. Karaoke anyone?

henryfish
01-26-03, 11:11 PM
Does anyone know where I can find a list of DVD-Audio and SACD discs?

flabio
01-28-03, 01:30 AM
Originally posted by henryfish
Does anyone know where I can find a list of DVD-Audio and SACD discs?

http://www.digitalaudioguide.com/

Richard Malloy
01-29-03, 03:48 PM
Here's another good site for high-resolution music news/reviews:
http://www.highfidelityreview.com/index.asp

Let me just say that the purchase of an SACD player has reawakened my love for recorded music. I honestly never thought I could achieve this level of sound quality short of investing massive wads of cash into a turntable-driven, tubes-based system (or massive wads of cash on a Nu-Vista 3D CD player going through a Weiss Medea DAC). If you really care about music, I strongly urge you to begin investigating these formats.

A good forum to learn about this are those run by the great Steve Hoffman. Lots of good SACD-related info (including some of Steve's masterings on SACD), and also a bit of DVD-A info can be found there: http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=2
And also check out the music forums at HTF (DVD Talk simply doesn't have much in the way of SACD/DVD-A talk): http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=16&daysprune=1

And, of course, audioasylum.com...

There are a few sites with listings of titles, but I'd check out the good online retailers for their SACD listings:

SACD: http://www.amusicdirect.com/products/swsearch.asp?dmSearchBy=category&srch=30
DVD-A: http://www.amusicdirect.com/products/swsearch.asp?dmSearchBy=category&srch=70
SACD: http://store.acousticsounds.com/sacd.cfm?section=sacd
And also http://www.elusivedisc.com/

Some of my favorite titles on SACD: all the Miles Davis stuff, particularly "Round About Midnight", "Kind of Blue", and "In a Silent Way", Dylan's "Blonde on Blonde", Beck's "Sea Change", Bowie's "Heathen", Hancock's "Headhunters", Diana Krall's "Look of Love" and "When I Look In Your Eyes", Alison Krauss' "New Favorite", the Rolling Stones' "Beggar's Banquet" and "Let It Bleed", Sonny Rollins' "Saxophone Collosus", John Coltrane's "A Love Supreme", "Ella and Louis", "Getz/Gilberto"... and about 50 more!

And just to whet your appetite, here are a few SACDs coming out this year: Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon", Steely Dan's "Gaucho", Norah Jones "Come Away With Me", The Police's entire catalog, Peter Gabriel's entire catalog, and 15 Bob Dylan albums. And that's for starters.

blakpuc
01-29-03, 05:28 PM
im pissed, I went dvd-audio but now i think its dead. only crappy titles come out. guess ill have to pony up to sacd. i hate sony.

das Monkey
01-29-03, 09:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE> • Quoth blakpuc •<HR SIZE=1>im pissed, I went dvd-audio but now i think its dead. only crappy titles come out. guess ill have to pony up to sacd. i hate sony. <HR SIZE=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll agree with you on the titles. I've been browsing both for a while now and see tons of kickass stuff on SACD and little that intrests me on DVD-A.

das

Richard Malloy
01-30-03, 11:12 AM
i hate sony.
But Sony only did what Warner/Panasonic and the whole DVD-A Forum should have done. Namely, promote their format by subsidizing production and retail costs, build replication facilities to try to stay abreast of demand, and seek out the "big titles" (Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, etc.) that could help establish the new format.

It's not too late for DVD-A, but the DVD-A Forum needs to get serious right now. Unfortunately, considering how poorly AOL-Time Warner (the biggest conglomerate on the DVD-A side) is doing these days, I have my doubts as to whether they'll be able to do the kind of upfront investments and subsidies required to kick-start a new format.

And I think they made a mistake in trying to appeal first to the masses, the so-called "Home theater in a box" crowd. SACD went after the audiophiles first, got a foothold in that niche market, and are now expanding into the mass market.

Again, it's not too late for DVD-A. But it's getting dark quick.

hgar78
01-30-03, 01:42 PM
SACD sound is absolutley amazing! my father bought a player and showed me the difference and i was totally impressed. i, too never realized how much you miss in regular cd transfers but it is unreal!

El Kabong
01-31-03, 12:03 AM
I've had Dvd-A for a while & just got SACD. I'm pretty disappointed that most of the major SACDs are only higher-res stereo & not 5.1 (or SACD Multi-Channel as they call it). Checking the upcoming releases I was excited about- The Police catalog will only be SACD stereo, except the greatest hits which is already out in various 5.1 formats, all 15 Bob Dylan will be stereo, all the recent Stones are stereo. And worst of all, Peter Gabriels whole catalog will be stereo except for his new one. His previous 3 albums (Up, So, Security) all would have sounded incredible in surround (Lay Your Hands On Me). I got a Stones SACD stereo sampler & it didn't sound that much better than a regular cd. I would have thought that major artist releases of classic albums would have gotten new mixes. Why replace my old cd for double the price if it's only remastered stereo. Thank god Dark Side Of The Moon will be Multi-Channel. That's the main reason I got the player. I'd say for that reason alone, I prefer the Dvd-A. Plus you can still get 5.1 or DTS on them on a regular player which is very nice.

benedict
01-31-03, 01:57 PM
<small>Originally posted by El Kabong
I'm pretty disappointed that most of the major SACDs are only higher-res stereo & not 5.1 (or SACD Multi-Channel as they call it).</small>They'll probably try and re-sell them in a few years time with the 5.1 job.

Music companies are extremely manipulative IMNSHO and it is to be hoped that there will one day be a class action on the grounds that this constant stream of new formats and "re-masters" is simply a marketing ploy i.e. they could release material in the "better" format earlier but they actively seek to double, triple and quadruple dip.

I have purchased one or two remasters in my time but some years ago consciously took the decision <i>not</i> to play that game any more. These days I would only replace a CD that was for some reason unplayable.

Richard Malloy
01-31-03, 02:09 PM
They'll probably try and re-sell them in a few years time with the 5.1 job.
Yes, I look forward to finally hearing "Highway 61 Revisited" at it should be... in 5.1 surround! ;)

(Truth is, I hope they reserve a layer for the mono mix on this and the other early Dylan titles, in addition to the stereo mixes. The quad mixes on some of the 70s material would also be a wonderful addition.)

El Kabong
01-31-03, 10:05 PM
I understand that acoustic Dylan might not be demo 5.1 stuff, but a little echo/bleed to the rears to fill the room a little more wouldn't compromise the source. My question is why release them as SACDs if you're not going to utilize the full capabilities. $20 is ridiculous for that (just stereo).

Richard Malloy
02-03-03, 12:32 PM
"Just stereo"?!?

But have you heard the SACD of "Blonde on Blonde" and compared it against the Red Book CD version (or any other SACD against its Red Book counterpart)? I can assure you it's not "just stereo" (or "just mono" as the case may be, e.g., Sonny Rollins "Saxophone Collosus"). Rather, it's stereo (or mono) that's essentially transparent to the source, warm and true and alive. It's not stereo as presented on a conventional CD, with a pinched two-dimensional soundstage and a nasty digital glare. It's like vinyl played through tubes... without the surface noise or the prohibitive equipment costs!

But I do agree that the full capabilities of SACD should be used... but only in service of the music. Albums like "Time out of Mind" and "Love and Theft" would likely sound very nice with a modest "ambient" surround mix, but what should take precedence with the early Dylan albums are the mono mixes. I'd urge inclusion of the quad mixes for the 70's albums, and I'd even applaud a 5.1 remix from the quad stems if that's doable. I may not prefer that track to the stereo one, but I'd like to hear it. Still, this is just the icing; not the cake. To criticize an SACD release of "Highway 61 Revisited" for not including a multichannel mix would be like criticizing a high-definition video disc (think "blue laser") of "Casablanca" for not including a layer with the colorized version. If there's space, well then why not? (Even if only for historical compare/contrast purposes, a la the "Love Conquers All" version of Brazil in Criterion's boxset.) But as a tantamount consideration? No!

One cannot maintain a simple "surround for the sake of surround" ethos, and I think the feeling of multichannel necessity may be part of the problem with the DVD-A format, part of the reason why it's been mired from the outset, stuck in the starting gate, spinning its wheels, and other metaphors for quagmire. It's simply inappropriate for many sources, if not outright impossible to come by. One can very easily end up with crap like the DVD-A discs that Silverline cranks out by the shovel-load, most with essentially mono signals sent to every channel and all completely unlistenable. If you're not familiar with how wrong the "multichannel for multichannel's sake" thing can go, here's one thread on the subject of Silverline's DVD-Audio discs (do a search at any music/audio site, there are many such threads): http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10267

SACD has avoided this by never making multichannel either a requisite nor the primary selling point of the technology. DVD-A, on the other hand, has placed an acute emphasis on multichannel. I'm saying that multichannel is great in some circumstances, often better than stereo IMO. However, I think some see multichannel as being the primary characteristic, the essential mark of DVD-A and SACD. This is an incorrect view. If multichannel is all there is to the formats, then they would represent no improvement over the existing DTS-CDs or Dolby Digital audio tracks.

