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Where does Roger Clemens rank among the all-time best pitchers? [Archive] - DVD Talk Forum
 
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View Full Version : Where does Roger Clemens rank among the all-time best pitchers?


immortal_zeus
10-23-03, 06:13 AM
Even after reading the FAQ on how to create tables, I still can't figure it out after all these years. :mad:

Anyway, here's a link to Roger Clemens' career stats (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?statsId=3340).

If somebody who knows how to create a table can post the table in here, that'd be great.

Roger has to be top 10, at least. Possibly top 5. What do you guys think?

310 Wins - 17th all-time
0.6596 Win/Loss% - 18th all-time
4099 Strikeouts - 3rd all-time

http://www.ameritech.net/users/dvdtalk/rome.gif

Jobronie
10-23-03, 06:17 AM
Can't forget, tho, that for all his skill, he did NOT want to be on the mound in a pivotal game for the first ten years of his career. I think that really has to be included in the equation. He found every way to avoid a big game, including purposely getting his ass run out of a play-off game.....

namrfumot
10-23-03, 06:23 AM
He definetly ranks in the top 5 fattest pitchers of all time.

twikoff
10-23-03, 06:30 AM
Originally posted by immortal_zeus

If somebody who knows how to create a table can post the table in here, that'd be great.

http://www.ameritech.net/users/dvdtalk/rome.gif

here is my 30 second attempt

<table x:str border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width=612 style='border-collapse: collapse;table-layout:fixed;width:460pt'> <col width=54 style='mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:1974;width:41pt'> <col width=33 style='mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:1206;width:25pt'> <col width=32 style='mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:1170;width:24pt'> <col width=36 style='mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:1316;width:27pt'> <col width=35 style='mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:1280;width:26pt'> <col width=39 style='mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:1426;width:29pt'> <col width=49 style='mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:1792;width:37pt'> <col width=39 style='mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:1426;width:29pt'> <col width=40 style='mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:1462;width:30pt'> <col width=38 style='mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:1389;width:29pt'> <col width=35 style='mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:1280;width:26pt'> <col width=38 span=2 style='mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:1389; width:29pt'> <col width=35 style='mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:1280;width:26pt'> <col width=32 style='mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:1170;width:24pt'> <col width=39 style='mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:1426;width:29pt'> <col width=34 style='mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:1243;width:26pt'> <col width=39 style='mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:1426;width:29pt'> <col width=43 style='mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:1572;width:32pt'> <tr height=29 style='height:21.75pt'> <td height=29 class=xl24 width=54 style='height:21.75pt;width:41pt'>Season</td> <td class=xl25 width=33 style='width:25pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;TM</td> <td class=xl25 width=32 style='width:24pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;G</td> <td class=xl25 width=36 style='width:27pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;GS</td> <td class=xl25 width=35 style='width:26pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;CG</td> <td class=xl25 width=39 style='width:29pt'>&nbsp;SHO</td> <td class=xl25 width=49 style='width:37pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;IP</td> <td class=xl25 width=39 style='width:29pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;H</td> <td class=xl25 width=40 style='width:30pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;R</td> <td class=xl25 width=38 style='width:29pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;ER</td> <td class=xl25 width=35 style='width:26pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;HR</td> <td class=xl25 width=38 style='width:29pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;BB</td> <td class=xl25 width=38 style='width:29pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;SO</td> <td class=xl25 width=35 style='width:26pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;W</td> <td class=xl25 width=32 style='width:24pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;L</td> <td class=xl25 width=39 style='width:29pt'>&nbsp;&nbsp;ERA</td> </tr> <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'> <td height=17 class=xl26 width=54 style='height:12.75pt;width:41pt' x:num>1984</td> <td class=xl27 width=33 style='width:25pt'>Bos</td> <td class=xl27 width=32 style='width:24pt' x:num>21</td> <td class=xl27 width=36 style='width:27pt' x:num>20</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>5</td> <td class=xl27 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>1</td> <td class=xl27 width=49 style='width:37pt' x:num>133.1</td> <td class=xl27 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>146</td> <td class=xl27 width=40 