I think people need to understand this for several reasons. First, some are tracing the problems plaguing DVD-A to the multichannel thing, and the high price associated with creating brand-new multichannel mixes from old stereo or mono elements. Silverline gets around this by simply releasing one botched DVD-A after another, but this is hardly the way to go (most folks I know wouldn't take a Silverline DVD-A, with 2 or 3 exceptions, if you gave it to them in a bag with a free lunch). It would seem, however, that the more reputable companies are simply balking at the price they'd have to pay for not simply a remastering in hi-def, but also a remixing of the original elements by someone with a clue how to do it and very likely the permissions and involvement of the artists who created that music. In some instances, a multichannel remix is surely worth it. In others, it's quite a bit less compelling. Either way, I'd rather hear a high resolution master of a mix I know and love (even if "only" stereo, even if "only" mono) than nothing whatsoever.

Ergyu
02-28-03, 06:58 PM
Isn't SACD owned or created by Sony or something? Anyway, the only reason I ask is because I didn't realize my new DVD-Audio/Video player had SACD also until I read the manual. It wasn't stated on the box or on the front of the bezel, is there probably some legal reasoning behind this? In any case, I'm excited now to know that I can buy Floyd's DSOTM this month!

hmurchison
03-01-03, 02:06 PM
Yes SACD is another Partnership between Phillips and Sony. Both had a hand in it's creation just like the initial CD. They work well together but suffer alone.

ie:

CD- Sony/Phillips creation. Phenomenal success.

Minidisc- Sony only creation. Has failed to match CD's success

DCC- Phillips attemtp to mate Digital Recording on a cassete(bad idea). It died a quick and painful death.

SACD- the next generation. I hear it sounds good but is it too late?? Most people are happy with CD. I'll eventually buy a SACD/DVD-Audio combo player but I doubt I EVER go to buying SACD's or DVD-A discs exclusively some music lends itself to High Rez recording some don't.

Ergyu
03-01-03, 06:24 PM
Thanks for the info. That is funny how two competitors have to work together to make it work. I think I heard something about DCC back in the past but never saw anything of it.

I was reading last night that SACD frequency goes all the way up to some ungodly figure like 2.8Mhz as compared to DVD-Audios 96 Khz.

I bought Queens Night at the Opera and Metallicas Black album yesterday on DVD-audio and I must say the Queen one is absolutely stunning. The Metallica one is a little clearer, and everythign is more defined (IE I am hearing things I never did before, even with headphones.) but It didn't impress me too much in respect to being multichannel.

hmurchison
03-02-03, 03:58 PM
I'll have to check both of those titles out. Some titles lend themselves to Multichannel more than others. I'm making sure I get a Combo SACD/DVD-Audio player so that I'm not locked out of any music. Have you checked out www.highfidelityreview.com. They'll give you the scoop about upcoming SACD and DVD-Audio discs and hardware.

Combo players are coming down to $200 by the end of this year and you'll start seeing more combo/combo units. SADC/DVD-A and a receiver all in one chassis! Should be cool

DIVX Rulz
09-16-03, 02:58 PM
What are the pros and cons of these two audio formats? Is there a web site that lists all the albumns that have been made into DVD-A and SACD as well as a site that explains clearly what the advantages of each are? Please tell me your thoughts and advice

Thanks

Hiro11
09-16-03, 04:05 PM
More and cheaper players can handle DVD-A.

SACD has a standard cd layer and that layer can be played on standard cd players.

...that's all I know.

Giles
09-16-03, 04:11 PM
Isn't there something about SACD players having 6 independent speaker plugs for attaching to 5.1 sound system/receivers, word is that a new Sony SACD player has been upgraded so that all 5.1 channels of sound are routed through one cord (similiar to DVD-Audio).

Gdrlv
09-16-03, 04:13 PM
Not all SACDs have a standard CD layer, though that is starting to look like the trend. If you're going to buy an SACD with the thought that you'll listen to it on your CD player until you get an SACD player, read the packaging carefully.

Also (and this is pure speculation), I thought SACD was beginning to be more widespread than DVD-A. It's certainly seeming to me like more high profile releases are being done on SACD. For example, The Rolling Stones, Bob Dylan and the Police just released the majority of their catalogs on SACD, and Dark Side of the Moon was released to this format as well (the DSOTM SACD is absolutely spectacular, by the way...perhaps the most enjoyable surround sound experience I've ever had with music).

Celtic Bob
10-18-03, 07:03 AM
This has probably been asked a million times but I couldnot find the answer.
Will a regular DVD player play DVD-Audio discs? I have a Sony DVP-NS725P.
tks
cb

Kevo
10-18-03, 07:56 AM
It has, you are the millionth and first person to ask this ;)

Yes it will play the 'normal' 5.1 sound like you get on DVD films but NOT the 'advanced resolution' (supposedly higher quality) mix. For this you will need a 'DVD Audio' capable player.

Celtic Bob
10-18-03, 08:43 AM
Excellant.
Thanks. This will do untill I get a "Real" player.

cungar
10-18-03, 02:20 PM
I'd be a bit hesitant. DVD-A is not exactly taking the audio world by storm. The releases are slowly trickling out but not exactly what many had wished. With prime titles like Dark Side of the Moon coming out only on SACD, I'd say the future is hazy at best for this format.

Celtic Bob
10-18-03, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by cungar
I'd be a bit hesitant. DVD-A is not exactly taking the audio world by storm. The releases are slowly trickling out but not exactly what many had wished. With prime titles like Dark Side of the Moon coming out only on SACD, I'd say the future is hazy at best for this format.

That is why I have an SACD player BUT there are a few titles i'd like to own that are on DVD-A (Neil Young, G.Dead...).

Ergyu
10-18-03, 04:20 PM
Not to be too off topic, but I already have a full on DVD A player, and was looking to get a SACD player (I bought DSOTM and my dvd player said it was SACD compatible too....then I found out only in Asia lol.)


Anyone know of a ok SACD player in the range of sub $200? It doesn't need to do anything but SACD.

Celtic Bob
10-18-03, 04:58 PM
I got a Sony SACD for around $200. It was last years discontinued model. :)
Model; SCD XE670

alanstar@erols.com
10-19-03, 02:30 AM
Anyone know of a ok SACD player in the range of sub $200? It doesn't need to do anything but SACD. [/B]


The new Pioneer DV-563A plays DVD, DVD-Audio and SACD. Bought one two weeks ago at Best Buy for $170.99.

Ergyu
10-19-03, 04:33 AM
Originally posted by alanstar@erols.com
The new Pioneer DV-563A plays DVD, DVD-Audio and SACD. Bought one two weeks ago at Best Buy for $170.99.

Damn really? That must be a newer version of my player, cuz it's exactly the same, but was like $250 bucks last year. It had a sticker on the front that said SACD compatible, but after an hour of messing with it and getting frustrated, I finally found the line in the manual that says "asian models only." I was pissed.

Anyway, that's a good deal, then all my components could stay Pioneer! Thanks

dotheDVDeed
10-22-03, 02:41 PM
Well, I bought my first DVD-Audio title. Like many I think there's certainly more of a future in SACD (especially hybrid-titles). But I broke down and bought America's Homecoming--a personal favorite of mine that I'm afraid might go out of print.

The packaging says it comes with DTS but I can't figure out how you get DTS sound out with a regular DVD Video player. My system is fully capable of playing DTS Video titles (Hell Freezes Over is one of my favorites) but I can't figure this riddle out. Incorrect labelling on this release? DTS only available with a DVD audio player?---Then wouldn't I just listen DVD audio and not the DTS?

Any help would be appreciated.

TIM

nazz
10-23-03, 12:55 AM
Originally posted by dotheDVDeed
Well, I bought my first DVD-Audio title. Like many I think there's certainly more of a future in SACD (especially hybrid-titles). But I broke down and bought America's Homecoming--a personal favorite of mine that I'm afraid might go out of print.

The packaging says it comes with DTS but I can't figure out how you get DTS sound out with a regular DVD Video player. My system is fully capable of playing DTS Video titles (Hell Freezes Over is one of my favorites) but I can't figure this riddle out. Incorrect labelling on this release? DTS only available with a DVD audio player?---Then wouldn't I just listen DVD audio and not the DTS?

Any help would be appreciated.

TIM


The linked review on this disc unfortunately contains this statement:
You should note that the reference to a DTS soundtrack on the packaging is erroneous - there is no such soundtrack on the disc.


http://www.michaeldvd.com.au/Reviews/Reviews.asp?ReviewID=1856

dotheDVDeed
10-23-03, 11:10 AM
Well, I'm glad I'm not losing my mind..... yet...

Now where do I get that half-hour of my life that I spent mucking around trying to find the non-existent DTS soundtrack? ;-)

Thanks again for going out of your way and finding that link.

That Pioneer multi-format player is calling to me... maybe a present to myself for Xmas!