style='width:30pt' x:num>67</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>64</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>13</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>29</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>126</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>9</td> <td class=xl27 width=32 style='width:24pt' x:num>4</td> <td class=xl28 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>4.32</td> </tr> <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'> <td height=17 class=xl26 width=54 style='height:12.75pt;width:41pt' x:num>1985</td> <td class=xl27 width=33 style='width:25pt'>Bos</td> <td class=xl27 width=32 style='width:24pt' x:num>15</td> <td class=xl27 width=36 style='width:27pt' x:num>15</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>3</td> <td class=xl27 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>1</td> <td class=xl27 width=49 style='width:37pt' x:num>98.1</td> <td class=xl27 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>83</td> <td class=xl27 width=40 style='width:30pt' x:num>38</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>36</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>5</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>37</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>74</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>7</td> <td class=xl27 width=32 style='width:24pt' x:num>5</td> <td class=xl28 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>3.30</td> </tr> <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'> <td height=17 class=xl26 width=54 style='height:12.75pt;width:41pt' x:num>1986</td> <td class=xl27 width=33 style='width:25pt'>Bos</td> <td class=xl27 width=32 style='width:24pt' x:num>33</td> <td class=xl27 width=36 style='width:27pt' x:num>33</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>10</td> <td class=xl27 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>1</td> <td class=xl27 width=49 style='width:37pt' x:num>254</td> <td class=xl27 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>179</td> <td class=xl27 width=40 style='width:30pt' x:num>77</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>70</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>21</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>67</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>238</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>24</td> <td class=xl27 width=32 style='width:24pt' x:num>4</td> <td class=xl28 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>2.48</td> </tr> <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'> <td height=17 class=xl26 width=54 style='height:12.75pt;width:41pt' x:num>1987</td> <td class=xl27 width=33 style='width:25pt'>Bos</td> <td class=xl27 width=32 style='width:24pt' x:num>36</td> <td class=xl27 width=36 style='width:27pt' x:num>36</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>18</td> <td class=xl27 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>7</td> <td class=xl27 width=49 style='width:37pt' x:num>281.2</td> <td class=xl27 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>248</td> <td class=xl27 width=40 style='width:30pt' x:num>100</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>93</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>19</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>83</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>256</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>20</td> <td class=xl27 width=32 style='width:24pt' x:num>9</td> <td class=xl28 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>2.97</td> </tr> <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'> <td height=17 class=xl26 width=54 style='height:12.75pt;width:41pt' x:num>1988</td> <td class=xl27 width=33 style='width:25pt'>Bos</td> <td class=xl27 width=32 style='width:24pt' x:num>35</td> <td class=xl27 width=36 style='width:27pt' x:num>35</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>14</td> <td class=xl27 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>8</td> <td class=xl27 width=49 style='width:37pt' x:num>264</td> <td class=xl27 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>217</td> <td class=xl27 width=40 style='width:30pt' x:num>93</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>86</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>17</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>62</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>291</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>18</td> <td class=xl27 width=32 style='width:24pt' x:num>12</td> <td class=xl28 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>2.93</td> </tr> <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'> <td height=17 class=xl26 width=54 style='height:12.75pt;width:41pt' x:num>1989</td> <td class=xl27 width=33 style='width:25pt'>Bos</td> <td class=xl27 width=32 style='width:24pt' x:num>35</td> <td class=xl27 width=36 style='width:27pt' x:num>35</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>8</td> <td class=xl27 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>3</td> <td class=xl27 width=49 style='width:37pt' x:num>253.1</td> <td class=xl27 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>215</td> <td class=xl27 width=40 style='width:30pt' x:num>101</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>88</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>20</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>93</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>230</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>17</td> <td class=xl27 width=32 