TIM

elshagon
10-23-03, 10:32 PM
Remember, dvd-a hybrids will be coming out shortly, in the next month or two. I have the Pioneer player, so I consider myself fairly unbiased in the dvd-a vs sacd war. For me it's more about listening to good music and both formats have their fair share. I don't think either format is clearly doing better than the other. Sacd has the hybrid capability (dvd-a will soon be hybrid) and dvd-a has video playback capability so they both have plusses and minuses. Back to the topic: For under $200 go get the Pioneer, it's the best way to get introduced to both formats without spending much money.

outlaw1323
10-24-03, 01:40 PM
I just got a sacd/dvd audio player and I am looking for some music. Best buy had some but are there any online stores that have large selections of sacd and dvd audio.

woofman
10-24-03, 02:19 PM
dvdempire.com for DVD-Audio

musick
10-24-03, 04:48 PM
amusicdirect.com

dvd-a
http://amusicdirect.com/products/swsearch.asp?dmSearchBy=category&srch=70

sacd
http://amusicdirect.com/products/swsearch.asp?dmSearchBy=category&srch=30

elshagon
10-24-03, 06:47 PM
circuitcity.com has decent selection and price on both formats with free shipping.

Spiderbite
10-25-03, 08:29 AM
Best prices I have seen for DVD-A are at digitaleyes.net and deepdiscountdvd.com. DDD has just recently started carrying DVD-A.

KV12482
11-25-03, 11:40 PM
I can't seem to find any dvd players that play both SACD and DVD-Audio. Does anyone know of any models that do???

Thanks

Kyle

cungar
11-26-03, 12:01 AM
Here's the cheapest one on the market. A lot of folks say it's a great unit. I may pick one up for Christmas.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1055388006567&skuId=5585379&type=product

Ergyu
11-26-03, 12:47 AM
Yep, I have the non SACD version of this from last year. It's a great player, and DVD audio sounds great on it. I'm going to be getting this one with some Xmas money hopefully to replace mine so I can listen to my Dark side of the moon disc.

KV12482
11-26-03, 09:42 AM
Thanks a lot!!!

Kyle

Illinois Enema Bandit
11-26-03, 09:43 AM
If price is your concern, the Pioneer unit that cungar linked to is your best bet. Other universal players are rather $$$: Denon, for instance, offers the DVD-2200 for around $600 and the DVD-2900 for about $900. I have the 2900 and am very pleased with it

emoxley
11-26-03, 09:51 AM
I have the Pioneer DV-563A that cungar's link takes you to. I love it! It's the best piece of equipment I've bought in years. Has a great picture and sound. It's progressive scan, if you have an HD ready tv. You ONLY get sacd and dvd-a multi channel surround, by using the analog outputs on the back of it. So, your receiver has to have the analog inputs. The sacd and dvd-a Hi Rez music does NOT work thru the digital outputs..........
Get it, and you won't be sorry. :)

Giles
11-26-03, 09:59 AM
word is that 2004 multi-format DVD/CD/SACD/DVD-audio players will have single digital output for all sound to get routed through receivers.

gdjohnson
11-30-03, 06:33 PM
I also bought one of the Pioneer DV-563A player. It does a great job with every type of dics I've put in it. I do need a receiver with at least a 6 channel analog input to play DVD-A or SACD discs.
As for DVD-A or SACD connecting with one cable, it will more likely be something like a 1394 Fire Wire cable rather than one of the existing digital cables (optical or coax) we know now. The decoders will stay locked up in the players as the record companies fear copying so much.
Greg

cungar
12-01-03, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by gdjohnson
I also bought one of the Pioneer DV-563A player. It does a great job with every type of dics I've put in it. I do need a receiver with at least a 6 channel analog input to play DVD-A or SACD discs. Greg

Now wait I'm confused here (a common problem). I thought the only true digital input was the optical cable. With the 6 channel analog cables are you losing anything sound wise or is the only advantage of the optical cable, the fact that it's a single cable that divides up the channels optically?

Actually the 6 cables is better for me since both my optical inputs are used.

Illinois Enema Bandit
12-01-03, 04:56 PM
Originally posted by cungar
I thought the only true digital input was the optical cable. With the 6 channel analog cables are you losing anything sound wise or is the only advantage of the optical cable, the fact that it's a single cable that divides up the channels optically?

There's usually 2 possible digital connections: optical and coaxial. The optical/coax connections feed a digital bitstream to your receiver, which then handles the digital -> analog conversion and bass management for sound output.

For multi-format players, the DAC is handled in the player, and I suppose it depends on the quality of the DAC components as to whether any signal is lost (bass mgmt for SACD/DVD-A is also handled by the player). Perhaps someone who is more knowledgeable about the hardware could go into greater detail

parky
12-03-03, 12:06 AM
The difference between the analog and digital outputs are that when you use the analog outputs, the DVD player is decoding the signal and sending each channel to the pre-amp seperately. The Coax or optical out sends the digital signal to the receiver, which then decodes the signal. All sound is analog by the time it hits your speaker, its all a matter of when it gets decoded. Usually when listening to music its better to use analog cables, but the overall quality depends on what kind of analog (RCA) cables you can afford. My expereince is that if You use very high quality analog cables the sound will be much better than the digital feed. I have the Denon DVD-2900, which is a pretty heavy duty player so that may have something to do with it :)

Shay
12-03-03, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by parky
The difference between the analog and digital outputs are that when you use the analog outputs, the DVD player is decoding the signal and sending each channel to the pre-amp seperately. The Coax or optical out sends the digital signal to the receiver, which then decodes the signal. All sound is analog by the time it hits your speaker, its all a matter of when it gets decoded. Usually when listening to music its better to use analog cables, but the overall quality depends on what kind of analog (RCA) cables you can afford. My expereince is that if You use very high quality analog cables the sound will be much better than the digital feed. I have the Denon DVD-2900, which is a pretty heavy duty player so that may have something to do with it :)
Parky, the quality of the sound is not going to depend on the type of cables you use, but the quality of the digitial to analogue converter. Typically the receiver will have the better d/a converter, but not always.

Is there any SACD that passes the signal back on the digitial output?

db27
12-03-03, 11:10 PM
I can vouch for the Pioneer 563A as an excellent all-around player, you won't be disappointed.

gdjohnson
12-06-03, 01:13 AM
Yes there are SACD/DVD-A players that has a single cable connection. The Pioneer Elite DV-47Ai & DV59AVi players use a connect called the "i"link that only comes with a Pioneer Elite Receiver like the VSX-49TXi. The "i" link is really a 1394 firewire cable.
On a DV59AVi there is a device (Dimensional Resolultion Expander) that takes standard definition images and up converts them to 720p or 1080i. This isn't true HD but it's heading there. The down side is that you need a Pioneer Elite HDTV with another special connection type (HDMI which I think is a new name for a DVI), are you starting the see a pattern here.
Greg

Sirgey
12-07-03, 07:54 PM
I picked up one of the pioneer's today since best buy have them on sale this week and I had one of the 20% coupons. I am very pleased with it so far. I picked up the SACD of the darkside of the moon, and I had the DVD-A Flaming Lips Yoshimi vs. the pink robots. Can anyone else recommend a few disks that really explore the potential of this player.
Thanks,
Sirgey

Steveweiser
12-08-03, 09:18 PM
So would you guys recommend getting the Pioneer some time over the next few weeks, or waiting for the digital output hybrid models? Are there any supposed to come out around Christmas?

proddy
02-20-04, 09:18 AM
Can anyone recommend a good website that publishes upcoming releases in these formats?

Any info would be much appreciated.

Giles
02-20-04, 10:30 AM
www.musictap.net is one that comes to mind.

whaaat
02-20-04, 11:19 AM
For SACDs, check www.sacdinfo.com.

proddy
02-20-04, 02:03 PM
Thanks.

Aphex Twin
02-20-04, 02:12 PM
In terms of fidelity, which SACDs and DVD-As have been the best? Let's say the system you will be playing it on has a $2,000 amp and $2,000 speakers. What albums really push the system sonically?

cungar
02-20-04, 03:05 PM
Flaming Lips - Yoshmi Vs the Pink Robots is the Best DVD-A out there hands down. If you want to push your system to the limit this is it.

Also

SACD
Beck - Sea Change
Pink Floyd DSOTM
Elton John GYBR

DVD_A
Richard Thompson - Rumour and Sigh
REM Automatic for the People

Jack Straw
02-28-04, 05:55 PM
I was browsing around my local Tower and saw ELP's "Brain Salad Surgery" on DVD-Audio. Since I had a hunch that this title would really lend itself to a 5.1 mix, I bought it. After listening to it I wasn't disappointed. It also has some fantastic music on it to boot. I'm looking to get Queen's "Opera" title next. Any other titles I should consider?

JimmyGator
10-16-04, 12:30 PM
I'm interested in buying Super Audio CD's but I have a few questions before purchasing any. Do all SACD's have an enhanced stereo track? I heard that The Who Tommy SACD has the original stero version and the 5.1 version only. Is this true. I also wanted to know what's the best online website that offers the best deals on SACD's? I appreciate any help. Thanks

chowchris13
10-16-04, 04:52 PM
Most of enhanced stereo tracks...

bdrules
10-17-04, 03:57 AM
I think it is a requirement that all SACDs have an uncompressed stereo track.

Brian

K&AJones
11-13-04, 10:54 AM
Hello


Is there a site that's devoted to both formats with reviews, lists of available disks, and places to buy? It seems every store I go in there's not much on the shelf to even look at.


Kenny J.

caiman
04-30-05, 06:14 AM
Tonight I picked up the remastered version of NIN's The Downward Spiral dualdisc. I was kindof confused for a while whether I would at all benefit from the 5.1 mix, since I only have a standard DVD player (no DVD-a or SACD). But the package said it can be played in any normal DVD player, so I bought it.

So playing it in my DVD player, the 5.1 mix sounds excellent. But my question is, would it sound even better if I had a DVD-A player? I really don't know much about DVD-A (or SACD), so what are the main differences between it and 5.1 audio from a standard DVD player? If I were to put the Downward Spiral dualdisc into a DVD-A player, would it sound even better than what I experienced?

EDIT: Oh, and another point of confusion: If, hypothetically, I were to put the disc in a DVD-A player, which side would I play, the CD side or the DVD side?

jarofclay73
04-30-05, 09:37 AM
Tonight I picked up the remastered version of NIN's The Downward Spiral dualdisc. I was kindof confused for a while whether I would at all benefit from the 5.1 mix, since I only have a standard DVD player (no DVD-a or SACD). But the package said it can be played in any normal DVD player, so I bought it.

So playing it in my DVD player, the 5.1 mix sounds excellent. But my question is, would it sound even better if I had a DVD-A player? I really don't know much about DVD-A (or SACD), so what are the main differences between it and 5.1 audio from a standard DVD player? If I were to put the Downward Spiral dualdisc into a DVD-A player, would it sound even better than what I experienced?

EDIT: Oh, and another point of confusion: If, hypothetically, I were to put the disc in a DVD-A player, which side would I play, the CD side or the DVD side?

In a nutshell, NO. You won't get better results by playing it in a DVD-Audio player. That's because the DualDiscs are encoded pretty much like a normal DVD is -- at 16-bit, 44.1khz (or sometimes 48khz) 5.1 surround. DVD-Audio discs have an Advanced Resolution track at 24-bit, 96khz (or sometimes 88khz) 5.1 surround which can only be heard on a DVD-Audio player (which, in my opinion, sounds fantastic). The good thing about DVD-A is that it usually also has a 16-bit, 44.1khz 5.1 track which can be played in most DVD players.

So, to answer your last question, if you want to hear the album in stereo, play the CD side. If you want to hear it in 5.1 surround or stereo, play the DVD side. The DVD-A player can play either side.

So, really, no one has to get a DVD-Audio player unless they're going to play DVD-Audio discs.

FrozenMetalHead
04-30-05, 10:17 AM
DualDiscs are encoded pretty much like a normal DVD is -- at 16-bit, 44.1khz (or sometimes 48khz) 5.1 surround. DVD-Audio discs have an Advanced Resolution track at 24-bit, 96khz (or sometimes 88khz) 5.1 surround which can only be heard on a DVD-Audio player (which, in my opinion, sounds fantastic).

Is this due to a limitation of the DualDisc? What's the reasoning for not making it a full DVD-A side?

gerrythedon
04-30-05, 02:27 PM
I have 3 albums on DVD-A

METALLICA: None More Black [Sounds Fk'n Amazing]
R.E.M.: In Time (Best of...) [Sounds real good]
MANA: MTV Unplugged

I want to get FOO FIGHTERS "One by One"... does anyone have it/how does it sound? Is it worht it?, etc.

...also thinking of getting my first Dual Disc [LAMB of GOD "Ashes of the Wake"], anyone have it/what's u're review on it? I want it but I have read bad things about DD.... let me know.

jarofclay73
04-30-05, 05:44 PM
Is this due to a limitation of the DualDisc? What's the reasoning for not making it a full DVD-A side?

Well, to start DualDisc is made by Sony, which made the SACD format and competes directly against DVD-Audio. So, there will be no DVD-A side on a DualDisc.

Secondly, I'm sure Sony wants to be able to play their DualDisc in any normal DVD player, unlike SACD or DVD-Audio. I picked up a couple of DualDiscs on the strength of playability on my 5.1 system and not needing any "special" equipment.

On a different note, I noticed at the Sony Music Store (http://www.sonymusicstore.com/store/) that Sony is pushing its DualDisc but haven't seen anything on SACD. Last year, an article came out saying that DVD-Audio was selling 5 times better than SACD. (http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/5176.cfm) So, I wonder if the DualDisc is being set up to counter DVD-A since nearly all DVD-As can play in normal DVD players. Plus, using the DVD format, Sony is able to couple videos with the DualDisc.

So, I wonder if SACD is dead, if only in Sony's eyes?...

Zodo
04-30-05, 08:06 PM
jarofclay:

Can you answer me why several DualDiscs state "high resolution stereo and surround layback on dvd-audio players" in addition to listing "dolby digital stereo and surround playback on standard dvd players"?


Also, how much better does a DVD-Audio disc sound over just a 5.1surround track? Does it really depend on what kind of setup you have? I have a fairly low end surround system, so I'm wondering if I'd hear the difference at all.

cungar
04-30-05, 09:10 PM
jarofclay:

Can you answer me why several DualDiscs state "high resolution stereo and surround layback on dvd-audio players" in addition to listing "dolby digital stereo and surround playback on standard dvd players"?


Also, how much better does a DVD-Audio disc sound over just a 5.1surround track? Does it really depend on what kind of setup you have? I have a fairly low end surround system, so I'm wondering if I'd hear the difference at all.

On alow end system you won't notice enough of a difference to warrant the price of a DVD-Audio player. Plus unless you're an audiophile, these differences will vary depending on your ear.

Njål
05-01-05, 09:07 AM
Well, to start DualDisc is made by Sony, which made the SACD format and competes directly against DVD-Audio. So, there will be no DVD-A side on a DualDisc.

Secondly, I'm sure Sony wants to be able to play their DualDisc in any normal DVD player, unlike SACD or DVD-Audio. I picked up a couple of DualDiscs on the strength of playability on my 5.1 system and not needing any "special" equipment.


This is simply not true.
Sony is just one of the companies making DualDisc. The others (Warner, Universal and others) are mostly releasing stuff with higher resolution PCM, or what is effectively a DVDA (which might or might not use MLP for compression).

jarofclay73
05-01-05, 11:20 AM
This is simply not true.
Sony is just one of the companies making DualDisc. The others (Warner, Universal and others) are mostly releasing stuff with higher resolution PCM, or what is effectively a DVDA (which might or might not use MLP for compression).

Okay. My mistake. I've only so far seen Sony DualDiscs and only bought Sony DualDiscs. I scoured the internet better and it seems Amazon.com somewhat shows which discs have Advanced Resolution music or not. The DualDiscs on Amazon.com which has Adv. Res. shows it with an [ENHANCED]. But, the bad thing is that the description of the disc doesn't always explicitly say that the disc has Adv. Res. So, sometimes I look at the comments or just be totally in the dark. Maybe I'll have to go to Tower Records and check all the ones I want to buy.

Also, I should add that some DualDiscs do NOT come with 5.1 surround, so if that's your selling point, like me, you need to check the packaging very carefully.

jarofclay73
05-01-05, 12:05 PM
jarofclay:

Can you answer me why several DualDiscs state "high resolution stereo and surround layback on dvd-audio players" in addition to listing "dolby digital stereo and surround playback on standard dvd players"?

Also, how much better does a DVD-Audio disc sound over just a 5.1surround track? Does it really depend on what kind of setup you have? I have a fairly low end surround system, so I'm wondering if I'd hear the difference at all.

First, Njål answered your first question. I'm going to check out those DualDiscs which feature high-res. I'll probably get the Keane DualDisc.

Now for your second question, how much better does DVD-A/MLP over a normal DVD 5.1 surround? Well, I've had a great time with DVD-A. To me, the sound imaging on DVD-A is much better than a normal DVD 5.1. In my opinion, the sound seems to be coming from outside of your speakers than directly from them. It's hard to explain. The sound is "rounder" and more dynamic. And, to me, the surround elements are more distinct.

I have a JVC TH-C5 system. It's not the bottom of the barrel, but I would still consider it "low-end" since the price of the whole system including speakers is sub-$500. I can definitely tell the difference between DVD-A and normal 5.1. In fact, yesterday I had bought two DualDiscs and two DVD-As came for me in the mail. So, I spent an afternoon listening to everything and the difference is quite noticeable.

But, even surround mixes in their own category differ in quality. There are bad DVD-A surround mixes and bad normal surround mixes. For example, I bought Switchfoot's "The Beautiful Letdown" and Mercy Me's "Undone" both on DualDisc. I was a little disappointed with the 5.1 mix on the Switchfoot album. When there was heavy guitar, it seemed to be really muddy. In this case, even the stereo/CD version of the same song sounded better in my opinion. Since Mercy Me has a more varied band sound (meaning more diversity in its instruments), the 5.1 surround tracks seem to play better.

While I haven't bought a guitar-heavy album like Metallica on DVD-A, I bought Foreigner's "4" on DVD-A and the guitars on there are really clear and lush.

Now, you're wondering whether you want to take the DVD-A plunge. Well, it's fairly tough to get into DVD-A immediately if you have a fairly low-end system. If your receiver doesn't have 6-channel analog inputs, then you need to get a new receiver AND player. Or, you could do what I did and buy a DVD-A player/receiver combo. It's not as good as buying them separately but it's a cheaper solution.

jarofclay73
05-01-05, 07:37 PM
I found Universal's site with all its DualDiscs which play Advanced Resolution (http://consumers.umusic.com/dd/releases.html) . The only thing about these is that it plays Advanced Resolution Surround Sound at 48khz, 24-bit but it plays the Advanced Resolution Stereo at 96khz, 24-bit. Boo. The only DVD-Audio disc I know which plays at 48khz is Sting's "Brand New Day" which I didn't get because of that fact.