style='width:24pt' x:num>11</td> <td class=xl28 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>3.13</td> </tr> <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'> <td height=17 class=xl26 width=54 style='height:12.75pt;width:41pt' x:num>1990</td> <td class=xl27 width=33 style='width:25pt'>Bos</td> <td class=xl27 width=32 style='width:24pt' x:num>31</td> <td class=xl27 width=36 style='width:27pt' x:num>31</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>7</td> <td class=xl27 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>4</td> <td class=xl27 width=49 style='width:37pt' x:num>228.1</td> <td class=xl27 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>193</td> <td class=xl27 width=40 style='width:30pt' x:num>59</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>49</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>7</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>54</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>209</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>21</td> <td class=xl27 width=32 style='width:24pt' x:num>6</td> <td class=xl28 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>1.93</td> </tr> <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'> <td height=17 class=xl26 width=54 style='height:12.75pt;width:41pt' x:num>1991</td> <td class=xl27 width=33 style='width:25pt'>Bos</td> <td class=xl27 width=32 style='width:24pt' x:num>35</td> <td class=xl27 width=36 style='width:27pt' x:num>35</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>13</td> <td class=xl27 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>4</td> <td class=xl27 width=49 style='width:37pt' x:num>271.1</td> <td class=xl27 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>219</td> <td class=xl27 width=40 style='width:30pt' x:num>93</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>79</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>15</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>65</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>241</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>18</td> <td class=xl27 width=32 style='width:24pt' x:num>10</td> <td class=xl28 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>2.62</td> </tr> <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'> <td height=17 class=xl26 width=54 style='height:12.75pt;width:41pt' x:num>1992</td> <td class=xl27 width=33 style='width:25pt'>Bos</td> <td class=xl27 width=32 style='width:24pt' x:num>32</td> <td class=xl27 width=36 style='width:27pt' x:num>32</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>11</td> <td class=xl27 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>5</td> <td class=xl27 width=49 style='width:37pt' x:num>246.2</td> <td class=xl27 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>203</td> <td class=xl27 width=40 style='width:30pt' x:num>80</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>66</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>11</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>62</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>208</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>18</td> <td class=xl27 width=32 style='width:24pt' x:num>11</td> <td class=xl28 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>2.41</td> </tr> <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'> <td height=17 class=xl26 width=54 style='height:12.75pt;width:41pt' x:num>1993</td> <td class=xl27 width=33 style='width:25pt'>Bos</td> <td class=xl27 width=32 style='width:24pt' x:num>29</td> <td class=xl27 width=36 style='width:27pt' x:num>29</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>2</td> <td class=xl27 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>1</td> <td class=xl27 width=49 style='width:37pt' x:num>191.2</td> <td class=xl27 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>175</td> <td class=xl27 width=40 style='width:30pt' x:num>99</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>95</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>17</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>67</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>160</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>11</td> <td class=xl27 width=32 style='width:24pt' x:num>14</td> <td class=xl28 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>4.46</td> </tr> <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'> <td height=17 class=xl26 width=54 style='height:12.75pt;width:41pt' x:num>1994</td> <td class=xl27 width=33 style='width:25pt'>Bos</td> <td class=xl27 width=32 style='width:24pt' x:num>24</td> <td class=xl27 width=36 style='width:27pt' x:num>24</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>3</td> <td class=xl27 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>1</td> <td class=xl27 width=49 style='width:37pt' x:num>170.2</td> <td class=xl27 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>124</td> <td class=xl27 width=40 style='width:30pt' x:num>62</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>54</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>15</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>71</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>168</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>9</td> <td class=xl27 width=32 style='width:24pt' x:num>7</td> <td class=xl28 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>2.85</td> </tr> <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'> <td height=17 class=xl26 width=54 style='height:12.75pt;width:41pt' x:num>1995</td> <td class=xl27 