I guess I'll have to buy Keane to check this out.

woofman
05-02-05, 06:18 PM
I have 3 albums on DVD-A

METALLICA: None More Black [Sounds Fk'n Amazing]
R.E.M.: In Time (Best of...) [Sounds real good]
MANA: MTV Unplugged

I want to get FOO FIGHTERS "One by One"... does anyone have it/how does it sound? Is it worht it?, etc.


One by One is great. Subtle yet effective surround envelopment especially with the guitars, which I think really improves the music. Worth buying if you have a good surround system and can really pic up the nuances.

gerrythedon
05-02-05, 10:56 PM
One by One is great. Subtle yet effective surround envelopment especially with the guitars, which I think really improves the music. Worth buying if you have a good surround system and can really pic up the nuances.


Cool, thanks... I'll make it my Fourth DVD-A.

jarofclay73
05-04-05, 03:12 PM
Keane DualDisc is very nice. It's also my first taste of 48khz, 24-bit Advanced Resolution. Now, I'm wondering if I should get Sting's "Brand New Day" on DVD-Audio.

jiggawhat
05-06-05, 01:47 PM
The two that I have are Linkin Park and Crystal Method Legion of Boom and I have to say that it sounds superb especially CM.

jarofclay73
03-25-06, 08:36 AM
My family just got an Acura TL (http://www.acura.com/) and that means it's just another good excuse to get more DVD-Audio discs!

I haven't been keeping up with it lately and discs don't come out that often anyway.

Here's my latest batch of buys:

Talking Heads - Fear Of Music (Dualdisc/DVD-Audio)
Talking Heads - Remain In Light (Dualdisc/DVD-Audio)
Talking Heads - Speaking In Tongues (Dualdisc/DVD-Audio)
Dire Straits - Brothers In Arms (Dualdics/DVD-Audio)
Bon Jovi - Slippery When Wet (Dualdisc/DVD-Audio)

The Talking Heads albums are DEFINITELY the best Dualdiscs I've ever heard. I haven't bothered with the CD side, but the 5.1 DVD-A side is GREAT! My favorite is "Fear Of Music" but that's just my taste in music.

The Dire Straits Dualdisc is really good too. Can't really complain about anything there.

The Bon Jovi Dualdisc is okay but I guess you can't do too much with Bon Jovi. Certain percussion sounds, keyboards and other effects are smattered across the 5.1 surrounds, but other than that the guitars, bass and vocals seem to be mixed more or less in stereo. Still, "Slippery When Wet" never sounded this good.

Searching some music websites, I noticed there is yet another "made up" format called HDAD which stands for "Hybrid DVD Audio Disc." It's basically a two-sided DVD disc with DVD-Audio encoded on one side and DVD-Video on the other. I know the anti-flippper contingent will cringe at HDAD (as it has on Dualdiscs).

So, I think my first HDAD purchase will be the Alan Parsons Project's "Eye In The Sky."

I have to admit that Dualdiscs and HDAD are compromises and not perfect, but if this is how we can continue DVD-Audio, then I'm all for it.

For the record, I'm only buying Dualdiscs with DVD-Audio content.

darkside
03-25-06, 02:17 PM
I am really finding a new love of music since picking up my Denon 2910. SACD, DVD-A and even HDCD has really had me spending more and more time listening to music on my stereo and less and less time using an iPod. I can't even describe how awful music on an iPod sounds now. Thanks to yourmusic.com and the 50% off of everything at Sam Goody I have picked up several discs.

There is definitely a difference in sound quality even on the stereo SACDs and to tell the truth regular CDs sound better on the Denon though not up to the quality of the SACD and DVD-A discs.

So far I have the following.

SACD:
Pink Floyd: Dark Side of the Moon (5.1)
Derrick and the Dominoes: Layla (5.1)
Creedence Clearwater Revival: Willy and the Poor Boys (stereo)
Igor Stravinsky: Petrouchka & Firebird (London Symphony) (5.1)
Beethoven: Piano Concerto No. 5 & Symphony No 5 (Boston Symphony) (stereo)

DVD-A
Queensryche: Empire (5.1)

HDCD
Van Halen
Van Halen: II
Van Halen: Women and Children First
Van Halen: Fair Warning
Van Halen: Diver Down
Van Halen: 1984
Brian Setzer Orchestra: Vavoom

I also have the SACDs of the Shaft Soundtrack and The Miles Davis Quintet: Relaxin' on the way.
Doesn't look like any of the formats are doing that well and that Dual Disc may be the only way left to get any new releases in DVD Audio, but I am picking up what titles I can find and definitely enjoying them. I noticed that Best Buy has the Deluxe edition of Nine Inch Nails Downward Spiral for $19.99 this week and that main discs is a SACD so I may go pick that up.

Tommy Ceez
03-26-06, 02:11 AM
Im thinking about jumping on board...would a refurb cheapie Universal DVD player suit my needs? (I would only need it to play CD SACD and DVD-A's (oh, and Divx) as I will be keeping my regular DVD player connected)

Plus where do you buy your disks? BB and CC dont even have a seperate section.

Oh, and with the hybrids...if I put them in the comp, would EAC only read teh CD portion for ripping and copying (I make a seperate disk for the car)?

fliggil
03-26-06, 09:53 AM
Im thinking about jumping on board...would a refurb cheapie Universal DVD player suit my needs? (I would only need it to play CD SACD and DVD-A's (oh, and Divx) as I will be keeping my regular DVD player connected)

Plus where do you buy your disks? BB and CC dont even have a seperate section.

Oh, and with the hybrids...if I put them in the comp, would EAC only read teh CD portion for ripping and copying (I make a seperate disk for the car)?

Tommy - You can find a nice Pioneer that'll play SACD and DVD-A for $100 new on ebay, also some similar Toshiba models floating around I believe. Best Buy has a very small dedicated DVD-A and SACD section, at least at my stores, although their prices usually aren't anything special. acousticsounds.com has a very large store, plus you can always look to ebay for used discs. Borders has a good selection of classical SACD (Living Stereo collection) for $12 a pop. As far as hybrids go, neither of my PC's drives will read any hybrid disc at all, but I've heard other people have been able to play back the CD layer on their PC without problem, so I guess it depends on what CD drive you have.

darkside
03-26-06, 01:16 PM
Plus where do you buy your disks? BB and CC dont even have a seperate section.

Oh, and with the hybrids...if I put them in the comp, would EAC only read teh CD portion for ripping and copying (I make a seperate disk for the car)?

My Best Buy still has a small section (one rack) of SACDs and DVD Audio together, but its a pretty slim selection that is pricey. Online seems to be the best bet. I had a hell of a time running down a copy of Dark Side of the Moon and ended finding a copy at Borders. I'm going to use those Border's discount coupons to pick up a title here and there I can't find for a good price online.

www.yourmusic.com still has 50+ SACDs and they sell them all for $5.99 (free shipping) if they are single discs. Its a BMG club thing though and you have to buy at least one CD a month to keep your account open, but there is no set amount to buy so you can make one purchase and close the account. Its basically always $5.99 a disc for whatever you buy. Just search for SACD under title and about 4 pages of options will appear. They also sell dualdiscs for $5.99 though that selection is very limited.

SACD hybrids play and rip with no problem in my PC and laptop and that is one of the reasons I am buying SACDs over DVD Audios when possible. I would like the option of using it as a CD from time to time and this is never an option with pure DVD Audios and even Dualdiscs have limitations where they can be played.

Decker
03-26-06, 02:13 PM
Yeah, I've put together a nice SACD library from yourmusic.com over the past year:
Elton John : Elton John
Elton John : Goodbye Yellow Brick Road
Elton John : Captain Fantastic
Elton John : Tumbleweed Connection
Elton John : Madman Across The Water
Bob Dylan : Blood On The Tracks
Bob Dylan : Highway 51 Revisited
Bob Dylan : Another Side of Bob Dylan
Eric Clapton : Slowhand
Eric Clapton : 461 Ocean Blvd
Sheryl Crow : The Globe Sessions
Sonny Rollins : Tenor Madness
Nickolas Harnoncourt : Mozart Requiem
Marvin Gaye : The Marvin Gaye Collection
all those from yourmusic.com all $4.99-$5.99 except Goodbye Yellow Brick Road which was considered a 2-disc set (though it has a DVD as well). I think all those titles are still available, but they did pull Honky Chateau from my queue and I'm not sure I'll be getting the John Coltrane album that's been at the top of my queue for a couple of months (though it took several months to get Highway 61 and that eventually did ship).

Lest you think I NEVER get albums from retailers, I did buy:
Billy Joel : The Stranger (OOP)
Billy Joel : 52nd Street (OOP)
John Hiatt : Mater Of Disaster
Pink Floyd : Dark Side Of The Moon 30th

-- all at Best Buy in their little section. My advice : when CC has one of their "All CDs $9.99" sale, you go to BB and PM for a few SACDs. They've never given me a problem doing that.