width=33 style='width:25pt'>Bos</td> <td class=xl27 width=32 style='width:24pt' x:num>23</td> <td class=xl27 width=36 style='width:27pt' x:num>23</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>0</td> <td class=xl27 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>0</td> <td class=xl27 width=49 style='width:37pt' x:num>140</td> <td class=xl27 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>141</td> <td class=xl27 width=40 style='width:30pt' x:num>70</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>65</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>15</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>60</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>132</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>10</td> <td class=xl27 width=32 style='width:24pt' x:num>5</td> <td class=xl28 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>4.18</td> </tr> <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'> <td height=17 class=xl26 width=54 style='height:12.75pt;width:41pt' x:num>1996</td> <td class=xl27 width=33 style='width:25pt'>Bos</td> <td class=xl27 width=32 style='width:24pt' x:num>34</td> <td class=xl27 width=36 style='width:27pt' x:num>34</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>6</td> <td class=xl27 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>2</td> <td class=xl27 width=49 style='width:37pt' x:num>242.2</td> <td class=xl27 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>216</td> <td class=xl27 width=40 style='width:30pt' x:num>106</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>98</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>19</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>106</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>257</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>10</td> <td class=xl27 width=32 style='width:24pt' x:num>13</td> <td class=xl28 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>3.64</td> </tr> <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'> <td height=17 class=xl26 width=54 style='height:12.75pt;width:41pt' x:num>1997</td> <td class=xl27 width=33 style='width:25pt'>Tor</td> <td class=xl27 width=32 style='width:24pt' x:num>34</td> <td class=xl27 width=36 style='width:27pt' x:num>34</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>9</td> <td class=xl27 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>3</td> <td class=xl27 width=49 style='width:37pt' x:num>264</td> <td class=xl27 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>204</td> <td class=xl27 width=40 style='width:30pt' x:num>65</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>60</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>9</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>68</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>292</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>21</td> <td class=xl27 width=32 style='width:24pt' x:num>7</td> <td class=xl28 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>2.05</td> </tr> <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'> <td height=17 class=xl26 width=54 style='height:12.75pt;width:41pt' x:num>1998</td> <td class=xl27 width=33 style='width:25pt'>Tor</td> <td class=xl27 width=32 style='width:24pt' x:num>33</td> <td class=xl27 width=36 style='width:27pt' x:num>33</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>5</td> <td class=xl27 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>3</td> <td class=xl27 width=49 style='width:37pt' x:num>234.2</td> <td class=xl27 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>169</td> <td class=xl27 width=40 style='width:30pt' x:num>78</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>69</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>11</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>88</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>271</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>20</td> <td class=xl27 width=32 style='width:24pt' x:num>6</td> <td class=xl28 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>2.65</td> </tr> <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'> <td height=17 class=xl26 width=54 style='height:12.75pt;width:41pt' x:num>1999</td> <td class=xl27 width=33 style='width:25pt'>NYY</td> <td class=xl27 width=32 style='width:24pt' x:num>30</td> <td class=xl27 width=36 style='width:27pt' x:num>30</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>1</td> <td class=xl27 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>1</td> <td class=xl27 width=49 style='width:37pt' x:num>187.2</td> <td class=xl27 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>185</td> <td class=xl27 width=40 style='width:30pt' x:num>101</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>96</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>20</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>90</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>163</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>14</td> <td class=xl27 width=32 style='width:24pt' x:num>10</td> <td class=xl28 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>4.60</td> </tr> <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'> <td height=17 class=xl26 width=54 style='height:12.75pt;width:41pt' x:num>2000</td> <td class=xl27 width=33 style='width:25pt'>NYY</td> <td class=xl27 width=32 style='width:24pt' x:num>32</td> <td class=xl27 width=36 style='width:27pt' x:num>32</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>1</td> <td class=xl27 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>0</td> <td