Tommy Ceez
03-27-06, 10:17 AM
OK, just picked up a Pioneer Dv578A from eBay for about 89 bucks (its region free to boot), so it makes a nice adddition to my Panny XP-30 in the living room.

Any other things I need to know?

darkside
03-27-06, 10:44 AM
Any other things I need to know?
Just remember that SACD and DVD Audio only output in analog (DVD Audio does output over HDMI) so get all that hooked up before playing. I forgot about that and ending up listening to nothing while I hooked up the 6 connections to my 5.1 mult in on my receiver.

Decker
03-27-06, 10:52 AM
Just remember that SACD and DVD Audio only output in analog (DVD Audio does output over HDMI) so get all that hooked up before playing. I forgot about that and ending up listening to nothing while I hooked up the 6 connections to my 5.1 mult in on my receiver.
I had Tweeter (a professional home theater and installation company) hook up my system and they forgot that. I had to have them come back to my house to finish the job.

Tommy Ceez
03-27-06, 11:41 AM
Just remember that SACD and DVD Audio only output in analog (DVD Audio does output over HDMI) so get all that hooked up before playing. I forgot about that and ending up listening to nothing while I hooked up the 6 connections to my 5.1 mult in on my receiver.
Yeah, the 6 channel input...btw, it uses reguler audio cable, correct? I have a TON of Red/White's laying around, just use them?

darkside
03-27-06, 02:39 PM
Yeah, the 6 channel input...btw, it uses reguler audio cable, correct? I have a TON of Red/White's laying around, just use them?
Yeah, it will work with regular RCA cables. My brother in law gets Monster Cables at half price so I ordered the $150 ones for $75, but to be honest my system isn't nearly high end enough to need it and its overkill.

Tommy Ceez
03-28-06, 08:22 PM
Im such an idiot!

I just realized that I can pop into JandR Music world during lunch, so pretty much ANY DVD-A or SACD is available to me through a B&M, so what disk do you recommend to be my first in order to get the most out of the WOW moment (Im a rock guy, but will listen to anything)

fliggil
03-28-06, 09:14 PM
I love my Elton John 'Goodbye Yellow Brick Road' DVD-A, gets a good workout from all 5.1 channels. I'd also recommend checking out the 2 Flaming Lips DVD-A titles. If you're into classical music, I recommend checking out some of the Living Stereo SACD's, priced at $10-12, a nice selection of pieces from Mahler, Debussy, Ravel, bunch of others. And they sound great.

Decker
03-29-06, 02:20 AM
Im such an idiot!

I just realized that I can pop into JandR Music world during lunch, so pretty much ANY DVD-A or SACD is available to me through a B&M, so what disk do you recommend to be my first in order to get the most out of the WOW moment (Im a rock guy, but will listen to anything)
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00008CLOA.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

Johnny Zhivago
03-29-06, 02:34 PM
Im such an idiot!

I just realized that I can pop into JandR Music world during lunch, so pretty much ANY DVD-A or SACD is available to me through a B&M, so what disk do you recommend to be my first in order to get the most out of the WOW moment (Im a rock guy, but will listen to anything)

Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots by The Flaming Lips is the best surround mix that I've heard. It's all over the place, very creative and full sounding.

I have Dark Side on SACD and it's pretty good but I wasn't blown away by it.

deadlax
03-29-06, 02:44 PM
I think both the Beach Boys Pet Sounds, and the Polyphonic Spree disc are quite nice.

Giles
03-29-06, 02:48 PM
...and the Polyphonic Spree disc are quite nice.

The Spree's album works great in 5.1 since all the use of the speakers takes perfect advantage of all the instruments and vocals. The difference between the discrete surround sound track to the 2-channel stereo mix is like night and day.

(... and reach for the sun! :cool: )

... :D

whaaat
03-30-06, 10:28 AM
First SACD: Dark Side of the Moon
First DVD-A: Yoshimi

Enjoy!

Tommy Ceez
04-06-06, 12:29 AM
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00008CLOA.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

Excelent

I JUST got into the Flaming Lips and I dont want to buy TSB and Yoshimi twice in a month.

I also picked up
Fleetwood Mack - Rumors
Beach Boys - Pet Sounds
Metallica - Black
Steely Dan - Gaucho
The Doors - LA Woman
from a milkcrate in the back room of one of teh Best Buys around here...they were about to ship back to teh warehouse, and I got them for $14 each.

But BB giving up on highrez isnt a problem, because like I said, I can get to J&R and the Virgin MEGAstore during lunch.

oh, and Elton John - GBYBR is in the mail from yourmusic.com


BTW...Im looking to trade some DVD-V's for some SACD's or DVD-A's...would the DVD exchange forum be the best spot, or would I get the best results here?

DamingR
04-17-06, 01:37 PM
I just tried to buy a SACD/DAD-A universal player at Best Buy and it turns out that they no longer carry ANY SACD players!

Now I'm looking for a universal, preferably something region-free with decent PAL to NTSC conversion. Any suggestions on where to buy? There are some Pioneers on Ebay, but none are region free that I'm seeing, unless there's an easy way to unlock them.

Any help? Why have BB and CC both stopped carrying SACD players? Man, this format really must be dead!

cungar
04-17-06, 02:10 PM
I just tried to buy a SACD/DAD-A universal player at Best Buy and it turns out that they no longer carry ANY SACD players!

Now I'm looking for a universal, preferably something region-free with decent PAL to NTSC conversion. Any suggestions on where to buy? There are some Pioneers on Ebay, but none are region free that I'm seeing, unless there's an easy way to unlock them.

Any help? Why have BB and CC both stopped carrying SACD players? Man, this format really must be dead!

Because they cater to the pop culture market and unfortunately the formats never caught on with John Q. Public. I think they did a bad job of marketing the players. A lot of people assumed they had to spend a lot of money to upgrade. It only cost me $169 and I love my player. I just hope it never breaks because I may be stuck with 20 useless discs.

whaaat
04-17-06, 02:10 PM
Beach Boys - Pet Sounds
In my experience, the rear channel on this one is LOUD! You'll probably want to turn down the rears a few db before listening, or youl'll barely be able to hear the front channels.

darkside
04-27-06, 10:06 PM
Any help? Why have BB and CC both stopped carrying SACD players? Man, this format really must be dead!

Neither format really caught on and Dualdisc seems to be going the way of the Dodo as well. However, SACD is still alive in the jazz and classical realm with a few new discs coming out every month or so. I think it will live in that niche for a long time. DVD-A and Dualdisc though?

Just a heads up that www.yourmusic.com is starting to discontinue some of their SACD stock. It seems everytime I put a jazz SACD in my queue I'm informed it won't be available if not purchased in the next month or two and there are a few discs missing that were there a month ago. This site is a great source for $5.99 SACDs so I would definitely check it out now if you want jazz SACDs. I ordered Sonny Rollins: Tenor Madness just in time, but I may have waited too long on John Coltrane: Lush Life and they may not be able to fill the order. It seems the classical discs are okay for the most part and Dylan, Clapton and Elton John also don't give any warnings.

Tommy Ceez
04-28-06, 02:09 AM
Best Buy and Circuit City not having SACD player is NOT an indication of wether the format is dead or not...look at thier OVERALL DVD player selection...its generic less expensive stuff, and NOTHING by any higher end brand...Circuit City has more DVD RECORDERS than players.

According to these stores...DVD players are like toasters...selection not necessary

BSTNFAN
04-28-06, 11:32 AM
I have been slowly building up my SACD/DVD-A collection, but now I'm wondering whether the new audio specs for HD-DVD/BluRay will be the way to go in the future. I know the old DTD/DD 5.1 mixes were lower quality, but what about the new specs? Everything else being equal, how would a DTS or DD HD disc compare to DVD-A/SACD?

darkside
05-01-06, 07:42 AM
I have been slowly building up my SACD/DVD-A collection, but now I'm wondering whether the new audio specs for HD-DVD/BluRay will be the way to go in the future. I know the old DTD/DD 5.1 mixes were lower quality, but what about the new specs? Everything else being equal, how would a DTS or DD HD disc compare to DVD-A/SACD?


Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD are rumored to be 3 times the sound quality of SACD (I have no idea how this relates to what you actually hear) so they would technically be the ultimate sounding discs if they were used for music.

With consumers seeming to have no interest in high quality audio though I am not sure record labels will want to try again with a new audio disc format.

fliggil
05-01-06, 11:00 AM
Has there been word of HD or BR players will support DVD-A or SACD?

Decker
05-01-06, 11:19 AM
Has there been word of HD or BR players will support DVD-A or SACD?
Pure speculation, but I'd certainly expect Sony BR players to support SACD as some of their best DVD players do.

cungar
05-01-06, 01:04 PM
Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD are rumored to be 3 times the sound quality of SACD (I have no idea how this relates to what you actually hear) so they would technically be the ultimate sounding discs if they were used for music.

With consumers seeming to have no interest in high quality audio though I am not sure record labels will want to try again with a new audio disc format.