class=xl27 width=49 style='width:37pt' x:num>204.1</td> <td class=xl27 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>184</td> <td class=xl27 width=40 style='width:30pt' x:num>96</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>84</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>26</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>84</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>188</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>13</td> <td class=xl27 width=32 style='width:24pt' x:num>8</td> <td class=xl28 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>3.70</td> </tr> <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'> <td height=17 class=xl26 width=54 style='height:12.75pt;width:41pt' x:num>2001</td> <td class=xl27 width=33 style='width:25pt'>NYY</td> <td class=xl27 width=32 style='width:24pt' x:num>33</td> <td class=xl27 width=36 style='width:27pt' x:num>33</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>0</td> <td class=xl27 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>0</td> <td class=xl27 width=49 style='width:37pt' x:num>220.1</td> <td class=xl27 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>205</td> <td class=xl27 width=40 style='width:30pt' x:num>94</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>86</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>19</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>72</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>213</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>20</td> <td class=xl27 width=32 style='width:24pt' x:num>3</td> <td class=xl28 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>3.51</td> </tr> <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'> <td height=17 class=xl26 width=54 style='height:12.75pt;width:41pt' x:num>2002</td> <td class=xl27 width=33 style='width:25pt'>NYY</td> <td class=xl27 width=32 style='width:24pt' x:num>29</td> <td class=xl27 width=36 style='width:27pt' x:num>29</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>0</td> <td class=xl27 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>0</td> <td class=xl27 width=49 style='width:37pt' x:num>180</td> <td class=xl27 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>172</td> <td class=xl27 width=40 style='width:30pt' x:num>94</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>87</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>18</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>63</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>192</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>13</td> <td class=xl27 width=32 style='width:24pt' x:num>6</td> <td class=xl28 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>4.35</td> </tr> <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'> <td height=17 class=xl26 width=54 style='height:12.75pt;width:41pt' x:num>2003</td> <td class=xl27 width=33 style='width:25pt'>NYY</td> <td class=xl27 width=32 style='width:24pt' x:num>33</td> <td class=xl27 width=36 style='width:27pt' x:num>33</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>1</td> <td class=xl27 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>1</td> <td class=xl27 width=49 style='width:37pt' x:num>211.2</td> <td class=xl27 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>199</td> <td class=xl27 width=40 style='width:30pt' x:num>99</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>92</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>24</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>58</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>190</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>17</td> <td class=xl27 width=32 style='width:24pt' x:num>9</td> <td class=xl28 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>3.91</td> </tr> <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'> <td height=17 class=xl26 width=54 style='height:12.75pt;width:41pt'>Total</td> <td class=xl27 width=33 style='width:25pt'>--</td> <td class=xl27 width=32 style='width:24pt' x:num>607</td> <td class=xl27 width=36 style='width:27pt' x:num>606</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>117</td> <td class=xl27 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>46</td> <td class=xl27 width=49 style='width:37pt' x:num>4278.2</td> <td class=xl27 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>3677</td> <td class=xl27 width=40 style='width:30pt' x:num>1672</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>1517</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>321</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>1379</td> <td class=xl27 width=38 style='width:29pt' x:num>4099</td> <td class=xl27 width=35 style='width:26pt' x:num>310</td> <td class=xl27 width=32 style='width:24pt' x:num>160</td> <td class=xl28 width=39 style='width:29pt' x:num>3.19</td> </tr> <![if supportMisalignedColumns]> <tr height=0 style='display:none'> <td width=54 style='width:41pt'></td> <td width=33 style='width:25pt'></td> <td width=32 style='width:24pt'></td> <td width=36 style='width:27pt'></td> <td width=35 style='width:26pt'></td> <td width=39 style='width:29pt'></td> <td width=49 style='width:37pt'></td> <td width=39 style='width:29pt'></td> <td width=40 style='width:30pt'></td> <td width=38 style='width:29pt'></td> <td width=35 style='width:26pt'></td> <td width=38 style='width:29pt'></td> <td width=38 style='width:29pt'></td> <td width=35 style='width:26pt'></td> <td width=32 style='width:24pt'></td> <td width=39 style='width:29pt'></td> </tr> <![endif]></table>

Smith
10-23-03, 06:56 AM
Originally posted by namrufmot
He definetly ranks in the top 5 fattest pitchers of all time.

rotfl I hope your joking

immortal_zeus
10-23-03, 07:05 AM
Originally posted by twikoff
here is my 30 second attempt


Thanks twikky. I'm going to have to figure out how to do that one of these days.

http://www.ameritech.net/users/dvdtalk/rome.gif

Pharoh
10-23-03, 07:27 AM
He is top twelve or so of all time, but not top 5, and I don't think it is close. His few years of suckiness at the end of his time in Boston coupled with his ERA of 3.99 during his Yankee tenure leaves him behind the top tier guys.

Jobronie
10-23-03, 07:37 AM
Originally posted by Pharoh
He is top twelve or so of all time, but not top 5, and I don't think it is close. His few years of suckiness at the end of his time in Boston In defense of his ABILITY, it's pretty much a given that he tanked (on purpose) his last season or two in Boston just so he could get out.......

Y2K Falcon
10-23-03, 08:23 AM
He's definitely, among the all-time best pitchers, the most recent to pitch his final game! :up:

Red Dog
10-23-03, 08:38 AM
I'd say he is probably the best pitcher in the expansion era (1962-present). I won't go back further than that.

Flashback
10-23-03, 08:53 AM
Originally posted by Red Dog
I'd say he is probably the best pitcher in the expansion era (1962-present). I won't go back further than that.

Boy that's a tough call....you could put Seaver and Gibson up there as well..but Gibson did start before 62.

Also..although I think Clemens is better....there is Maddux and Carlton.


What I do hope is that he is true to his word and retires...he really does not have anything else to prove.

Red Dog
10-23-03, 08:54 AM
Originally posted by Flashback
Boy that's a tough call....you could put Seaver and Gibson up there as well..but Gibson did start before 62.

Also..although I think Clemens is better....there is Maddux and Carlton.



Gibson is up there but he pitched during the dead ball era. This is same reason why I rate Pedro ahead of Koufax.

Red Dog
10-23-03, 08:57 AM
Great Rob Neyer article on Clemens:

http://espn.go.com/mlb/columns/neyer_rob/1558124.html

Flashback
10-23-03, 09:07 AM
Originally posted by Red Dog
Great Rob Neyer article on Clemens:

http://espn.go.com/mlb/columns/neyer_rob/1558124.html

Just skimmed through it....some good points...at least I had some contenders in my post :)

Of course no respect for Carlton ,damn writers :lol: .... I always liked him a lot growing up.

B.A.
10-23-03, 09:32 AM
Here is a comparison of Carlton, Clemens, Gibson, Maddux and Seaver's stats:

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats_historical/mlb_historical_leaders.jsp?section2=null&statSet2=null&sortByStat=W&statType=2&timeFrame=3&timeSubFrame=0&baseballScope=mlb&prevPage2=1&readBoxes=true&HS=true&box9=XXXX112008XXXX&box16=XXXX121961XXXX&box17=XXXX112388XXXX&box23=XXXX118120XXXX&box42=XXXX114756XXXX&compare.x=16&compare.y=1

It looks like Maddux and Clemens are the best of the bunch, but I would take into account that they had closers behind them their entire careers. It makes you wonder how many more wins and fewer innings that the other three would have had if they had a closer and/or a consistently used bullpen behind them during their careers.

Flashback
10-23-03, 09:43 AM
Originally posted by B.A.hist
It looks like Maddux and Clemens are the best of the bunch, but I would take into account that they had closers behind them their entire careers. It makes you wonder how many more wins and fewer innings that the other three would have had if they had a closer and/or a consistently used bullpen behind them during their careers.

No kidding....look at Gibson....less games than either Clemens and Maddux but more CG than both combined. But different time and strategy. Seeing Carlton side by side puts him out...but still impressive.

B.A.
10-23-03, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by Flashback
No kidding....look at Gibson....less games than either Clemens and Maddux but more CG than both combined. But different time and strategy. Seeing Carlton side by side puts him out...but still impressive. Yep, the use of the bullpen and closers over the last thirty years or so has definitely affected how one looks at the games great pitchers and compares them.

Carlton may not be the best of the bunch, but he still can lay claim to being the best lefty in God knows how many years.

LurkerDan
10-23-03, 10:02 AM
Originally posted by Jobronie
In defense of his ABILITY, it's pretty much a given that he tanked (on purpose) his last season or two in Boston just so he could get out....... I think you get this since you put "ability" in caps, but the fact that he tanked--if he did--surely counts against his status as the best.