Especially since you need a more and more expensive audio system to tell the difference. Eventualy you're just shoving more and more bits of music into a system (and ears) that can't detect the difference.

darkside
05-01-06, 10:06 PM
Pure speculation, but I'd certainly expect Sony BR players to support SACD as some of their best DVD players do.

I'm rather pissed that Sony's $1000 Blu-ray player supports LPCM for Blu-ray movies, but they didn't bother to add SACD support to it. There is just no way I will ever be able to retire my Denon. Both HD DVD and Blu-ray have left out things I can't replace so I'm destined to have my regular DVD player for a long time.

Jack Straw
05-02-06, 04:16 PM
I'm getting really sick of the new formats and format wars Blue Ray vs. HD-DVD, SACD vs. DVD-A. Making the audio/video consumer all of sudden feel like the hardware/software they were sold is now all of a sudden obsolete crap! Where does the insanity stop?

Decker
06-16-06, 11:09 AM
... I ordered Sonny Rollins: Tenor Madness just in time, but I may have waited too long on John Coltrane: Lush Life and they may not be able to fill the order.....
Just got mine in the mail yesterday after being at the top of the queue for months. Don't give up or take it off the top of your queue. Good luck!

Decker
07-20-06, 01:54 AM
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00008CLOA.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg
Just FYI : The rarest of things is now available : A SACD deal. This marvelous SACD release is available for $9.99 at Costco as a tie-in to the Pulse DVD. Anyone with a SACD player and a Costco membership owes it to themselves to pick this one up now.

darkside
07-20-06, 07:22 AM
Just got mine in the mail yesterday after being at the top of the queue for months. Don't give up or take it off the top of your queue. Good luck!
Forgot about this thread. I finally did get all of those SACDs from yourmusic. Took time but it was definitely worth it for some great jazz SACDs.

fliggil
07-20-06, 09:34 AM
Just FYI : The rarest of things is now available : A SACD deal. This marvelous SACD release is available for $9.99 at Costco as a tie-in to the Pulse DVD. Anyone with a SACD player and a Costco membership owes it to themselves to pick this one up now.

Nice find...surprising to be at a Costco, but I will have to check this out next time I'm there, this has been one of my to-buy titles on my SACD list.

atlantamoi
03-25-07, 08:29 AM
I finally decided to try out SACD/DVD-A now that the format seems to be dying! Yeah for my bad timing! (you can even see that this is an 8 month thread bump). I really wish I had taken advantage of BMG/Your Music for SACDs before they started disappearing. Really, the only thing that looks interesting is Bob Dylan and Eric Clapton, but that doesn't seem to grab my attention for "fun" 5.1 mixes.

I guess what I am wanting to know is if anyone has listened to a few titles I'm thinking of buying.

- Crowded House "Crowded House" Seen some decent reviews
- Simple Minds "New Gold Dream" Love this recording, but the multi-mix is expensive
- Depeche Mode "Violator" SACD import, not the DTS 5.1

I'm definitely going to pick up Roxy Music "Avalon" and Flaming Lips "Yoshimi..."

Any "cheapies" I should look out for? I LOVE the idea of 5.1 being all whigged out and crazy. Don't really want to purchase music that just simply sounds better. I need a good reason to sit on my couch to listen to a full recording these days.

C_Fletch
03-25-07, 10:12 AM
"With consumers seeming to have no interest in high quality audio though I am not sure record labels will want to try again with a new audio disc format."

"Especially since you need a more and more expensive audio system to tell the difference. Eventualy you're just shoving more and more bits of music into a system (and ears) that can't detect the difference."

Both statements are VERY true and I think show that Americans do NOT want these higher end systems as they see no benefit. I know NO ONE who has a system even close to mine. And mine is low end stuff that sounds great. With audio you have the problem of different players for different formats. I think that, and the fact that these titles were more expensive for the same music that people just did not see the advantages. Now, I am specifically talking about the mainstream and not high end audiophiles.

I think the EXACT same thing is going to happen to HD DVD and Blu-Ray. Especially considering their prices and the 2 competing formats that now have to split their potential buying market in half. I just don't see those formats gaining any significant support from the mainstream.

atlantamoi
03-25-07, 10:22 AM
C_Fletch I think the EXACT same thing is going to happen to HD DVD and Blu-Ray. While I have no clue if one of these formats is going to win, I totally disagree that HD movies will fail. People aren't buying expensive HDTVs to continue watching all of their programming in SD (although I saw a recent survey that said the majority of people buying HDTVs don't use it all for HD... strange).

I consider myself between the mainstream and audiophile. I usually wait for prices to drop before diving in. That's what I did with my HDTV. After buying it I realized it would be good to upgrade all my other equipment and that's why I'm all of a sudden into the idea of multi-channel audio better than just DTS. I have to think there are other people out there like me.

redhenry
03-26-07, 01:02 AM
I finally decided to try out SACD/DVD-A now that the format seems to be dying! Yeah for my bad timing! (you can even see that this is an 8 month thread bump). I really wish I had taken advantage of BMG/Your Music for SACDs before they started disappearing. Really, the only thing that looks interesting is Bob Dylan and Eric Clapton, but that doesn't seem to grab my attention for "fun" 5.1 mixes.

I guess what I am wanting to know is if anyone has listened to a few titles I'm thinking of buying.

- Crowded House "Crowded House" Seen some decent reviews
- Simple Minds "New Gold Dream" Love this recording, but the multi-mix is expensive
- Depeche Mode "Violator" SACD import, not the DTS 5.1

I'm definitely going to pick up Roxy Music "Avalon" and Flaming Lips "Yoshimi..."

Any "cheapies" I should look out for? I LOVE the idea of 5.1 being all whigged out and crazy. Don't really want to purchase music that just simply sounds better. I need a good reason to sit on my couch to listen to a full recording these days.

I have the Crowded House DVD-A. Excellent stuff. Right from the first listen I was hearing harmonies, guitars and keyboards that I had never heard before.

Avalon by Roxy is fantastic too!

DaveWadding
03-26-07, 02:30 AM
I finally decided to try out SACD/DVD-A now that the format seems to be dying! Yeah for my bad timing! (you can even see that this is an 8 month thread bump). I really wish I had taken advantage of BMG/Your Music for SACDs before they started disappearing. Really, the only thing that looks interesting is Bob Dylan and Eric Clapton, but that doesn't seem to grab my attention for "fun" 5.1 mixes.

I guess what I am wanting to know is if anyone has listened to a few titles I'm thinking of buying.

- Crowded House "Crowded House" Seen some decent reviews
- Simple Minds "New Gold Dream" Love this recording, but the multi-mix is expensive
- Depeche Mode "Violator" SACD import, not the DTS 5.1

I'm definitely going to pick up Roxy Music "Avalon" and Flaming Lips "Yoshimi..."

Any "cheapies" I should look out for? I LOVE the idea of 5.1 being all whigged out and crazy. Don't really want to purchase music that just simply sounds better. I need a good reason to sit on my couch to listen to a full recording these days.


Buy. Layla. Now.

berserker37
03-26-07, 10:03 AM
I'm definitely going to pick up Roxy Music "Avalon" and Flaming Lips "Yoshimi..."



All of the Flaming Lips DVD-Audio releases are great ("Yoshimi...", "The Soft Bulletin", and "At War With The Mystics").

Beck's "Sea Change" is another great one (either SACD or DVD-Audio, I'd go with the DVD-Audio for the extra stuff).

Pink Floyd "Dark Side of the Moon" is a must.

Bjork's "Vespertine" is great, if you like Bjork.

The Police singles collection ("Every Breath You Take"?) also sounds very good.

Randy Miller III
03-26-07, 10:44 AM
Beck's "Sea Change" is another great one (either SACD or DVD-Audio, I'd go with the DVD-Audio for the extra stuff).
Good call on Beck. The limited edition of "Guero" (white hardback book) is another excellent DVD-Audio upgrade, and the included "videos" and extra stuff is pretty cool.

printerati
03-26-07, 02:02 PM
I highly recommend the Keane "Hopes And Fears" SACD. I am extremely familiar with the original CD release, and some of the multichannel mixes on the SACD are incredible, so much so that I can't look at the original release the same way now.

I also recommend the Beck "Sea Change" release, but I can only comment on the SACD version since I don't have DVD-A capability.

berserker37
03-26-07, 02:15 PM
Good call on Beck. The limited edition of "Guero" (white hardback book) is another excellent DVD-Audio upgrade, and the included "videos" and extra stuff is pretty cool.

D'oh! I picked up the regular version of "Guero" without even thinking that there might be a DVD-Audio version. I haven't gotten into it that much (other than a few songs), but then again I didn't get that into "Sea Change" until I got the surround version. (I didn't mind double dipping since I had just gotten the SACD/DVD-Audio player and was starving for content.) I'm sure I'll pick it up eventually.

I was amazed at how much the surround format enhanced "Sea Change", which initially struck me as kind of a stripped-down sound (at least compared to the stuff on "Odelay"). Songs like "The Golden Age" and "Lost Cause" just open up tremendously, I think it's one of the few examples of surround sound taking music to a new level. I love the spacey sounds all over the place, and yet the songs themselves stay very grounded and earthy, if that makes any sense.

cungar
03-26-07, 03:31 PM
Definitely looking forward to the Genesis DVD-Audios/SA-CDs

Especially The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway and Trick of the Tail.



14 Genesis Albums Coming to 5.1 Super Audio CD Surround Sound in 2007
Earlier today EMI and their Virgin Records label in Europe announced that they plan to bring 14 classic albums by Genesis to 5.1 Super Audio CD discs next year. The Genesis Remastered Series SACDs will be released as double disc packages with each album consisting of a Hybrid Layer Surround Sound Super Audio CD (SACD Surround Sound, SACD Stereo and CD Stereo mixes) and a separate DVD Video disc.

Fans of Genesis and Super Audio CD fans have been patiently waiting for this announcement for several years - ever since work on remixing and remastering these albums into 5.1 Surround Sound began in 2003. Since that time, they have been getting regular updates on the massive remixing project that has been helmed by Genesis co-producer and engineer Nick Davis on the band's official web site.

Coordination With the Group's 2007 Reunion Tour
According to today's announcement, the release of the new SACD editions of the Genesis catalog will begin in March 2007 to coincide with the group's first tour in 15 years. Known as the "Turn It On Again Tour", Genesis members Phil Collins, Tony Banks and Mike Rutherford will start their tour in Helsinki, Finland at Olympic Stadium on June 11, 2007. They will be performing with drummer Chester Thompson and guitarist Daryl Steurmer. The European Genesis tour will cover 12 different countries in Europe (Finland, Denmark, Switzerland, Austria, Hungary, Poland, Germany, France, Holland, United Kingdom, Monte Carlo and Italy). This will be followed by a series of tour dates in the U.S.

The Genesis SACD Release Schedule
When it comes to releasing the Genesis Remastered SACDs, we will see the first 5 discs in March 2007 with releases continuing throughout the year. According to the record label, each SACD will feature "newly re-mastered 5.1 surround sound and stereo mixes." Here's the current list of release dates and albums provided by EMI and Virgin Records Europe with the original date of issue of each album shown in parenthesis:

March 2007 SACD Releases

A Trick Of The Tail (1976)

Wind & Wuthering (1977)

…And Then There Were Three…(1978)

Duke (1980)

Abacab (1981)

June/July 2007 SACD Releases

Genesis (1983)

Invisible Touch (1986)

We Can't Dance (1991)

Calling All Stations (1997)

Late 2007/Early 2008 SACD Releases

Trespass (1970)

Nursery Cryme (1971)

Foxtrot (1972)

Selling England By The Pound (1973)

The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway (1974)

atlantamoi
03-26-07, 04:52 PM
I was amazed at how much the surround format enhanced "Sea Change", which initially struck me as kind of a stripped-down sound I have read nothing but great reviews about the SACD. "Sea Change" is my favorite Beck recording, but it's one of those that didn't seem to need a surround lift. I'll definitely have to see why this is highly rated.

fliggil
03-26-07, 09:03 PM
Definitely looking forward to the Genesis DVD-Audios/SA-CDs

Especially The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway and Trick of the Tail.



14 Genesis Albums Coming to 5.1 Super Audio CD Surround Sound in 2007
Earlier today EMI and their Virgin Records label in Europe announced that they plan to bring 14 classic albums by Genesis to 5.1 Super Audio CD discs next year. The Genesis Remastered Series SACDs will be released as double disc packages with each album consisting of a Hybrid Layer Surround Sound Super Audio CD (SACD Surround Sound, SACD Stereo and CD Stereo mixes) and a separate DVD Video disc.

Fans of Genesis and Super Audio CD fans have been patiently waiting for this announcement for several years - ever since work on remixing and remastering these albums into 5.1 Surround Sound began in 2003. Since that time, they have been getting regular updates on the massive remixing project that has been helmed by Genesis co-producer and engineer Nick Davis on the band's official web site.



Not sure if you've checked, but I've been following this production for a while, and these releases are going to be very expensive, seems to be upward of $35-40 a disc. I've been supporting SACD and DVD-Audio for years, but even as a Genesis fan I cannot justify spending that much money for an album.

keys88
03-28-07, 03:44 PM
Definitely looking forward to the Genesis DVD-Audios/SA-CDs

14 Genesis Albums Coming to 5.1 Super Audio CD Surround Sound in 2007
Earlier today EMI and their Virgin Records label in Europe announced that they plan to bring 14 classic albums by Genesis to 5.1 Super Audio CD discs next year. The Genesis Remastered Series SACDs will be released as double disc packages with each album consisting of a Hybrid Layer Surround Sound Super Audio CD (SACD Surround Sound, SACD Stereo and CD Stereo mixes) and a separate DVD Video disc.

Fans of Genesis and Super Audio CD fans have been patiently waiting for this announcement for several years - ever since work on remixing and remastering these albums into 5.1 Surround Sound began in 2003. Since that time, they have been getting regular updates on the massive remixing project that has been helmed by Genesis co-producer and engineer Nick Davis on the band's official web site.


The Genesis SACD Release Schedule
When it comes to releasing the Genesis Remastered SACDs, we will see the first 5 discs in March 2007 with releases continuing throughout the year. According to the record label, each SACD will feature "newly re-mastered 5.1 surround sound and stereo mixes." Here's the current list of release dates and albums provided by EMI and Virgin Records Europe with the original date of issue of each album shown in parenthesis:

March 2007 SACD Releases

A Trick Of The Tail (1976)

Wind & Wuthering (1977)

…And Then There Were Three…(1978)

Duke (1980)

Abacab (1981)



The above titles are going to be released in Europe on 4/02/07. They are going to be released in different formats for different countries.
For Europe and Asia Each title will include:

Europe - 1 SACD/ 1 DVD PAL Region 0
Asia - 1 SACD/ 1 DVD NTSC Region 0

Warner is the company that is handling the US release approx. 04/24/07. They do not approve of SACD so the US titles are going to be:

US - 1 CD/ 1 DVD NTSC

Exerpt from an interview with Nick Davis:

About the SACDs, why did you chose the format SACD for the Rereleases and why will they not be releases on SACD in North America?

Nick Davis: Well, we've chosen the format SACD because - well I really like the sound of it! We had a demo of that machine three or four years ago and I thought it was fantastic. At the time we thought it would be the best way to deal with the Genesis music and do the re-release justice, really - by mixing it in this format. Ok, we see now that it's quite a niche market.
Not releasing the stuff on this format in America has nothing to do with the band, it's just that Warner won't support SACD and so it's not our choice really. We could force them to do DVD-A, but then we would be stuck with two DVD releases and no CD. So that would be quite complicated. So in America, they get a regular CD and a DVD-Video and in Europe you get a SACD and DVD-V

...

Speaking about the new mixes, what did you do, did you just remix the stuff or it it something completely new?

Nick Davis: We did a complete new mix of everything. We've taken the old analogue multitrack tapes and transfered them onto our protools-system which is running at 192kHz and 24 bit PCM and then mix through on a SSL analogue desk onto this DSD [Direct Stream Digital] system. So you get completely new 5.1 and Stereo Mixes on both, the SACD and CD Layer.

If you buy the box set it also includes 2 bonus disc and a hardback book.

Bonus CD / SACD (CD Stereo / SACD stereo / SACD 5.1 Surround Sound)
1. Paperlate (from E.P. 3X3 – 1982)
2. Evidence of Autumn (B-side to Misunderstanding – 1980)
3. Pigeons (from E.P. Spot The Pigeon – 1977)
4. You might Recall (from E.P. 3X3 – 1982)
5. Naminanu (B-side to Keep It Dark – 1981)
6. Inside and Out (from E.P. Spot The Pigeon – 1977)
7. Vancouver (Part of Double B-side to Many Too Many – 1978)
8. Me and Virgil (from E.P. 3X3 – 1982)
9. It's Yourself (B-side to Your Own Special Way - 1977)
10. Match of the Day (from E.P. Spot The Pigeon – 1977)
11. Open Door (B-side to Duchess – 1980)
12. The Day the Light Went Out (Part of Double B-side to Many Too Many – 1978)
13. Submarine (B-side to Man On The Corner – 1982)

Richard Malloy
03-28-07, 04:47 PM
I have read nothing but great reviews about the SACD. "Sea Change" is my favorite Beck recording, but it's one of those that didn't seem to need a surround lift. I'll definitely have to see why this is highly rated.
"Sea Change" remains my favorite pop/rock SACD. And it seems that not many people know that this album was recorded all analog onto master tape (not a PCM digital recording), so the DSD master sounds positively exquisite. That's not to say that the CD layer doesn't sound phenomenal, but this is one of those unfortunately rare instances where a pop recording benefits drastically from a DSD master. For example, something like "Guero", a PCM digital master put together in Pro Tools, wouldn't/doesn't benefit so much from a "hi-res" upgrade. But "Sea Change"... WOW!

And the surround mix is one of the best I've ever heard. I think "sparse" recordings like this benefit tremendously from surround mixes, at least with regard to new recordings that are intended from the get-go to have a surround mix as well as two-channel. The "Sea Change" mix is simultaneously tasteful and mind-bending, never cluttered nor undermining the direct simplicity of the recording, but nonetheless entirely using the full 360 degree soundfield. Given that this is your favorite Beck album, you must upgrade! I can't imagine that you'll be anything short of completely blown away.